thaigene2 Posted June 15, 2008 Author Share Posted June 15, 2008 (edited) I just love how this always turns into the TRT were the "only" vote buyers in Issan story.. ALL THE main parties used to REGULARLY go into ALL these areas of the country and show off their cash and how 'poo-yai' they were with big cash for the 'poo-lek'. Nobody had to vote for anyone of course (though they were expected to vote - sicne they were given cash - the idea was that they WOULD VOTE - and preferrably for the guy who gave them cash). The Democrats slowed this down to a trickle in Issaan as they knew it was a waste of money AND becuase they wasnted to use it as the weapon you now see unfolding (rather laughably actually..like so many of their weak minded ideas - rich kids who paid someone else to do their theses..how rich but how 'ordinary' they really are - they'd never cut it in the West.). That's it. Ce tout. "set laou" Edited June 15, 2008 by thaigene2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 I just love how this always turns into the TRT were the "only" vote buyers in Issan story..ALL THE main parties used to REGULARLY go into ALL these areas of the country and show off their cash and how 'poo-yai' they were with big cash for the 'poo-lek'. Nobody had to vote for anyone of course (though they were expected to vote - sicne they were given cash - the idea was that they WOULD VOTE - and preferrably for the guy who gave them cash). The Democrats slowed this down to a trickle in Issaan as they knew it was a waste of money AND becuase they wasnted to use it as the weapon you now see unfolding (rather laughably actually..like so many of their weak minded ideas - rich kids who paid someone else to do their theses..how rich but how 'ordinary' they really are - they'd never cut it in the West.). That's it. Ce tout. "set laou" Well, I didn't saw any vote buying in the south (maybe except muslim areas) from the democrats. I saw some vote buying from TRT in the south, but they didn't vote them. I didn't saw vote buying from the Democrats in Bangkok and Isaan, but can't exclude that there were minor cases. Look at the last election: Democrates won all the south (as always) and all the centers of the main cities. While PPP won all nord/nord-east outside areas. I didn't saw any vote buying from the Democrates in the last 3 elections, but it is now important if ALL do it or not, ALL which do it should be punished and real punished not the Thai way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilnisibene Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 It depends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Would You Support Another Coup? yes I would ..... a peaceful coup that would bring a ban for life from politics that symbol of wishy washy liberalism, hypocrite khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and any member of his party. A coup that would instal a government charged to look into visas held by some expats, especially the decrepit, garrulous pensioner/fake-teacher variety. Get rid of them and Thailand would be better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepe' Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 I think a coup wold be a good thing, not that it would solve anything.Rather it would show Thailand and Thai metality for what it really is... And for selfish reasons another coup would really dent investor confidence and possibly improve my foreign exchange rate...and keep it a cheap 3rd world country. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ First, I love Thailand. After working hard all year I can't think of a better place to play. I was ready and anxious to retire there a couple of years ago. But I really can no longer take the country or the people seriously anymore. like my ex brother in law says Thailand is just for fun. That's not a bad thing is it. As far as a coup goes, how many have there been so far? The perception in the US is that's just the way things are done there. I just talked with my ex-sister in-law in BKK she was schooled in Switzerland, and I do love her, but she's just "dumb as a post." I ask her about the her possibility of another coup and she says it doesn't matter. No problem for her family. When the last coup was going on she said no problem everything normal here in Samut Sakon... Another coup mai pen rai... PS "Anything thats good for my wallet is good"- my Thai ex wife... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlRedEyes Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 But I really can no longer take the country or the people seriously anymore. like my ex brother in law says Thailand is just for fun. Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaigene2 Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 Would You Support Another Coup? yes I would ..... a peaceful coup that would bring a ban for life from politics that symbol of wishy washy liberalism, hypocrite khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and any member of his party. A coup that would instal a government charged to look into visas held by some expats, especially the decrepit, garrulous pensioner/fake-teacher variety. Get rid of them and Thailand would be better for it. Would it be ok if they also got rid of the decrepit, garrulous retired US "servicemen" pensioners while they're at it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Would You Support Another Coup? yes I would ..... a peaceful coup that would bring a ban for life from politics that symbol of wishy washy liberalism, hypocrite khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and any member of his party. A coup that would instal a government charged to look into visas held by some expats, especially the decrepit, garrulous pensioner/fake-teacher variety. Get rid of them and Thailand would be better for it. Would it be ok if they also got rid of the decrepit, garrulous retired US "servicemen" pensioners while they're at it? Yeah... good ideas... tie 'em up then stack them on top of each other llike cord wood in the back of trucks... that'll get 'em out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlRedEyes Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Would You Support Another Coup? yes I would ..... a peaceful coup that would bring a ban for life from politics that symbol of wishy washy liberalism, hypocrite khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and any member of his party. A coup that would instal a government charged to look into visas held by some expats, especially the decrepit, garrulous pensioner/fake-teacher variety. Get rid of them and Thailand would be better for it. Yawn. Another suspect ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonobo Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 As a non Thai I would not answer such a question as it has nothing to do with me, nor would I be happy to read such a Post if I was a moderator !! Best keep your nose and everything else out You wouldn't be happy to discuss another country's politics even when it effects you? Sorry, I agree with nothaburial on this. We are guests in this country, and it is not up to us to supoort or not-support a coup, election, or whatever. You can have your own opinions, of course, on whether any sort of political action would be good or bad for you or for the country, but this is a matter for Thais and Thais alone, and support for any political action is up to them and not to us as guests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crushdepth Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Sorry, I agree with nothaburial on this. We are guests in this country, and it is not up to us to supoort or not-support a coup, election, or whatever. I will preface my comment by admitting that the 'we are guests in this country' yada does get up my nose a fair bit :-) Not all expats are guests here at the sufferance of the Thai government. Many people have significant investments or businesses that employ Thai people. A lot more are married to Thai citizens and have Thai kids. They have an interest in the politics and governance of this country, whether it is recognised or not. Plenty of people are happy to turn a blind eye to corruption, abuse of human rights and just plain bastardry because 'its not their country and not their business', but a lot of other people don't think that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEENTHEREDONETHAT Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Sorry, I agree with nothaburial on this. We are guests in this country, and it is not up to us to supoort or not-support a coup, election, or whatever. I will preface my comment by admitting that the 'we are guests in this country' yada does get up my nose a fair bit :-) Not all expats are guests here at the sufferance of the Thai government. Many people have significant investments or businesses that employ Thai people. A lot more are married to Thai citizens and have Thai kids. They have an interest in the politics and governance of this country, whether it is recognised or not. Plenty of people are happy to turn a blind eye to corruption, abuse of human rights and just plain bastardry because 'its not their country and not their business', but a lot of other people don't think that way. I think that is true for many even in their own country, they just don't want to get involved. Let someone else worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofdelusion Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I've been supporting a coup back home in the US for years. Not getting much momentum though. This Thai government, however corrupt or inept, is nothing compared to old W. Here's my solution. Let W run Thailand. Smaller military so he can do less damage. He will however quadruple their budget and the military will love him. Thaksin to the US to straighten out the economy and Samak goes back to the cooking show. There! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaigene2 Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 Would You Support Another Coup? yes I would ..... a peaceful coup that would bring a ban for life from politics that symbol of wishy washy liberalism, hypocrite khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and any member of his party. A coup that would instal a government charged to look into visas held by some expats, especially the decrepit, garrulous pensioner/fake-teacher variety. Get rid of them and Thailand would be better for it. Would it be ok if they also got rid of the decrepit, garrulous retired US "servicemen" pensioners while they're at it? Yeah... good ideas... tie 'em up then stack them on top of each other llike cord wood in the back of trucks... that'll get 'em out of here. Sort of a Thak Bai of old grey haired pony tails, no? But then there would be no "Seargent William A. Smith, US Army (retired)" to amuse us in the Bangkok Post - flaming away about "them commies" and how the wonderful Thai class-system is so correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaigene2 Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 There is a big flaw in this poll (as often !), No there isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Would You Support Another Coup? yes I would ..... a peaceful coup that would bring a ban for life from politics that symbol of wishy washy liberalism, hypocrite khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and any member of his party. A coup that would instal a government charged to look into visas held by some expats, especially the decrepit, garrulous pensioner/fake-teacher variety. Get rid of them and Thailand would be better for it. Would it be ok if they also got rid of the decrepit, garrulous retired US "servicemen" pensioners while they're at it? why, do you have anybody in mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telaksslave Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 My poll - so here is background to the above question for those not close to this.When the military moved in to remove the democratically elected TRT Government, it did so following demostrations by a largely middle-class Bangkok group called the PAD, saying it was necessary to do so as there was serious social disunity. However, it promised to hold elections a year later. It kept the promise and the election was held. It was considered free and fair by most though there were reports (as always) about vote buying. The electorate returned to power a party (PPP) that was a self-admitted proxy of the TRT. i noticed that only about 12% of farangs are idiots, i thought the percentage would have been a lot higher, what on earth are these people thinking about, how can a military coup im prove the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonobo Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Sorry, I agree with nothaburial on this. We are guests in this country, and it is not up to us to supoort or not-support a coup, election, or whatever. I will preface my comment by admitting that the 'we are guests in this country' yada does get up my nose a fair bit :-) Not all expats are guests here at the sufferance of the Thai government. Many people have significant investments or businesses that employ Thai people. A lot more are married to Thai citizens and have Thai kids. They have an interest in the politics and governance of this country, whether it is recognised or not. Plenty of people are happy to turn a blind eye to corruption, abuse of human rights and just plain bastardry because 'its not their country and not their business', but a lot of other people don't think that way. Sorry, but we are guests. Unless we become citizens, that is what we are. I directly employ hundreds of Thais, so I think I qualify as someone giving to the country as you describe it. And I do take an interest in what is going on. I have employees who are out there protesting each Sunday, and I have employees who think Thaksin is a saint. And yes, whatever the government does has a tremendous influence on my business. But I do not hold a vote. It is not up to me on who is PM, mayor, etc. That is for THai citizens. My only "vote" is to vote with my feet. If I don't like it, I can leave. As a "guest," it is not my place to directly support or defend a particular government. As an American, I felt the same when Mexican nationals took to the streets in the US to protest US policies and push for more rights. Sorry, but they are not US citizens, so they should not be able to dictate to the US government. Of course, no one was going to arrrest them in the US. Freedom of speech also applies to them while in the US. But this is Thailand. We came here, we choose to live here. And we have to play by Thai rules. This is not "turning a blind eye." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepe' Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Would You Support Another Coup? yes I would ..... a peaceful coup that would bring a ban for life from politics that symbol of wishy washy liberalism, hypocrite khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and any member of his party. A coup that would instal a government charged to look into visas held by some expats, especially the decrepit, garrulous pensioner/fake-teacher variety. Get rid of them and Thailand would be better for it. Would it be ok if they also got rid of the decrepit, garrulous retired US "servicemen" pensioners while they're at it? Yeah... good ideas... tie 'em up then stack them on top of each other llike cord wood in the back of trucks... that'll get 'em out of here. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Guess you're from elsewhere than the USA. If not for those US service men you might be speaking Russian or German now. From the tone of your post maybe you already do. How cavalier to speak that way about people who had their lives on the line for others. But having passed comments like that I guess you just don't get it and for sure have never been in combat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 (edited) Would You Support Another Coup? yes I would ..... a peaceful coup that would bring a ban for life from politics that symbol of wishy washy liberalism, hypocrite khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and any member of his party. A coup that would instal a government charged to look into visas held by some expats, especially the decrepit, garrulous pensioner/fake-teacher variety. Get rid of them and Thailand would be better for it. Would it be ok if they also got rid of the decrepit, garrulous retired US "servicemen" pensioners while they're at it? Yeah... good ideas... tie 'em up then stack them on top of each other llike cord wood in the back of trucks... that'll get 'em out of here. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Guess you're from elsewhere than the USA. If not for those US service men you might be speaking Russian or German now. From the tone of your post maybe you already do. How cavalier to speak that way about people who had their lives on the line for others. But having passed comments like that I guess you just don't get it and for sure have never been in combat... Sorry, you missed the facetiousness of my response to a couple of trolling posts. Edited June 17, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepe' Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Would You Support Another Coup? yes I would ..... a peaceful coup that would bring a ban for life from politics that symbol of wishy washy liberalism, hypocrite khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and any member of his party. A coup that would instal a government charged to look into visas held by some expats, especially the decrepit, garrulous pensioner/fake-teacher variety. Get rid of them and Thailand would be better for it. Would it be ok if they also got rid of the decrepit, garrulous retired US "servicemen" pensioners while they're at it? Yeah... good ideas... tie 'em up then stack them on top of each other llike cord wood in the back of trucks... that'll get 'em out of here. $$$$$$$$ Guess you're from elsewhere than the USA. If not for those US service men you might be speaking Russian or German now. From the tone of your post maybe you already do. How cavalier to speak that way about people who had their lives on the line for others. But having passed comments like that I guess you just don't get it and for sure have never been in combat... Sorry, you missed the facetiousness of my response to a couple of trolling posts. $$$$$$$$$$$$$ Apologies. I just woke up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluezo Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Would I support another coup? If it brought chaos, riots and mayhem - sure I would! Anything for excitment and good newspaper reading .. and nervous farang chit-chat. You betcha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaigene2 Posted June 17, 2008 Author Share Posted June 17, 2008 (edited) Would You Support Another Coup? yes I would ..... a peaceful coup that would bring a ban for life from politics that symbol of wishy washy liberalism, hypocrite khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and any member of his party. A coup that would instal a government charged to look into visas held by some expats, especially the decrepit, garrulous pensioner/fake-teacher variety. Get rid of them and Thailand would be better for it. Would it be ok if they also got rid of the decrepit, garrulous retired US "servicemen" pensioners while they're at it? Yeah... good ideas... tie 'em up then stack them on top of each other llike cord wood in the back of trucks... that'll get 'em out of here. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Guess you're from elsewhere than the USA. If not for those US service men you might be speaking Russian or German now. From the tone of your post maybe you already do. How cavalier to speak that way about people who had their lives on the line for others. But having passed comments like that I guess you just don't get it and for sure have never been in combat... Sorry, you missed the facetiousness of my response to a couple of trolling posts. Frankly, Sriracha John, I don't give a rat's ass how many posts you have. Your kind are a joke. You and "Pepe" hide behind this veneer that you have fought the valiant fights (or did you?) - but all you and your prophets did was bring us to the unbridled capitalist state we're in now. Look at America - if that's what you think is the model state. What is there? Lower and middle class people losing their health and their homes because they got sucked into the "Consumerist" dream - is that what Ameica was supposed to be about...NO WAY, it was supposed to be about a country that looked after its own - but you hold nothing but contempt for that idea, don't you??! Instead, you've got CNBC and a government that now looks for skapegoats when the idiocy of the whole consumerism thing was obvious to anyone who didn't swallow all that bullshit at lest twenty years ago, if not from the get-go! Yeah, sure, Maj. Smith - you're a hero. We salute what YOU thought you were fighting for (and I do actually mean that), but look where we are now. So who ya going to blame now "Them Commies" - what a joke. Blame yourselves - blame your countries. Blame us all. Then go wave your flag. You and all your "Major Frank A. Smith, U.S. Army (retired)" nutters that keep sending that crap to the Bangkok Post 'Post Bag" Edited June 17, 2008 by thaigene2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaigene2 Posted June 17, 2008 Author Share Posted June 17, 2008 Good to know that there is a "Democrats Abroad" camp to esnure overseas Democrats get to vote, and that there is no such "Republican" thingy here in Thailand.. Assuring - but I'll wait til election-day-plus-one to party since we've all been so dumbfounded by the outcomes before. Sorry for ranting Off-Topic. Will not get lured back (I hope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Would You Support Another Coup? yes I would ..... a peaceful coup that would bring a ban for life from politics that symbol of wishy washy liberalism, hypocrite khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and any member of his party. A coup that would instal a government charged to look into visas held by some expats, especially the decrepit, garrulous pensioner/fake-teacher variety. Get rid of them and Thailand would be better for it. Would it be ok if they also got rid of the decrepit, garrulous retired US "servicemen" pensioners while they're at it? Yeah... good ideas... tie 'em up then stack them on top of each other llike cord wood in the back of trucks... that'll get 'em out of here. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Guess you're from elsewhere than the USA. If not for those US service men you might be speaking Russian or German now. From the tone of your post maybe you already do. How cavalier to speak that way about people who had their lives on the line for others. But having passed comments like that I guess you just don't get it and for sure have never been in combat... Sorry, you missed the facetiousness of my response to a couple of trolling posts. Frankly, Sriracha John, I don't give a rat's ass how many posts you have. Your kind are a joke. You and "Pepe" hide behind this veneer that you have fought the valiant fights (or did you?) - but all you and your prophets did was bring us to the unbridled capitalist state we're in now. Look at America - if that's what you think is the model state. What is there? Lower and middle class people losing their health and their homes because they got sucked into the "Consumerist" dream - is that what Ameica was supposed to be about...NO WAY, it was supposed to be about a country that looked after its own - but you hold nothing but contempt for that idea, don't you??! Instead, you've got CNBC and a government that now looks for skapegoats when the idiocy of the whole consumerism thing was obvious to anyone who didn't swallow all that bullshit at lest twenty years ago, if not from the get-go! Yeah, sure, Maj. Smith - you're a hero. We salute what YOU thought you were fighting for (and I do actually mean that), but look where we are now. So who ya going to blame now "Them Commies" - what a joke. Blame yourselves - blame your countries. Blame us all. Then go wave your flag. You and all your "Major Frank A. Smith, U.S. Army (retired)" nutters that keep sending that crap to the Bangkok Post 'Post Bag" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Would You Support Another Coup? yes I would ..... a peaceful coup that would bring a ban for life from politics that symbol of wishy washy liberalism, hypocrite khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and any member of his party. A coup that would instal a government charged to look into visas held by some expats, especially the decrepit, garrulous pensioner/fake-teacher variety. Get rid of them and Thailand would be better for it. Would it be ok if they also got rid of the decrepit, garrulous retired US "servicemen" pensioners while they're at it? Yeah... good ideas... tie 'em up then stack them on top of each other llike cord wood in the back of trucks... that'll get 'em out of here. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Guess you're from elsewhere than the USA. If not for those US service men you might be speaking Russian or German now. From the tone of your post maybe you already do. How cavalier to speak that way about people who had their lives on the line for others. But having passed comments like that I guess you just don't get it and for sure have never been in combat... It is off-topic, but what difference does it make? Now we all have to speak english. Different countries tried to make empires. I can't see where the USA was better or worse than the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MengWan Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 There is a big flaw in this poll (as often !), No there isn't. Yes, indeed, there is ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepe' Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Would You Support Another Coup? yes I would ..... a peaceful coup that would bring a ban for life from politics that symbol of wishy washy liberalism, hypocrite khun Abhisit Vejjajiva and any member of his party. A coup that would instal a government charged to look into visas held by some expats, especially the decrepit, garrulous pensioner/fake-teacher variety. Get rid of them and Thailand would be better for it. Would it be ok if they also got rid of the decrepit, garrulous retired US "servicemen" pensioners while they're at it? Yeah... good ideas... tie 'em up then stack them on top of each other llike cord wood in the back of trucks... that'll get 'em out of here. $$$$$$$$ Guess you're from elsewhere than the USA. If not for those US service men you might be speaking Russian or German now. From the tone of your post maybe you already do. How cavalier to speak that way about people who had their lives on the line for others. But having passed comments like that I guess you just don't get it and for sure have never been in combat... Sorry, you missed the facetiousness of my response to a couple of trolling posts. Frankly, Sriracha John, I don't give a rat's ass how many posts you have. Your kind are a joke. You and "Pepe" hide behind this veneer that you have fought the valiant fights (or did you?) - but all you and your prophets did was bring us to the unbridled capitalist state we're in now. Look at America - if that's what you think is the model state. What is there? Lower and middle class people losing their health and their homes because they got sucked into the "Consumerist" dream - is that what Ameica was supposed to be about...NO WAY, it was supposed to be about a country that looked after its own - but you hold nothing but contempt for that idea, don't you??! Instead, you've got CNBC and a government that now looks for skapegoats when the idiocy of the whole consumerism thing was obvious to anyone who didn't swallow all that bullshit at lest twenty years ago, if not from the get-go! Yeah, sure, Maj. Smith - you're a hero. We salute what YOU thought you were fighting for (and I do actually mean that), but look where we are now. So who ya going to blame now "Them Commies" - what a joke. Blame yourselves - blame your countries. Blame us all. Then go wave your flag. You and all your "Major Frank A. Smith, U.S. Army (retired)" nutters that keep sending that crap to the Bangkok Post 'Post Bag" $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I did and definitely not proud of it. But I was a kid and didn't see any other way out at the time. I am certainly not a joke and do have definite opinions. If you refer to me as a joke then I believe you are just simply an AH. The point was that I thought refering to the vets in such a derogatory way was uncalled for, low class and inappropriate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruhip Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Do you guys (and girls) all love Thailand so much that wouldn't like to see the baht hit the all time high of 47 (in 1997) again? I would, I live here and have for over 5 years. I come to this forum for laughs at all the foreigners who proclaim their 'love for Thailand'. Do you think that there is a forum in your own country visited by foreigners who proclaim their 'love for your country'? If there was, I would think that Thai's would be the fewest population on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumnien Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I've changed my mind, I'm ready to support a coup! Anything that will get those moronic nationalistic PAD (People Against Democracy) off the streets and out of the news is a good thing. They have severely damaged the country and like spoiled rich children must have their own way! I say give it to them and get on with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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