Custody Of Daughter - Thai Lawyers?

[PPG]

Hi All,

I'm from the UK and have been here for 10 years and have a daughter almost 6 years old. I have had a mostly good relationship with her Thai mother since we separated (never married) when my daughter was 3. Because I've had a fairly workable relationship with her mother, I've never felt the pressure to gain any kind of legal custody to her. I realize this is stupid, as things could change at any time. Right now we 'share her'.. although recently her mum seems to be too busy with new potential partners to take full care of her.... anyhow...I digress.....

Really, I would like to know the process of gaining legal joint custody and any recommendations on a reasonably priced lawyer to help with this.

Thanks

PPG

[silentnine]

Hi All,

I'm from the UK and have been here for 10 years and have a daughter almost 6 years old. I have had a mostly good relationship with her Thai mother since we separated (never married) when my daughter was 3. Because I've had a fairly workable relationship with her mother, I've never felt the pressure to gain any kind of legal custody to her. I realize this is stupid, as things could change at any time. Right now we 'share her'.. although recently her mum seems to be too busy with new potential partners to take full care of her.... anyhow...I digress.....

Really, I would like to know the process of gaining legal joint custody and any recommendations on a reasonably priced lawyer to help with this.

Thanks

PPG

you need to consider what part of the UK you are from.

i assume your living in the UK.

the legal battle involved is very complicated and its not a matter of just gaining joining custody

do you have a english birth certificate for the child, are you named as the father on it ?

does the child have dual nationality thai/english ?

1st off you need to get Parental responsablily for the child, automatic if your named on the birth certificate.

do not confuse PR with rights to contact

then you are going to have to apply to the court for a contact order.

its not just as simple as saying you'd life joint custody.

i just had a 2 year battle in the high courts with my x-wife for full custody and permision to relocate from the UK to thailand, this would of cost over £20,000 !!! and this was with social serices steppign in and removing my son from her aas she was a fruitcake.

so even with super strong reasons its a dam_n hard fight.

i think the best you could hope for initialy is a contact order, you would apply for this on the ground you feel your possible future contact is threatend ..

the only time you are classed as automaticly having joint custosy is if you live together, are married , and are both on the birth certificate

if your in the midland i can recomend a good lawyer. but you do need someone near as you will have to see them quite a lot.

other than that you may wish to try a group such as familys need fathers who are a wealth of infromation, but do not get drawn in to some of there more radical thoughts ,, pick and choose waht you need to know.

good luck

[PPG]

Sorry - I should have said I've been based here in Thailand for 10 years, and still here now - in Bangkok.

I am named on the Birth Certificate

She does not have a UK Passport - that would be next - but she has been to the UK twice with me.

[torrenova]

Get a her a UK passport. Give the mother some crap about having to register the daughter for XYZ if she is suspicious as you will need her ID card or her passport. It can be done without as the embassy will attest to but far more difficult. Blind them with science or the hope of money.

[phuketrichard]

i am an american and went thru a lawyer to get a divorce. We were married in American. the Lawyer charged ONLY 50,000 baht. Went to family court here in Phuket and told my story . My ex did not show up so the court granted the divorce and FULL custody of my daughter.

Note to get your child a thai passport BOTH parents must be there untill she is 18 years old or you have the court order.

A US passport can be issued once the child is 14 with no parent needed.

If she does choose to fight the court and has money to pay for a lawyer it will be very difficult to get full custody as in most countries the mothers rights are higher than the fathers. UNLESS you can prove she is a unfit mother.

My suggestion is sit down and talk to her with a lawyer present and have the lawyer arrange Money. thats usaully all it comes down to and also explain that it is in the childs best interest to be educated in the UK. For her uk passport i assume you will need the mothers sig as well and if she doesn't give it you most likley will not have one issued until she is of age to get it herself.

[ThaiLawOnline]

The situation of PPG is quite different from you Richard. You were married and asked for a divorce. He has NEVER been married.

Under Thai laws, even if you are on the birth certificate as the father, if you are NOT married with the mother, you don't have any "parental powers". It means that the mother has full custody and decides about everything on the child. (section 1546 of the Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand - CCCT). There are ways to change that: The mother can sign a document at the amphur making you a "legitimate father". It's called legitimization. (1548 CCCT). A subsequent marriage after the birth can also legitimazed the child (1547) and of course, you can go to Court and ask full custody and legitimization but you will need serious arguments. (see clause 1555)

Best way would be that the mother signs this paper at the Amphur. Going to Court will take a long time, will requires lawyer's fee and will be difficult to win if the mother contest. It's always better to get an agreement...

You should read article 1536 of CCCT and following, especially 1546, 1548 and 1555. I will try to put them today on our website in the section INFO and FAMILY. Not sure if I will be able!!

Good luck.

[hedonist44]

What ever you decide to do, do it while the Mother is around. I made the mistake of not doing so and the Mother of my 8 year old Thai son was killed. He has an American passport as well as a Thai passport and I am on the birth certificate as well. I was told however that the Grandmother has legal rights over him now that the Mother is dead. I have him now and the family is not hassling me, but I have yet to take him out of country on my own. I am looking into it further.

[torrenova]

What ever you decide to do, do it while the Mother is around. I made the mistake of not doing so and the Mother of my 8 year old Thai son was killed. He has an American passport as well as a Thai passport and I am on the birth certificate as well. I was told however that the Grandmother has legal rights over him now that the Mother is dead. I have him now and the family is not hassling me, but I have yet to take him out of country on my own. I am looking into it further.

See various posts on dual passports. Basically leave on Thai showing US at check in to satisfy them that your child has the right of entry to the USA then enter the USA on the American passport. Repeat in reverse if you come back.

[philo]

The best of luck to the OP and everybody else with a child here.

My situation is:

Marriage sert., named father on birth sert., living with wife and daugther 1y4mths.

Daughter has Thai and European passport already.

Relationship with wife progressing from dead to sour to hateful...

Wanted sole custody, made a deal with wife, went to lawyer and got 2 documents: One stating that my wife has already conscented to that I can take the child abroad and deal with all passport and Visa questions- the other stating that I choose living place, schooling etc. and take care of the child's money (I have been so stupid to let two banks make accounts 'wife FOR daughter '- and my wife has started to use one account with ATMcard as if it were her's) until she is of legal age.

The lawyer wanted 12k for 2.5 pages - I got it for 8k. Expensive?

I didn't bother to get it translated into English - the price was 1000 Baht pr page - because I don't know the legal value of the two agreements. But I geuss it is not sole custody. To cut of parental rights of the mother you will have to get a court order?

Anyway, next step is to fax the agreements to one of the sponsors here. May be Isaanlawyers could read the 2.5 pages and tell me their worth. And how many cases of Beer Leo will I not be able to buy after I pay the bill?

Anyway - it is not the child's fault, so take it cha cha ....

[WilliamCave]

What ever you decide to do, do it while the Mother is around. I made the mistake of not doing so and the Mother of my 8 year old Thai son was killed. He has an American passport as well as a Thai passport and I am on the birth certificate as well. I was told however that the Grandmother has legal rights over him now that the Mother is dead. I have him now and the family is not hassling me, but I have yet to take him out of country on my own. I am looking into it further.

Were you married at the time,,because now if my wife died we have kids and assets to consider. And I was under the impression if the mother dies the father retains full custudy of the children as other countries, is this correct?

[sam6345]

The situation of PPG is quite different from you Richard. You were married and asked for a divorce. He has NEVER been married.

Under Thai laws, even if you are on the birth certificate as the father, if you are NOT married with the mother, you don't have any "parental powers". It means that the mother has full custody and decides about everything on the child. (section 1546 of the Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand - CCCT). There are ways to change that: The mother can sign a document at the amphur making you a "legitimate father". It's called legitimization. (1548 CCCT). A subsequent marriage after the birth can also legitimazed the child (1547) and of course, you can go to Court and ask full custody and legitimization but you will need serious arguments. (see clause 1555)

Best way would be that the mother signs this paper at the Amphur. Going to Court will take a long time, will requires lawyer's fee and will be difficult to win if the mother contest. It's always better to get an agreement...

You should read article 1536 of CCCT and following, especially 1546, 1548 and 1555. I will try to put them today on our website in the section INFO and FAMILY. Not sure if I will be able!!

Good luck.

I am in a similar situation. I took the advice being offered above and went with my newborn baby and girl friend (mother of my child) to the local amphur but they said no such provision existed. They said they would be able to legitimize me as the father only after the child turned 7 years old and was able to identify me as the father and sign a document stating me as the father.

I would appreciate some advice on how to proceed.

Thanks

[9ninetynine]

It seems this is a fairly common situation and it's similar to mine.

I just want to say I totally sympathize - this sitatuation has cost me jobs, friends, almost my sanity ...

I bought my wife a home here in Bangkok and there's a very small mortgage left to pay on it. I've discovered she is 'abusing' it - creating new debts based on her home as an asset, which of course she can do legally, since 'legally' it's her home despite her not paying a baht on it. Anyway, I digress, but this might be of importance from a legal perspective - I don't really know to be honest.

My wife took off with our two children last year (August 2007). I hope and pray she isn't hurting them, although I've seen a lot of cruelty in her family (her mum beats the dog with a stick etc etc)

What I have done is file regular police reports stating that they are 'missing' - at least as far as I'm concerned. I'm not paying the homeloan any more, so she's stopped all access (surprise, surprise ...)

It seems the school sympathizes but can't / won't do anything.

Anything remotely close to cooperation has come to a standstill ...

I'm technically just a "tourist" now despite having lived and worked here for a decade.

We're still legally married. The children have dual citizenship.

Is there nothing I can do?

[philo]

Tell the childrens mother that it would be good for them to have farang passports (as well as Thai) to open up future possibilities and then read this:

http://travel.state.gov/family/abduction/c...ountry_528.html

[PPG]

A friend of mine has recently gained custody of his kids with the permission of his x-mrs. Apparently it was a simple matter of going to the umphur here in Bangkok (Soi St. Louis) and filling out a couple of forms. Was all done in the same day. I'm planning on going next week and will let you know how it goes.

Cheers,

PPG

[ArranP]

The situation of PPG is quite different from you Richard. You were married and asked for a divorce. He has NEVER been married.

Under Thai laws, even if you are on the birth certificate as the father, if you are NOT married with the mother, you don't have any "parental powers". It means that the mother has full custody and decides about everything on the child. (section 1546 of the Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand - CCCT). There are ways to change that: The mother can sign a document at the amphur making you a "legitimate father". It's called legitimization. (1548 CCCT). A subsequent marriage after the birth can also legitimazed the child (1547) and of course, you can go to Court and ask full custody and legitimization but you will need serious arguments. (see clause 1555)

Best way would be that the mother signs this paper at the Amphur. Going to Court will take a long time, will requires lawyer's fee and will be difficult to win if the mother contest. It's always better to get an agreement...

You should read article 1536 of CCCT and following, especially 1546, 1548 and 1555. I will try to put them today on our website in the section INFO and FAMILY. Not sure if I will be able!!

Good luck.

If the father (British) and mother (Thai) were married in the UK prior to the baby being born in the UK, but never married in Thailand. Do the Thai authoritees recognise this as a marrige and therefore the father has equal custodial rights to the child when remaining in Thailand?

Edited December 29, 2008 by ArranP

[Mario2008]

A marriage abroad is recognised, also in the case of a Thai national marrying abroad. You cannot get maried in Thailand as you are already married. To make things easier your wife can have her marriage registered when you settle in Thailand. Not sure if she can do it now with the embassy in the UK, you can ask the Thai embassy or look at their website.

If you didn't do that already you can have the children registered at the Thai embassy as well and apply for a Thai passport for them. That is adviceble if you want to move or travel to Thailand with the family, as they then don't need a visa.