Out Clubbing In Bangkok? Be Ready For Drug Test

[Ming~Ming]

It would appear that in the small minds of some people that Thailand can do no wrong and there is a valid reason for every crime the government commit. I am amazed with some of the comments made on this forum.

Try to imagine you are out for a pleasant evening with your wife/GF and you are detained against your will and both you and your wife/GF and forced to urinate in a jar to prove you are not a drug addict. When the samples are negative, the police then decide to fine you for not having your passport. Not very condusive to tourism is it?

I have never taken drugs and dont intend to start anytime soon and I agree that you should obey the laws of whatever country you are in but this behaviour by the police is over the top and will damage tourism. I have been to Thailand a number of times but recently I get the impression that Thailand wants me to leave my money at the airport and get back on the plane.

There is good and bad in every country. Wake up and stop trying to defend the indefensible!

[kat]

I've got to point out that decreased tourist arrivals are only a theory.  In reality, the opposite might be true -- just a different kind of tourist arrivals.

The TAT's statistics show significant growth in tourist arrivals since the social order campaign began three years ago -- except during the SARS scare of 2003.

My bet is that they will continue to rise, but be made up of fewer and fewer sex tourists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I bet you believe everything you read in the newspapers too?

About 18 months ago, Khun Woman who heads up TAT was quoted regarding two press conferences she gave on the same day - the quotes were by the same reporter in a single article and it concerned an initiative to increase marketing to the Middle East countries because of their spend per head.

At the morning conference she stated they spent an average of B 8000+ per day each, and at the afternoon conference she stated they spent an average of 4000 each.

What on earth did she do at lunchtime to make them halve their spending?

Or could it be that TAT just makes up statistics as it goes along?

She was the same person, who in FEBRUARY 2002, stated that the "vital Japanese market" had shown a 40% drop in arrivals due to the World Cup - which didn't start until 5 months later.

If you want reasonably accurate statistics, visit the immigration police website but remember things like Dec 2002 - Khun Leader announced in November that arrivals would top the 10 million mark for the year - end of November's results arrived and showed a drop back year-on-year of around 15% and heading for barely over 9 million by year end - what happened in december? A huge surge completely off the normal curve that pushed arrivals over the 10 million.

Manipulation of the figures? Go look and figure it out for yourself.

Me, I trust my eyes and ears and the comments coming from tourist business operators, whether tour guides or bar owners or any other type of business operator - all except the 4 & 5 star venue operators are complaining of dropped numbers - ergo current policy is to go for the elite tourists, and as we know, there ARE fewer of them, therefore total numbers MUST be falling even if revenue is static or perhaps marginally growing.

Phuket's problems and events like Q bar, plus geographical ignorance tied to the worldwide media coverage of the muslim provinces' problems (it was all over the BBC last week) will depress arrival numbers this high season. But government stats will show a continuous growth - that's the real clue - no country or business can show a continuous uninterrupted growth in anything except total population (even that reverses sometimes) - so any country doing so is not telling the truth = simple really.

Up to them if they want to live in a fantasy land - farangs have the education to see through it, and that's why Dr.T is making life difficult for us - he doesn't want us educating the masses as to what he's up to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree totally with this analysis. This has been clear to me since the convergence of horrofic local events that were done with impunity and the advent of stricter crackdowns on foreigners. First rule of thumb for any dictator: get rid of the intellgentsia most likely to criticize. And if you can't get rid of them, create a sense of fear and intimidation so that no one will want to speak up for fear of getting kicked out of the country or penalized. This includes outspoken newspaper columnists as well as farangs.

[Foggy Bottom]

There is a standard of civil liberties and rule of law in most developed societies for good reasons.

What happens if I smoke a splif in another country such as Amsterdam in a legal coffee shop, and then hop on a flight to Thailand and get fleeced in a drug-pissing shake down?

No laws were broken in Thailand, I was not seen with drugs or caught in the act, was not breaking other laws (provocation), and yet I would then be subject to Thai laws and rules of bribery for an act that was legal elsewhere.

The problem with nebulous sieges and arrests is that they produce nebulous results

that have nothing to do with the rule of law.  And it will not reduce drug use; avoidance of the root issues never do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point - I also remember the furore (in 2002 ?) when the various makers of Red Bull, M150, and Lipo wanted to set up production plants (in Europe) because the Thai product contained too much Caffeine for European standards and could not be exported to anywhere. Euro reasoning related to using it as a caffeine source for making E and other drugs.

PMT ordered a Bank of Thailand censure of the proposals due to the amount of capital leaving the country - bit different when he proposed buying a big chunk of Liverpool FC wasn't it? And when he did various telecomms deals with Burma and India?

That's the type of "seeing through" that I was referring to.

His best manouevre was still the 2001 revision of the telecoms Act to reduce foreign ownership to 25% after Orange had invested to 49% in Thailand, coupled with the TAT/TOT access charges preferential treatment for Shin.

[kat]

Right Gaz. There are many to choose from, but one of my personal favorites is when he stopped Issan grassroot protest groups from coming to Bangkok to protest during APEC last year by threatening the bus companies that were going to bring them. And then then he vindictively states that they all just want to collect foreign receipts from their farang donors, when he himself got a multimillion dollar loan from America for his sattelite business.

That one is my favorite. Anyone got any others? We could start a whole new thread of favorite Thaksin moments.

[Elysium]

BTW. The Q Bar raid and our thoughts about it have been discussed just after the event itself. Came to the same conclusion then and now. See my post here and the previous ones in the old thread.

Q BAr raided

[daveh]

It would appear that in the small minds of some people that Thailand can do no wrong and there is a valid reason for every crime the government commit. I am amazed with some of the comments made on this forum.

Try to imagine you are out for a pleasant evening with your wife/GF and you are detained against your will and both you and your wife/GF and forced to urinate in a jar to prove you are not a drug addict. When the samples are negative, the police then decide to fine you for not having your passport. Not very condusive to tourism is it?

I have never taken drugs and dont intend to start anytime soon and I agree that you should obey the laws of whatever country you are in but this behaviour by the police is over the top and will damage tourism. I have been to Thailand a number of times but recently I get the impression that Thailand wants me to leave my money at the airport and get back on the plane.

There is good and bad in every country. Wake up and stop trying to defend the indefensible!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try to imagine you are out for a pleasant drive with your wife/GF and you are stopped at a sobriety check point against your will and you are required to show your drivers license. When it is determined that you were not drunk, the police then decide to fine you because you were not wearing your seat belt. The US is not very different than Thailand, is it?

[PvtDick]

It would appear that in the small minds of some people that Thailand can do no wrong and there is a valid reason for every crime the government commit. I am amazed with some of the comments made on this forum.

Try to imagine you are out for a pleasant evening with your wife/GF and you are detained against your will and both you and your wife/GF and forced to urinate in a jar to prove you are not a drug addict. When the samples are negative, the police then decide to fine you for not having your passport. Not very condusive to tourism is it?

I have never taken drugs and dont intend to start anytime soon and I agree that you should obey the laws of whatever country you are in but this behaviour by the police is over the top and will damage tourism. I have been to Thailand a number of times but recently I get the impression that Thailand wants me to leave my money at the airport and get back on the plane.

There is good and bad in every country. Wake up and stop trying to defend the indefensible!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try to imagine you are out for a pleasant drive with your wife/GF and you are stopped at a sobriety check point against your will and you are required to show your drivers license. When it is determined that you were not drunk, the police then decide to fine you because you were not wearing your seat belt. The US is not very different than Thailand, is it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I may be wrong, but I believe that in the US you can only be subjected to a sobriety test if there is sufficient cause to believe you may be inebriated (i.e., driving recklessly, slurred words, difficulty walking). Simply being in a night club would not count as sufficient cause to require one to submit to any kind of test.

[Steely Dan]

There is a standard of civil liberties and rule of law in most developed societies for good reasons.

What happens if I smoke a splif in another country such as Amsterdam in a legal coffee shop, and then hop on a flight to Thailand and get fleeced in a drug-pissing shake down?

No laws were broken in Thailand, I was not seen with drugs or caught in the act, was not breaking other laws (provocation), and yet I would then be subject to Thai laws and rules of bribery for an act that was legal elsewhere.

The problem with nebulous sieges and arrests is that they produce nebulous results

that have nothing to do with the rule of law.  And it will not reduce drug use; avoidance of the root issues never do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A very good point;- Indeed unless there is internationally agreed standards of enforcement, detection and right to civil liberties then the entire act of attempting prohibition is fundamentally flawed. I must say I blame the U.S 'war on drugs' policy which is yet another exercise in flawed logic to follow prohibition, McCarthyism and the more recent 'War on terror'. The trouble is that such crusades have worldwide consequences one being the making of political capital or removal of government opponents, which is the case with quasi democracies. Never has my signature quote been more appropriate.

[Doctor John]

Doctor John, I guess by your reasoning that the murder of over 2000 "Drug Dealers" will haved helped solve the drug supply problem in Thailand? Did it? If so why is there a need for random drug tests in clubs, if by your suggestion a few public crucifictions might help, why did't the 2000 state sanctioned murders help? your ideology is so flawed it is frightening. Bet you read the Sun!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, so crucify a few farang, that will keep them out!

[Doctor John]

I have been to Thailand a number of times but recently I get the impression that Thailand wants me to leave my money at the airport and get back on the plane.

There is good and bad in every country. Wake up and stop trying to defend the indefensible!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We are so lucky to have our choice of destinations to travel to.

Would you go to Baghdad for a trip ? No, niether would I.

Would I go anywhere that I did not want to be ? No I would not.

Why would you ?

[HedKeeQuai]

That drunk driving argument doesn't hold. In Australia, police are allowed to test drivers with a breathalyzer for no reason. In the US, they're not even allowed to do this. First they must see you do something illegal and then do a silly sobriety test. As for wearing seatbelts, wouldn't a smart person wear a seatbelt for their own safety, be it mandatory or not?

Drugs are a totally different issue, and I've read many ignorant comments here. Thankfully there are more replies that use common sense and make a good argument. Unfortunately they receive answers like "don't do drugs. don't break the law. Thailand is right, you're not. Leave if you don't like it. The Thai's don't get a chance to." I actually feel sorry for the Thais that can't leave, because they're subject to these human rights violations and they can't get out of the country if they wanted to.

Maybe to Holland? Where drugs are legal (to an extent) and is crime out of control? Doesn't seem like it. They'll actually have booths at parties that will test illegal drugs (such as XTC) for users, free of charge, so they don't injest something harmful (well, something that they don't want in their bodies).

I call this responsible, they understand people will be taking drugs. There's not much they can do about it, except reduce risk. Bit of a contrast to shooting people, is it not?

I know this will never happen in Thailand, and I accept it. I would just like to be able to go out at night & dance, without having to worry about this stupid s**t that, let's face it, is pointless. Not constructive.

Edit: Dr John, I want to be in Thailand. This country advertises itself as a tourist destination. Would you say violating the rights of tourists to enjoy themselves (without hurting anyone) is a smart thing to do?

[Richard Hall]

Don't wanna be tested for drugs and hassled = Be home or even better be in bed before midnight.

Actually, guess no need to be Einstein to figure that out and better for your health anyway.

So, what's the fuss?

[Doctor John]

Edit: Dr John, I want to be in Thailand. This country advertises itself as a tourist destination. Would you say violating the rights of tourists to enjoy themselves (without hurting anyone) is a smart thing to do?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I enjoy myself without breaking the law.

Is going to Thailand to do illegal drugs a smart thing to do ?

[marquess]

Go party in Benidorm if Thailand is too strict, why bitch about it ?

It is not that Thailand is too strict as you put it, is just that it is becoming more and more puratanical. If someone wants to take to drugs because there is something missing in their lives; then that is an immense pity. However that is their choice

[Coffee Dude]

I may be wrong, but I believe that in the US you can only be subjected to a sobriety test if there is sufficient cause to believe you may be inebriated (i.e., driving recklessly, slurred words, difficulty walking).  Simply being in a night club would not count as sufficient cause to require one to submit to any kind of test.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes you are wrong. In many states and at times some municiple laws allow for unwarrented check points where failure to submit to BAC test administered by breath analysis will result in your immediate incarceration. (Guilty until proven inocent) So I have to agree that the US is not MUCH different in this respect.

Coffee!!!

[Doctor John]

If someone wants to take to drugs because there is something missing in their lives; then that is an immense pity. However that is their choice[/size][/color][/font][/i]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK Chaps, problem solved, next time a cop stops you in Thailand, get out a Big Spliff and spark up.

And tell them that Marquess said it was ok.

[Insight]

Can't agree with the people who sympathise and feel this is not something we should be concerned about. Prehaps nightlife is not of interest to you, but that's no excuse for your reasoning.

It's the "guilty until proven innocent" routine, and even when proven innocent, they try grab you on the ridiculous charge of not carrying your passport with you???

What sort of message is this methodology trying to send, other than "Stay away - period" ?

And if the flawed test results are anything to go by, it looks like many of the punters tested clean. In other words, no drug problem, nothing to worry about. So why keep on raiding and testing other clubs when they only return the same results? Read the above paragraph.

[PvtDick]

Go party in Benidorm if Thailand is too strict, why bitch about it ?

It is not that Thailand is too strict as you put it, is just that it is becoming more and more puratanical.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So is the US, thanks to the political party which has been in power for the past four years. Actually, one could draw a lot of parallels between Mr. Bush and Dr. Toxin.

[Doctor John]

It's the "guilty until proven innocent" routine, and even when proven innocent, they try grab you on the ridiculous charge of not carrying your passport with you???

It's the law, same as in many countries.

[bollox]

I DONT GIVE A SH&*!E

[Elysium]

Doc John,

If life was as simple as your simple answers... wouldn't life be beautiful??? But we, including yourself, know that it isn't that simple.

So why returning with your useless one liners without any substance??

We all know that drugs is against the law and all agreed on that for a while now, so no need to come back with that line over and over again! It is the reasons behind the raid and the wished exposure what annoys me and others. Whilst being annoyed I do not advocate drugs use in any way.

[marquess]

It's the law, same as in many countries.

Stalin and Hitler amongst others had laws too. Look where it go alot of innocent people, just glad you weren't on the wrong side of the law Dr.John

[Doctor John]

Doc John,

If life was as simple as your simple answers... wouldn't life be beautiful??? But we, including yourself, know that it isn't that simple.

Don't take drugs and carry your passport with you as stated by the law of the realm, seems pretty simple to me.

So why returning with your useless one liners without any substance??

I struggled through your useless 6 - 7 liner, but one liners are easier.

We all know that drugs is against the law and all agreed on that for a while now, so no need to come back with that line over and over again!

I only have one thing to say: Dont break the law. Don't do Drugs.

It is the reasons behind the raid and the wished exposure what annoys me and others. Whilst being annoyed I do not advocate drugs use in any way.

The reason behind the raid is to discourage people from taking drugs. I cannot see what your objections are.

Feel free to be annoyed, you break no laws. Just don't feel annoyed then take drugs or forget to carry your passport with you.

[Doctor John]

It's the law, same as in many countries.

Stalin and Hitler amongst others had laws too. Look where it go alot of innocent people, just glad you weren't on the wrong side of the law Dr.John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not carrying ones passport and not taking illegal drugs is a difficult thing to do ?

[Axel]

Feel free to be annoyed, you break no laws. Just don't feel annoyed then take drugs or forget to carry your passport with you. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I am utmost annoyed by your senseless posts.

TROLL

Question to Admin:

Any possibility to check and confirm wether or not this poster has

legally earned his academic title he claims in his nickname?

[chuchok]

Dr jane sounds like a broken record.....struth he goes on!

[Doctor John]

Question to Admin:

Any possibility to check and confirm wether or not this poster has

legally earned his academic title he claims in his nickname?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Axel, its a Forum. If we all agreed with each other there would be no posts.

Doctor John is a Musician.

[Insight]

Doctor John is a Musician.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Planning on getting a gig in a club somewhere?

[Doctor John]

Doctor John is a Musician.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Planning on getting a gig in a club somewhere?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea, but I will only do legal Drugs. ( alcohol ), and I will carry my Passport

[PvtDick]

Does it really come as any surprise to anyone here that Thailand does not offer the civil liberties we take for granted in the West? Do ANY Asian countries come close? As a matter of fact, I can think of a whole bunch of Asian countries with lower levels of civil liberties than Thailand -- but only a few which might have better.

Part of the reason is that democracy is younger in Asia, and certainly another part is the fact that most Asians have a different attitude towards authority and government than we do -- and lower expectations regarding their individual rights in respect to them.

These things will certainly change over time, but it will be due to the LOCALS demanding more freedoms, not tourists and expats.

Most of us come to Asia because we love the differences in culture, not the similarities. If you're unprepared to deal with the differences -- including those regarding civil liberties -- you should possibly consider just staying at home.