Christian Cure For Gays And Lesbians?

[^_^]

Hi,

On one of my sleepless nights, around 3-4am, I've seens a pretty long (almost 1hr) advertisement (the type where they promote and sell their stuff by calling them...can't remember what's the program called...) on TV, Channel NBT, with some Christians proclaiming that they could cure Gays and Lesbians, and the service is FREE!!! All you gotta do is call them!!!

Then they started showing what they proclaimed to be actual cases documentary of Gays/Lesbians being "cured" and "reverted" back to leading a "Straight" life, happily married, and leading a "normal" family life

Last, they shown an interview with the person in charge of this Christian group in Thailand, a Farang Woman, whom "was" previously a Lesbian, relating how being Christian, accepting Christ, could cure one's "Abnormal" sexual preference

This Farang Woman could speak Thai fluently, as I understand Thai language.

For the naive mind, due to their look-like-real documentaries, for those "Straights" out there whom doesn't really know how/what gay came about, I think they might get the support of many worrying parents sending their kids whom the parents suspect might have gay/lesbian tendencies to these Christians.

Taking myself as an example in real cases, I've fought against my gay tendencies since the age of 12 and continue to live a life against my natural sexual tendencies for nearly 16 years; which lead to many suicide attempts...in short...total disaster.

It was only until I've stopped fighting (actually...I was flat out) against myself at the age of 28, then did I know that what/how life is...but then...I regret not being able to enjoy my teenage life as a gay

Having seen this advertisement on TV, frankly, I feel REALLY PISSED OFF!!! I'm a person whom doesn't gets angry easily, aand furthermore, I'm not an anti-anything/anyone/any group person. BUT what these group of Christians is doing is REALLY PISSING me OFF!!!

Is it legal for them to do that in Thailand or any other countries?

What are they hoping to achieve?

[Ijustwannateach]

Taking advantage of the insecure and downhearted- pretty classic technique of Christian proselytizing to address the underdog, attempting to divide and conquer that way. There are plenty of reasons why gay men and women may occasionally feel a little unhappy, and if they catch a few of them at the right time, you've got a "conversion"- not a very convincing one, IMHO, but if it makes them happy...

Incidentally, some of the campest things I've ever seen have been Christian services, prayer meetings, revivals, etc., etc. A lot of closet energy going on there.

"S"

[^_^]

One thing I'm curious though...

I'm a Buddhist not a Christian, but I do have quite a bit of knowledge on Buddhist (was ordained as a monk before), Christian (in which I took an interest when I was a teenager and actually shed a few tears reading about the story of Jesus Christ), and Islam (in which in a way the teaching of Buddha encourages me to study more about other religions as Buddha himself said that Buddhism isn't the one and only path that leads to Nirvana...but it's the practice of one's action and the choice of one's path could also lead to Nirvana...regardless whatever religion)

On the advertisement, it shows a very short strips in which a few Christians standing and held their hands with the palm facing the head of the "Devil/Gays/Lesbians" whom sat on a chair looking like as though possesed.

What were they doing?

Exorcising?

[Ijustwannateach]

No clue- I'm not into the whole Christian thing even when it's not being used to exploit the weak in spirit. Call 'em up and ask.

[^_^]

Reminded me to take down their number if their Ads appears tonight (if I managed to stay awake) or some other night when/if I have another one of those sleepless night again

Reason for edit: spelling correction

Edited June 25, 2008 by ^_^

[cophen]

How can you 'cure' someone when they have nothing wrong with them?

[Carib]

Well, as the OP said; The program was during the night when he couldnot sleep... it was a kind of advertisement.

Bible thumpers trying to make a buck during the night.... Nuff said.

They always have alllllllll the answers, and will free the world of allllllll evil, even if it doesnot bother us. Sigh....

In some way they always seem to want to convince everybody that they have a problem, and they have got the cure...well i have seen enough of these biblethumping solutions.

[PeaceBlondie]

I have heard that many of the Christians who are converted to straight behavior soon lapse, even those who began big ministries of trying to convert gays to straight. I am a gay Christian who lived decades in a weird combination of denial, gay fantasies, unfulfilled temptations, false guilt, etc. I am still amazed at the intense energy that some Christians exert in damning gay behavior (as IJWT says, almost camp-style histrionics by Ph.D.'s and pastors), as if they had nothing better to do with their time and their perverted religion. As if Jesus and Paul had been happily married to a vaginal human for countless years.

Not that there's anything wrong with vaginal humans.

[Scott]

Religion is basically against enjoying things--sex, food (gluttony) etc. So, it's 'easy' to cure some gays. Get them to believe that sex is a sin and evil and only for procreation. Sounds like something most gay men would find in a straight relationship!

[PeaceBlondie]

Religion is basically against enjoying things--sex, food (gluttony) etc. So, it's 'easy' to cure some gays. Get them to believe that sex is a sin and evil and only for procreation. Sounds like something most gay men would find in a straight relationship!

Organized religion can also be about controlling the masses, making them make even more loyal citizens and parishioners. At Miguel's Mexican restaurant here, a sign declares: "Marriage - the end of a good sex life!"

[sbk]

I have heard that many of the Christians who are converted to straight behavior soon lapse, even those who began big ministries of trying to convert gays to straight. I am a gay Christian who lived decades in a weird combination of denial, gay fantasies, unfulfilled temptations, false guilt, etc. I am still amazed at the intense energy that some Christians exert in damning gay behavior (as IJWT says, almost camp-style histrionics by Ph.D.'s and pastors), as if they had nothing better to do with their time and their perverted religion. As if Jesus and Paul had been happily married to a vaginal human for countless years.

Not that there's anything wrong with vaginal humans.

Cheers PB, to each their own

Anyway, the rest of your post reminded me of a minister in the US who was head of an extremely large evangelical church and was outed by the male prostitute he used to visit. He was outed because the man was disgusted by his hypocrisy, raging against homosexuality from the pulpit yet practicing it privately. The church has since sent him to some form of "rehab" to get "cured". I find it very sad that people can't be accepted for who they are and what their sexuality is by certain members of the Christian right.

Certainly, it is unfair to tar all Christians with this intolerant brush as there are plenty of (silent) people out there who don't agree. Its just the loud ones who get heard.

[Jimjim]

Certainly, it is unfair to tar all Christians with this intolerant brush as there are plenty of (silent) people out there who don't agree. Its just the loud ones who get heard.

It's also because people like to pay attention to negative messages so they can have someone to criticize. The Christians who say homosexuality is ok are speaking just as loud, but are more often heard by those who disagree with them.

[geriatrickid]

So Reparative Therapy and Conversion Therapy has come to Thailand. Amazing. It's an approach that cuts across many denominations and religions. It's not just a Christian practice as the techniques are also used in countries under Sharia law and in India as well. In fairness to evangelical Christians, it is viewed as a possible treatment but not the mainstay. Even Exodus the group that promotes the christian cure for homos doesn't say it will work.

For those that missed the medieval period of bleeding bad humours now's your chance to grab onto a fad. These people didn't do their market research because it's going to be a hard sell in the land of Buddha and has as much chance of success as I do scoring a date with a hot Thai movie star. None of the claims can be proven, although there are lots of teary eyed testimonials.

Personally, I think my forcing gay men to look at my naked body would cure them of any desire to sleep with another man, far better than the promoted therapies. Nice money maker though as there is always someone desperate enough to grab at anything.

[Smithson]

Certainly, it is unfair to tar all Christians with this intolerant brush as there are plenty of (silent) people out there who don't agree. Its just the loud ones who get heard.

It's also because people like to pay attention to negative messages so they can have someone to criticize. The Christians who say homosexuality is ok are speaking just as loud, but are more often heard by those who disagree with them.

I don't think Christians trying to 'cure' gays should be called negative, they are simply practicing what the bible teaches. Saint Paul clearly viewed gays with fear and disapproval, saying the it was unnatural and homosexuals must abstain. Rather than focusing on gays, maybe it would be better to question a book that states "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

[PeaceBlondie]

I don't think Christians trying to 'cure' gays should be called negative, they are simply practicing what the bible teaches. Saint Paul clearly viewed gays with fear and disapproval, saying the it was unnatural and homosexuals must abstain. Rather than focusing on gays, maybe it would be better to question a book that states "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Smithson, not trying to gang up on you, but as you said recently about my remarks in another forum, that is not a fact, just your opinion of what the Scripture may say. Saint Paul did not, IMHO (in my homosexual opinion ) say what the translation says. Leviticus 18:22 (and 20:13) is talking about heterosexual anal and oral sex being normal! Anyway, Jews have not killed gays for thousands of years. Here is one of my favorite websites, to which we are all free to make our own opinion, not fact: http://deananderson.wordpress.com/2007/10/...-homosexuality/

[vegas]

I think I'd rather go gay than christian.

[PeaceBlondie]

vegas, you do not have to choose one over the other - you can be both gay and Christian!

In reviewing the website I just quoted, I found a claim that God changed the homosexuality of straight atheists to gay atheists, to punish them for their unbelief! And for decades, I taught in Sunday School that Romans 1 condemned gay sex. No, God damns unbelief in Christ (see John 3:18).

The folks who try to reprogram gay Christians are doing so based on false interpretation of inaccurately translated texts. In my homo opinion, gayly shared.

[Smithson]

I don't think Christians trying to 'cure' gays should be called negative, they are simply practicing what the bible teaches. Saint Paul clearly viewed gays with fear and disapproval, saying the it was unnatural and homosexuals must abstain. Rather than focusing on gays, maybe it would be better to question a book that states "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Smithson, not trying to gang up on you, but as you said recently about my remarks in another forum, that is not a fact, just your opinion of what the Scripture may say. Saint Paul did not, IMHO (in my homosexual opinion ) say what the translation says. Leviticus 18:22 (and 20:13) is talking about heterosexual anal and oral sex being normal! Anyway, Jews have not killed gays for thousands of years. Here is one of my favorite websites, to which we are all free to make our own opinion, not fact: http://deananderson.wordpress.com/2007/10/...-homosexuality/

No feeling ganged up on at all. It's not my opinion, it's one interpretation, I found several, they were all extremely similar. I was bought up understanding that being gay was OK, my sexuality was my business and also if I chose to be religious that was up to me. What concerns me is that many ppl aren't so fortunate, they are told both what religion and sexual preference they must have and I believe the two are connected.

[Tyke]

I think I'd rather go gay than christian.

Well, religion is a pathology not an ideology.

[Navalator]

Tyke! You are so right!

[Galong]

I think I'd rather go gay than christian.

OK, you're in luck. There is a way to do both.... go into the Catholic priesthood!

They're called 'alter' boys because they've been 'altered'... doh!

Everyone in my family (except me) are Catholic... so I'm joking here... no need to flame me or nail me to a bamboo cross.

[noctiluca]

I think the "infomercial" in question is probably the one from Living Waters Thailand.

I haven't seen it myself, so maybe you can tell me if it is.

Anyway, I've seen their web site, and their slogan just makes me laugh out loud, no offense to Christians out there. Isn't that ironic and doesn't it make you squirm?

PURSUING RELATIONAL AND SEXUAL WHOLENESS IN CHRIST

Here are some excerpts from their web:

Who can participate?

Living Waters Thailand is particularly for those seeking healing in their relationships and sexuality.

It is for those who are struggling with issues such as homosexuality, sexual promiscuity or addiction,

the effects of sexual abuse, emotional dependency, self-hatred and the inability to love others well.

Living Waters Programme is designed to minister to those struggling with relational problems

such as homosexuality, sexual abuse, sexual addiction and other relational problems.

I find some of their book titles interesting. Some of them are in English and some in Thai (probably more like translation from English) as below.

ข้ามบ่วงโฮโม by Andy Comiskey

Andrew Comiskey’s story - coming out of homosexuality and the roots of gender brokenness and addiction <I believe it is a translation from his English book: Freeing the homosexual.>

สู่ความเป็นหญิงที่สมบูรณ์ by Jeanette Howard

The roots and healing of lesbianism and emotional dependency

This would tell you who they are and where they are from. <Why am I not so surprised about this? >

Living Waters Thailand was started by Andrew Comiskey in November 2000.

Living Waters ministry is now established in 30 countries world-wide.

Andrew Comiskey (M. Div., Fuller Theological Seminary) is the International Director of Living Waters,

and is founder and Director of Desert Stream Ministries. Andy’s ministry grows out of his own struggle

with the homosexual lifestyle. Andy is married to Annette and is the father of 4 children.

Desert Stream Ministries is based in Kansas City, Missouri and partners with Mike Bickle

and his Forerunner and International House of Prayer communities.

It is interesting to read his biography from Wikipedia. I don't agree with him, but I can't help feel bad for him when:

"After graduation, he embraced his homosexuality and went to live in a gay part of town with a friend. After being gang-raped and beaten at a party, he began to reconsider his life."

Anyway, I'm not here to try to "promote" their cause. Just want to expose what they are.

What I find it funny, though I have to be honest here that I'm not a Christian, is that God is supposed to create all beings, right? And I believe he created them in his own image, right? Doesn't this mean that he also created gay people also, as well as straight? Why hatred or discrimination towards non-straight people then? If you do that, wouldn't it be insulting to the God? Don't they even trust their own God? Well, just something that puzzle me about Christianity.

Anyway, hope I didn't offend anyone here.

[Smithson]

What I find it funny, though I have to be honest here that I'm not a Christian, is that God is supposed to create all beings, right? And I believe he created them in his own image, right? Doesn't this mean that he also created gay people also, as well as straight? Why hatred or discrimination towards non-straight people then? If you do that, wouldn't it be insulting to the God? Don't they even trust their own God? Well, just something that puzzle me about Christianity.

Religion isn't supposed to make sense, it's called 'faith', you just believe without any proof whatsoever.

[Xangsamhua]

Certainly, it is unfair to tar all Christians with this intolerant brush as there are plenty of (silent) people out there who don't agree. Its just the loud ones who get heard.

34% of Roman Catholics in Australia regard homosexuality as immoral (i.e. 66% of Australian Catholics do not). (Report of Australia Institute Study July 2005) By contrast, nearly 70% of Australian Baptists believe homosexuality is immoral. See http://unilife.curtin.edu.au/sexualdiversi...inAustralia.pdf

It's no longer valid, I suggest, to use the term "Christians" for generalisation. Christians now seem to be identified by the things that divide them more than those that unite them. Some liberal Catholics and liberal Protestants probably have as much or more in common with Buddhists (and perhaps other non-theists) than they do with Christian fundamentalists and dogmatic evangelicals - another generalisation, but you get the idea.

[Smithson]

Certainly, it is unfair to tar all Christians with this intolerant brush as there are plenty of (silent) people out there who don't agree. Its just the loud ones who get heard.

34% of Roman Catholics in Australia regard homosexuality as immoral (i.e. 66% of Australian Catholics do not). (Report of Australia Institute Study July 2005) By contrast, nearly 70% of Australian Baptists believe homosexuality is immoral. See http://unilife.curtin.edu.au/sexualdiversi...inAustralia.pdf

It's no longer valid, I suggest, to use the term "Christians" for generalisation. Christians now seem to be identified by the things that divide them more than those that unite them. Some liberal Catholics and liberal Protestants probably have as much or more in common with Buddhists (and perhaps other non-theists) than they do with Christian fundamentalists and dogmatic evangelicals - another generalisation, but you get the idea.

The Christian's who consider homosexuality to be evil can point to the bible to explain why, as it's clearly written in two passages. Where do the moderate Christian's get there views from? There may be passages preaching tolerance, but I don't think Jesus or anyone else said "It's cool to be gay, don't worry about it".

[cophen]

I thought this was the forum FOR gay folks, not ABOUT gay folks?

[orchis]

It's cool to be gay, don't worry about it!

[PeaceBlondie]

The Christian's who consider homosexuality to be evil can point to the bible to explain why, as it's clearly written in two passages. Where do the moderate Christian's get there views from? There may be passages preaching tolerance, but I don't think Jesus or anyone else said "It's cool to be gay, don't worry about it".

No, Smithson, the gay-hating Christians do not have Biblical support. No passage is clearly written, no. Again, I refer you to the URL you may have overlooked in your misunderstanding about what the Bible clearly says and does not say. http://deananderson.wordpress.com/2007/10/...-homosexuality/

You may take your arguments against gay sex elsewhere. Unlike you, many of us have spent much of our livestimes trying to explain, and are weary of repeating ourselves. This is not a forum exclusively for gay people in Thailand, but it is a safe site for those of us who do not wish to explain or defend ourselves against opposition which clearly includes those who wish to kill us. You cannot go into a synagogue wearing swastikas and yelling "Heil Hitler!"

[Smithson]

It seems that you have misunderstood me, I have no problem with being gay at at all. My problem is with Christianity and the bible which IMO is clearly against homosexuality. It's the bible that is wrong, not ppl's sexual preference.

[Bluelotus]

What worries me about this is the "thrice said truth " becomes true to the ignorant and then being gay not only carries the stigma of abnormality and religious condemnation but now if you don't get cured you have the stigma of not seeking a cure when you can be cured. whether they "cure " anyone is not consequential this establishes in a wider sense a falsehood about being gay that it is "cureable" and if you don't seek a cure you are "lost " . Nasty business this and filled with self loathing queers. Follow the Flying Spaghetti Monster his noodley appendages touch us all