Another Volunteer Invite

[tipsy]

This time its 'Red Bull' An article within the Chiang Mai City Life Invites us to volunteer our help with the special olympics on the 13th of June at Chiang Mai Municipality Stadium.

A quote from the advert:

'Whatever your interests, background or availability, ou can make a difference. All volunteers are given a brief orientation before the event, and most volunteer posistions are easy to learn. No experiance is required.'

No mention of a work permit, the way it is worded you just show up and work.

Maybe if you are interested in finding the answers to the work permit/volunteer this may help.

There is an email address and website... not sure if i can post it here but PM and i'll pass it on.

Maybe this will give the Mayor a break and the answers can be found here

[sriracha john]

This time its 'Red Bull' An article within the Chiang Mai City Life Invites us to volunteer our help with the special olympics on the 13th of June at Chiang Mai Municipality Stadium.

A quote from the advert:

'Whatever your interests, background or availability, ou can make a difference. All volunteers are given a brief orientation before the event, and most volunteer posistions are easy to learn. No experiance is required.'

No mention of a work permit, the way it is worded you just show up and work.

Maybe if you are interested in finding the answers to the work permit/volunteer this may help.

There is an email address and website... not sure if i can post it here but PM and i'll pass it on.

Maybe this will give the Mayor a break and the answers can be found here

Without the required Work Permit, this would be more factual if it's titled:

Another Volunteer Invite To Work Illegally

Edited June 11, 2008 by sriracha john

[PeaceBlondie]

Maybe this subject could be a discussion in General Topics. Better yet, in the forum for work permits. I don't know, but surely this subject applies to all of Thailand, not just Chiang Mai. If the local people want aliens to help with volunteer projects badly enough, we might encourage influential Thais to petition the legislature to reform the archaic, xenophobic Labour Laws. We can discuss among our alien selves, how to alert the local charities that we would love to help orphans, tourist police, municipal staffs, handicapped and HIV positive Thais, hospitals, etc. That we come from countries where citizens volunteer for these things. That aliens in our countries are not restricted (although I often think such parallels fall on deaf ears).

Oh, and we might remind the Thai leadership that we come from excessively law-abiding cultures (generally), and many of us find Thailand to be bewildering in its approach to obeying Thai law. But if they wish to run Thailand with disregard for Thai law, they may have to do it without help from aliens. Or, they could hire an illegal Burmese to do the job at illegal wage levels.

[sylviex]

Agree with Peace Blondie about having the work permit/volunteering discussion in either the General or Visa sections.

Other regions may have good advice to offer, and the issues are relevant to all of us.

I suggest moving the other thread ("Volunteer Opportunity"), though, as locals readers have had a good chance to absorb anything specific to CM from that thread by now.

[PeaceBlondie]

Moving this topic to Visas, Work Permits, etc., and leaving the Volunteer thread about Chiang Mai in the CMai forum.

[sylviex]

Thanks, PeaceBlondie.

Re the OP : is this an article or an advertisement ? is CityLife or some other group making the invitation ?

[sylviex]

To all : we have been having a discussion in the Chiang Mai subforum about work permits and the possibilty of exemption for the requirement for a work permit for volunteer work.

You can see the discussion at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=192766 if you're interested.

Interested to hear your thoughts and experiences.

[tipsy]

Thanks, PeaceBlondie.

Re the OP : is this an article or an advertisement ? is CityLife or some other group making the invitation ?

Advert... Full page by w w w red bull spirit . org

[astral]

Any work performed by a foreigner without a Work Permit is illegal.

[sriracha john]

Any work performed by a foreigner without a Work Permit is illegal.

The Chiang Mai thread as well as all the farang volunteer police threads don't seem to think so.

Edited June 13, 2008 by sriracha john

[lopburi3]

There are blind eyes, as with most laws, but when push comes to shove you do not want to be depending on that.

[mijan24]

Lopburi 3 that is very very true but it would also be correct to say there are some posters who need to take a big happy pill every now and then.

Edited June 13, 2008 by mijan24

[HarryHacker]

On the whole, these volunteers would not get a work permit simply on the grounds they are not qualified to do such work. That is why they have to work illegally and risk deportation etc.

I guess 'why do they do it?' should be discussed elsewhere.

[PeaceBlondie]

These volunteer projects (tourist police; teaching business English to municipal employees, orphans, students in govt. schools; maybe unskilled nursing attending; etc.), require some skills, but the beggars (often, the government itself!) cannot be very choosy, since they are paying nothing but intangible influence. As for qualifications, the Labour Laws may not permit aliens to do volunteer work that Thais can perform. Thai requirements may not be as strict as foreign laws are. I cannot teach back home, but I can teach legally here (if they would just give me a work permit!).

[klikster]

Lopburi 3 that is very very true but it would also be correct to say there are some posters who need to take a big happy pill every now and then.

.. know when enough is enough.

[PeaceBlondie]

Here is a link to my report of my meeting with a coordinator of a volunteer project in Chiang Mai, post #149

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry2031396

[sylviex]

On the whole, these volunteers would not get a work permit simply on the grounds they are not qualified to do such work. That is why they have to work illegally and risk deportation etc.

I guess 'why do they do it?' should be discussed elsewhere.

Why not discuss that here ?

It must be an underlying issue.

The Chiang Mai Friends Group are targetting retirees. Their website offers the idea of voluntary work as an attractive and meaningful part of retired life. (But fails to mention the legal issues, and few would assume the work permit requirement for volunteer work.)

I am in favour of keeping checks on volunteers, most especially where children are involved, but see a need to change the form this takes.

Why shouldn't retirees do voluntary work ?

Why shouldn't people on volunteer visas do paid work ?

Why shouldn't people on work visas do volunteer work ?

[Briggsy]

Does the advert specify foreign nationals?

[Mosha]

As the poster of a topic on an approach from the Tourist Police, here is what I learned this week. We went to re register the wife's Burmese labourer at the Ministry of Employment office in Ranong and I asked her to ask about volunteer unpaid work. Your "employers", she tells me, are supposed to go to immigration to guarantee you are not being paid.

[sylviex]

As the poster of a topic on an approach from the Tourist Police, here is what I learned this week. We went to re register the wife's Burmese labourer at the Ministry of Employment office in Ranong and I asked her to ask about volunteer unpaid work. Your "employers", she tells me, are supposed to go to immigration to guarantee you are not being paid.

Mosha, on the Chiang Mai thread there are a few comments from a bloke who got his own Work Permit to work as a teacher (though later did so via Volunteer Foundations). He might have some good advice.

Re Red Bull : the ad was in English in an English-language magazine. They may be inviting Thais elsewhere, but that particular ad did seem directed at expats. By the way, there's no *concrete* reason so far to think Red Bull might not be offering to get Work Permits for the volunteers, but as pointed out above by another poster, the wording of the ad certainly does suggest something of a carefree approach . It occurred to me that a need for WP's may never have entered their heads.

Edited June 14, 2008 by sylviex

[Mario2008]

As the poster of a topic on an approach from the Tourist Police, here is what I learned this week. We went to re register the wife's Burmese labourer at the Ministry of Employment office in Ranong and I asked her to ask about volunteer unpaid work. Your "employers", she tells me, are supposed to go to immigration to guarantee you are not being paid.

Requiring a visa and WP based on volunteer work It isn't that simple. Both immigration and labour department want to see some paperwork and not only a statement that you don't get paid. (The organization can give you some money for you expenses, like for coffee, lunch, and travelexpenses).

What you will need is a volunteer contract, a map showing where you live, work schedule etc. As I my self teach as a volunteer I also need a degree, but I'm not sure if that realy is a requirement for a volunteer teacher or the labour office just think it is right because teachers need one so a volunteer teacher also. It might not be a formal requirement.

[PeaceBlondie]

Re Red Bull : the ad was in English in an English-language magazine. They may be inviting Thais elsewhere, but that particular ad did seem directed at expats. By the way, there's no *concrete* reason so far to think Red Bull might not be offering to get Work Permits for the volunteers, but as pointed out above by another poster, the wording of the ad certainly does suggest something of a carefree approach . It occurred to me that a need for WP's may never have entered their heads.

That Red Bull event was yesterday, a very short-lived promotion.

If the Thai 'employers' are targeting aliens, they have no excuse for being ignorant of Thai law about WP's. They probably know full well that it takes a lot of time and effort to get a work permit, and have no intention of doing the effort. They knowingly, purposely violate the rules of their beloved Kingdom, believing that real Thais do not follow Thai law. Flexibility, Thai customs, mai bpen rai, wai not.

It seems to my small mind that the voluntary organizations are so blinded to the goodness of their good works that they cannot see the rest of the picture. It is illegal for foreigners to do charitable work. Foreigners do not want to jeopardize their life in Thailand. If the Thai organizations cannot understand that, they are not engaging in cultural exchange. There is a saying in Rome: "When in Rome, foreigners do not act exactly like Romans." IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW GOOD THE CHARITABLE WORK IS, if it is illegal. It is a crime, not good work.

Corection and clarification: it may not be a crime. But good aliens think it is a crime here. Therefore, to them, it is a crime. Period, full stop,

[sylviex]

Good point, Peace Blondie. I was thinking Red Bull was foreign-owned but seems it is Thai, as Special Olympics Thailand would be.

Agree; no way they'd not be aware of the WP situation.

Makes the name "Red Bull" very fitting. (Ahem.)

Edited June 14, 2008 by sylviex

[sriracha john]

Red Bull's owner is a Forbes-listed US Dollar Billionaire. Surely he can afford the work permit fees.

Edited June 14, 2008 by sriracha john

[PeaceBlondie]

Red Bull's owner is a Forbes-listed US Dollar Billionaire. Surely he can afford the work permit fees.

No, not really. He can afford the money, but not the effort. He may be worth a billion US dollars, but I believe he is Thai.

Thinking back to my conversation yesterday, the volunteer coordinator (who is Thai) kept justifying her illegal activities by merit. If it brings merit, it is good, regardless. I dared not tell her that apparently, she is violating Thai law, personally. She has no fear of Thai law in this instance, because she has relationships with powerful Thais. She seemed to say if she does enough of this illegal activity, it will prove to the Thai government that they should change the law. No, it may only show that nam jai Thais are illegal.

[sylviex]

"Merit" being another word for money ...

[sriracha john]

Red Bull's owner is a Forbes-listed US Dollar Billionaire. Surely he can afford the work permit fees.

No, not really. He can afford the money, but not the effort. He may be worth a billion US dollars, but I believe he is Thai.

Sorry, my bad for not reiterating in my post that he is Thai... and he's worth a whole bunch of baht in my previous thread (which I should have linked earlier):

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=173095&st=

Forbes Billionaire Inventors List Includes A Thai, worth 128,004,089,355 Thai Baht

Thinking back to my conversation yesterday, the volunteer coordinator (who is Thai) kept justifying her illegal activities by merit. If it brings merit, it is good, regardless. I dared not tell her that apparently, she is violating Thai law, personally. She has no fear of Thai law in this instance, because she has relationships with powerful Thais. She seemed to say if she does enough of this illegal activity, it will prove to the Thai government that they should change the law. No, it may only show that nam jai Thais are illegal.

and of course it's up to her to decide what is and what is not tham boon dee (good deeds)... such as whether or not her businesses are involved with the effort.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Red Bull's owner is a Forbes-listed US Dollar Billionaire. Surely he can afford the work permit fees.

No, not really. He can afford the money, but not the effort. He may be worth a billion US dollars, but I believe he is Thai.

Thinking back to my conversation yesterday, the volunteer coordinator (who is Thai) kept justifying her illegal activities by merit. If it brings merit, it is good, regardless. I dared not tell her that apparently, she is violating Thai law, personally. She has no fear of Thai law in this instance, because she has relationships with powerful Thais. She seemed to say if she does enough of this illegal activity, it will prove to the Thai government that they should change the law. No, it may only show that nam jai Thais are illegal.

He is a Thai for sure PB.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Red Bull's owner is a Forbes-listed US Dollar Billionaire. Surely he can afford the work permit fees.

No, not really. He can afford the money, but not the effort. He may be worth a billion US dollars, but I believe he is Thai.

Thinking back to my conversation yesterday, the volunteer coordinator (who is Thai) kept justifying her illegal activities by merit. If it brings merit, it is good, regardless. I dared not tell her that apparently, she is violating Thai law, personally. She has no fear of Thai law in this instance, because she has relationships with powerful Thais. She seemed to say if she does enough of this illegal activity, it will prove to the Thai government that they should change the law. No, it may only show that nam jai Thais are illegal.

[PeaceBlondie]

Since my statement which is partly in error has been quoted a few times here, let me correct it. I believe, based on the English that I heard, that Khun Boon was doing what we farang would call "justifying." To me, she appeared to be saying that her good works had such a good nature that the illegality did not really matter. But I am often mistaken, since I am not Thai, do not speak Thai, and have only lived here full time for five years. She spoke quite well of her farang friends who have been here up to forty years, speak the language fluently, etc. Maybe we have to become completely Thaied to understand. Meanwhile, I have this quaint Western concept that foreigners in a strange land should obey the law. Really. Actually. Even when the law prohibits them from doing good work. What an alien concept!