At Least 78 Die After Thailand Riot

[katyusha]

You're up very early sTROLL.

Did you have to take your trainees on a 20km run at 0500, or did you piss the bed ?

Do you think all of the 1300 arrested protesters and 86 dead were 'terrorists' who do not deserve to be transported in a way any live creature would deserve?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You and the other armchair generals on this forum seem to have the notion firmly implanted in your tiny minds that the 1300 arrestees were stacked 10 deep in the trucks for the express purpose of suffocating a few.

I suppose being so godlike and infallible yourself makes it hard for you to believe that the soldiers you regard as brainwashed zombie killing machines may have made mistakes and that those deaths were not the result of deliberate mistreatment.

[SoCal]

hi...

no only human rights for humans and none for those who murder the innocent..

do you respect terrorists ? people who plant bombs in public places and blow up innocent people ?

amarka

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have not answered my earlier question.

To put it a more directly:

Do you think all of the 1300 arrested protesters and 86 dead were 'terrorists' who do not deserve to be transported in a way any live creature would deserve?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stroll, I guess your parents never taught you to watch who you make freinds with.

It's senseless discussing with you on any level.

You're right. These poor stupid muslims were sheep at a slaughter.

[katyusha]

I for one would like to see responsibility taken on both sides, and honest talks held,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It won't happen.

The rioters will claim they had a right to throw rocks at police and soldiers and spit in their faces because they were infidel Buddhists, and they will never accept the fact that if they hadn't been rioting in the first place then none of them would have been arrested and none of them would have subsequently been suffocated under a pile of their fellow rioters.

The police and military will claim they had the right to defend themselves against attack by the rioters and the obligation to protect non-rioting civilians and their property. A few &lt;deleted&gt; might be kicked, but no heads will roll.

[guran]

I suppose being so godlike and infallible yourself makes it hard for you to believe that the soldiers you regard as brainwashed zombie killing machines may have made mistakes and that those deaths were not the result of deliberate mistreatment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is aiming a gun at a protestor and firing not deliberate misttreatment ?

[SoCal]

If 100 farang acted in a similar manner, and 4 died due to mistreatment of authorities you would wring your hands and say that the stupid farang got what they had comming. TIT.

For some reason Muslims get a pass to do whatever they ###### well want, and they must be given every protection under the law.

This is the problem, not only in Thailand, but throughout the Middle East.

Both sides must take accountability if you are ever to have peace.

If this forum is any indicator of the outside world, then I fear for the world indeed.

[SoCal]

I suppose being so godlike and infallible yourself makes it hard for you to believe that the soldiers you regard as brainwashed zombie killing machines may have made mistakes and that those deaths were not the result of deliberate mistreatment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is aiming a gun at a protestor and firing not deliberate misttreatment ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I missed the part about peaceful protesters.

The answer to your question, is if the police or soldier felt threatened by this mob, then they had every right to open fire.

There were 2,000 in the mob. How many police/soldier?

[guran]

If 100 farang acted in a similar manner, and 4 died due to mistreatment of authorities you would wring your hands and say that the stupid farang got what they had comming. TIT.

For some reason Muslims get a pass to do whatever they ###### well want, and they must be given every protection under the law.

This is the problem, not only in Thailand, but throughout the Middle East.

Both sides must take accountability if you are ever to have peace.

If this forum is any indicator of the outside world, then I fear for the world indeed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The same has happened in the west numerous times and always received condemnation due to the use of excessive force by police/army.

It is always the representatives of the state who are to blame in situations like these.

The protesting youths have not been trained in crowd control etc and are easily

manipulated by a few.

The police/army however have the training and experience of situations such as this and know how to prevent unwanton blodshed.

It is therefore that they are entirely to blame for the outcome of the demonstration.

[katyusha]

Is aiming a gun at a protestor and firing not deliberate misttreatment ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your pygmy nick matches your brain power.

[SoCal]

Thailand is not the west.

Are you that obtuse?

[guran]

Is aiming a gun at a protestor and firing not deliberate misttreatment ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your pygmy nick matches your brain power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Typical response , have seen it before from american soldiers in several countries.

It is a shame that the US army has such low recruitment standards.

[katyusha]

Are you that obtuse?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He Guran, pot-bellied chief of pygmy Bandar.

Not only obtuse, also obese.

[guran]

[

I missed the part about peaceful protesters.

The answer to your question, is if the police or soldier felt threatened by this mob, then they had every right to open fire.

There were 2,000 in the mob. How many police/soldier?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not sure about the strength of the police/army force.

But it was obviously large enough to take 1300 prisoners out of the total of 2000 protestors.

They can therefore not been in any imminent danger.

No members of the armed forces was shot , a mere 6 were injured if I remember correctly.

[guran]

Are you that obtuse?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He Guran, pot-bellied chief of pygmy Bandar.

Not only obtuse, also obese.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes , resorting to insults.

my guess was right. you are obviously of a lesser intellect.

[SoCal]

[

No members of the armed forces was shot , a mere 6 were injured if I remember correctly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try 14, and my bet is that if you want fair treatment from the Thai police/military, that number better be 0.

[guran]

Thailand is not the west.

Are you that obtuse?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

does that make it right to kill and torture people ?

just because they are &lt;deleted&gt; ?

The same basic standards of humanity applies throughout the world.

The member countries of the UN have signed the declaration of human rights.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

[guran]

[

No members of the armed forces was shot , a mere 6 were injured if I remember correctly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try 14, and my bet is that if you want fair treatment from the Thai police/military, that number better be 0.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think we are misunderstanding each other,NO I do not expect much more from the thai armed forces , but that does not prevent me from stating that what they did was wrong.

[stroll]

You're up very early sTROLL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good morning, Commandress Kalashnikov, finished playing WW3 on the playstation, and back to sorting out the scum which shows concern for human rights on the net, eh?

Yes, in Thailand if you are going to treat policemen and soldiers in such a manner, don't be surprised if you do not live another day. This is why I say they played a role that fateful day. Why this is so hard for you to grasp is beyond me.

I for one would like to see responsibility taken on both sides, and honest talks held, but you know what? If you and I cannot come to terms, then no way the Muslims and Thai govt ever will. 

No question why the world has so many problems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On reflection, for once you are right, I would not contemplete to take part in any such action and regard foreigners doing so with not much sympathy. However, I would object to them being mistreated and tortured to death nonetheless. Which morons would stake people in a truck this way and drive around in the tropical heat for hours without any thought for the conditions they are in? Even trained soldiers can't be such zombies, unless you believe our 'commandress' has any connection to the military.

Yes, the demonstrators were acting against the law and rules of the acceptable in this Asian country, and should have known they'd be mistreated and killed. Entirely their own responsibility for their unreasonable behavior. This could be argued.

However, can we agree to look at it from different perspectives as well?

[SoCal]

Thailand is not the west.

Are you that obtuse?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The same basic standards of humanity applies throughout the world.

The member countries of the UN have signed the declaration of human rights.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, now it's debatable if you are obtuse, or simply naive.

Same level of humanity throughout the world.

Travel much?

[guran]

Thailand is not the west.

Are you that obtuse?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The same basic standards of humanity applies throughout the world.

The member countries of the UN have signed the declaration of human rights.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, now it's debatable if you are obtuse, or simply naive.

Same level of humanity throughout the world.

Travel much?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I do.

Spent about 25 years abroad in different countries, about half of it in Asia.

No we do not have the same level of humanity throughout the world .

How do you propose that can be achieved ? By accepting the present situation ?

It's only by demanding that the same levels apply that developing nations will gradually raise their standards.

[SoCal]

Stroll, I am trying to look at it from both perspectives.

One must be fair to the police that they were facing an angry mob of 2,000, property was destroyed, and 14 officers injured before it was all over.

I can bet these guys were pissed, not to mention the past tension as well.

Whether stupid, or angry, these poor muslims should not have been treated this way, but it was not without cause. Just cause? No, but stick your hand in a bee hive, and don't bitch when you get bit.

Certainly, there should be a probe, and those police who mistreated should be punished, but the Muslims are not without fault, need not declare themselves martytrs, and need not flow rivers of blood.

Both sides must accept responsibility. For god sakes, this riot started because they wanted six terrorists released.

Cooler heads must pervail, or you will have your river of blood. Two rivers.

PS- thanks for telling me for once I was right. Between that and the Red Socks, I can die in peace.

[guran]

Stroll, I am trying to look at it from both perspectives.

One must be fair to the police that they were facing an angry mob of 2,000, property was destroyed, and 14 officers injured before it was all over.

I can bet these guys were pissed, not to mention the past tension as well.

Whether stupid, or angry, these poor muslims should not have been treated this way, but it was not without cause. Just cause? No, but stick your hand in a bee hive, and don't bitch when you get bit.

Certainly, there should be a probe, and those police who mistreated should be punished, but the Muslims are not without fault, need not declare themselves martytrs, and need not flow rivers of blood. 

Both sides must accept responsibility. For god sakes, this riot started because they wanted six terrorists released.

Cooler heads must pervail, or you will have your river of blood. Two rivers.

PS- thanks for telling me for once I was right. Between that and the Red Socks, I can die in peace. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Afraid it is to late to limit any further escalation.

The instigators of the protest probably got exactly what they hoped for and will doubtless now be recruiting in ever increasing numbers.

The only way to stop an escalation now appears to be an official apology from Thaksin and the armed forces along with prosecution of the commanding officers and initiation of a dialogue with the political leaders in Patani.

[stroll]

SoCal:

Now we seem to agree. I was not trying to justify riots nor terrorism, the focus in this thread is on the authorities doing the wrong thing. I realize Thai police and military do not have the same level of training as perhaps the American have, but I insist that the response is, although understandable to some degree, whether intentionally cruel or a combination of misjudgement and lack of resources, something which needs to be acknowledged as wrong and responsibility taken by those responsible.

I equally advocate for people to distance themselves of organizations such as Pulo and deprive them of any support thy may claim to have.

[SoCal]

Afraid it is to late to limit any further escalation.

The instigators of the protest probably got exactly what they hoped for and will doubtless now be recruiting in ever increasing numbers.

The only way to stop an escalation now appears to be an official apology from Thaksin and the armed forces along with prosecution of the commanding officers and initiation of a dialogue with the political leaders in Patani.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you, or more importantly the two parties involved think it is too late, then it is too late. I for one however believe it is never too late to try to right a wrong. Maybe somewhat naive, but at times that's all you have.

I agree with an appology (albeit not blanket) and prosecution (of the leaders who ordered/not sure the grunt is to blame as in the west), but preferably in combination with dialogue, and an appology is due from the Muslims as well.

The world is complex, and so is this situation. Both sides must take responsibility & accountability, or afraid little will change. This is the problem with the ME. There is no understanding. There is no taking accountability by both sides for what takes place. It is a series of tit for tat, in righting a wrong upon righting a wrong.

For sure the govt needs to reach out, but doubt that taking all the blame does anything to repair the situation as it stands. Personaly, doubt they have the strength, but our (westerners) pointing fingers at any one group certainly doesn't help. They are both wrong, and both should take accountability.

[katyusha]

Certainly, there should be a probe, and those police who mistreated should be punished,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Punished only if the mistreatment was deliberate SoCal.

I don't think it WAS deliberate.

If just one soldier thought an arrestee was in danger of being suffocated due to the mode of transport, I'm sure he would have spoken up.

Whether or not you consider a few kicks and a clouts with rifle butts "mistreatment" or not is another matter altogether.

[guran]

For sure the govt needs to reach out, but doubt that taking all the blame does anything to repair the situation as it stands. Personaly, doubt they have the strength, but our (westerners) pointing fingers at any one group certainly doesn't help. They are both wrong, and both should take accountability.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that both should take responsibility but in this case we can realistically only hope for the stronger part to do so.

The radicals who initiated the protest will loose all influence if they take any share in the responsibilty.Therefore this is something which will not happen.

But there is a possibility of conciliatory words from religious leaders .

[guran]

Certainly, there should be a probe, and those police who mistreated should be punished,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Punished only if the mistreatment was deliberate SoCal.

I don't think it WAS deliberate.

If just one soldier thought an arrestee was in danger of being suffocated due to the mode of transport, I'm sure he would have spoken up.

Whether or not you consider a few kicks and a clouts with rifle butts "mistreatment" or not is another matter altogether.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would'nt have thought that you were that naive Katy !

Any explanation as to how the arrestees managed to break their own necks ?

[SoCal]

1) I don't think riffle buts are out of the question. Not for Thailand any way. You have to remember where this took place. I don't think anyone would fault Sadam if his mode of torture was putting panties on men's heads, but it was the US govt that we were talking about.

2) I don't agree with the "if only one soldier thought", as all through life people follow a group instead of speaking up. This is tested and proven.

3) Deliberate or not, someone is responsible for these deaths, and you cannot bestow the honor of "ignorant country guy" on the leaders who either ordered it or watched it. Do you think that they didn't cry out before there last breath? Who is responsible, and what is the punishment, is beyond how deep I care to get involved on this subject, and my personal knowledge of how things transpired.

I just keep saying what I've been saying. Plenty of blame to go around. Plenty of blame on both sides. Should they fail to realize this, then they will have their river of blood, times two. Those in the west should point this out, both here and elsewhere, rather than taking sides and further fractionalizing the two groups. This does nothing, but exacerbate an already dire situation.

[guran]

Katy appears to be a very mixed up .... girl ????

I do not want to have any kids as I feel that the world just isn't a good place to bring kids up anymore

If everyone felt the same then the human race would become extinct in one generation.

I would like to experience natural childbirth before I'm too old. Sadly the scales are weighted against me. Copulation with a guy is just about out of the question, and government restrictions make IVF extremely difficult for women like me.

I'm considered perfect to fight and possiby die for my country, but I cannot even adopt a child while I live in Australia.

A de facto "village" adoption in a third world country is one way out, but it would make me an outcast, unable to return to my own country with my child.

Dad thinks IVF in Europe and childbirth in Australia is the best legal solution. He's probably right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Artisi]

As quoted in the Sydney Morning Herald today – He (Toxin) blamed the deaths on a shortage of transport because of a public holiday.

"It was an accident during transport which happened because the time and situation was pressing.”

"There were few vehicles available; that was why they were crammed together, which made it a bit rough."

This must be the understatement of the year – “ which made it a bit rough” bloody rough on the poor bastards that died.

Plus “shortage of transport because of a public holiday” I thought this was a major problem area – and the military were on holidays – so how did all the troops get to the scene??.

Next Toxin will want us to believe in Santa Claus.

[sriracha john]

Islam again, what a surprize

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are so correct that it's no surprise that Islam is behind the uprisings in the South of Thailand!

I live in america & the "normal" Thai I've met are a welcome departure from what I experience in my own country. My travels to Thailand have always left me with the feeling that the Thai (Buddhists) are a very peaceful people. Then, when I learned of the violence & killing in the South of Thailand, I was very surprised because violence & killing are not typical behaviors for Thai.

After learning that it's the Thai "Muslims" who are in the South of Thailand, and that they are responsible for the violence & killing, I was not surprised at all. In my mind, those "Thai" are not Thai at all. They are just part of the Muslim murdering machine. It's a shame that less than 100 Islamics were defused in the riots.

Let the world wine about human rights. The Thai government is doing exactly the right thing... just not enough of it to rid Thailand of the cancer residing in the South. If left unchecked, that Islamic tumor will grow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Best if you stay there in the rural backwaters of Alabama rather than expose yourself to the "dangers" of Thailand.