American, B.s. M.ed, Experienced, Seeking Teaching Position In Thailand

[countrymanto]

Greetings:

I would appreciate some information about teaching in Thailand. I am an American and I am currently teaching in China. I have been teaching at an American University Branch Campus and I am now finishing the semester and looking at teaching in Thailand.

The University where I am teaching is an international school. We have students from 13 countries. This is my 5th year teaching here in China and I am seeking a change.

I have a B.S. degree in Marketing/Advertising and a M.Ed degree in college teaching (Post Secondary). I have taught EFL, Marketing and Management. I retired in 1995 with 20 years of corporate experience in Marketing and Management. I was born, raised and educated in the United States.

Several months ago I went on a vacation in Thailand and liked it very much. So I have decided to seek a teaching position there. I would like to start teaching this fall semester if possible. Consequently, I would like to ask for any information about schools where I might find a teaching position.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Wayne

[DragonQuest]

www.ajarn.com

[garro]

You would think that you would be snapped up easily. The only concern would be age. If you are getting near sixty it could be a problem from what I hear. Others might better advise you.

[DragonQuest]

He will be snapped up easliy because I know and seen many old farts teaching in thailand.

[garro]

He will be snapped up easliy because I know and seen many old farts teaching in thailand.

My school turned down two very qualified teachers this week because they were the wrong side of fifty.

[DragonQuest]

Yes there will always be schools that prefer younger teachers, or older only. Some schools also discriminate agaisnt skin color, gender, nationality and race too.

Edited May 30, 2008 by DragonQuest

[mopenyang]

Greetings:

I would appreciate some information about teaching in Thailand. I am an American and I am currently teaching in China. I have been teaching at an American University Branch Campus and I am now finishing the semester and looking at teaching in Thailand.

The University where I am teaching is an international school. We have students from 13 countries. This is my 5th year teaching here in China and I am seeking a change.

I have a B.S. degree in Marketing/Advertising and a M.Ed degree in college teaching (Post Secondary). I have taught EFL, Marketing and Management. I retired in 1995 with 20 years of corporate experience in Marketing and Management. I was born, raised and educated in the United States.

Several months ago I went on a vacation in Thailand and liked it very much. So I have decided to seek a teaching position there. I would like to start teaching this fall semester if possible. Consequently, I would like to ask for any information about schools where I might find a teaching position.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Wayne

With your education and experience, you will have no problem finding a job that will match your expectations. PM me and I will be happy to help you with your questions and concerns. No, I am not a recruiter. I'm just a teacher who appreciates well educated and professional teachers entering the market here. Good luck!

[Prakanong]

Greetings:

I would appreciate some information about teaching in Thailand. I am an American and I am currently teaching in China. I have been teaching at an American University Branch Campus and I am now finishing the semester and looking at teaching in Thailand.

The University where I am teaching is an international school. We have students from 13 countries. This is my 5th year teaching here in China and I am seeking a change.

I have a B.S. degree in Marketing/Advertising and a M.Ed degree in college teaching (Post Secondary). I have taught EFL, Marketing and Management. I retired in 1995 with 20 years of corporate experience in Marketing and Management. I was born, raised and educated in the United States.

Several months ago I went on a vacation in Thailand and liked it very much. So I have decided to seek a teaching position there. I would like to start teaching this fall semester if possible. Consequently, I would like to ask for any information about schools where I might find a teaching position.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Wayne

With your education and experience, you will have no problem finding a job that will match your expectations. PM me and I will be happy to help you with your questions and concerns. No, I am not a recruiter. I'm just a teacher who appreciates well educated and professional teachers entering the market here. Good luck!

That was a really nice reply among a lot of the cynicism on this board.

I am not a teacher but an expat IT manager in Singapore and you made me smile this morning - thanks and I mean it!

Good luck to the OP - I think you will be OK!

[garro]

Yes there will always be schools that prefer younger teachers, or older only. Some schools also discriminate agaisnt skin color, gender, nationality and race too.

It has nothing to do with the schools discrimination and more to do with the age of retirement. Schools find it difficult to get work permits for people over sixty. Of course the OP may not care if he is legal or not.

I am not saying this to annoy/irritate/dishearten the poster. I also apologise if this means I'm ageist, but I don't make the rules. I am just saying what I heard and what I have seen. I though the purpose of the forum was to provide honest information and not just make each other feel good. I wish the OP all the best anyway.

Of course, if the OP is nowhere near this age he can just ignore the whole thing.

Edited May 31, 2008 by garro

[mopenyang]

Yes there will always be schools that prefer younger teachers, or older only. Some schools also discriminate agaisnt skin color, gender, nationality and race too.

It has nothing to do with the schools discrimination and more to do with the age of retirement. Schools find it difficult to get work permits for people over sixty. Of course the OP may not care if he is legal or not.

I am not saying this to annoy/irritate/dishearten the poster. I also apologise if this means I'm ageist, but I don't make the rules. I am just saying what I heard and what I have seen. I though the purpose of the forum was to provide honest information and not just make each other feel good. I wish the OP all the best anyway.

Of course, if the OP is nowhere near this age he can just ignore the whole thing.

What "age of retirement?" What schools?

I work with a lecturer at a government uni that is over sixty and the uni seems to have no problem getting a work permit for him.

My impression is that when such a situation arises it is more often than not the case of a particular school arbitrarily deciding not to hire or retain an older teacher and invoking the mysterious "retirement age" clause or something equally nebulous to excuse what is really a misguided marketing decision.

While this may occur in some instances, to give the impression that a well educated and qualified older teacher here will be at at a serious disadvantage obtaining a legal teaching position (work permit, etc.) is just plain nonsense, though.

Edited May 31, 2008 by mopenyang

[garro]

I am just repeating what I have been told. My school is currently recruiting and the Thai teacher responsible for this claims the the labor department does not like to give work permits to teachers who are 60 or over. The term has already started and we are in need of a teacher so I doubt that is just a case of the schools image. I was told that it is not such a problem if the teacher is already in the system. It has more to do with those entering the system.

[garro]

I have found this other thread which deals with this subject;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=157912

It gives different opinions about the issue from valued moderators of the forum .

[mopenyang]

I am just repeating what I have been told. My school is currently recruiting and the Thai teacher responsible for this claims the the labor department does not like to give work permits to teachers who are 60 or over. The term has already started and we are in need of a teacher so I doubt that is just a case of the schools image. I was told that it is not such a problem if the teacher is already in the system. It has more to do with those entering the system.

Even if what you say is true, the Labour Ministry does issue work permits beyond age sixty. This is a fact.

Moreover, I know of no mandatory retirement age in Thailand with the exception of certain government officers.

From my personal experience, my sense of the situation is that a legal school that has a well qualified and experienced teacher will have little or no problem obtaining a work permit regardless of age.

The school has to be willing to try. Some do and they and their students benefit. Others sit on their hands and spend a lot of time complaining how hard it is to find good teachers.

And so it goes.

[garro]

I am just repeating what I have been told. My school is currently recruiting and the Thai teacher responsible for this claims the the labor department does not like to give work permits to teachers who are 60 or over. The term has already started and we are in need of a teacher so I doubt that is just a case of the schools image. I was told that it is not such a problem if the teacher is already in the system. It has more to do with those entering the system.

Even if what you say is true, the Labour Ministry does issue work permits beyond age sixty. This is a fact.

Moreover, I know of no mandatory retirement age in Thailand with the exception of certain government officers.

From my personal experience, my sense of the situation is that a legal school that has a well qualified and experienced teacher will have little or no problem obtaining a work permit regardless of age.

The school has to be willing to try. Some do and they and their students benefit. Others sit on their hands and spend a lot of time complaining how hard it is to find good teachers.

And so it goes.

I can only comment on my experience. I post in good faith, but of course the OP would be foolish to just listen to my view.

[otherstuff1957]

Thai Government schools currently have a mandatory retirement age of 60. This does not, of course, apply to foreign teachers who's status is more like that of a consultant or outside contractor. However, some school admins and some government officials don't really think that through and think that the same rules apply to foreign teachers as apply to Thai teachers.

There are also other factors that are against older teachers. Thais tend to have a stereotype of older people, especially Farangs, as being crabby, old fashioned, lacking in energy and more likely to be sick. The whole Pee-Nong thing is also a problem with older teachers. Thais have great respect for their elders. This means that younger Thais feel very uncomfortable supervising people who are older then they are. If the person hiring you is under 35, you probably shouldn't waste your time with an interview unless you are under 50!

In my experience, it is certainly possible for older Farangs to get jobs as teachers, but the older they are, the better their qualifications should be!

[Briggsy]

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

A teacher's licence from the Ministry of Education is required for the Labour Department to issue a work permit as a teacher. Teacher's licences are not issued for those over 60 (or 65 I can't remember.) Thus the Labour Department will only accept work permit applications for applicants over 60 in categories other than teaching. This could be educational consultant. In fact, that is what some schools do to get around this. Different conditions apply to the employer. The employer may not want to go down this route.

[mopenyang]

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

A teacher's licence from the Ministry of Education is required for the Labour Department to issue a work permit as a teacher. Teacher's licences are not issued for those over 60 (or 65 I can't remember.) Thus the Labour Department will only accept work permit applications for applicants over 60 in categories other than teaching. This could be educational consultant. In fact, that is what some schools do to get around this. Different conditions apply to the employer. The employer may not want to go down this route.

You are wrong when you write that "...the Labour Department will only accept work permit applications for applicants over 60 in categories other than teaching."

Uni lecturers are hired and issued work permits over age 60. This is an indisputable fact.

If a particular school doesn't want to move its butt to get a well qualified older teacher complete with a work permit, then kiss that one good-bye and move to one that will. They are not scarce.

Edited May 31, 2008 by mopenyang

[countrymanto]

Greetings:

I would appreciate some information about teaching in Thailand. I am an American and I am currently teaching in China. I have been teaching at an American University Branch Campus and I am now finishing the semester and looking at teaching in Thailand.

The University where I am teaching is an international school. We have students from 13 countries. This is my 5th year teaching here in China and I am seeking a change.

I have a B.S. degree in Marketing/Advertising and a M.Ed degree in college teaching (Post Secondary). I have taught EFL, Marketing and Management. I retired in 1995 with 20 years of corporate experience in Marketing and Management. I was born, raised and educated in the United States.

Several months ago I went on a vacation in Thailand and liked it very much. So I have decided to seek a teaching position there. I would like to start teaching this fall semester if possible. Consequently, I would like to ask for any information about schools where I might find a teaching position.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Wayne

With your education and experience, you will have no problem finding a job that will match your expectations. PM me and I will be happy to help you with your questions and concerns. No, I am not a recruiter. I'm just a teacher who appreciates well educated and professional teachers entering the market here. Good luck!

I appreciate you thoughtfulness to my request. I would like to have any information on colleges or universities where I might apply to teach this fall if that is possible. I was hoping to start teaching in September; however, I am not sure when the fall semester starts in Thailand. As you know from my post, I am retired. I decided in 2004 to come to China and teach, not for a career move but for my pleasure and desire to help in my own small way, improve the understanding between east and west.

I have really enjoyed teaching. I enjoy the students. And yes, I am aware that there are many who are lazy and unmotivated but I've found in every group of students that there are some who work hard and desire to get a good education. These are the students that keep me in Asia.

I prefer to teach in a university and if possible, I would like to teach EFL rather than marketing or management.

Any universities that you know of that might be looking for teachers I would appreciate it if you would let me know.

Thanks again for your consideration.

Regards,

Wayne

[PeaceBlondie]

I am not as qualified as the OP, who has a master's in education. But I was told by an agency in April or May they could not hire me because they (or the govt. school) cannot - CANNOT - get me a work permit in Chiang Mai. Mopenyang, your own statement in the thread that garro has referenced, gave an example of a qualified older teacher at your uni who was refused a work permit because he was too old (as well as an exception to that).

This issue is very doubtful. There is no doubt that the experiences reported by our own regular posters is true, but it is anecdotal, and contradictory. I answered every ad and rumor I heard about during the hiring season that just ended (but not to unis). I told them I was 65, and did not tell them I had a ponytail or a moderator's position. The only reply I got was from the guy who used bad grammar to say he could not get me a work permit. I cannot find the thread on ThaiVisa that I commented on after that, but I raised the question and understood from the visa/WP gurus here that I had a very slim chance of getting a WP.

Therefore, I do not recommend anybody over age 55 to come to Thailand to teach - unless the school promises them in writing, before they arrive, that they will get a work permit and hire them. EVERYBODY teaches illegally in Thailand, at least for the first few weeks, if not the first few years. The chances are so stacked against folks over 60 (and we can assume that an American who retired in 1995 is now over 60), that I have to tell them to stay away from Thailand.

///Added: Wayne, uni academic years here start this week.

Maybe I am mistaken, or maybe I just have poork handt coordinalioin.

[mopenyang]

I am not as qualified as the OP, who has a master's in education. But I was told by an agency in April or May they could not hire me because they (or the govt. school) cannot - CANNOT - get me a work permit in Chiang Mai. Mopenyang, your own statement in the thread that garro has referenced, gave an example of a qualified older teacher at your uni who was refused a work permit because he was too old (as well as an exception to that).

This issue is very doubtful. There is no doubt that the experiences reported by our own regular posters is true, but it is anecdotal, and contradictory. I answered every ad and rumor I heard about during the hiring season that just ended (but not to unis). I told them I was 65, and did not tell them I had a ponytail or a moderator's position. The only reply I got was from the guy who used bad grammar to say he could not get me a work permit. I cannot find the thread on ThaiVisa that I commented on after that, but I raised the question and understood from the visa/WP gurus here that I had a very slim chance of getting a WP.

Therefore, I do not recommend anybody over age 55 to come to Thailand to teach - unless the school promises them in writing, before they arrive, that they will get a work permit and hire them. EVERYBODY teaches illegally in Thailand, at least for the first few weeks, if not the first few years. The chances are so stacked against folks over 60 (and we can assume that an American who retired in 1995 is now over 60), that I have to tell them to stay away from Thailand.

///Added: Wayne, uni academic years here start this week.

Maybe I am mistaken, or maybe I just have poork handt coordinalioin.

Yes, the reason I wrote what I did in the earlier thread was to show there is no consistency when it comes to age and for every program that says they will not hire an older instructor there is another (sometimes even at the same university) that will. The idea there is a magic age at which you will no longer be hired is also out the window given my personal, firsthand experience. Also, as information, I know of a well qualified and experienced teacher here over age 60 who in the last month or so has turned down two teaching positions with work permits as he thinks he can do better regarding salary and benefits if he holds out a little longer.

In your particular case, PB, I believe your location may be more of a problem than your age. A change to a larger market like Bangkok may just work wonders when it comes to being legally employed regardless of one's age. As we all know, things have been known to be done differently from one location to another in these here parts.

While there may or may not be other reasons for not coming to Thailand to teach at the present time, I do not agree that a well qualified and experienced older teacher should be dissuaded by his or her age.

[Scott]

I will check with our admin person to see if over 65's can get work permits here in BKK. I know I have hired a 62 year old guy who was a first time applicant for a work permit in Thailand and he got a work permit.

[KhaoNiaw]

Try universities with international programmes. I don't think you'll find it difficult to get hired and may well be better paid for teaching Marketing and Management courses than EFL. International schools often have different semesters from the regular university course and may just have started on the summer session. If you start putting in applications now, you might get something lined up for the first semester.

[mopenyang]

Try universities with international programmes. I don't think you'll find it difficult to get hired and may well be better paid for teaching Marketing and Management courses than EFL. International schools often have different semesters from the regular university course and may just have started on the summer session. If you start putting in applications now, you might get something lined up for the first semester.

Excellent advice.

[Briggsy]

You are wrong when you write that "...the Labour Department will only accept work permit applications for applicants over 60 in categories other than teaching."

Uni lecturers are hired and issued work permits over age 60. This is an indisputable fact.

If a particular school doesn't want to move its butt to get a well qualified older teacher complete with a work permit, then kiss that one good-bye and move to one that will. They are not scarce.

Thank you for your comments.

Perhaps you misunderstood my comments. My key point refers to the category of employment under which the work permit is issued.

I too am aware of many foreign teachers over 60 working legally in Thailand. My impression was they held work permits in other categories. One of these categories is 'consultant'. This category has no age restrictions.

[mopenyang]

You are wrong when you write that "...the Labour Department will only accept work permit applications for applicants over 60 in categories other than teaching."

Uni lecturers are hired and issued work permits over age 60. This is an indisputable fact.

If a particular school doesn't want to move its butt to get a well qualified older teacher complete with a work permit, then kiss that one good-bye and move to one that will. They are not scarce.

Thank you for your comments.

Perhaps you misunderstood my comments. My key point refers to the category of employment under which the work permit is issued.

I too am aware of many foreign teachers over 60 working legally in Thailand. My impression was they held work permits in other categories. One of these categories is 'consultant'. This category has no age restrictions.

Are you saying that "lecturer" does not fall within the "teaching" category?

[toptuan]

The chances are so stacked against folks over 60 (and we can assume that an American who retired in 1995 is now over 60), that I have to tell them to stay away from Thailand.

Absolute rubbish. I meet older foreign teachers all the time, especially in Thailand's universities. Our own department includes 75% of foreigners over 60 and one got his work permit at 71 years of age, and no one (educators, labor dept, immigration, etc.) blinked an eye.

With some posters, it you call up their previous posts, you'll see a consistent pattern of discouraging ANYONE from coming to teach in Thailand.

Edited June 2, 2008 by toptuan

[PeaceBlondie]

The chances are so stacked against folks over 60 (and we can assume that an American who retired in 1995 is now over 60), that I have to tell them to stay away from Thailand.

Absolute rubbish. I meet older foreign teachers all the time, especially in Thailand's universities. Our own department includes 75% of foreigners over 60 and one got his work permit at 71 years of age, and no one (educators, labor dept, immigration, etc.) blinked an eye.

With some posters, it you call up their previous posts, you'll see a consistent pattern of discouraging ANYONE from coming to teach in Thailand.

Fine, I stand corrected about tertiary education in Thailand, for foreigners who have at least one post-baccalaureate degree, such as the OP. Dr. Matt did encourage me to apply at a university, although he gave me bad directions and I did not apply. Surely JRTexas (with at least one earned doctorate) just had sour grapes at the unis he taught at. Thai universities may be paragons of virtue, devoid of corruption, without the absurd rules and dictators that rule the lower schools. I hereby encourage tenured professors to come here after they retire.

[toptuan]

Surely JRTexas (with at least one earned doctorate) just had sour grapes at the unis he taught at.

Very intuitive observation. To flesh that out, JRTexas taught at my uni, and was a total paranoid, conspiracy-theorist flake who alienated students, teachers, administrators, Thais and farangs alike (god rest his transferred-to-BKK soul)...

Edited June 2, 2008 by toptuan

[garro]

The chances are so stacked against folks over 60 (and we can assume that an American who retired in 1995 is now over 60), that I have to tell them to stay away from Thailand.

Absolute rubbish. I meet older foreign teachers all the time, especially in Thailand's universities. Our own department includes 75% of foreigners over 60 and one got his work permit at 71 years of age, and no one (educators, labor dept, immigration, etc.) blinked an eye.

With some posters, it you call up their previous posts, you'll see a consistent pattern of discouraging ANYONE from coming to teach in Thailand.

I wonder why that would be then? Perhaps it might have something to do with the fact that people are reporting on how they find things on the ground.

I remember hearing how easy it was to get legal teaching work in Thailand when I first came here. I am sure the people meant well, but I wish they had been more realistic. It almost six years before I managed to achieve this and a lot of effort on my side.

I do discourage people from coming to Thailand if it looks like they are going to have a particulary hard time because it's people's lives we are talking about. Plenty of people make a hash of things here, and some of it probably could have been avoided with proper advice. Now while you may see this as 'a consistent pattern of discouraging anyone from coming to teach in Thailand' I see it as trying to give my honest opinion. Of course, my opinion isn't going to suit everyone, but as this is an open forum they can just choose to ignore it.

I mentioned the age thing to the OP because of what is happening in my school, and I have heard this type of thing before. It is not something new that I have invented, but something which has been reported on this and other forums in the past. I think that I would be doing the OP a disservice if I didn't at least mention this.

[mopenyang]

The chances are so stacked against folks over 60 (and we can assume that an American who retired in 1995 is now over 60), that I have to tell them to stay away from Thailand.

Absolute rubbish. I meet older foreign teachers all the time, especially in Thailand's universities. Our own department includes 75% of foreigners over 60 and one got his work permit at 71 years of age, and no one (educators, labor dept, immigration, etc.) blinked an eye.

With some posters, it you call up their previous posts, you'll see a consistent pattern of discouraging ANYONE from coming to teach in Thailand.

I hereby encourage tenured professors to come here after they retire.

Yes, we need many more.

Truth be told, though, many already have and are very happy with their decision.

Very happy.