Feed The Kitties

[Flatouthruthefog]

Thank you Calico for a great article on feeding the kitties in the Chiang Mai Mail!

Back to dogs, if I may, for a mo.

Can someone, ideally a Thai or Thai speaker, take a look at a dog (very easily found and seen) which concerns me?

If you go just 20m down the road to the Chiang Mai Gate Hotel, with CM Gate itself behind you, the first dirt-surface soi on your right contains a small dog cage facing the road. Its occupant is a (basically good looking) black and white dog with some dalmation blood, I guess. It is there almost all the time but taken out for a walk by 2 young boys late afternoons. It is, er, slim, but I'll leave it to experts to say if it's undernourished. Until only 2 days ago it was Very dirty but now seems to have been given a wash.

What causes me to write is that recently one of the wooden floorboards of the cage has broken and been only crudely repaired, also twice recently I have seen the dog tied up outside the cage, once in a tiny patch of shadow and once in light rain. This seems to me like neglect at very least.

I think the owner(s) run the first shop in the block against which the cage is placed. I'm not qualified to judge this, but it's certainly a dog's life. Will someone in the know take a look please?

[Ulysses G.]

I think the owner(s) run the first shop in the block against which the cage is placed. I'm not qualified to judge this, but it's certainly a dog's life. Will someone in the know take a look please?

Can anything be done to help animals like this? Is there such a thing as animal neglect in Thailand?

[Calico]

You guys watched me write the article's rough draft right here in this thread. An author in the grips of the Muse is a scary thing. I haven't read what's in the paper. I never read what's under my name because the editing only makes me angry.

Worried about that doggie. My first thought was the very obvious. Ally reads this thread. And sure, we can sit back and let her do it all by herself, but really, what's stopping me from swinging by that cage with a few tins or bags of dog food? It's a start, right? Regarding the dog's living conditions, I suspect the fact that I *still* haven't learned to speak Thai would make me frustrate myself. Hey, I'm still frustrated that I can't ask for chopsticks in Thai.

[Ulysses G.]

I have the feeling that a little attention would be as appreciated as the food.

[Calico]

...and we can all give the dog some attention. I'll let you know if he barks at bicycles.

[Calico]

I couldn't find any dirt sois anywhere near Chiang Mai Gate Hotel, so I noticed 20 dogs at the wat across the road and gave them a big bag of dry dog food. And for the record, they don't like bicycles.

Anyway, 10 farangs suddenly dropping by could cause someone to lose face, which could be bad for the dog. Presumably that's why FlatOut suggested one person, preferably Thai or at least Thai speaking. This could just be poverty, given the eventual bath and the daily walks etc. Since my effort to anonymously donate some food failed, I pass the torch onto someone else. Keep us posted.

Oh, and I learned today that my little newspaper article reached some folks who have never heard of this thread. Yes!!

[Priceless]

Being vaccinated and having a new quilt to sleep on is SUCH a good feeling:

And a new collar and some good food makes it even better:

/ Priceless

[eek]

Hmm..looks like the first two cats have been hitting the CatNip..

-------

Great to see that article in CM Mail Calico.

[Calico]

You may know my question, Priceless. Can I add those to http://www.chinarice.org/cats-wat-pa-pao.html ?

[Priceless]

You may know my question, Priceless. Can I add those to http://www.chinarice.org/cats-wat-pa-pao.html ?

Of course! Consider any picture that I post on a public forum as my gift to the world

/ Priceless

[Ulysses G.]

I LOVE those pictures!

[Calico]

Thanks for not putting a price on them. (...groan...)

[Flatouthruthefog]

I couldn't find any dirt sois anywhere near Chiang Mai Gate Hotel, so I noticed 20 dogs at the wat across the road and gave them a big bag of dry dog food. And for the record, they don't like bicycles.

Anyway, 10 farangs suddenly dropping by could cause someone to lose face, which could be bad for the dog. Presumably that's why FlatOut suggested one person, preferably Thai or at least Thai speaking. This could just be poverty, given the eventual bath and the daily walks etc. Since my effort to anonymously donate some food failed, I pass the torch onto someone else. Keep us posted.

Oh, and I learned today that my little newspaper article reached some folks who have never heard of this thread. Yes!!

Lines 4 and 5 of my post give Very clear directions. It's the first soi on the right down that road. Nowhere near the Hotel or any temple.

Can a Thai speaker, with or without torch - please - take a look? I may be crying "wolf" but I don't think so.

[Daffietje]

I already adopted 5 kitties from the Wat. They are very lovely and nice cats!! I will bring some dry cat food to the Wat one of these days. The only thing I'm concerned about is to come home with more kitties!!!!

Hope some more people will help the animals!!!

[Nienke]

I'm wondering about the the collars.

1. If the collar is properly fit around the neck and there is no elastic in the collar, the danger exists that when a cat gets stuck behind the collar it can strangle itself.

2. The bell. All those cats are strays that have been fed on and off by Khun Dee and maybe sometimes other people. Meaning that most probably most of the cats have been hunting in order to fulfill their nutritional needs. The bell attached to their collars, will make he hunt very difficult for them if not impossible. Currently many people are helping out the cats at this temple. However, experience has taught that after a while people loose interest. And then, what happens? Will there still be enough food for all the cats? If not, how to they fulfill their nutritional needs with that bl**** bell around their necks?

Another thing, the cat food that is brought in in bulk is primarily cheap cat food (reading from this thread). Cheap cat (or dog) food does NOT contain all the goodies the animal needs, despite that written on the bag it says it is nutritional balanced and complete blah-blah-blah. It is very possible that the food contains the said proteins, vitamins, minerals, etc., but more too often it isn't or hardly is bio-available to the animal, resulting in nutritional lacks on the long term. For example, on the bag it says crude proteins, this can include proteins from soya, maize, tissue material, feathers, beaks, nails, hair etc. However, the bio-availability of these proteins aren't very high. When a cat then still can hunt it can kind-of fulfill these lacks. But then, there's that bl**** bell again.

I plea for taking those bells off the collars.

Nienke

[Ulysses G.]

I'm wondering about the the collars.

I plea for taking those bells off the collars.

I very much agree with this. It is not a good idea to curtail their instinct to hunt as some owners will want them to hunt mice. Our first cat was very healthy when we found him because he was such a good hunter and we want these cats to be as healthy and happy as possible.

The collars might give them some protection as it shows that thay belong somewhere, but it shouldn't be too difficult to remove the *^$%#@#! bells.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Priceless]

I'm wondering about the the collars.

I plea for taking those bells off the collars.

I very much agree with this. It is not a good idea to curtail their instinct to hunt as some owners will want them to hunt mice. Our first cat was very healthy when we found him because he was such a good hunter and we want these cats to be as healthy and happy as possible.

The collars might give them some protection as it shows that thay belong somewhere, but it shouldn't be too difficult to remove the *^$%#@#! bells.

I quite agree, though the only ones that I've seen with bells on their collars are the youngest kittens. These are hardly old enough to hunt yet.

/ Priceless

[Nienke]

Ok, but with that stupid bell around their necks they won't be able to learn how to hunt, which will make them totally dependent on what humans provide them for the rest of their lives. Not a very comforting feeling, methinks.

Sorry, if I sound a bit harsh. It is certainly not meant as criticism. You are all doing a great job with loads of passion. I'm just imagening how it is to have a dingle-dingle around my neck, that gives sound whenever I move. Yikes!

Nienke

[Ulysses G.]

We welcome your expert advice!

[sylviex]

See users.bigpond.com/berrime/collbell.htm for an interesting item on cats, bells and collars.

There's no doubt cats can seriously ravage native bird and other small mammal populations.Even well-fed cats will hunt; even well-fed belled cats. Resposible cat owners do what they can to address this problem (e.g. keep cats indoors, build outdoor enclosures ...).

The real solution to the issue here probably lies most of all in reducing cat numbers, which brings us back to sterilization.

Edited June 29, 2008 by sylviex

[Ulysses G.]

We had a cat that was excellent hunter - I think that is how he lived after his owners left him on his own - but he could hardly ever catch a bird. Our other cats have never caught even one bird, but they catch mice fairly regularly.

[eek]

Interesting article sylviex. In the past I had always bought collars with bells on for my cats, believing they helped birds have better defense against being caught. I realised that for feral cats, or any cat that relys upon catching food, having a bell is not a good idea, but i had previously thought it was a good idea for domestic cats.

Now i am left a bit flummoxed about something regarding the food. I have been buying large cheap bags of cat food recently, but, as Nienke has mentioned this may not be nutritious. Is this food really empty food for them? Devoid of nutrition? Nienke, you mention also that they can supplement the lack of vitamins by hunting, but I once read that many rodents, etc, contain bacteria or other harmful 'things' that could be detrimental to cats health. I think it is great that the cats probably keep the rat population at the Wat down..and im sure it is natural for the cats to do so..but what is actually best for them health-wise?

Edited June 29, 2008 by eek

[Ulysses G.]

Now i am left a bit flummoxed about something regarding the food. I have been buying large cheap bags of cat food recently, but, as Nienke has mentioned this may not be nutritious. Is this food really empty food for them? Devoid of nutrition?

My staff like to go visit the cats fairly regularly and we always buy fresh fish (Pla Tuew) first. The Kitties LOVE it like a human craves candy, but it is super-nutritious and not that expensive. Between that and the food that the cats hunt for, hopefully they are getting the nutrients they need.

I think that is better to ask people to bring cheap food which would meet most of their basic needs and if someone wants to spring for something more expensive sometimes, it would be a big treat.

[sylviex]

I think with occasional supplements of fresh or tinned poultry/fish the wat cats will be just fine.

Let's not forget there are many, many more cats out there.

On the topic of hunting :

Cats share with mankind the dubious distinction of killing for fun. Cats hunt by instinct. In Australia, cats are known to feed on more than 347 native species: that's 186 species of birds, 64 mammals, 86 reptiles, at least 10 amphibians and numerous invertebrates. We know that feral cats are a problem but there is little point in targeting feral cats and leaving domestic cats uncontrolled. A domestic cat will hunt and kill no matter how well fed it is. One study estimated that on average each pet cat kills 32 vertebrates each year. It is estimated that there are 3-million pet cats in Australia. This adds up to a total of 96-million birds, mammals and reptiles killed each year by domestic cats alone.

I know people, people who would call themselves 'animal lovers' who put a bell around their cat's neck and think that they've done all they can for the birds. These bells rarely work. It seems to me that in fact they have a negative impact because they allow the cats' owners to think that they are doing something positive, that they have addressed the issue and it's no longer a problem.

(from abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/stories/s64308.htm)

Seem to be many well-informed websites on the topic; a fascinating one if you have time to browse. Owners who allow their cats to roam should read about ways of preventing their cats from destroying local fauna.

Edited June 30, 2008 by sylviex

[Ulysses G.]

Thanks to Vibe for his donation to help the Kitties!

[Calico]

Way to go Vibe!

Regarding the food, I've been hooking them up with Me-O because it fits in my bicycle basket so perfectly. I don't know about the other food, but I do know the cats' coats say they're getting the good stuff. I'd rather crunch on any old dry cat food than rice with fish heads, but I think they're eating a step above the "cat junk food" type of dry food. Oh, and the kittens play with fish bones anyway, but that's just fun.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Calico

[eek]

I definitely have to say, if you had seen them about 8 months ago, you would see there is a significant difference in their health. Its great to see them so well.

Here is a pic of some kittens from eight months ago:

Now, no more nasty eye infections, coughing and scratching. So far, so good.

Edit: Great stuff VIBE!

Edited June 30, 2008 by eek

[Priceless]

There is a financial aspect to the food question as well. "Good" cat food, e.g. Royal Canin, costs about 880 baht for a 4 kilo bag, i.e. 220 baht/kilo. Since the cats eat between 1-1½ kilo/day, that would be 300 baht/day, i.e. 9,000 baht per month. I cannot see any hope that we would be able to raise that kind of money in the foreseeable future. In other words, the choice is not between "not good" or "good" cat food, it is between food every day or food one week per month, with just rice and fish heads the rest of the time. An easy choice in my mind

/ Priceless

[Ulysses G.]

I don't think that we should become too obsessed about the "quality" of the food. I have often heard that dry food is better than canned, anyway, and they are getting different foods from a number of sources. I rather feed more cats with "mediocre" food than turn just a few into galloping gourmets!

[Nienke]

Yeh, you are unfortunately very right Priceless.

And again it all comes back to sterilization. Through sterilization at least the population won't increase .... hhhmmm provided that the news won't spread and people think Wat Pa Pao is a heaven for dumping cats.

Eek in one of the books I've promised you there's a whole chapter on the diet and it goes in on the subject of commercial cat food as well. It takes a bit longer than expected before it reaches you. Hopefully this week. Solly!

Nienke