Would You Suggest I Buy Now Or Wait?

[wabear]

I will likely retire outside of US, partly because of the cost of living in US, but mostly because I want to. I will eventually get both my Social Security and Private Pension, roughly $2000 US per month.

The odds are good I'll retire in LOS, but it's not for sure. With all the expertise here, I'm curious about some options I'm considering. Retirement is 10-15 years away.

1) Don't buy a condo in Thailand. Save as much money as I can and rent for a while after I retire. Maybe never buy, just rent.

2) Buy something not too expensive, say around 1-2 million Baht. Use it when I visit Thailand. Sell if I decide later not to retire in Thailand. Could I safely rent it out to cover part of the payment? Would a condo in this price range likely turn into a slum?

3) Look around and find a good buy on a higher end unit. What price range does it take to reasonably find a building that will survive 30-40 years?

4) Bangok? Chaing Mai? Pattaya?

I'm curious.......

[nihilnisibene]

Buy something not too expensive, say around 1-2 million Baht. Use it when I visit Thailand. Sell if I decide later not to retire in Thailand. Could I safely rent it out to cover part of the payment? Would a condo in this price range likely turn into a slum?

-------

You can rest assured that it will not turn into a slum. It is already a slum.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

10 to 15 years away. Hide and watch, I don't think you will find many seriously willing to forecast out that far. Opinion 1 year out are debatable. Save you $ watch it grow for 10 to 15 years.

[mauiguy90]

I will likely retire outside of US, partly because of the cost of living in US, but mostly because I want to. I will eventually get both my Social Security and Private Pension, roughly $2000 US per month.

The odds are good I'll retire in LOS, but it's not for sure. With all the expertise here, I'm curious about some options I'm considering. Retirement is 10-15 years away.

1) Don't buy a condo in Thailand. Save as much money as I can and rent for a while after I retire. Maybe never buy, just rent.

2) Buy something not too expensive, say around 1-2 million Baht. Use it when I visit Thailand. Sell if I decide later not to retire in Thailand. Could I safely rent it out to cover part of the payment? Would a condo in this price range likely turn into a slum?

3) Look around and find a good buy on a higher end unit. What price range does it take to reasonably find a building that will survive 30-40 years?

4) Bangok? Chaing Mai? Pattaya?

I'm curious.......

Think its a good idea to wait awhile until dollar strengthens (hopefully) to at least 35-36 baht per dollar. At the same time, the condo market appears to be quite saturated and prices of newer units have a chance of dropping. The combination of these two factors may make it possible to buy a unit in a decent area for 2.5-3 million baht. i.e. I got my condo at $75K when the baht was 40 to the dollar. Then that was 3 million baht--now its only about 2.4 million baht.(This is only an example...the dollar may not hit 40 baht for a long time, if ever...)

Buying a cheaper unit might seem like a good idea until you have to rent it out. Then you will find out that it is not easy to rent a unit that is outside of the central areas, and probably just as hard to find a reliable agent who can manage the condo for you.

[alive555]

Absolutely no thought required - 100% RENT.

The rentals you can find will make it very affordable, you dont have to find a tenant to occupy it while your are not there, and you can decide whether u want to stay in BKK Pattaya or Samui or Phuket etc.

[Gary A]

Save your money and worry about it when you have firm plans. No one knows what is going to happen even in the near future. I would expect the baht to continue to weaken due to the inept government.

[quiksilva]

Wait until you know exactly what you to do. If you are sure you'll retire here, great come out rent a while while to be sure you like it. Then buy a home.

Its investment value should be separate consideration.

[klikster]

IMO, the 3 posts above .. alive555, Gary, quicksilva .. offer the best advice for your situation.

Never buy unless you have lived in the area, preferably for at least 1 year full time. That's how you get to know about things like water shortages, high season traffic, neighborhoods, trends, etc.

[donx]

Go with your option 1) to rent for a while after you retire.

[backflip]

"Absolutely no thought required - 100% RENT."

Another thoughless post. Perhaps, after thinking about it, you might come to a different conclusion.

Since you don't know when or where you're going to retire, buying a condo in a country in which you don't live would be a mistake. I lived in BKK for almost a year before I bought a condo and, as others have mentioned, suggest you do the same.

[london]

I will likely retire outside of US, partly because of the cost of living in US, but mostly because I want to. I will eventually get both my Social Security and Private Pension, roughly $2000 US per month.

The odds are good I'll retire in LOS, but it's not for sure. With all the expertise here, I'm curious about some options I'm considering. Retirement is 10-15 years away.

1) Don't buy a condo in Thailand. Save as much money as I can and rent for a while after I retire. Maybe never buy, just rent.

2) Buy something not too expensive, say around 1-2 million Baht. Use it when I visit Thailand. Sell if I decide later not to retire in Thailand. Could I safely rent it out to cover part of the payment? Would a condo in this price range likely turn into a slum?

3) Look around and find a good buy on a higher end unit. What price range does it take to reasonably find a building that will survive 30-40 years?

4) Bangok? Chaing Mai? Pattaya?

I'm curious.......

Hi Wabear,

IF I make the assumption that you will be 60 when you retire (or slightly older), may I make the following comments:

1) are you saying that you expect to get $2000US monthly pension when you retire in 10-15 years time? If so, you will have problems living anywhere (even if inflation rises between now and then at 3%pa...your spending power will be the same as approximately $1000 now) let alone Thailand. Start planning seriously for your retirement needs NOW.

If you are saying that you will have the equivalent of $2,000US in todays money, then frankly, you'll be OK but not living a life of luxury.

2) Have you actually stayed in Thailand for any length of time? ie: 3, 6 or 9 months? If not, you are looking at Thailand with rose coloured glasses. When you live in any country, not just Thailand, you cease to be a tourist.....you become a resident and with that you have all the associated costs that go with it: rent, electricity, gas, water etc. You must plan ahead for that and be aware that your $2000 will not go that far.

3) IF you HAVE already spent time here in Thailand AND you want to retire here...then your biggest expense will either be rent or mortgage. If you have 10-15years ahead of you, despite what many posters advise, BUY. It doesn't matter if you buy now or buy in 6 months time...just BUY! In 10 years, you'll most likely pay off the mortgage and your living will be that much cheaper. Also, you will have an asset.

4) 1-2 mil baht is a slum. Sorry, it is! Start thinking around 4 mil for something decent. If you have any intention of living there, then you should live in a safe, secure and high standard condominium. At 1-2 mil, you won't get any of that. Oh, and if you decide to rent it out, you'll find you get a better class of tenant (and the likelihood of actually getting paid the rent) and the benefit of something that YOU would want to live in. Hey, you have 10-15 years in front of you to pay it off.....just do it!

5) Where? Well, thats totally up to what you want from your retirement lifestyle. Remember too, places, particularly holiday locales, can change dramatically in 10 years, let alone 15 or 20. So choose carefully.

Finally, I am really supportive of what you are intending...however, being underfunded in retirement is not the recipe for a happy life.

Make the decision either "yes" or "no". If "yes", commit to a good quality condo around 4 mil MINIMUM in a well managed building and in a good area. If you need to sell it down the track, well, you can.

Remember too, that Asia will be the economic powerhouse of the world in 10 years time...and that will also add to your costs here.

Good luck!

Edited June 17, 2008 by london

[lardy]

You can rest assured that it will not turn into a slum. It is already a slum.

your'e talking out of your ass!!

[lardy]

"4) 1-2 mil baht is a slum. Sorry, it is! Start thinking around 4 mil for something decent. If you have any intention of living there, then you should live in a safe, secure and high standard condominium. At 1-2 mil, you won't get any of that"

Rubbish it isn't you can get some nice places near the bts well managed for that price range.

[london]

"4) 1-2 mil baht is a slum. Sorry, it is! Start thinking around 4 mil for something decent. If you have any intention of living there, then you should live in a safe, secure and high standard condominium. At 1-2 mil, you won't get any of that"

Rubbish it isn't you can get some nice places near the bts well managed for that price range.

Lardy, I'm interested in your comment.

For the benefit of my information: please name these nice places near the bts, well managed, for 1.5 mill. I'd just like to see them. If you are correct, I would be lining up to buy one or two. However, we may have a different interpretation of the word "nice".

But I'm always open to learn something new.

[glyph]

"At 1-2 mil, you won't get any of that..."

Of course you can. What you won't get is a "big" unit. At 50KTHB/meter, for example, you're looking at a 20-40 sqm unit. This might be perfect for a pied-a-terre.

[lardy]

"At 1-2 mil, you won't get any of that..."

Of course you can. What you won't get is a "big" unit. At 50KTHB/meter, for example, you're looking at a 20-40 sqm unit. This might be perfect for a pied-a-terre.

Yes thats correct you wont get big but studios for 1.5 are there and reasonable quality in a well mainatined buidling.

[Gravelrash]

The OP stated BKK-Chiang Mai-Pattaya. In Chiang Mai you can certainly buy a nice condo for 2 million with all the facilities, it is the 300,000 range that are slummy. He would have to suffer through less traffic and bars though.

[pkrv]

I will likely retire outside of US, partly because of the cost of living in US, but mostly because I want to. I will eventually get both my Social Security and Private Pension, roughly $2000 US per month.

The odds are good I'll retire in LOS, but it's not for sure. With all the expertise here, I'm curious about some options I'm considering. Retirement is 10-15 years away.

1) Don't buy a condo in Thailand. Save as much money as I can and rent for a while after I retire. Maybe never buy, just rent.

2) Buy something not too expensive, say around 1-2 million Baht. Use it when I visit Thailand. Sell if I decide later not to retire in Thailand. Could I safely rent it out to cover part of the payment? Would a condo in this price range likely turn into a slum?

3) Look around and find a good buy on a higher end unit. What price range does it take to reasonably find a building that will survive 30-40 years?

4) Bangok? Chaing Mai? Pattaya?

I'm curious.......

Hi Wabear,

IF I make the assumption that you will be 60 when you retire (or slightly older), may I make the following comments:

1) are you saying that you expect to get $2000US monthly pension when you retire in 10-15 years time? If so, you will have problems living anywhere (even if inflation rises between now and then at 3%pa...your spending power will be the same as approximately $1000 now) let alone Thailand. Start planning seriously for your retirement needs NOW.

If you are saying that you will have the equivalent of $2,000US in todays money, then frankly, you'll be OK but not living a life of luxury.

2) Have you actually stayed in Thailand for any length of time? ie: 3, 6 or 9 months? If not, you are looking at Thailand with rose coloured glasses. When you live in any country, not just Thailand, you cease to be a tourist.....you become a resident and with that you have all the associated costs that go with it: rent, electricity, gas, water etc. You must plan ahead for that and be aware that your $2000 will not go that far.

3) IF you HAVE already spent time here in Thailand AND you want to retire here...then your biggest expense will either be rent or mortgage. If you have 10-15years ahead of you, despite what many posters advise, BUY. It doesn't matter if you buy now or buy in 6 months time...just BUY! In 10 years, you'll most likely pay off the mortgage and your living will be that much cheaper. Also, you will have an asset.

4) 1-2 mil baht is a slum. Sorry, it is! Start thinking around 4 mil for something decent. If you have any intention of living there, then you should live in a safe, secure and high standard condominium. At 1-2 mil, you won't get any of that. Oh, and if you decide to rent it out, you'll find you get a better class of tenant (and the likelihood of actually getting paid the rent) and the benefit of something that YOU would want to live in. Hey, you have 10-15 years in front of you to pay it off.....just do it!

5) Where? Well, thats totally up to what you want from your retirement lifestyle. Remember too, places, particularly holiday locales, can change dramatically in 10 years, let alone 15 or 20. So choose carefully.

Finally, I am really supportive of what you are intending...however, being underfunded in retirement is not the recipe for a happy life.

Make the decision either "yes" or "no". If "yes", commit to a good quality condo around 4 mil MINIMUM in a well managed building and in a good area. If you need to sell it down the track, well, you can.

Remember too, that Asia will be the economic powerhouse of the world in 10 years time...and that will also add to your costs here.

Good luck!

You know this is one shit hot post! Whilst I do not understand how it is so many people who cannot even afford a western car know anything outside of their local village - 'muck on the wode'. How odd it has been. Perhaps they gravitate towards poverty? - they might not quite find that in that quite so much abundance in future?

Edited June 19, 2008 by pkrv

[SNGLIFE]

Having spent several years in Thailand myself, IMHO you should plan to rent at least 2 years. That is about how long it takes to become "local". Once you are local (i.e. *officially* an ex-pat), the rose colored glasses come off and you would be in a better frame of mind to decide exactly what you want to do and where long-term.

For example, the posts of wheather or not a 1-2 mill place is a slum is TOTALLY dependent upon whether you are talking about places like BKK, Pattaya, etc., or Nong Khai, Surin, etc. You may eventually conclude, like many ex-pats, after renting in the large cities that an off the beaten path town is where you want to spend your years. Same folks, less hassle to some of us.

Edited June 19, 2008 by SNGLIFE

[eljeque]

I will likely retire outside of US, partly because of the cost of living in US, but mostly because I want to. I will eventually get both my Social Security and Private Pension, roughly $2000 US per month.

The odds are good I'll retire in LOS, but it's not for sure. With all the expertise here, I'm curious about some options I'm considering. Retirement is 10-15 years away.

Is $2,000 / month th amount in 15 years, or th amount now, and there will be cost-of-living increases over the next 15 years. $2,000 in 15 years is about $1,000 today which is not enough to comfortably live in Pattaya/Bangkok for 95% of the foreigners here.

1) Don't buy a condo in Thailand. Save as much money as I can and rent for a while after I retire. Maybe never buy, just rent.

Do not buy property if you do not live here. The idea that month after month you will be able to keep it rented and not get it trashed, and that the month to month rent will be a good return on your investment, is a risk bet. I think that in 10-15 years, prices will definitely go up a great deal in both dollars and baht, but you could invest elsewhere with less risk and worry. AND when something goes wrong like a tenant trashes the place and new furniture needs to be bought, you will not have to fly out to take care of it. The only thing the agents take care of is themselves. Deposits go missing, the agents are not bonded, etc.

2) Buy something not too expensive, say around 1-2 million Baht. Use it when I visit Thailand.

This means it is not being used when you are not here.... for about 10 months of the year. So, 10 months of the year you are receiving no return on your investment other than some price increases in the property which should rise with inflation.

Sell if I decide later not to retire in Thailand.

Property in Thailand is an illiquid investment. It is like a rare coin. It may be worth $1,000 to a collector, but it is worth only the metal content to the average joe. Finding someone who likes your property when there are so many properties available and many of them just like yours, is going to be a difficult task. I have sold a lot of houses of my own and for friends and it is NO FUN!!!

Could I safely rent it out to cover part of the payment?

Yes you could rent it out. NO it would not be SAFE.

There is no payment. You cannot get a loan. The payment plans offered by condo companies are throughout the build period, they are not property loans.

Would a condo in this price range likely turn into a slum?

It depends on where it is located. And, I have seen fo 20 years that over reasoably short period of time, most everything degrades here. That does not mean it will be a "slum". It does mean that what you thought was going to be bright and beautiful is no longer what you believed, and the next condo building going up is still new and appears as the brochures present it. Condos and housing developments, like cars, become used over time. Used item prices are less than new item prices. HOusing developments and condo buildings are not well maintained, and the management steals large amounts of the money for its own purposes. Don't think there are laws to protect you and that they will be enforced.

3) Look around and find a good buy on a higher end unit. What price range does it take to reasonably find a building that will survive 30-40 years?

The building wil not fall donw, but you have to have a building manager who is competent and above board. That is difficult to find. And, even if the buiilding is well cared for for 7 years, the management company may be bought out and a new manager comes in and does nothing to care for the building.

4) Bangok? Chaing Mai? Pattaya?

Live in each one for a while during all seasons.

I'm curious.......

I think you would be dollars ahead and have less headaches if you continued to invest elsewhere until you are ready to retire. At that point in time, you will have the time to perform more thorough research.

I have owned 7 houses here and made a good profit on every one of them but one, which I sold back to the developer as he never finished it. I will rent from now on as rent her is really cheap in comparison to the cost of the units.

[eljeque]

FOR PRICES: for 1.8M there are new condos (64 meters) going up 800 meters from Jomtien beach off Soi Chaiyapruk, or for 1M there are other 32 meter condos being built on Soi Watboon in Jomtien.

If you have to own property now, because it is in your bood, consider buying a property fund investment.

Being an absentee owner OVERSEAS is no fun.

[london]

Just a quick addendum:

firstly, thank your PKRV for your kind comments.

Also, I believe now that it IS possible to purchase a quality unit under 2 mill. Lardy (see post above) has been very helpful in providing information and, I must say contrary to my experience here, it IS possible to purchase a good apartment here for under 2 mill. Many thanks for your information Lardy.

However, I am sure that Lardy too would agree: be VERY careful.

I note too a number of posts are suggesting that you rent. Frankly, at at least a 7 - 12% return on the cost of the apartment, renting is expensive. When you retire, you will not have the income to purchase...particularly if my assumptions are correct that Asia will be the world's economic powerhouse.

Anyway, thats your call.

Thanks you again PKRV and Lardy. Appreciated.

[dotcom]

In 10 or 15 years $2000 won't be enough to live on. Double that amount will let you live like a monk.

[london]

In 10 or 15 years $2000 won't be enough to live on. Double that amount will let you live like a monk.

Yes, I agree....however, this fact tends to scare many people.

[kanderson]

Buy on a dip - like right now. A condo at View Talay 1B is about the same as buying a car. It's a fun and easy place to live - or rent it out. Nice place to retire - nice people and huge swimming pool. I rented there before I bought.

With $2,000 a month you will be more than fine. (I'm married so ? )

Like others have said - good idea to rent first to see if it's OK. that's what I did. I got in 2 years ago. I feel so good about it - instead of a new car or something. I retire in about 6 years.

I really doubt the Baht will go any higher than 33.

You could get any of the condo's available at View Talay 1A or 1B - foriegn name for about $30,000 (dreaming) to about $35,000. I bought mine from a French guy using Fair Properties.

Some guys feel it might be a slum - or might go down (something). I like it there and lots of others just like me who own several units. The risk is minimal to me. Originally I was going to buy in Bangkok or Puket. Jumtien is a really nice place overall - and easy to rent out too. Also close to my Mother in Laws place.

I'm the guy who can't save money - so when I had enough to buy - I did it.

Again - as others have said - rent there for a few months first. I rented my unit out for one year as we have our 2nd baby coming. My Thai Wife has given me my Boy - and now a Girl coming soon.

Hey - if you have some cash - and your like me - buy on a dip. I really don't think the dollar will get stronger than 33 anytime soon. I jumped in at 38 per dollar. Who cares - just buy. It's like having a new car - located in Thailand - not much risk.

A free and clear title to your own small condo is a nice thing. Mine is 38 Sq meters. I did rent at View Talay 1 - and sat by the huge pool for a couple months - looking at the contruction etc.. It dosn't look like it's screwed up to me. I've spent about 1.5 years in Thailand so far. It seems so inexpensive - I live in Hawaii.

if the Baht goes higher than 33 - I'll eat my hat. I was used to 40++ - -- but it came from 25 - before 1998. Inflation is more of a reason to buy.

Political uncertinty - resession. Buy on a dip. I believe the baht should be around 28 right now.

However - don't buy a condo to make a profit - not that that's so bad. Buy and hold.

I'll never sell.

Good luck (choke Dee)

[london]

Buy on a dip - like right now. A condo at View Talay 1B is about the same as buying a car. It's a fun and easy place to live - or rent it out. Nice place to retire - nice people and huge swimming pool. I rented there before I bought.

With $2,000 a month you will be more than fine. (I'm married so ? )

Like others have said - good idea to rent first to see if it's OK. that's what I did. I got in 2 years ago. I feel so good about it - instead of a new car or something. I retire in about 6 years.

I really doubt the Baht will go any higher than 33.

You could get any of the condo's available at View Talay 1A or 1B - foriegn name for about $30,000 (dreaming) to about $35,000. I bought mine from a French guy using Fair Properties.

Some guys feel it might be a slum - or might go down (something). I like it there and lots of others just like me who own several units. The risk is minimal to me. Originally I was going to buy in Bangkok or Puket. Jumtien is a really nice place overall - and easy to rent out too. Also close to my Mother in Laws place.

I'm the guy who can't save money - so when I had enough to buy - I did it.

Again - as others have said - rent there for a few months first. I rented my unit out for one year as we have our 2nd baby coming. My Thai Wife has given me my Boy - and now a Girl coming soon.

Hey - if you have some cash - and your like me - buy on a dip. I really don't think the dollar will get stronger than 33 anytime soon. I jumped in at 38 per dollar. Who cares - just buy. It's like having a new car - located in Thailand - not much risk.

A free and clear title to your own small condo is a nice thing. Mine is 38 Sq meters. I did rent at View Talay 1 - and sat by the huge pool for a couple months - looking at the contruction etc.. It dosn't look like it's screwed up to me. I've spent about 1.5 years in Thailand so far. It seems so inexpensive - I live in Hawaii.

if the Baht goes higher than 33 - I'll eat my hat. I was used to 40++ - -- but it came from 25 - before 1998. Inflation is more of a reason to buy.

Political uncertinty - resession. Buy on a dip. I believe the baht should be around 28 right now.

However - don't buy a condo to make a profit - not that that's so bad. Buy and hold.

I'll never sell.

Good luck (choke Dee)

Dear Kanderson,

an honest and practical post that should be really helpful to wabear.

Wabear, you have had a lot of good advice in this post (and hopefully others too!). Really, if you put it all together, you have a formula to set yourself up nicely here for your later years.

JUST DO IT !!

Regards

[Marvo]

Dear Kanderson,

an honest and practical post that should be really helpful to wabear.

Wabear, you have had a lot of good advice in this post (and hopefully others too!). Really, if you put it all together, you have a formula to set yourself up nicely here for your later years.

JUST DO IT !!

Regards

So from a concensus, that formula would be... work your ass off for your pension, to keep ahead of inflation, until your target retirement date. Then hope that you don't drop down dead from the stress, before having a chance to enjoy the friuts of your lifetime's labour.

I think I'll keep on doing the lottery in the meantime , just in case.

[london]

So from a concensus, that formula would be... work your ass off for your pension, to keep ahead of inflation, until your target retirement date. Then hope that you don't drop down dead from the stress, before having a chance to enjoy the friuts of your lifetime's labour.

I think I'll keep on doing the lottery in the meantime , just in case.

"work your ass off for your pension"......obviously, because with $2000 as income based 10-15 years ahead, wabear will need to !

"to keep ahead of inflation"......and the only way to do that is to actually BUY !

"until your target retirement date"......which may or may not have to be extended based on the decisions wabear makes now......

"Then hope that you don't drop down dead from the stress, before having a chance to enjoy the friuts of your lifetime's labour".......isn't that true for ALL of us ?

Good luck in the lottery !!!

[lardy]

Just a quick addendum:

firstly, thank your PKRV for your kind comments.

Also, I believe now that it IS possible to purchase a quality unit under 2 mill. Lardy (see post above) has been very helpful in providing information and, I must say contrary to my experience here, it IS possible to purchase a good apartment here for under 2 mill. Many thanks for your information Lardy.

However, I am sure that Lardy too would agree: be VERY careful.

I note too a number of posts are suggesting that you rent. Frankly, at at least a 7 - 12% return on the cost of the apartment, renting is expensive. When you retire, you will not have the income to purchase...particularly if my assumptions are correct that Asia will be the world's economic powerhouse.

Anyway, thats your call.

Thanks you again PKRV and Lardy. Appreciated.

[Heng]

Unless you have property assets and other fixed income streams (other than your SS benefits) back home that you didn't mention, IMO rent first, buy later (if at all).