Ex-premier Concerned With Deep Divisions Among Thais

[george]

Ex-premier concerned with deep divisions among Thais

BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Anand Panyarachun on Sunday expressed his concern that the country's people are clearly divided into two groups and the divisions have become too deep to be reconciled.

Speaking of the role of public television amid the current conflicts, he said that public TV should not allow itself to be dragged to the centre of such conflicts, taking a particular vantage point, but should rather play a role as a venue where the public could get opinions presented from all sides and points of view.

It should neither dictate, nor decide who is right or wrong because it has no duty to do that.

In his view, its public television's news coverage should be fair to both sides, adding other TV channels had the right to follow.

Mr. Anand conceded he is deeply concerned with the country's current political situation.

In principle, he viewed a difference of opinions among people could happen in all societies, but that people of differing points of view should be able to talk with each other and find a common way out. Having different opinions should not lead to a use of force by any party.

Under the current circumstances, he admitted the people are divided so deeply and have become so polarised that reconciliation could no longer be possible because both sides no longer believe or trust in each other.

In democratic societies, parliamentary mechanisms could be brought to focus on issues and problems areas, to address or reduce conflicts.

But should the parliament fail to perform its duty completely, it is unavoidable that the conflicts will lead to roadside demonstrations because it is a right for people to do that under the current constitution.

Regarding the proposed referendum on the charter rewrite requiring a budget of up to Bt2 billion to organise, Mr. Anand said it was pointless if the referendum is held only to ask whether the charter should be amended or not.

Rather, he viewed the question must be raised regarding which articles of the charter should be amended if such a revision is thought to be needed.

"In my opinion, the 2007 constitution can be amended. At the same time, the 1997 charter is not very favourable," he said. "The point is which article should be amended."

--TNA 2008-06-09

[george]

POLITICAL CRISIS

Point of no return: Anand

Ex-prime minister says PAD, rivals are irreconcilable; rejects idea for mediation effort by ex-premiers

BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Anand Panyarachun believes Thai politics has become so polarised that it is beyond reconciliation.

He also played down the idea of having four former prime ministers act as mediators to defuse the political conflict.

Speaking at the Royal Navy Auditorium yesterday after presiding over a seminar on public television, Anand said he was very concerned about the situation because there were two opposing forces who did not seem able to reach reconciliation.

"Every society has differences [in ideas]. But there must be some grounds to work out the differences so that it will not lead to physical violence. At present, Thai politics is clearly divided into two. And I think it has reached a point beyond reconciliation," Anand said.

The People's Alliance for Democracy has continued its street demonstration for the second week. It initially set forth its demand that the government must not amend the 2007 Constitution to help bail out former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra from his corruption cases. Now it has added another condition - for the Samak government to resign altogether because it is acting as a nominee for Thaksin and it has failed to tackle the problems of the country.

Thaksin's supporters have also been hitting back at the PAD in a tit-for-tat political battle that has created an atmosphere of instability and spooked investors.

Anand said both sides could not reach any mutual understanding because they were not speaking the same language. When one party raises one point, the other party answers another question.

"They not only need to speak the same language but also the same subject in order to reach an understanding. If they keep on speaking against each other, they will never be able to achieve reconciliation," Anand said.

Respected social critic Dr Praves Wasi suggested that one way to defuse the political conflict is for four former prime ministers to act as mediators between the two sides. This, he said, would help resolve the conflict.

But Anand said mediators could not speak on anybody's behalf and that at best they could only facilitate talks.

"Now I am getting old. I need to have a rest. Let's get the young men and women to do the job," Anand said.

Speaking on his weekly radio talk show, Samak opposed the idea to have four former premiers act as mediators.

"If you bring four former prime ministers to join a talk, what then can they do?" Samak said.

"They can't issue orders. They can only talk. But what happens after that? Under the current situation, the present prime minister, which is me, is assuming responsibility. If there is any mistake, we all can see. And is there any mistake? No, there is not. I am not working alone. I work as a team with 35 other Cabinet members."

--The Nation 2008-06-09

[Martin]

"....the divisions have become too deep to be reconciled."

The chickens (in this case, two fighting cocks) are coming home to roost.

The only hope is that,ultimately, the next generation will see the values of openness and compromise to mutual advantage.

But in the meantime (and especially at the time of crisis that is bound to come, but we are not allowed to mention) events may unfold unbeneficially.

It is the poor who will carry the burden of the outfall, though. 'When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled on.'

[Scott]

Sadly, I just don't see a happy ending to this story.

[hammered]

What K. Anand says is worrying as he is an intelligent analyst and also well connected. It seems like some form of clash is almost inevitable at some point.

Persoanlly, I didnt understand Samak's remark unless it was just to remind everyone that he is the PM.

[george]

Caravan of the Poor gives PAD 7 days to halt rallies

BANGKOK: -- The Caravan of the Poor Monday threatened to bring northeastern farmers to hold a counter demonstration against the People's Alliance for Democracy if the PAD does not halt its demonstrations in 7 days.

Atthasit Singlor, secretary-general of the Caravan of the Poor, alleged that the PAD had caused a lot of damages to the country and people in the neighbourhood with its on-going rallies on the Rajdamnone Avenue.

"If the PAD does not stop causing trouble to the people with its demonstrations in 7 days, the networks of farmers will gather its members and move to Bangkok to pressure the PAD to stop," Atthasit said.

-- The Nation 2008-06-09

[bratpack]

Civil unrest could happen soon.Lock your doors if you are rich,the people majority are coming.

Seriously though,the have nots are getting well peed off with the minority haves and the divide is getting bigger and bigger.Not looking good to me for the future of thailand.Democracy should be the name of the game but the PAD will not respect this,so lets have a communist country then,led by the hi so,thats what they want realy isnt it???

[george]

Klong Toey residents rally at Democrat head office

BANGKOK: -- Some 200 Klong Toey residents rallied in front of the head office of the Democrat Party Monday morning to demand it to stop supporting the demonstration of the People's Alliance for Democracy.

The demonstrators arrived in four minibuses and vans at 10:30 am.

They held banners with wording attacking the Demcrat such as "Abhisit: Stop Telling Lies," "Democrat: Stop Supporting PAD", and "Democrat: Don't Tell MPs to Support PAD".

The protesters dispersed after handing over their letter of protest to Democrat deputy leader Jurin Laksanavisit.

-- The Nation 2008-06-09

[hammered]

Interesting and predictable power plays by the usual players. What's more interesting is who exactly it is aimed at. When your schemes in parliament are sidelined, and by your own side, it is time to turn to the streets.

The "Dont tell MPs to support PAD" is an interesting comment that says as much about the attitude of those framing it as those it is aimed at. Does Abhisit order his MPs to support the PAD, or is the poltical culture the framer comes from one where the powerful order the lower to do things, or both?

All this demonstration stuff will end in tears if we arent careful.

[Pierrot]

Civil unrest could happen soon.Lock your doors if you are rich,the people majority are coming.

Seriously though,the have nots are getting well peed off with the minority haves and the divide is getting bigger and bigger.Not looking good to me for the future of thailand.Democracy should be the name of the game but the PAD will not respect this,so lets have a communist country then,led by the hi so,thats what they want realy isnt it???

Nothing to do with being rich. And don't you think enough people have been killed in the name of the fight against communism ?

It's the business class against the old order. It's time to give the command of the country to those who fill the coffers.

Edited June 9, 2008 by Pierrot

[Plus]

It's the business class against the old order. It's time to give the command of the country to those who fill the coffers.

Nonsense.

If it was true, can you tell why it's "Caravan of the Poor", not "Lion's club", who take to the streets and protest against PAD.

You won't see businessmen protesting against Democrats either, except the ones who were caught with pants down in 1997 and blamed Democrats for their own mistakes, like "uncle Prachai".

Would you give command of the country to them? They bankrupted it once already.

[bratpack]

Caravans of the poor v the merc PAD.

Think i will fight for ther huge majority,any guesses who they are.

As one poster said its nothing to do with wealth,derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[plachon]

Civil unrest could happen soon.Lock your doors if you are rich,the people majority are coming.

Seriously though,the have nots are getting well peed off with the minority haves and the divide is getting bigger and bigger.Not looking good to me for the future of thailand.Democracy should be the name of the game but the PAD will not respect this,so lets have a communist country then,led by the hi so,thats what they want realy isnt it???

Nothing to do with being rich. And don't you think enough people have been killed in the name of the fight against communism ?

It's the business class against the old order. It's time to give the command of the country to those who fill the coffers.

Like who exactly? Toxin and his cohorts systematically emptied the country's coffers during his six year reign. Business class to a man.

You and Bratpack clearly don't have a clue what is going on in the struggle for Thailand at the moment.

[bratpack]

I am allowed a viewpoint,whether you think it is right or not.I have no interest to say if i think you are right or wrong.

[h90]

what compromise? Thaksin want to take it all and PAD don't want to give anything.

Destroy the courts only a little bit. Or buy only half of the votes?

What compromise is possible? Thaksin in power or Thaksin in jail is the question

[Pierrot]

It's the business class against the old order. It's time to give the command of the country to those who fill the coffers.

Nonsense.

Would you give command of the country to them? They bankrupted it once already.

As far as I am concerned, Thaksin era was a time of economical stability and prosperity. How many government prior to Thaksin's went to the end of their mandate ? How many never ended project were eventually finished under Thaksin's care? Why do you think the military wanted so desesperately to close the new airport, the so "in your face" symbol of his success ?

You and Bratpack clearly don't have a clue what is going on in the struggle for Thailand at the moment.

So please explain enlightened one.

[harleyclarkey]

As so often happens in civil unrest the foreigners take a hit. They are perceived as not being one of us, well off and so to plunder and pillage them is fair game. I am NOT saying this is a scenario in Thailand but it should not be dismissed out of hand. Things have to really go down the dumps for such a scene.

Better for any goverment to fully integrate people who choose to set up and live in their country and to protect them and their assets with fair laws. Something not applicable in Thailand. They are then percieved by the locals to be more welcomed by the powers that be.

Civil unrest is a very ugly thing indeed. I have seen it 1st hand in India and Africa.

[Siripon]

Reconciliation is entirely possible if Thaksin is willing to fight his charges in court, but is he?

Regarding PAD, the wives of one the top associates of an extremely powerful company stepped onstage last week and handed over a cheque for 100,000 baht. To portray the conflict as the old elite versus new money is an error in my view. More like one man's meglomania combined with megabucks against anyone in his way.

[Pushit]

As Thaksin would say "When you find yourself in a hole, bring on the steam shovels"

[plachon]

It's the business class against the old order. It's time to give the command of the country to those who fill the coffers.

Nonsense.

Would you give command of the country to them? They bankrupted it once already.

As far as I am concerned, Thaksin era was a time of economical stability and prosperity. How many government prior to Thaksin's went to the end of their mandate ? How many never ended project were eventually finished under Thaksin's care? Why do you think the military wanted so desesperately to close the new airport, the so "in your face" symbol of his success ?

If Swampy Airport is a symbol of "success", then I'm a Somalian soothsayer. The airport project was a symbol of utter corruption in its construction and subsequent allocation of contracts for service (think Kingpower); was shoddily built (think cracked runways and subsidence); and will cost an absolute fortune in operation and maintenance, due to poor design and corner cutting throughout. It will do down in history as a Toxin disaster zone, so please carry on associating the airport with his name, as it symbolyses every thing that was wrong with his leadership. All show and no substance.

You and Bratpack clearly don't have a clue what is going on in the struggle for Thailand at the moment.

So please explain enlightened one.

Refer to the thread "PAD to renew movement" for details. No need to repeat old news.

Edited June 9, 2008 by plachon

[eljeque]

East Asia for the most part, needed a couple of years after 97 to clean up the mess, before it could begin to improve. Most of the countries did very well from 2001 to 2005, so Thaksin does not deserve credit for this. It happened most everywhere.

Much of Thailand's growth was in credit. Borrow and spend.

His own company's stock boomed during his tenure. Surprising?

And by the way, he had 2,000 people killed extra-judicially.

eye for an eye

[ericB]

It's the business class against the old order. It's time to give the command of the country to those who fill the coffers.

Nonsense.

Would you give command of the country to them? They bankrupted it once already.

As far as I am concerned, Thaksin era was a time of economical stability and prosperity. How many government prior to Thaksin's went to the end of their mandate ? How many never ended project were eventually finished under Thaksin's care? Why do you think the military wanted so desesperately to close the new airport, the so "in your face" symbol of his success ?

You and Bratpack clearly don't have a clue what is going on in the struggle for Thailand at the moment.

So please explain enlightened one.

AS usual, expats like me (or you, or them) see what is related to them, maybe not what is related to the thai people. Anyway, on this subject, the sin of Taksin was simply to cut the old flow of money (from corruption) going to the traditional elites and simply to channel it to new people (him, his cronies, but also for a part it was channeled to those who have nothing usually). Even if it was a small part (how small or how big I do not know) it was something. To do so, it have to take the money somewhere, and by doing so he have to tax some people who in the past were not taxed. That is why in this forum many nicknamed him Tax Sin.

Those people, who mostly are the same who refuse to follow the law because they know they have only to tip the policemen if they are arrested, do not want things to change. They want this country stay how it was 50 years ago (when dady was comin here in R&R from Da Nang) with cold cheap beer and affordable whores.

To avoid any abuse against my post, allow me to precise I consider Thai people know best what is good for them ... like I do know what is best for my country or you for yours . Personally I live bread that is strong with smelly cheese , frogs legs and snails (from Burgundy only).

Right now, yo uhavea fight btw those who claim to be the tenant of modernity and democracy (but who are the real tenants ofthe democracy if it's not the people themself?) but who are infact the old players of an archaic game with prehistoric rules and those who claim to be the soul and heart of the poors (who are the huge majority of this country) but who are in fact simply the representant of the local ploutocracy with rules who are from the stone age.

Hard to choose who is the good and the vilain, who I love the most even who I hate the most ... The only thing I see coming is the hurricane that will emport many things and many life.

[merijn]

I think the situation is very simple.

Do you want Taksin back in full power or not.

I can not think that a reasonable man would like to have Taksin back so he can fill his and his friend’s pockets even more and make to poor people in Thailand even poorer.

Yes he started a lot of projects for the poor but almost none of then worked for a long time and died a silent dead.

Good for PR but poor for the country.

For the first time my wife is getting involved in politics as she always said that whichever man is in power they will steal from the country for their own benefit.

But now even she says enough is enough and went to Phuket and Bangkok to support the rally’s. ( good for her )

[george]

PAD rallies in support of AEC

BANGKOK: -- The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) Monday staged a "mini" rally at the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) to lend moral support to the graft busters in light of the bullying by the defence team to file defamation charges in retaliation for graft probes against former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

In a sea of yellow braving heavy rain, about 5,000 PAD-led protesters waved banners for the AEC to carry on its job.

From its main rally site at Makkhawan Rangsan Bridge, the PAD dispatched its three organisers, Somsak Kosaisuk, Suriyasai Katasila and Somkiart Pongpaiboon, to lead the show of support.

"The AEC is doing a great service to the country by uncovering 16 graft cases with Bt180 billion in damages linked to the Thaksin government," Suriyasai said.

-- The Nation 2008-06-09

[h90]

It's the business class against the old order. It's time to give the command of the country to those who fill the coffers.

Nonsense.

Would you give command of the country to them? They bankrupted it once already.

As far as I am concerned, Thaksin era was a time of economical stability and prosperity. How many government prior to Thaksin's went to the end of their mandate ? How many never ended project were eventually finished under Thaksin's care? Why do you think the military wanted so desesperately to close the new airport, the so "in your face" symbol of his success ?

You and Bratpack clearly don't have a clue what is going on in the struggle for Thailand at the moment.

So please explain enlightened one.

That Chuan repaired Thailand after the 1997 crises (in which Thaksin was also involved) and gave TRT a country in good conditions. As well the first 2 years of Thaksin were not so bad, till he got controll of everything.

[rafval]

they say you can buy anything in thailand, some people in thailand are far richer then the likes of taksin, oh well, what can you say? nothing

[h90]

It's the business class against the old order. It's time to give the command of the country to those who fill the coffers.

Nonsense.

Would you give command of the country to them? They bankrupted it once already.

As far as I am concerned, Thaksin era was a time of economical stability and prosperity. How many government prior to Thaksin's went to the end of their mandate ? How many never ended project were eventually finished under Thaksin's care? Why do you think the military wanted so desesperately to close the new airport, the so "in your face" symbol of his success ?

You and Bratpack clearly don't have a clue what is going on in the struggle for Thailand at the moment.

So please explain enlightened one.

AS usual, expats like me (or you, or them) see what is related to them, maybe not what is related to the thai people. Anyway, on this subject, the sin of Taksin was simply to cut the old flow of money (from corruption) going to the traditional elites and simply to channel it to new people (him, his cronies, but also for a part it was channeled to those who have nothing usually). Even if it was a small part (how small or how big I do not know) it was something. To do so, it have to take the money somewhere, and by doing so he have to tax some people who in the past were not taxed. That is why in this forum many nicknamed him Tax Sin.

Those people, who mostly are the same who refuse to follow the law because they know they have only to tip the policemen if they are arrested, do not want things to change. They want this country stay how it was 50 years ago (when dady was comin here in R&R from Da Nang) with cold cheap beer and affordable whores.

To avoid any abuse against my post, allow me to precise I consider Thai people know best what is good for them ... like I do know what is best for my country or you for yours . Personally I live bread that is strong with smelly cheese , frogs legs and snails (from Burgundy only).

Right now, yo uhavea fight btw those who claim to be the tenant of modernity and democracy (but who are the real tenants ofthe democracy if it's not the people themself?) but who are infact the old players of an archaic game with prehistoric rules and those who claim to be the soul and heart of the poors (who are the huge majority of this country) but who are in fact simply the representant of the local ploutocracy with rules who are from the stone age.

Hard to choose who is the good and the vilain, who I love the most even who I hate the most ... The only thing I see coming is the hurricane that will emport many things and many life.

so he have to tax some people who in the past were not taxed.

Yeah I remember the Revenue Minivan searching the Mom and Paps shops, they could close a few and fee the others a lot. So 7-Elven, Lotus, etc. get out of the poverty.

My wife says and she is long time interested in politics, that all the time the politics were corrupt, but they took a 5 %. That is bad but does not destroy the country, while Thaksin did not has any limits, took over all the business himself and increased the corruption to never seen amounts.

[hammered]

I have heard a fair deal of talk about the percent "commision" on bids for contracts being increased under Thaksin. I think where it was channeled was also changed which upset some.

[h90]

It's the business class against the old order. It's time to give the command of the country to those who fill the coffers.

Nonsense.

Would you give command of the country to them? They bankrupted it once already.

As far as I am concerned, Thaksin era was a time of economical stability and prosperity. How many government prior to Thaksin's went to the end of their mandate ? How many never ended project were eventually finished under Thaksin's care? Why do you think the military wanted so desesperately to close the new airport, the so "in your face" symbol of his success ?

You and Bratpack clearly don't have a clue what is going on in the struggle for Thailand at the moment.

So please explain enlightened one.

AS usual, expats like me (or you, or them) see what is related to them, maybe not what is related to the thai people. Anyway, on this subject, the sin of Taksin was simply to cut the old flow of money (from corruption) going to the traditional elites and simply to channel it to new people (him, his cronies, but also for a part it was channeled to those who have nothing usually). Even if it was a small part (how small or how big I do not know) it was something. To do so, it have to take the money somewhere, and by doing so he have to tax some people who in the past were not taxed. That is why in this forum many nicknamed him Tax Sin.

Those people, who mostly are the same who refuse to follow the law because they know they have only to tip the policemen if they are arrested, do not want things to change. They want this country stay how it was 50 years ago (when dady was comin here in R&R from Da Nang) with cold cheap beer and affordable whores.

To avoid any abuse against my post, allow me to precise I consider Thai people know best what is good for them ... like I do know what is best for my country or you for yours . Personally I live bread that is strong with smelly cheese , frogs legs and snails (from Burgundy only).

Right now, yo uhavea fight btw those who claim to be the tenant of modernity and democracy (but who are the real tenants ofthe democracy if it's not the people themself?) but who are infact the old players of an archaic game with prehistoric rules and those who claim to be the soul and heart of the poors (who are the huge majority of this country) but who are in fact simply the representant of the local ploutocracy with rules who are from the stone age.

Hard to choose who is the good and the vilain, who I love the most even who I hate the most ... The only thing I see coming is the hurricane that will emport many things and many life.

so he have to tax some people who in the past were not taxed.

Yeah I remember the Revenue Minivan searching the Mom and Paps shops, they could close a few and fee the others a lot. So 7-Elven, Lotus, etc. get out of the poverty.

My wife says and she is long time interested in politics, that all the time the politics were corrupt, but they took a 5 %. That is bad but does not destroy the country, while Thaksin did not has any limits, took over all the business himself and increased the corruption to never seen amounts.

I have heard a fair deal of talk about the percent "commision" on bids for contracts being increased under Thaksin. I think where it was channeled was also changed which upset some.

As well as founding own companies (well daughter, son, wife, driver, homemaid, etc) which buys cheap and sold to high prices in a large scale.

[jitagon]

I think the situation is very simple.

Do you want Taksin back in full power or not.

I can not think that a reasonable man would like to have Taksin back so he can fill his and his friend’s pockets even more and make to poor people in Thailand even poorer.

Yes he started a lot of projects for the poor but almost none of then worked for a long time and died a silent dead.

Good for PR but poor for the country.

For the first time my wife is getting involved in politics as she always said that whichever man is in power they will steal from the country for their own benefit.

But now even she says enough is enough and went to Phuket and Bangkok to support the rally’s. ( good for her )

I agree. Loathed Toxin when he was in. But when in Rome, or Bangkok, whatever. And wouldn't like to see him back either. But what really swung me is the passion with which spouse is supporting the PAD. And really, you just have to look at Toxin's lot, bunch of n'erdowells (understatement), if ever I saw them, and the members speaking on behalf of the PAD.

Some here always complaining about the ignorance/stupidity of the Thais, but spouse makes me pround