Grammar Question

[hlfourie]

Can somebody please tell me if it would be grammatically correct to say the following sentence :

He had stolen the money just now. It is the "just now" that I am actually questioning.

Thank you kindly

[mopenyang]

IMHO, it is not grammatically correct given that it is inconsistent with the definition and accepted usage of the past perfect tense:

http://grammar.about.com/od/pq/g/pastperfecterm.htm

Edited June 25, 2008 by mopenyang

[withnail]

There is probably no need to use the past perfect in that example. The past perfect is usually used to indicate that something happened before a time already in the past, not to give a past reason for a present situation.

My guess is that the action described above happened "just now", therefore the correct sentence would be: "He stole the money just now".

If the action happened before 'just now' then why not just state the time it did happen e.g. "He stole the money an hour ago."

The only reason you would use the past perfect is if talking about another event in the past as well e.g. "When he asked Sarah she said that he had stolen the money." In this case though it is unlikely that the time phrase "just now" would be appropriate.

Edited June 25, 2008 by withnail

[PeaceBlondie]

I agree with both responses. "Just now" applies to the present, not the past. Reference to the past, if a time reference is needed to show close proximity to a past event, might be "just then" or "right at that time."

It appears to be a sentence dreamed up by a non-native speaker, such as a Thai teacher of English who at that time just did not realize that she had stolen the language.

[oldtimer]

I agree with both responses. "Just now" applies to the present, not the past. Reference to the past, if a time reference is needed to show close proximity to a past event, might be "just then" or "right at that time."

It appears to be a sentence dreamed up by a non-native speaker, such as a Thai teacher of English who at that time just did not realize that she had stolen the language.

Agreed. But....if you add 'She said that' on the front it is perfectly correct, because reported speech can have that backshift in tenses where simple past becomes past perfect.

:-)

[Ijustwannateach]

^That's just what I was thinking- it could be ok as reported speech.

[5tash]

^That's just what I was thinking- it could be ok as reported speech.

In that case, it would be a report of somebody speaking incorrectly.

[withnail]

As reported speech, possible, but I still think that it is unlikely that it is necessary.

It would be nice if the OP could come back and tell us the context, in which, he saw the sentence. Until then, we can only speculate on what might be possible in very specific circumstances.

[PeaceBlondie]

As reported speech, it may need to be a direct quotation, and then I think it still does not work. "He had stolen the money just now" becomes "She said, 'He stole the money just now!'" If an indirect quote, it does not work: "She said that he had stolen the money just now" still inserts 'just now' into the past, which was really "just then."

I usually reserve the past perfect for dependent clauses. "We had just finished swimming when the tsunami struck" or "The tsunami struck just as we had finished swimming." Some non-native and native speakers try to sound overly erudite by using the past perfect too much, thus making overly complex sentences. But then, being American, I simply ask, "Did you eat yet?" To which the Brits may ask what kind of food yet is, and the Thais may think I swore.

[Ijustwannateach]

Think of it with the 'just now' as reporting the time of the speech, not the action, as in:

"Just now, he said he had stolen the money."

In that light, it's awkward but not necessarily incorrect to put the adverbial phrase at the end:

"He said he had stolen the money, just now."

"S"

[withnail]

Sure, but as yet we have no idea if that was what the OP was trying to say.

[mbkudu]

"He had stolen the money just now."

It makes no possible sense. It's got to be either:

'He's just stolen the money.' [simple present perfect tense; a connection

between a very recent past event and the present. Used by mostly British English speakers.

'He just stole the money.' [simple past tense; a completed action in the past with no connection to the present. Not correct in

my opinion because of the word 'just'. Used by many American English speakers.

The 'just now' part fukcs it all up.

[mbkudu]

What about this line from the 80s punk band Big Black?

"I told myself I would not go even as I drive there."

[AGareth2]

just now can be complicated, however you could say " He had just stolen the money....." if it refers to an event prior to a past event

[Tyke]

Can somebody please tell me if it would be grammatically correct to say the following sentence :

He had stolen the money just now. It is the "just now" that I am actually questioning.

Thank you kindly

Well, if it doesn't sound right then it needs fixing - and this definitely needs fixing. Better to say "he's just stolen some money'

[AGareth2]

^ ref: post 14