Survey reveals growing American distrust in vaccines for COVID, other infectious diseases

[sylviex]

Good idea, but won't he have to say, "yes" ?

Why can cats only live at Wat Pa Pao, though ?

[Calico]

Fiscalist, I apologize for confusing you with Foggy Mountain Breakdown, who seems to think I'm geographically challenged even though I never get lost more than once per day. Well, almost never.

[Ulysses G.]

Good idea, but won't he have to say, "yes" ?

Why can cats only live at Wat Pa Pao, though ?

Hopefully, being Thai, he will give us good advice. Maybe it is better to keep a lower profile?

There are always dogs at Wat Pa Pao when I visit.

[sylviex]

Hopefully, being Thai, he will give us good advice. Maybe it is better to keep a lower profile?

Yes, for sure, I think ... but word can quietly spread. An article on Khun Dee by a Thai will, by definiton, not be abrasive.

Edited July 9, 2008 by sylviex

[sylviex]

Why can cats only live at Wat Pa Pao, though ?

There are always dogs at Wat Pa Pao when I visit.

Just realised my question was ambiguous. I meant, why can't we help "homeless" cats who live in other wats/spots, thus taking pressure off Khun Dee and Wat Pa Pao.

Edited July 10, 2008 by sylviex

[Ulysses G.]

So far, we are collecting just about exactly what we need for the animals at Wat Pa Pao to eat and be vaccinated and fixed with a little extra for possible Vet fees if any animals get sick. If we start to collect a lot of extra funds, we can start thinking about how we can help more animals most efficiently.

[sylviex]

So far, we are collecting just about exactly what we need for the animals at Wat Pa Pao to eat and be vaccinated and fixed with a little extra for possible Vet fees if any animals get sick. If we start to collect a lot of extra funds, we can start thinking about how we can help more animals most efficiently.

Catch 22 : to collect those extra funds, we need to reach a wider audience, right ?

We need to ask Khun Dee if he is ready and willing for a much bigger work load before publicizing The Wat too widely.

On reflection, a better question might be " What is the upper limit of the number of cats you can take care of ?". The wat could have information posted in Thai stating this limit. Also, for now, cats cannot be dropped off anonymously. They must be brought to Khun Dee, in person and in feline, as deterrent to those hoping to escape resonsibility. A small fee (100 baht ?) might also be required by Khun Dee for taking over care of the cat. It could go towards a small "salary" for him, paid by the wat (?), or go into the cats' bank account.

[eek]

SyIvie, wouIdnt there be a probIem enforcing that? I reaIIy dont know for sure, but isnt it the nature of Wats to take in anything? If cats are just dropped off into the area/Wat, in a box or whatever, there reaIIy is nothing anyone can do accept accept them, right? Of course, doesnt mean those requests shouIdnt be asked, or a notice put outside the Wat or something.

I think, as you suggested before, a discussion with Khun Dee about these thoughts/ideas is needed. If ok with aII when I get back from Bkk I wiII go see him to ask(with the idea that i wiII hopfuIIy persuade my guy to come aIong to transIate to make sure the detaiIs are covered. Poor guy didnt know what he was getting into when he met me. )

If anyone has anything eIse we shouId put to him/ask or other possibIe concerning scenarios, pIs put down for discussion. I think it reaIIy is heIping to work out how best to go about it aII.

[Ulysses G.]

SyIvie, wouIdnt there be a probIem enforcing that? I reaIIy dont know for sure, but isnt it the nature of Wats to take in anything? If cats are just dropped off into the area/Wat, in a box or whatever, there reaIIy is nothing anyone can do accept accept them, right?

This sounds correct to me.

I think that it might be a good idea if my employee, who is controlling the donated funds, be included in the talk with Khun Dee. She is most sensible and will understand our worries and hopefully will be able to explain them to him as well as find out his feelings.

She has seen how well known Gecko Books has become, and will realize how famous the Cat Sanctuary might become if we put our collective brains towards it. Khun Dee, probably has no idea.

[sylviex]

SyIvie, wouIdnt there be a probIem enforcing that? I reaIIy dont know for sure, but isnt it the nature of Wats to take in anything? If cats are just dropped off into the area/Wat, in a box or whatever, there reaIIy is nothing anyone can do accept accept them, right?

No, of course there's no way to enforce a limit, ultimately. However, I would think the Abbot would be able to put out some quite powerful deterrent messages if he chose to. A minority might disobey, but going against the explicit directions of the abbot would seem a distinctly merit un-making activity. Also, why are not all the wats already aswarm with rejected pets ? I think there may already be some limiting/deterring factors we are unaware of. If we outsiders know about these cats, the Thais surely must. Anyway, it is clear that a talk with Khun Dee is what's needed at this point. (Take him a basket of fruit or something, from the kitty funds ?).

BTW, do we have any idea if Khun Dee connects much with others at the wat ? Does he live there ? Just wondering how much influence he might have. Do we know if the abbot supports his work/takes any interest in it ? Something to try to suss out a little when you talk ...

[eek]

Interesting syIvie, tnx, because i dont know how the Wat 'system' works with animaIs being Ieft. As agreed, a taIk with Khun Dee shouId make things cIearer.

As for the second part of your post.. Khun Dee works as a driver for the Monks as and when needed. Other times he works for himseIf..tours etc. He has his own home outside of the Wat some distance away, but he spends his free time at the Wat Iooking after the cats, because he is a good man with a Iove of cats.

[Priceless]

Interesting syIvie, tnx, because i dont know how the Wat 'system' works with animaIs being Ieft. As agreed, a taIk with Khun Dee shouId make things cIearer.

As for the second part of your post.. Khun Dee works as a driver for the Monks as and when needed. Other times he works for himseIf..tours etc. He has his own home outside of the Wat some distance away, but he spends his free time at the Wat Iooking after the cats, because he is a good man with a Iove of cats.

Yes, definitely so. He's told me: "the cats are my children" This is also obvious when you see him with the cats. When you just meet the cats, it is clear that they are used to getting a lot of love and affection.

/ Priceless

[sylviex]

When you just meet the cats, it is clear that they are used to getting a lot of love and affection.

And despite the adverse press cats sometimes receive, we know what an enormous amount of love and affection they can give back .

Edited July 11, 2008 by sylviex

[Ulysses G.]

Whenever they happen to be in the mood!

[sylviex]

Whenever they happen to be in the mood!

We humble, bumbling humans are grateful for any attention bestowed on us from the highest of life forms .

Edited July 11, 2008 by sylviex

[Allyt]

Calico you just stay on ya bike!

The purpose of this post is not to inflame any previous or future readers or posters, other than to put Calico's mind at rest about his earlier failed sortie.

You were concerned enough by the post in this thread about a dog in a cage in a dirt soi, to actually go and have a look. Why you went? You were indirectly asked to go and "look".

This Dalmatian dog has been in & out of the cage over the last couple of years. He spends time, like he was yesterday, chained inside the shop ... to the shop door handle. Alternatively the dog is kept in a small squalid prison cell, with an umbrella over it, in the dirt soi beside the shop.

In case you need to "Look" at the dog yourself, here is a map.

Google Map

Ally

Fiscalist, I apologize for confusing you with Foggy Mountain Breakdown, who seems to think I'm geographically challenged even though I never get lost more than once per day. Well, almost never.

[eek]

This morning (around 11am or so), there were not very many cats about (although i didnt go hunting for them). Only saw three about and no other cats in their usual places, or in the caged area. Maybe they were off gallivanting somewhere? But anyway..Of the three cats, one looked like a mum who is or was a nursing mother as her nipples were enlarged but not engorged(see pic of b&w kitty below). But she didnt seem to be the mother of the little tabby cat (although im not sure). Im concerned about the wounds on the b&w cat, especially the one on her neck (right hand side). Looking for advice on what to do or reassurance that it will be ok. She didnt seem to be in any pain, but looks very sore. Bite from what? Cat fight? Dog fight?The kitten was very content looking, but a bit dirty. Should I (we?) clean up the kittens with some warm water and cotton wool? When the cats were sick way back, I cleaned up their eyes with warm water, but im not sure if I should just let them be because it is superficial dirtiness or if its a grooming problem. I would also like those who know more than me to take a look at the pic of the kittens bottom. I would like to know if this is normal looking and just dirtiness or what??

tnx.

p.s the pic of the kitten sprawled out is posted just because i think its a funny and cute pic.

Lastly, UG, do you want the girl at your shop to talk to Khun Dii alone or ?? Nienke has informed me that the issue we are aiming for will be in September, so no real hurry. But, would be nice to know who will discuss this with him so that the poor man doesnt get bamboozled

Edited July 13, 2008 by eek

[Nienke]

Hi eek,

If the wound behind the ear isn't infected (no pus or the like, you can clean it with luke warm water or saline (=better) and then put betadine or Banocin powder (=antibiotic powder) on it. With the powder the wound will be more dry, the betadine keeps it wet.

Also check inside the ear. It is possible the cat inflicted it to her/himself if s/he is suffering from an infected ear or earmites.

The wounds behind the shoulder can be treated with Betadine.

If the wound is a little infected you can first clean it with a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and saline (50-50), and after you put the betadine or Banocin.

Saline, Betadine and Banocin you can buy at any pharmacy. A little bottle (=10g) banocin is about 40 baht.

In case of big infection, better to bring the cat to the vet. (or the vet to the cat )

Are you sure the little kitten doesn't suffer form diarrhea? Can't see it well from the picture.

I've got the books ready for you.

Nienke

[Ulysses G.]

Lastly, UG, do you want the girl at your shop to talk to Khun Dii alone or ?? Nienke has informed me that the issue we are aiming for will be in September, so no real hurry. But, would be nice to know who will discuss this with him so that the poor man doesnt get bamboozled

My employee often (not always) understands what we farangs are trying to say and can communicate it perfectly to other Thais. I know that if I tried, Khun Dee would only get maybe 80% of what I was trying to say. I think that this is important for him to help us decide about, because I'm not so sure that rushing into making the Cat Sanctuary really famous is the best thing for the cats. It is pretty much perfect at the moment, but what if we and Khun Dee become overwhelmed with new animals and he can't train them to get along as he has in the past and we can't afford to do anything but feed them?

I'm just not sure that more publicity with the Thai community is going to help and I'm afraid that it might end up hurting.

[Nienke]

Some nice articles on the 'common' Siamese cats:

http://www.chiangmai-mail.com/current/chiangmaifemail.shtml

http://www.visit-chiangmai.com/feature_art...ang_mai/cat.php

Nienke

[Ulysses G.]

I explained our dilema to my employeee and she very much feels that we should NOT get the Thai community involved - no newspaper articles.

She seems conviced that large numbers of Thai pet owners would dump their older and sick cats so that they can replace them with kittens later. This defeats our purpose. I am not against having her talk with Khun Dee about this, but she is usually right about such things.

[Bill97]

It is a fine program which is working well. No reason to risk it with unnecessary publicity. Keep a low profile.

[catmac]

I explained our dilema to my employeee and she very much feels that we should NOT get the Thai community involved - no newspaper articles.

She seems conviced that large numbers of Thai pet owners would dump their older and sick cats so that they can replace them with kittens later. This defeats our purpose. I am not against having her talk with Khun Dee about this, but she is usually right about such things.

I think she's right on this one, UG, the Wat would seem to be getting a steady stream of kitties as it is. I fear that too much publicity amongst the local Thais could just overwhelm us, better to keep a low profile and ensure that we can cope physically and financially with the number of cats that we have.

[eek]

Ok, then can we safely say we are decided to leave things as is for the time being (regarding publicity)?

_________

Tnx for your advice on the wounds Nienke. The wound doesnt seem to be infected and nothing i can see inside the ears.

For anyone visiting the Wat, I have left the saline, cotton wool, Betadine, and some wet hand wipes (for, if like me, you always get your hands covered in that yellow/copper yeuch liquid!) hooked onto the caged area where the food is kept (up the wooden steps). Please look out for the B&W kitty and clean with the saline then dab on with the betadine. She is usually hanging about and comes when you make calling sounds to the cats. I'll check on her everytime i go, but i dont go along everyday anymore (although I will probably pop by everyday until the wound looks a bit better). Ty.

I noticed that the big bags of food are locked up in that area, so that is good.

I also noticed a lot of the cats whiskers are broken off short. I had wondered about this before as had noticed some time back too. Why do you think so many whiskers are so stubby? I read a long time ago that they need their whiskers long to judge things like gaps they need to get through, so is it a problem for them?

[Ulysses G.]

The gentleman from Lanna Dog Rescue asked us to put off fixing the cats for another one more month. They were scheduled for just about now, but he forgot about the Buddhist holidays and he feels that this is not a good time due to all the worshipers visiting the Wat.

[eek]

Good plan, Spiderman.

[sylviex]

Any news ?

Has the meeting taken place yet ?

[Ulysses G.]

Lanna Dog rescue asked us to wait until August.

[sylviex]

Lanna Dog rescue asked us to wait until August.

I meant, about the meeting with Khun Dee.

[Ulysses G.]

I think that we have already decided to keep this low profile and not advertise it to the Thai community. Too many experts and Thais have told me that we may create a monster by giving irresponsible people a place to dump unwanted pets with no guilt.