Color Discrimination In Relationship

[sannebkk]

Dearest,

here i go, just wondering how many of you actually deal with this situation:

(I guess this topic has been posted before, I did search but could not find it, if any one knows please refer to the date then i will search for advice in that one;)

Situation:

My bf: ' dark' skinned from kalasin, though works in Ko Chang

Me: from holland, white skinned, studying and now working in BKK

I am sure you all are aware of color discrimination amongst Thai, though the incidents that we are facing when we are together in BKK, is the opposit world of how people look at us when we are in Ko Chang.

In Ko Chang, most Thai look at me as if I am the 'catch of the day'/hooker/stupid easy farang girl. therefor I am the one who feels disrespected.

When we go to BKK, EVERYBODY is shocked (accept in khao san area)

Thai stop in middle of streets, look with dirty looks at us when we are in a shopping mall,or anywhere on the street.

We even had the issue that complete staff in restaurants gather to look at this phenomenom.

Not because we look so cute together ( we do actually!, but because my boyfriend (dark and therefor poor and therefor low respect) is with this white skinned farang girl!

They either dont serve us any drinks anymore, or my man has trouble entering the restaurant again after taking a smoke outside, or when he comes back from a visit to the bath room!

Security is following us all around and my bf frequently will be asked for his ID.

Strangely this only seems to happen in 'Up town' places.where mainly white skin thai work, or foreigners are welcome though thai appearantly not.(I hate to discriminate myself but this is what catched my interest)

We are up to the point that we avoid 'uptown' restaurants (any other then Isaan restaurants /barbeques loacl Thai restaurants as well as street shops) just because we do not feel comfortable anymore.

So my question to you ladies:

Have you been in similar situations and how do you deal with this?

Any recommendations for places where you do are accepted by staff and can have a nice fancy dinner out?

And how does your man react to these reponses? Mine says he does not care but i know he is sensitive and takes notice of this all. Sometimes we just laugh it over ( it is in their culture and we can not change them anyway) but in my heart i am pretty upset about this treatment.

[Goinghomesoon]

We have had some of this. My partner is dark but doesn't look definably Thai. Most Thais pick him as Malaysian or Indonesian, others think he is Middle Eastern. We were just commenting a few days ago how the service in one restaurant went from great to terrible after the waitress discovered he was from Isaan and not from Oman as she initially thought! We have lived together for many months now, the guards are still suspicious about letting him into our condo building alone, despite him having his own key and being formally registered with management as co-resident of our place. The examples go on.

We are very boring and have 2 or 3 western restaurants we frequent where they know us and treat us well. Otherwise we eat at Isaan places or at home (our maid is an amazing cook). Incidentally one of the places where he consistently gets treated really well is Starbucks, so whatever you might think about their coffee or business ethics they get a thumbs up on that front.

It consistently surprises me that my partner actually expects to treated pretty badly by his countrymen. But I guess then he gets to be happy when he is occasionally treated well.

[girlx]

yes this has happened with me too... my ex boyfriend was from krabi province, where most of the people have much darker skin than in the north. he is a very smart, charming guy who could often win people over despite their prejudices, but a few times they were unwavering. they would be rude to me too for being with him and say "why you stay with ugly man?"... he is my ex now for many months, but i recently referred him to a job in nong khai since it is rainy season where he lives and hard to find stable work. so he travelled on his savings up north to interview. the lady who ran the place was a professor. she wouldn't give him the job. later the (farang) husband emailed and apologized that his wife was prejudiced. i remember another thai friend being told he was too "dum" to get a job.

[isabelle17]

Yep-happens to me and my boyfriend all the time....

My boyfriend has very dark skin and I am well, very pale. They ask me "Why is such a beautiful woman with such an ugly man?"

I think my boyfriend is used to the prejudice...but it makes me irritated when people treat him differently just because he had darker skin and speaks southern Thai. I never knew there was so much prejudice and racism in Asia until I got there...it amazes me and makes me realize how open minded the west really is in comparison to some places in Asia, especially Thailand.

I try to ignore it because I know that I won't change anyones mind or the way they think....I love him not matter what.

[sbk]

I can't say we've ever had bad service, but he gets mistaken for Malaysian or Filipino when we go up north. Southerners always know he is Southern and so are, of course, the height of politeness .

The only comment I have ever received from people about the color of my husband's skin (he is dark but that is from fishing every day) is "farang like dark". He was quite a catch when I met him and comes from a very good family so locals always treat him with respect and friendly attitudes. Non-local people who make the mistake of underestimating him quickly find out the error of their ways.

So, I guess alot of it comes down to your man's willingness to take crap from people who think they are somehow better. My husband very politely but firmly (and obviously) lets it become quickly known that he won't take poor service or bad attitudes.

[GracelessFawn]

People always ask my bf if I'm from Isaan or if I work in the farm coz I tan a lot. The things just amuse me. I've stop giving a dam_n whether people lik me or not. I don't need anyone's approval or acceptance. I'm me and if they don't like me, phuck emmmm!

Edited June 10, 2008 by GracelessFawn

[andrisdg]

interesting topic ,get use to it ,racism is alive and well and skin is one of the most obvious starting point .

xenaphopia is like a cancer it cannot be eradicated it goes into remission when it is socially unaceptable in polite society .

the real killer is that socities like holland also discrimante within themselves on fictious racial grounds based on lingiustic differences between the various dutch regions even thou the society in theory is many generations homogenous ,white ,excluding immigrants .

how that racial discrimation is expressed depends in part on the society and the personal circumstance

being white ,being indistinguisable australian is no protection in australia either in aust even after 3 or 4 generations of family post immigration

its like we all have a cancerous gene we fear the person who is not a racial/social clone of ourselves

there was a doco on tv about being british ,using sterotype british personalities ,dna testing found them all contaminated genetical with african /asian genetic backgrounds .

in south africa under aparthied ,it was calculated the those classified as afrikaneer ,of dutch stock ,were on average 6%of mixed african black ancestory

thats the reality we are all a racial bastard mix .

there is no purity ,live with it ,find a niche and work for a better world were u may hate a racial group but dare not act that out in your behaviour ,not because the law says racial discrimation is un lawful but because you know it is unacceptable behaviour

[DaoDao]

Hey Sanne,

I must say I only had it the other way around, in Bangkok when we go to areas where there are not many tourist the Thai usually tell him he did a good job[?!] has a lovely wife [so True!!!! ] and that he's lucky [well...haha nvr mnd]

For the foreingers we met, people are very curious to how we' ve met and where we live

I get many questions about how we work things out and if we feel that crosscultural realtionships are harder then others [not always fun since u dont want to be talking about your relationship to everybody all the time but certainly way better than what you describe here!]

Such a shame for people to react like that still in 2008, especially when it' s the Thai reacting like that to eachother!!

Edited June 16, 2008 by DaoDao

[SNGLIFE]

I've observed Thailand follows the general 80/20 rule: 80% of them are racists (or bigots at best), 20% are tolerant. Of the 20%, 80% are accommodating and 20% actually really don't care at all.

I've also observed that those of the darker do hurt because of it, but have endured it for so long that they've resigned themselves to accept it as something they can't ever change - not that they would truly know how being treated as an equal would be anyway...

As shameful and frustrating as it is, it is going to take a social evolution or revolution to get Thais to progress past aesthetics. That said, it won't happen during our lifetime despite the fact that 80% of Thais have 80% of their family who are of the darker color. Shallow as a puddle in a soda cap.

Speaking of shallow; I've seen attitudes change dramatically when Tiger came onto the scene. Being darker actually was in vogue for a couple of years. If Obama becomes the most visible and important man in the free world and leader of the most powerful country...who knows...Thais may look at YOU as the lucky woman.

Best of luck to you both.

[Sheryl]

I suspect that even without you, your BF would get a fair amount of this.

It is very unfortunate but totally true. It is avery rascist society.

There are actually several dynamics at work:

- Chinese hai looking down on Thai-thai (mortly an urban pehnomena. Can actually work in reverse in rural areas)

- Darker skin being equated with lowere socio-economic status and the wealthy looking down on the poor

- Cultural definition of beauty as equalling white (related to the 2 points above)

Thailand is sooner ir later (I fear sooner) going to have see these underlying tensions explode in one fashion or another.

For yourselves, I would avoid places patronized by "upper class" Thais and when in Bangkok stick to less fashionable eateries etc. Let your bf choose them, as his radar for where he will be "accepted" is probably pretty good. Spend more time in the provinces. And try to shrug it off...why care what these people think, it reflects on them.

ood luck

[bratpack]

Good p[ost sheryl.

What is it with thai hi so people that they look down on someone a little darker than themselves,as a sign of no money.Also i feel that some farangs in bk are getting very hi so and are starting to have the same nasty bigot attitude.Is it catching or is the place going crazy.Why dont people get on because of how nice they are rather than how much money they have.

[devona]

The only discrimination I've had since I've been with my Issan boyfriend was in England. We've never had problems anywhere in Thailand.

[SNGLIFE]

It is not limited to the behavior of just hi-so Thais (aka Bangkok Thais).

If you understand Thai and live in or visit the provinces frequently (and are observant), within the first 2 minutes of any conversation (particularly where two people greet each other after having not seen each other in a while), one of them will pay the "compliment" of how much whiter the other has become. It is certainly more frequent when a child is present and they are "complimenting" the child.

I'm talking wooden-shack poor darker country folks. It's firmly established, deep-seated, ingrained perpetuated prejudice; the ingrained habits of a lifetime...

I'll be the one to say it: The more you understand through personal observation - the less you will find to like about them with respect to the subject at hand. Racism and bigotry seems to only be obvious when it is directed at you personally or the ones you love. Otherwise, it is easy to be a casually observant blissfully ignorant foreigner who smiles back as I once was - but could never be again...

Edited June 17, 2008 by SNGLIFE

[bratpack]

SNGLIFE.

Very good post and i am the same as you,i find this bigotry so disgusting and sickening and wonder why more people do not speak out.I feel that farangs DO understand this in bk but choose to ignore it.The amount of posts on here that talk about middle class thais and never speak about their racist remarks to the own people because of colour.

[sbk]

I've had to delete a trollish post, if you don't have anything to contribute to this particular discussion then please don't post off-topic nonsense. thanks

[Flhai]

All so true about the racism. One thing that amazes me is that dark skinned thai that work in "hi so" places or pretty much anywhere also openly discriminate against other dark skinned people. For example in hotels the dark security or reception with be very cautious and speak down to dark thai customers Crazy!

[GaiYaang]

All so true about the racism. One thing that amazes me is that dark skinned thai that work in "hi so" places or pretty much anywhere also openly discriminate against other dark skinned people. For example in hotels the dark security or reception with be very cautious and speak down to dark thai customers Crazy!

Sad and true. Thais think white skinned are more educated, office workers not laborers. When I was a little kid I visited Thailand and a neighbor, a Thai guy dark skinned asked me, if there were a lot of white skinned like me in the USA. It was kind of funny, and I told him YES and they are whiter than me. He's like really.

My sister white skinned and my brother in law dark skinned. He is from Bann Nok. One day my aunt show me their wedding photos, what she pick out from the photo is - my brother in law is TUA-DUM dark skinned.

[mssabai]

It's odd but I have never experienced this and I always stay around Sukhumvit. When I used to go to BKK with my ex - who was fairly dark compared to Bangkokers, but not that dark in the south, we used to get looks, but never unfriendly. Mainly amused actually due to the fact that I like to wear heels in Bangkok and the height difference was quite extreme! With my current boyfriend who is very dark (athough the Thais would describe him as red dark, not black dark), we do get a lot of looks, even on Samui, but it is the farang girl / thai boy mix that interests people and not prejudice towards his colour. He certainly looks Loso - tattoos, dark skin etc, but even in the poshest of restaurants, he is such a natural charmer that usually has the staff laughing and batting their eyelashes by the end of the meal.

Are you sure these looks that you receive are negative? Thais have a very different view of staring as we do in the west - staring through curiosity is completely normal. It would surprise me if that many people are giving negative reactions whilst passing him in the street, just because of his skin colour. There are many many dark skinned Thais in Bangkok. My friend is from a very wealthy Bangkok family yet is very dark.

Just because Thais attain to a lighter skin colour, doesn't mean that they dislike people of that skin colour. They will openly talk about people's negatives as well as their positives - "he's fat", "she's black" etc. Doesn't mean they are trying to be nasty. I am not saying skin colour discrimination doesn't happen here - I am sure it is prevalant in job applications etc. You also have to remember that Thais are often very suspicious of ANYBODY outside their direct circle, dark skinned or light skinned.

[mekongmiss]

Interesting, well I briefly went out with a no good Thai guy who was also part Lao - he said Thai people looked down on Lao people. When we were together people were curious about my age (48) and amazed at how I still looked "pretty". He turned out to be a grade 1 liar with the 2 wives bit - lucky I quit while I was ahead but it was still very painful. I remember how he said he wanted to have a half/half baby with me (think it is a bit late there) as it could become a superstar and he could not doubt live off the earnings - see this all the time on Thai TV - bizarre. Anyway, very sad how people here view this as ideal. At the end of the day I was in it for love and he was there for the money.......

[NotNew2You]

I think most of you are confusing classism with racism. In general, the poor in Thailand tend to be farmers and manual labourers. They tend to have dark skin. I think you are mixing-up discrimination based on class for discrimination based on race. If these darker Thai people were in fact the same economic level of the "whiter" Thais, I doubt they would be discriminated against. Therefore, it's class prejudice rather than racism. While still not a good thing, at least it is based on a non-inherent quality of the person.

As to the comments, put-downs, and additional scrutiny poorer and darker partners receive, I think you would find it the same in any country. It is most unusual for a woman to date or marry "down" in any society. Why would you think it would be any different in Thailand. Also, poor people received additional security in posh stores, hotels, and restaurants the world over.

Edited July 23, 2008 by NotNew2You

[Chaimai]

Is this topic not worthy of the General forum. I would suggest that it is not exclusively a ladies issue. I accept you will get more irrelevant comments but it might actually broaden the discussion.

[Heng]

I think most of you are confusing classism with racism. In general, the poor in Thailand tend to be farmers and manual labourers. They tend to have dark skin. I think you are mixing-up discrimination based on class for discrimination based on race. If these darker Thai people were in fact the same economic level of the "whiter" Thais, I doubt they would be discriminated against. Therefore, it's class prejudice rather than racism. While still not a good thing, at least it is based on a non-inherent quality of the person.

In general, I'd agree with the above.

In a lot of places in the world, Thailand included, racism/prejudice/etc. is hardly just a skin deep issue. IMO it's just PC society that tries to make it such. In reality, it's more like: "I don't inherently dislike your light or dark skin... I dislike that you and your kind tend to be lazy, have poor hygiene, reproduce without regard to to the welfare of your children, and are a general drain on society, etc.... so it's not just your skin color, although yes, your skin color does help me identify you somewhat."

[teej]

I think most of you are confusing classism with racism.

In general, I'd agree with the above.

In a lot of places in the world, Thailand included, racism/prejudice/etc. is hardly just a skin deep issue. IMO it's just PC society that tries to make it such. In reality, it's more like: "I don't inherently dislike your light or dark skin... I dislike that you and your kind tend to be lazy, have poor hygiene, reproduce without regard to to the welfare of your children, and are a general drain on society, etc.... so it's not just your skin color, although yes, your skin color does help me identify you somewhat."

NotNew2You was spot on in his first sentence IMO. The rest of NotNew2You's post I agree with also, though I would have worded it differently. Heng did the job.

Racism in Thailand would be for example the (some/general/majority/ <=besidethepoint) Thai attitude toward continental Indians. All Thais know the cobra/Indian story. The roots of such racism is far too deep to analyze in short script.

"Classism" is what the OP and others are experiencing. "Classism" will manifest itself much more clearly in more homogeneous societies like Thai society. The line is blurred in more heterogeneous societies (USA, for example) and in that case "classism" is often the root of racism. Heng's point about PC society in the West applies here, where "race" (a term not even recognized by many Anthropologists) becomes the scapegoat for other negative attitudes such as "classism."

Further, the phenomena of "discriminations based on color" (here, not "racism") always exhibits the same pattern (light>dark, all else equal). It could include other factors such as the oft-blamed "mass media." Surely Halle Berry or Jessica Alba would not be considered as "attractive" were they the same skin tone as Wesley Snipes? A question posed not because I necessarily believe it, but because it is the general consensus based on all of the factors mentioned (color discrimination, "classism," "racism," "perceptions of beauty," etc.)

The best way to deal with any of the above is to Educate - sadly, Education is often inaccessible or ignored in favor of the status quo.

teej

[Goinghomesoon]

Yes you are right, classism. When staff at a restaurant thought my dark-skinned man was from Oman we got great treatment. The moment they had him pinned as a lower-class Thai (Isaan) the service dropped dramatically. The colour of his skin didn't change but their categorisation of him did and their behaviour changed accordingly.

[Heng]

The best way to deal with any of the above is to Educate - sadly, Education is often inaccessible or ignored in favor of the status quo.

Just to play devil's advocate... Would you say the Nazi's were an uneducated bunch (assuming you don't buy into the Hogan's Heroes portrayal)? What about certain groups of Israelis and how they feel towards Ethiopian Jews? There are plenty of Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese as well who wouldn't exactly qualify as uneducated rednecks who also have a rather supremacist mindset. Or do you think they are just following some status quo?

Edited July 24, 2008 by Heng

[teej]

The best way to deal with any of the above is to Educate - sadly, Education is often inaccessible or ignored in favor of the status quo.

Just to play devil's advocate... Would you say the Nazi's were an uneducated bunch (assuming you don't buy into the Hogan's Heroes portrayal)? What about certain groups of Israelis and how they feel towards Ethiopian Jews? There are plenty of Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese as well who wouldn't exactly qualify as uneducated rednecks who also have a rather supremacist mindset. Or do you think they are just following some status quo?

You've asked a very loaded set of questions, Heng.

I'll simplify, if I may, to what I interpret as your question:

"If Education is the key to eliminating Ignorance, how do you explain Educated people behaving ignorantly?"

Worded in this clever manner, the question becomes almost impossible to answer. Say, for instance, if you just changed the words to ask the question:

"If Being in Love is the key to a Happy Marriage, how do you explain People in Love having an Un-Happy Marriage?"

The very simple answer is external factors. The real answers could be many, and very complex. However, I will try to humor you and go one step further.

I would suggest that the Educated people that you would categorize as behaving ignorantly are in fact not ignorant of their behavior/actions. In fact, they are behaving according to a set of beliefs (incorrect/correct doesn't matter) which are a result of their interpretation of their Education, the effect of their Education (which is an idea I posited in another thread).

Interesting that you should address that issue, as I contemplated an addendum edit to my post to address something similar.

I was going to mention that complex issues such as the ones touched on can end up stuck in a strange circular logic. I was going to end with something like, "... but my Education has never stopped me from discriminating (sarcastic, but also implying that the more you know, the more you know..."

Also, I tend to choose my words carefully usually with a little hidden caveat or vagueness so as to seal up what may be construed as weak points. Touche. As I know you're not taking a piss, I will try to answer your question.

The most important part of Education is the effect of said Education (as I mentioned above and in another thread about English/Thai relationships). Good Educations are not necessarily merely to provide information, but to provide a framework within which to interpret and analyze information. "Learning how to think" if you will. Many great western institutions do exactly this. However, many other educational systems don't necessarily encourage building the framework mentioned, but rather a more "this is fact, accept it no questions asked" approach.

You posed questions re: different groups and different ideas, but I suggest that there is a similarity within/between each case you mentioned: the idea of "supremacy." To be a "supremacist" one must actually believe they they are "supreme." Now there are many ways to come upon this idea, but I would suggest that one can either be "told" they are "supreme" or one can be "taught" a way of thinking that would lead to the conclusion of "supremacy."

Simply, to break it down:

education could consist of being:

"told" x (x = supreme)

"told" -x (-x = not supreme)

"told" y (any other idea)

and Education (note the capitalization in this case, which differentiates the 2 "types" of "education") could consist of being:

"taught" z (z = any framework of thought that could lead one to believe that they are either "supreme," "not supreme," or "any other idea."

If we are focusing just on "education," more specifically "the effects of education," I must simplify the scenarios otherwise each question you posed could be a thesis within itself.

Nazi Germany: The education (lower case) of the moment was fueled by many factors, not the least of which include Propaganda and Manipulation to affect one outcome: World Domination/Elimination of Enemies/insert Evil Idea. As is often the case in War, The Educated (who have chosen their belief based on "z") will (e)ducate whichever group of people whom they (The Educated) deem necessary to further the cause. Tools which The Educated often use are Patriotism and/or Religion.

History of course is a huge factor, but again, I'll eliminate it as a factor in order to focus on the idea of education. I think you could use the above framework to apply to the Israeli/Ethiopian Jew case (though I really don't know anything about that particular case).

As far as the Chinese/Japanese/Korean examples, I would suggest as I did at the start of this post that their "supremacist" beliefs are not from ignorance, but quite the opposite. They believe because they were taught "z" which has led them to the conclusion of "supremacy." Of course this does not make the outcome "right." Take for instance the scenario: Redneck hates blacks. Worldly and liberal PhD student hates blacks also. Two very different cases in which ignorance most likely is the reason for one, while external factors is most likely the reason for the other. Neither is necessarily justifiable, however.

I've confused myself now as I suspected because the question was doomed from the start to result in a circular logic which will always have another answer . I did say I would humor you, Heng, and I think questions like these are a good exercise because they are very difficult, if not impossible, to answer easily. Where are my pills....

If anyone actually read this far, I just want you to know that I made it all up.

[Heng]

You've asked a very loaded set of questions, Heng.

Yeah, well, I have a lot of free time.

I'll simplify, if I may, to what I interpret as your question:

"If Education is the key to eliminating Ignorance, how do you explain Educated people behaving ignorantly?"

Simplify away, although I'd have to add a footnote that says ignorance = not behaving/thinking in line with pretend PC norms

The very simple answer is external factors. The real answers could be many, and very complex. However, I will try to humor you and go one step further.

I am humored, but I'd like to say that *external factors* gives an impression of 3rd party blame, when IMO it's just as likely that prejudiced/racist/classist thoughts can occur just as easily through personal 1st person enlightenment.

I would suggest that the Educated people that you would categorize as behaving ignorantly are in fact not ignorant of their behavior/actions. In fact, they are behaving according to a set of beliefs (incorrect/correct doesn't matter) which are a result of their interpretation of their Education, the effect of their Education (which is an idea I posited in another thread).

Link and cc: please.

I was going to mention that complex issues such as the ones touched on can end up stuck in a strange circular logic. I was going to end with something like, "... but my Education has never stopped me from discriminating (sarcastic, but also implying that the more you know, the more you know..."

I'm with ya' there.

Also, I tend to choose my words carefully usually with a little hidden caveat or vagueness so as to seal up what may be construed as weak points. Touche. As I know you're not taking a piss, I will try to answer your question.

What's that, French?

The most important part of Education is the effect of said Education (as I mentioned above and in another thread about English/Thai relationships). Good Educations are not necessarily merely to provide information, but to provide a framework within which to interpret and analyze information. "Learning how to think" if you will. Many great western institutions do exactly this. However, many other educational systems don't necessarily encourage building the framework mentioned, but rather a more "this is fact, accept it no questions asked" approach.

Frameworks can be overrated.

You posed questions re: different groups and different ideas, but I suggest that there is a similarity within/between each case you mentioned: the idea of "supremacy." To be a "supremacist" one must actually believe they they are "supreme." Now there are many ways to come upon this idea, but I would suggest that one can either be "told" they are "supreme" or one can be "taught" a way of thinking that would lead to the conclusion of "supremacy."

See my *external factors* rebuttle above.

Simply, to break it down:

No need, I'm going to go ahead and delete the stuff that looks like math, besides, I had to take Calculus 2 several times before passing with a C+.

If we are focusing just on "education," more specifically "the effects of education," I must simplify the scenarios otherwise each question you posed could be a thesis within itself.

Nazi Germany: The education (lower case) of the moment was fueled by many factors, not the least of which include Propaganda and Manipulation to affect one outcome: World Domination/Elimination of Enemies/insert Evil Idea. As is often the case in War, The Educated (who have chosen their belief based on "z") will (e)ducate whichever group of people whom they (The Educated) deem necessary to further the cause. Tools which The Educated often use are Patriotism and/or Religion.

History of course is a huge factor, but again, I'll eliminate it as a factor in order to focus on the idea of education. I think you could use the above framework to apply to the Israeli/Ethiopian Jew case (though I really don't know anything about that particular case).

As far as the Chinese/Japanese/Korean examples, I would suggest as I did at the start of this post that their "supremacist" beliefs are not from ignorance, but quite the opposite. They believe because they were taught "z" which has led them to the conclusion of "supremacy." Of course this does not make the outcome "right." Take for instance the scenario: Redneck hates blacks. Worldly and liberal PhD student hates blacks also. Two very different cases in which ignorance most likely is the reason for one, while external factors is most likely the reason for the other. Neither is necessarily justifiable, however.

Thanks for your detailed response, Teej. I think, possibly that it may support my thesis that "education is the key" is a rather generic catch phrase that may have its merits in some instances, but is just as often vague and completely inapplicable.

[teej]

Heng, I answered your first (off-topic) question because I thought you were actually interested in hearing my response.

Now I realize that it didn't matter what I wrote, as you already had your clever quip in your back pocket and were going to use it regardless of what I wrote.

A bit of a prat I'd say to engage a conversation the point of which is just so you can say your end. Insulting, to say the least. And to reply with one-liners reminiscent of TheDon or Farang555 -- well, fitta. I had expected more from you.

Yet another disappointing day on TV.

[Heng]

Heng, I answered your first (off-topic) question because I thought you were actually interested in hearing my response.

Now I realize that it didn't matter what I wrote, as you already had your clever quip in your back pocket and were going to use it regardless of what I wrote.

A bit of a prat I'd say to engage a conversation the point of which is just so you can say your end. Insulting, to say the least.

You'll get over it.

And yes, I was interested in hearing your response and a fair response it was. Although again, IMO a bit 'toss it all in a bag' convenient with the "they were taught" theory. (admittedly my own opinions are fairly general as well)

[NoSpeakIt]

i suggest having custom made shirts that let people know what you think they need to know. or maybe print out pamphlets and pass them out wherever you go.