What Do Other Expats Do That You Hate?

[isabelle17]

I'm not an expat (well...not yet anyway...) but I think it's ridiculous that pidgeon English a huge complaint....

My boyfriend doesn't speak excellent English...and sometimes its easier if I say things to him in a less complicated way. Also, I think its great if any person is trying to learn Thai, and I find it funny that some expats think that the foreigners who don't speak Thai well shouldn't speak it at all...speaking a language helps you learn it better...

I think a lot of this is jealousy. Everyone does annoying things that you don't like...that's life. I have a roommate right now for example, and sometimes she drives me crazy. But do I let it get to me and start being all jealous and take my frusteration out on her? No....I think they should make expats live with one another That'd made a lot of you go crazy! But personally, I think it'd be amusing to watch.... maybe make a tv show....

[EmptyMind]

It has to be the brain-dead creeps who think that when they speak Pidgin English, they are speaking Thai

Why would you assume that every Expat speaks English as their 1st Language ? Maybe some of them speak what you like to call 'Pidgin English' because they are communicating with the Thai person who understands a little English and the Expat speaks very little Thai AND/OR very little English !

Is it not worse that Expats come to a different County and are too lazy to learn Thai and then pick on people who are trying to learn to communicate with someone else ?

I have been here for a few years, I don't speak a word of Thai because I simply can't get my head around it, However I certainly don't expect any Thai person (when you look at the education system here or simply because they are Thai and speak Thai) to have any knowledge of English and I certainly wouldn't be so rude or pig headed to call anyone a "brain-dead creep" because of this fact.

I have no idea what your thoughts were when you created this post.

You also say "Even worse are the morons that speak Pidgin English to other foreigners", Dude ! Not everyone speaks English !

I just don't get what your problem is apart from the fact that you think that an Expat who can't speak perfect Thai is a fool or that anyone who can't speak English in Thailand, (We are in Thailand remember, Thai People Speak THAI) is either a brain-dead creep or a moron !

We are in Thailand, They speak Thai !

Edited May 29, 2008 by EmptyMind

[cognos]

Most expats I have met are pretty nice fellows,however it gets tiring to hear them brag about their sexual exploits with bar girls.I thought that guys stopped kissing and telling at about age 18.Also,some expats love to talk about all the various thai girlfriends they manage to juggle,yet out of the other side of their mouth they moan that they wish they could find one good one.Also,in Lotus sometimes I say hi to an expat and say,hows it going?Too often they complain that the bank machine line up is too long,or whatever.Come on guys,be postive and if you don't like your life style choices with regards to women,then do something about it.

[retirednavyman]

Arrogance.

Are you referring to Ulysses G's post ?

I admire people who can speak Thai. I am amazed at people who can read, write and speak fluently.

Personally, I have always had a problem learning languages and find Thai particularly difficult. My wife speaks very good English, so I can also be lazy about learning.

I have been through the phase of copying the pidgin English (it did seem to help at the time) but that passed after my wife spent time in the UK and her English improved.

I am at fault for not trying harder, but I don't despise others for their faults.

So, to answer the question - I do hate to listen to expats who have an exaggerated opinion of themselves.

Unfortunately it is usually the poor speakers of Thai that like to flaunt their ability in front of other westerners. If they could speak fluently it wouldn't be so bad. I think that as your Thai improves you no longer need to impress anybody else and it just becomes a means of communication. After all we stop trying to impress people that we can speak our mother tongue when we are about four years old. If Thais can speak a bit of English it is good manners to let them show-off a bit.

I always think that it makes their Thai girlfriends lose face when their western boyfriend feels the need to speak to them in Thai. Especially when that Thai is far worse than the English the average Thai can speak in primary school these days.

Good point, Garro. I was stationed (retired US Navy) in the Philippines (off and on for about 8 years) back when the military bases were still open. I started speaking the Tagalog language slowly, studying my Filipino-English dictionary on a daily basis and using the knowledge that I gleaned from my dictionary to communicate with the locals. Within a year or so, I became semi-fluent in a conversational level and within three years I became fluent, actually enough to be able to discuss any subject that came up, but when it came to writing and reading, I was always a little behind the spoken part of my knowledge. Anyway, the point i'm trying to make is that I flaunted my ability (which came with hard work) in front of my friends/shipmates and even strangers

because I could, and maybe that's arrogance/vanity on my part, but the Filipinos I spoke to really enjoyed conversing with me and I with them and I would never embarass someone or cause them to lose face, because that's not what I am about.

I was just an ambassador in uniform, learning different customs, cultures and languages and I enjoyed every minute of it.

Ciao

[Jandajoy]

I'm not an expat (well...not yet anyway...) but I think it's ridiculous that pidgeon English a huge complaint....

My boyfriend doesn't speak excellent English...and sometimes its easier if I say things to him in a less complicated way. Also, I think its great if any person is trying to learn Thai, and I find it funny that some expats think that the foreigners who don't speak Thai well shouldn't speak it at all...speaking a language helps you learn it better...

I think a lot of this is jealousy. Everyone does annoying things that you don't like...that's life. I have a roommate right now for example, and sometimes she drives me crazy. But do I let it get to me and start being all jealous and take my frusteration out on her? No....I think they should make expats live with one another That'd made a lot of you go crazy! But personally, I think it'd be amusing to watch.... maybe make a tv show....

Great... The modern worlds answer to everything. "Make it into a TV show" Your vacuous statements epitimise the problem we're discussing.

The whole point is that the arrogance and ego of a selected few dominate the actions and intercourse of the many through manipulation and propogation of blame and guilt.

I'm intrigues to know where you're from and what you mean by "I'm not an expat yet"

I'm assuming you're a student, in Europe, eastern europe, who has a plan to move out. More details please.

[burman]

I think that what tends to get my goat is when a farang assumes that just because you both happen to be foreigners, you're automatically going to hit-it-off, a sort-of "Thank goodness; you're the first friendly face I've seen all day" and then proceed to tell you their life-story and generally run the place down. I had the great misfortune to be sat next to one of these knob-jockeys on my last flight back from England. Still gives me nightmares...

On the spot.

Absolutely. I live in a remote village that we deliberately picked as there were no other Falang. But, guess what, there is one. Some Swiss bloke who pitches up for a week every year. The trouble is that all the villagers, bless em, assume that 'cos he's Falang I/we'll want to meet. Cue very embarrassing 15 minutes as we stood outside my place wondering what the heck to say to each other. I offered beer, tea, coffee but to no avail.

Could you really not find something to say to another European in a remote village in Thailand? Seems you both have a social ineptness.

Or was you trying to make a point to the villagers 'bless em' that farangs are ot so alike (especially not a village expat and a tourist!), they can't even find a word to say to each other. The Thais must have thought you was both mad.

Edited May 29, 2008 by burman

[Spee]

Actually, this thread is pretty disturbing considering the number of worldly expats reading and responding.

For people who claim to have been around the block a few times, and are experienced world travelers, some here seem to have pretty thin skin and a pretty low degree of tolerance.

If there are two many upsetting people in one's general vicinity, then maybe one needs to find a new general vicinity.

Personally, I can deal with any sort of loutish behaviour pretty easily in any number of ways, the easiest of which by far is to get up and leave.

Life's too short to spend it whinging or looking for new ways to be intolerant. Unlike the leopard, we all have the ability to change our spots.

[kiakaha]

Outside of my work circle i rarely meet "proper expats" ie: live/work here full time, immigration situation 100% sorted and legal, finances ok, fully emigrated etc.... i frequently encounter loser middle aged wastrels who are "tourists" and always have a story to tell and wanna be your friend..and i got to tell you, i have perfected the art of deflecting their conversation attempts into the void of nothingness

[sriracha john]

What Do Other Expats Do That You Hate?

Attempt to over-analyze the behavior of ex-pats in an over-generalized manner.

[maccaroni man]

when expats go native and do business with no regard for western business ethics.

[Kel]

Quote

He then gives me his businesscard! WHY.

Fortunately I'd been given another card a couple of weeks earlier by anoher American in Chiang Rai so I gave him that, thanked him for his time and left

Unquote

Love it! Love It !

All the best

[isabelle17]

Great... The modern worlds answer to everything. "Make it into a TV show" Your vacuous statements epitimise the problem we're discussing.

The whole point is that the arrogance and ego of a selected few dominate the actions and intercourse of the many through manipulation and propogation of blame and guilt.

I'm intrigues to know where you're from and what you mean by "I'm not an expat yet"

I'm assuming you're a student, in Europe, eastern europe, who has a plan to move out. More details please.

Can't take a joke...I see....it's not like I meant the "start a tv show" thing to be serious...everybody would get tired of watching it after awhile anyway with all the bickering expats

I meant just what I said. I am not an expat yet. I would like to be in the future (probably far future)...which is why I decided to graduate school with a southeast asian studies major....and what makes you think I am from eastern europe.... I am from the America, by the way. But anyway, you really don't need to know anything about me...

Anyway, back on topic! I also find arrogance a really annoying trait in anyone-expat or not. I do kind of understand what some of the people talk about when they say that some expats think they are better than everyone else. I encountered that as well. I just ignored them though-not worth trying to get to know them anyway.

[lioness]

HATE is a strong word, probably better to say what ïs it that annoys you, or put more bluntly pisses you off.

Perhaps none Thais who think that because they now live in Thailand they know anything and everything there is to know about anything and everything.

Old falang men holding hands with young girls or even worse, young boys.

Falang that are always whinging, usually about everything Thai, why don't they go home?

Just a word about pidgeon English, while I was learning Thai and my husband English we had our own form of communication we called it Thaioz, I would speak the words in Thai if I knew them and he would speak the words in English if he knew them, we formed our own language that worked very well for us although noone else could work it out, we didn't care about anybody else understanding us as we were talking between ourselves, at least we could communicate. We have got past most of that now and can speak each others languages quite well. The hard thing is that most Thais don't have a full grasp of English and so you tend to stick with the more commonly used words in an effort to get some form of understanding, the same works in reverse for English speakers. There is also the problem of accents which puts a whole new twist on speaking a foreign language, sure you might know the words but can they understand them when spoken with an accent.

[Amyji]

(To put my comment into context, let me preface by saying I'm a farang woman)

The only thing that used to bother me about expats was that I'd be out in an area of Thailand where there were few farangs, or way out in the outskirts where westerners were a rare sight. When I'd see a westerner, I was completely ignored. I could be way off base, but isn't it polite for a nod of acknowledgement or eye contact? Any and all western women I encountered in such situations eye contact was made and we, at the very least, acknowledged one another. Sometimes we even smiled and said hello.

Yes, for some reason the westerners who treat each other as invisible bothered me, and part of it could be that the very sight of a western female was a cloud in their sunny day and preferred not to let it wreck their fantasy bubble.

[Naam]

What Do Other Expats Do That You Hate?

i hate all expats. no matter what they do or don't do

[garro]

isabelle17 said,

but I think it's ridiculous that pidgeon English a huge complaint....

My boyfriend doesn't speak excellent English...and sometimes its easier if I say things to him in a less complicated way.

In my view speaking to your boyfriend in broken/baby English only reinforces poor language performance. Once this poor means of communication is established it is hard to break.

Interestingly the development of pidgin English, and other pidgins, came about mostly through colonialism. The new masters refused to speak the local dialect and the natives were forced to do the best they could. With poor education it was usually far from perfect.

[isabelle17]

(To put my comment into context, let me preface by saying I'm a farang woman)

The only thing that used to bother me about expats was that I'd be out in an area of Thailand where there were few farangs, or way out in the outskirts where westerners were a rare sight. When I'd see a westerner, I was completely ignored. I could be way off base, but isn't it polite for a nod of acknowledgement or eye contact? Any and all western women I encountered in such situations eye contact was made and we, at the very least, acknowledged one another. Sometimes we even smiled and said hello.

Yes, for some reason the westerners who treat each other as invisible bothered me, and part of it could be that the very sight of a western female was a cloud in their sunny day and preferred not to let it wreck their fantasy bubble.

amyji, I know exactly what you mean. I was sitting down with this french man and his thai wife and adorable daughter with some of my other thai friends, having dinner, etc. He didnt give me any eye contact and avoided talking to me completely (he spoke very good English, so the language wasnt an issue.) I don't like it when people are rude to each other in general, and I think it's odd that expats (or non expats who are just tourists, etc,) go out of the way to avoid/not talk to anyone who is the same race, ethnicity as themselves. Are you talking about the western men specifically though? I've had some western women not acknowledge me as well...but I do find that western men go even more out of their way not to talk to western women...but that may just be because there are more expat western men in Thailand in general. The only time I ignore someone is when they act arrogant and just do everything for the attention, or when they are rude, etc.

isabelle17 said,

but I think it's ridiculous that pidgeon English a huge complaint....

My boyfriend doesn't speak excellent English...and sometimes its easier if I say things to him in a less complicated way.

In my view speaking to your boyfriend in broken/baby English only reinforces poor language performance. Once this poor means of communication is established it is hard to break.

Interestingly the development of pidgin English, and other pidgins, came about mostly through colonialism. The new masters refused to speak the local dialect and the natives were forced to do the best they could. With poor education it was usually far from perfect.

I didn't say I spoke to him in broken baby English...and his English has actually improved since we met. I just I try to make my sentences less complicated sometimes. After awhile I gradually speak to using more complicated sentences. But it's a gradual process. Some things I have to say in somewhat bad english because he just wont understand what I am trying to say otherwise. But I don't have to do that much anymore, as his english is much better now.

But I agree...it is important to try to speak to someone in good English...but if someone really doesn't understand what you are saying, and you cant say it in Thai, sometimes the only thing you can do is speak english that is not necessarily grammatically correct. Like with taxi drivers for example...I find they speak not very good English...so speaking pidgeon English to them is sometimes the only way they will understand me (But now since I am a little better at speaking Thai than I used to be, I can just use the thai language to talk to them instead.)

Edited May 30, 2008 by isabelle17

[Naam]

who or what exactly are pidgeons and why do they speak pidgin english?

[Ulysses G.]

It has to be the brain-dead creeps who think that when they speak Pidgin English, they are speaking Thai, so they go around leaving all the pronouns out and throwing in the two Thai words they know in every sentence and act all cool like they really know how to communicate here.

Even worse are the morons that speak Pidgin English to other foreigners. I have a really hard time not telling them what I think of them.

The other day, I heard a new one, this fellow was speaking with his girlfriend who spoke English very well, but when he answered her in English, he would imitate her Thai accent and all the mistakes that she made.

He wasn't doing it to make fun of her as he did it for 45 minutes straight. Somehow he thought that they were speaking Thai and he was a really cool guy!

Maybe they're just trying to communicate. Maybe they're not as clever as you obviously think you are and they have to resort to whatever communicative tactics they have at there dispossal. This, as we all know, can become a habit. But should it be denograted in such a way?

Your complaint is, essentially, that you occassionally come across people that don't speak Thai as well as you do. I'm sorry but you present yourself as an insufferable boor. Tolerance makes the world go round.

No offence meant and I hope none taken.

Actually, it is pretty widely known that it is just as easy to understand slow, clear, correctly spoken English as Pidgin English and speaking the language incorrectly makes it a lot harder for those you come in contact with to learn it correctly. If you talk to Thais like you are mentally challenged, you are in no way helping them - you are making it difficult for them to ever learn the language correctly.

The other thing is - and I agree that it wasn't obvious from the way I wrote the post - my main gripe is with foreigners who are native speakers of English who go around speaking Pidgin English to other native speakers of English - sometimes for years. I can think of few things that are so annoying and they usually seem to think that they are Jungle Jim rather than some newbie who has picked up a very stupid habit and sounds like an idiot.

As far all those caring, sensitive souls who attacked me, it is pretty easy to see who are going around speaking Pidgin English to all and sundry, and thinking they are really blending in with the real Thailand!

Edited May 30, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[MrIrrisistable]

Actually I really hate the obnoxious people who can speak thai very well, yet feel the need to criticise the people who are learning thai and need to practice it. Regardless of one word at a time or not.

Fortunately the people I know that speak thai very well are usually very understanding of this.

[Shotime]

I hate it when they think they can take my stool or sit near me when they're clearly aware that it is my stool, and my space,

I try to stare them down to indicate my displeasure but some just don't get it,

Lately it's gotten really bad, this one guy is actually waiting evryday now to take my stool and my personal buffer space,

The world must be coming to an end.

[kangeroo]

I dont like people when you ask them how they are, and they spend the next one hour telling you.

cheers

[jayjayjayjay]

Supprisingly I have a gripe that no-one else has! Maybe it's only me! I HATE it when a farang goes everywhere without his shirt on. Sporting shorts and a pair of flipflops (smelling too!) To think that every location in Thailand is a beach or just because it's 30 degrees (and 2 degrees at home) then they totally ignore any common sense as to whether it is polite or appropriate to go topless everywhere! 2 days ago I see a guy biying a motorbike for his gf (it was a sorry picture in the Yamaha dealership), restaurants in residential areas, temples, hospitals etc, I can't work it out!!

Edited May 30, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[Shotime]

who or what exactly are pidgeons and why do they speak pidgin english?

What would you expect an English pigeon (couldn't find pidgeon) to speak?

[toybits]

Missionaries.

Missionaries that tell me that the Lord Buddha is dead.

Missionaries that say they run a language school (yeah right!!!)

Missionaries that asked me whether I have read the Bible.

Missionaries that post Bright Caterpillar Yellow signs 20 feet high on electric posts or trees that say (in Thai) that Jesus is the Saviour, or some other Christian saying....

[mr_hippo]

What do other expats do that you hate?, What makes you sick? Nothing! I don't associate with any.

[onzestan]

isabelle17 said,

but I think it's ridiculous that pidgeon English a huge complaint....

My boyfriend doesn't speak excellent English...and sometimes its easier if I say things to him in a less complicated way.

In my view speaking to your boyfriend in broken/baby English only reinforces poor language performance. Once this poor means of communication is established it is hard to break.

Interestingly the development of pidgin English, and other pidgins, came about mostly through colonialism. The new masters refused to speak the local dialect and the natives were forced to do the best they could. With poor education it was usually far from perfect.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, insisting on correct language is arrogant and demeaning.

The goal should be communication and understanding each other.

onzestan

[popshirt]

Ironically the constant whinging

I may not speak Thai very well, but I did learn a new verb here in Thailand : TO WHINGE

never heard it before, but certainly have overdosed on it here......don't understand cultures that encourage complaining

I do try to avoid groups of farangs that are talking at high volume, especially in the BTS or MRT, seemingly oblivious of the quieter Thais surrounding them.

I guess that is my whinge for the day!

[Ulysses G.]

isabelle17 said,

but I think it's ridiculous that pidgeon English a huge complaint....

My boyfriend doesn't speak excellent English...and sometimes its easier if I say things to him in a less complicated way.

In my view speaking to your boyfriend in broken/baby English only reinforces poor language performance. Once this poor means of communication is established it is hard to break.

Interestingly the development of pidgin English, and other pidgins, came about mostly through colonialism. The new masters refused to speak the local dialect and the natives were forced to do the best they could. With poor education it was usually far from perfect.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, insisting on correct language is arrogant and demeaning.

The goal should be communication and understanding each other.

onzestan

It is a lot easier to understand someone who speaks a language well, and learners will never learn to speak well, unless they have heard the language spoken correctly on a regular basis.

Edited May 30, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Dustoff]

...yes it is annoying when some people pass judgment as you say. But more annoying is when these same creeps pass their arrogant judgements from a distance and post their opinons on TV. They see you or hear something you say and make a snap decision about your charactor and mental state. Total arrogance.

I have gone about as far as I want to go in this thread but wanted to say that I appreciate your post.

These folks could use a roll down a grassy hill or something, yes? Play in the mud, go for a walk, take a pill..

How sad would it be to come to such a wonderful place only to focus on arrogant views of the behavior of others?

I am responsible only for myself - not my job to judge/change others - and if I find someone annoying, I have my President go blow up their country...