Taxi Cabs Stand Still As LPG Supply Runs Short

[h90]

This is crap.. they also run on gassoline at the flick of a switch,

they run like crap on gas, after a steady diet of propane, I have converted many vehicles, straight propane works best, dual fuel not too good, gas sits in tank for a year for example,engine timing issues as well to mention a few problems.

yes old gas is bad, but making the tank full and getting rid of that problem. I know a few people who run both.

yes they might run crap, but they do run.

[jongkolkhoo]

I believe that it is time we close the Enron loophole which is allowing rampant speculation on future stocks affecting to a great degree (some analysts say up to 60%) the price of many commodities like oil and rice.

Who is paying for these usurious gains? ALL of us and, of course, the poorest of us are paying the hardest. At this time, we have no options and the big car companies are pushing hybrids (NOT electric cars). Is there anyone who believes that they could not produce an electric car? Of course they can. It is true that a lot of investments has been put into manufacturing cars using the internal combustion engine. I think this is of the main reason why the big car companies are pushing the hybrid cars since it is still using the internal combustion engine, manufacting plans, and oil. Of course, the big car companies are happy because there is a smooth transition for them towards an electric car and the oil companies (or producing countries) are happy too as the price of oil keeps climbing (or remains high) are making huge profits. But, is it good for us and the environment?

At $150 a barrel, oil is giving many of the players (producers and traders, including those big pension funds belonging to the baby boomers now starting to retire) returns on their investment that will NOT result in the cut of the use of oil and the use of the internal combustion engine. Tar sands, for instance, can be produced at a profit at around $50. $100 profit on a barrel is outrageous and gives every incentive for oil companies to continue to extract this oil at a huge cost, a huge environmental cost. I urge all environmentalists (and reasonable people) to help bring down the price of oil to give the chance for electric cars to become viable. I think prices need to drop and regulations on trading needs to occur.

The Canadian economy is strong thanks to all of this and so is my pension fund. On the other hand, food prices and oil price have been increasing. Flight prices have been increasing. Many people are losing their jobs. I think soon the huge gains are going to create a recession and then all of those gains will be for nothing.

Nuclear energy is --by far-- the most efficient energy source and, given proper and safe disposal of waste products, for many countries in the word (from the Northern hemisphere) the best energy source. Of course, for Thailand (and other countries from the Southern hemisphere, for instance), other energy sources might be more suitable. Of course, lowering consumption and waste of energy should be taking place. Do we need to live in palaces? Do we need to drive big SUVs? BTW, I think hydrogen technology is just as bad as oil since energy is needed to make hydrogen. I also think (like Chris) that hybrid diesel engines are (AT THIS TIME) the best solution, but it is still running on oil. A plug-in version would be best BTW. A car running purely on stored electricity is best I think, even though battery effiency/disposal and waste will need to be solved. Of course, gas station can be replaced by hydrogen stations. Guess who is going to be happy about that? Of course nuclear energy is dangerous, but is it anymore than a climate that is gong to create cataclysmic changes at the level of the planet?*

A lot of people are hurting and will be hurting as the price of commodities, such as oil, is increasing or remaining that high, except OF COURSE the big players.

* This is simplified due to time and space contraints.

I am helping .. am currently working on investing to operate a palm oil mill in southern Thailand. My plant will be bio mass/biogas or conventional steam turbine for electricity generation. problem is everybody claims to be better and every consultant gives their own point of view. The denmark embassy rep (in Malaysia) offers help but with certain conditions attached. As this is a huge investment, any input from forum members on biogas will help me understand more on the impact of the individual system.

Engineers guarentees they can do the job but they don't care about commercials (asked the danish biogas consultant about ROI and they tell me that all i care about is $$$$$) . consultants wants money first before they can give any Feasibility Study. I have to pay ofcourse but there are so many of them... whom do I choose?

[Greenside]

Whatever the actual cause of the LPG shortage as reported, it's probably served as a worthwhile wake up call to the people on the street and not only the taxi and delivery drivers who directly earn a living by using it. The government presumably has its collective fingers crossed hoping that the price falls or at least stabilises because it's not rocket science to see that they cannot possibly continue to subsidise LPG to the extent they have been forced to do and that removal of support will affect not only the vehicle consumers, but everyone who uses it for cooking. The unrest that would cause spells political disaster in many people's minds and dual pricing raises another set of problems.

The energy issues are here to stay and require a combination of solutions, from changing the habits of us careless consumers to summoning up the political will and courage to do things like incentivise electic bike use as they seem to have successfully done in many Chinese cities. Bangkok would surely benefit from a "congestion charge" scheme as they have in London which has made getting around much easier and, if the reports I read are true, improved the income for taxis who now spend less time sitting around in traffic jams. Political dynamite when it was introduced but I doubt the inhabitants would dump it if it were put to the vote.

Of course it's not just this country that has opted for a head in the sand attitude but the writing is now clearly on the wall and can't be ignored for much longer. Is it my imagination or have I seen more Fortuners and big 4x4s in the car tents this month?

[rethaired]

I am helping .. am currently working on investing to operate a palm oil mill in southern Thailand. My plant will be bio mass/biogas or conventional steam turbine for electricity generation. problem is everybody claims to be better and every consultant gives their own point of view. The denmark embassy rep (in Malaysia) offers help but with certain conditions attached. As this is a huge investment, any input from forum members on biogas will help me understand more on the impact of the individual system.

Engineers guarentees they can do the job but they don't care about commercials (asked the danish biogas consultant about ROI and they tell me that all i care about is $$$$$) . consultants wants money first before they can give any Feasibility Study. I have to pay ofcourse but there are so many of them... whom do I choose?

Interesting! Thank you!

But, are you using new or recycled palm oil to generate electricity?

Isn't that oil used for something in the food industry, say, for frying certain types of food? If everyone like you, uses food to generate electricity, isn't the price of some food going to increase because there will be much more of a demand for it (for food production AND for an energy source)?

If the material you (or any industrialist) were to use good for nothing (or little), then IMHO it would be okay, maybe (provided the emissions are minimal and the level of energy is acceptable).

I am confused.

Edited July 1, 2008 by rethaired

[zepplin]

Maybe these morons should give a ride to every person who waves them down. Every time they say NO and drive off they waste time ...money...and fuel. They also cause accidents and are the major reason for traffic jams.

Why does a TAXI driver have so much control? Why do they drive around all day with no customers and then complain they make no money and have no fuel? MORONS!!!

you just get in and go. Unless your Taxi's of choice happen to trawl around lower Sukhumvit and the vehicle looks like it is out of a mad max film.

Actually after living in BKK for a few years now I have little respect for 90% of the taxi drivers. Most of the time they are either too lazy, don't want to take you or don't know where they are going.

The other 10% who do actually want to work nearly always know where they are going.

AT LEAST TAXI FARES ARE CHEAP IN BBK YOU SHOULD TRY GETTNG A CHEAP FARE ON KOH SAMUI.ITS CRAZYTHERE -A SMALL ISLAND BUT WITH 400+ TAXIS AD SONGTELLS BUT A 3-4 KMTRIP WILL COST YOU 600BHT IF YOU DO NOT BARGAIN WITH THEM. THEY CLOG UP THE ROADS ,TAKE UP ALL THE PARKING SPOTS AND HASSLE ANYONE THAT APPENS TO WALK BY WHILE THEY LAY ABOUT PLOTTING MORE HIGHER FAE INCREASES.THERE IS NO TAXIS THAT ACTUALLY USE THEIR METER-WHY ASK THE LOCAL MAFIA..YOU GUYS HAVE IT EASY IN BBK

Hopefully that 10% will find fuel and the other 90% can sit in their cabs and shake their heads in their mirrors.

I dunno where about you live but "get in and go" does not seem to work in BKK.

[MrSnrang]

Maybe these morons should give a ride to every person who waves them down. Every time they say NO and drive off they waste time ...money...and fuel. They also cause accidents and are the major reason for traffic jams.

Why does a TAXI driver have so much control? Why do they drive around all day with no customers and then complain they make no money and have no fuel? MORONS!!!

They can complain about not being able to make enough money because of rising fuel prices but they are directly responsible for this. They increase demand as more and more unneeded taxi licenses are issued in big cities while they circle the city or refuse fares.

If you see the traffic jam around JJ market you won't be able to deny that there are simply too many taxis that waste fuel sitting in traffic that they themselves cause.

The blame can really be put on whoever issues taxi driving permits. They allow too many taxis to enter the roads when we really don't need that many and this can only cause more demand for cheap LPG but when they have too many taxis that waste their fuel the supply will eventually buckle and they will have to increase prices or import.

[midland204]

Walk to SkyTrain

get off at Asoke or Nana for Entertainment

or

Sala Daeng for great food

or Ekami for cheap bus ride to the beach

Less tourists coming the other things get better and cheaper

See the silver lining in all of this

[tomo22]

Lets look at oil and why we pay these stupid prices.

Oil is a comodity so is a football player. Why we pay stupid prices for both is beyond me.

If Opec wants to rise there price. What do they need. Rise the price products that they need, Ten, Hundred, Thousand fold.

Opec country's. Need food more than most outher Contrys more than the rest of the world needs oil. (If they think about it)

Look at the people of most OPEC Countries Poor and very rich.

Yes worry about the environment but also look at basic comodities. Oil pricing is hitting everyone.

Me I am now 50 years old been through so many of these oil price hikes.

Why not hit OPEC where it hurts the Pocket.

Greed makes the world go round.

[jongkolkhoo]

Interesting! Thank you!

But, are you using new or recycled palm oil to generate electricity?

Isn't that oil used for something in the food industry, say, for frying certain types of food? If everyone like you, uses food to generate electricity, isn't the price of some food going to increase because there will be much more of a demand for it (for food production AND for an energy source)?

If the material you (or any industrialist) were to use good for nothing (or little), then IMHO it would be okay, maybe (provided the emissions are minimal and the level of energy is acceptable).

I am confused.

a palm oil mill squeeze oil out of the palm fruits aka F.B.B. (fresh fruit bunch). the fruit bunch (leftover from the process) is usually thrown away to rot while the waste water is retained in ponds for bacteria to digest the palm particle. during these process, methane gas is released into the atmosphere. methane is 21 times more destructive then carbon dioxide.

the oil aka C.P.O. is still sold off as commodity.

a palm oil mill is self sustainable and generates 40% more electricity that it required for operations. (a more efficient one generates more than 60 % extra power which can be sold to the grid and still earn carbon credit)

[fiddlehead]

Good evening

With the fuel cost raising like this. What do you guys think to be the best solution for those who really need to have a car?

Diesel engine?

Benzene engine?

Hybrid?

LPG, NGV, CGT, NGT...?

and soon Diesel Hybrid or Hydrogen.

I like diesel (it's almost 80% of the market share in my country) because now we have powerful diesel engines and low gazole consumption.

Cheers

Not sure which one but, I would bet that either electric cars or hydrogen cars will replace gas and diesel cars 10 years from now.

Personally I would like to see either a wind turbine on every roof and solar panels wherever practical to power either one as hydrogen has to be made with electricity also.

I would not like to see the oil producing countries simply getting richer and richer just because we are not smart enough to find an alternative.

The only problem that i see is which one? electric or hydrogen?

[bkk_mike]

I believe that it is time we close the Enron loophole which is allowing rampant speculation on future stocks affecting to a great degree (some analysts say up to 60%) the price of many commodities like oil and rice.

Thankyou.

One of the biggest factors in high oil prices, according to many experts, is that investors, such as hedge funds and investment bankers, can use loopholes in commodities law to manipulate the market and drive crude oil, heating oil, gasoline and diesel fuel prices to new heights.

Congress is aware of the problem and lawmakers recently passed legislation to address the “Enron Loophole,” one of the major loopholes that opens the door to abusive trading practices, but the law didn’t go far enough.

Unfortunately, other loopholes exist that allow energy trading on completely “dark” exchanges. For example, the “Foreign Markets Loophole” allows American energy commodities to be traded overseas – exempt from U.S. oversight.

These so-called “Dark Markets” – commodities markets that are not policed by U.S. authorities provide for an open the door to manipulation, even outright control of the markets.

For example, speculative investors can buy and sell millions of barrels of U.S. destined oil and other energy products every day in the United Kingdom and even in Dubai… but are not made subject to the transparency and accountability laws that govern exchanges here in the United States!

Additionally, through the so-called “swaps loophole,” financial investors can “game the markets” for pure profit by buying up positions in the energy markets, without any limitation on the size of the positions they can take. One recent estimate suggested that they now control one third of the commodities markets, or $150 billion - a 1,000% increase in less than five years!

Some experts believe that as much as 60 percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline or heating oil can be attributed to pure speculation and abusive –even manipulative – trading practices, yet most trading is “dark” and federal authorities can neither fully police or see the data in the majority of the trading markets.

The energy trading markets were originally set up to provide energy producers and distributors with an environment to manage risk and produce the best possible price for their customers. But they are clearly no longer the driving force in the market. Profiteering speculators and investment banks care little about establishing a price for energy based on supply and demand fundamentals – they care about turning a PROFIT.

http://www.stopoilspeculators.com/

What a pile of bulls**t.

Why should America have the "right" to restrict the ability of people outside the US to trade in oil.

Their definition of "dark" seems to be "not traded in the US." Market prices on the IPE in London are readily accessible, so what's "dark" about it.

[Dakhar]

Maybe these morons should give a ride to every person who waves them down. Every time they say NO and drive off they waste time ...money...and fuel. They also cause accidents and are the major reason for traffic jams.

Why does a TAXI driver have so much control? Why do they drive around all day with no customers and then complain they make no money and have no fuel? MORONS!!!

you just get in and go. Unless your Taxi's of choice happen to trawl around lower Sukhumvit and the vehicle looks like it is out of a mad max film.

Actually after living in BKK for a few years now I have little respect for 90% of the taxi drivers. Most of the time they are either too lazy, don't want to take you or don't know where they are going.

The other 10% who do actually want to work nearly always know where they are going.

Hopefully that 10% will find fuel and the other 90% can sit in their cabs and shake their heads in their mirrors.

I dunno where about you live but "get in and go" does not seem to work in BKK.

I got in a cab once and the driver started to moan on about how hard his life was as a taxi driver... all in English. I asked him what his average monthly net income was he said around 5-6K. I offered him a job as a driver for the company I am with at 7.5K and he declined!!!!!!

As u said, lazy?

[BSJ]

Its a worldwide problem. There is not enough energy of whatever kind. The solution is not to drill for more. The solution is for people to exercise the green alternatives which are: 1) Ride your bicycle. 2) Carpool with friends and co-workers. 3) Use public transportation and mass transit. 4) Walk. 5) Arrange telecommuting with your employer. The earth is fighting back with severe weather and high oil prices . In the end it may be a bad thing for humans but a better thing for the environment. Earth abides!!

The reality is the earth has always changed! Look at the last 100,000 years for proof of that.

Some experts believe that as much as 60 percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline or heating oil can be attributed to pure speculation and abusive –even manipulative – trading practices, yet most trading is “dark” and federal authorities can neither fully police or see the data in the majority of the trading markets.

I agree, that has a major influence on the situation. Speculator bastard turning a minor problem into a major one!

[chrisyork]

So why do Taxi Drivers bother? Well keep in mind the level of wages in the real (Thai) economy. Outside of Bangkok an unskilled labourer is looking at 100 - 150BT a day, semi skilled (eg our farm hands) 250Bt per day and a skilled worker (eg an electrician) about 350 - 400Bt per day. Keep those numbers in mind next time you pay a taxi fare!

Most taxi drivers in my experience actually keep their family at home in the countryside so these are the numbers upermost in their mind. And how much does a tank of fuel cost? - around 300BT (LPG). Say 2 tanks per day and you're looking at a pretty good operating profit before the charges for the car, food and room (and a fair few sleep in the taxi).

Chris

[dotcom]

Its a worldwide problem. There is not enough energy of whatever kind. The solution is not to drill for more. The solution is for people to exercise the green alternatives which are: 1) Ride your bicycle. 2) Carpool with friends and co-workers. 3) Use public transportation and mass transit. 4) Walk. 5) Arrange telecommuting with your employer. The earth is fighting back with severe weather and high oil prices . In the end it may be a bad thing for humans but a better thing for the environment. Earth abides!!

You forgot the biggest one.

Tell all your friend to boycott jet airplanes. Gross polluters. !!!!!

[rethaired]

What a pile of bulls**t.

Many people disagree (read below)

Why should America have the "right" to restrict the ability of people outside the US to trade in oil.

... (short answer) because for 75 years this had been regulated to prevent manipulation and speculation (see below).

Their definition of "dark" seems to be "not traded in the US." Market prices on the IPE in London are readily accessible, so what's "dark" about it.

1) "New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine, former chairman and CEO of Wall Street investment firm Goldman Sachs, during a conference call with reporters. Corzine said the volatility in the price of oil "is absolutely indicative of speculation in the markets." (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25318274/)

2) "The lack of regulation is due to what's actually called the "Enron Loophole." Enron Chairman Ken Lay and his market-manipulating buddies persuaded Congress and federal regulators in 2000 that electronic trading markets would be more "efficient" if they didn't suffer the weight of regulation. An attempt by a hedge fund in 2005 to corner the market in natural gas finally forced federal commodity regulators to quit denying the truth: speculation, not market conditions, was driving prices. Unregulated markets are not efficient, they're an invitation to gaming by big money and Big Oil. " (http://www.oilwatchdog.org/articles/?storyId=18735)

3) Excerpts from the whole story (this is by far the best article explaining the history that led to the use of the Enron loophole):

"For almost 75 years, the CFTC has imposed limits on how much of certain agricultural commodities, including wheat, cotton, soybean, soybean meal, corn, and oats, can be traded by non-commercial players — that is, investors who are not part of the food industry. So-called "commercial hedgers," like farmers or food processors, can trade unlimited amounts in order to manage their risk. The limits were designed to prevent manipulation and distortion in what are relatively small markets, and at the same time to allow for a small amount of speculative activity, in order to provide liquidity for trading."

[...]

"In the early 1990s, Mr. West held a seat as a commissioner on the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the U.S. regulator charged with overseeing trading in hundreds of staple items, from corn and wheat to oil and cotton. Mr. West was a lifelong Democrat; his boss, CFTC chair Wendy Gramm, was a devout Republican and a believer in the laissez-faire, free-market philosophy espoused by president Ronald Reagan, who once described her as his "favourite economist."

In the fall of 1990, the two clashed over the CFTC's response to a New York court decision involving a little-known Bermuda energy company called Transnor Ltd.

Long forgotten by most, Transnor paved the way for wide-ranging deregulation of commodities trading, an effort that helped to spur the rise of Enron Corp. and which has enabled the stampede of large fund speculators into food markets.

In the winter of 1986, Transnor filed suit against some of the world's largest oil companies, alleging that they manipulated prices on the Brent market, an informal oil trading system that at the time determined the daily price of oil.

At first, few paid attention to the lawsuit. That all changed on April 18, 1990, when Judge William Conner delivered a stunning ruling midway through the trial.

The case hinged on drawing a key distinction: Were the 15-day oil contracts that traded on the Brent market "forward contracts" or "futures contracts"?

In a forward contract, the buyer and seller agree to the price of a commodity and a fixed date for delivery. A farmer enters into a forward contract with a food company by promising to deliver a certain amount of grain on a certain date at a certain price. Lawmakers have shied away from regulating forward contracts under commodity trading laws because they are a fundamental part of how farmers and food companies do business — and each agreement is unique.

A futures contract is the same basic agreement, but it trades on an exchange, and the buyer rarely — if ever — takes delivery of the commodities. Instead, futures contracts are used mainly by farmers for hedging and by investors for speculating. These contracts have historically been regulated.

In the Brent case, the difference was crucial, since the Brent market contracts did not trade on any exchange and, in the U.S., were not regulated by the CFTC.

The oil companies, hoping to protect their cozy market, and avoid the red tape and transparency requirements of regulation, argued they were forward contracts.

Judge Conner ruled against the companies, effectively rendering all Brent trading in the U.S. illegal.

Within days, international oil companies stopped trading with U.S. companies and the entire Brent market was verging on collapse.

In Washington, oil industry lobbyists descended on the CFTC, seeking to get the regulator to mitigate Judge Conner's ruling. They found a receptive ear in Ms. Gramm, the commission chair. Ms. Gramm served as a director at the Office of Management and Budget, spearheading a variety of industry deregulation efforts before President Reagan placed her in charge of the CFTC in 1988.

She arrived with other political credentials: her husband, Phil, who is now a senior economic adviser to presidential candidate John McCain, was a Republican senator from Texas.

Even before the Transnor case, Ms. Gramm had started pursuing a deregulation agenda at the CFTC. A year earlier, in 1989, the commission quietly issued a policy statement on swap transactions, deals in which a buyer of commodities such as a pension fund acts through a middleman or a swap dealer — usually a bank. The CFTC declared that it wouldn't regulate swap dealers.

The Transnor case represented another crucial win for financial speculators such as swap dealers. When the court decision was handed down, Ms. Gramm moved quickly to soften the blow to the energy sector, and turned the Transnor decision from an obscure footnote in the history of oil trading into a critical launching pad for a wide-ranging redrawing of the rules of commodities markets.

On Sept. 25, 1990, a policy confirming that the Brent contracts were forward contracts — and therefore, outside the scope of CFTC regulation — was put to a vote among CFTC commissioners.

It passed 3 to 1."

[...]

4) Excerpt from page 22 from testimony from Mr. Greenberger before the U.S. Senate June 3: "if you were to add all of the West Texas Intermediate [oil] trading on NYMEX, ICE, and the Dubai exchange [the latter two unregulated by CFTC], speculation might very well approach 80-90 per cent of the WTI trades executed by U.S. owned exchanges. By any objective assessment, the crude oil market is now overwhelmingly dominated by speculation, most of which is not subject to the age old controls imposed upon speculators in these markets"

5) "Saudi Arabia produced about 3.2 billion barrels (510×10⁶ m³) of oil in 2006, this would give it over 80 years of reserves at current rates of production", according to British Petroleum and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

WOW! 80 years! This is not exactly tomorrow, is it? Is there anyone here who is willing to prove that China's or India's economy have tripled in 2 years, reducing by a factor of 3 these reserves? That would be astounding as it would be impossible. AND let us remind people that because of many fiascos (bank,...) many economies are slowing down and consumption of oil is too. Find the data to prove me wrong. I urge you.

Anyway, I am not too sure if it is evidence that is needed here.

I doubt that speculators would openly admit that there are doing something wrong.

Would a thief phone the police and ask to be sent to jail?

Edited July 1, 2008 by rethaired

[Jing Joe]

Good evening

With the fuel cost raising like this. What do you guys think to be the best solution for those who really need to have a car?

Diesel engine?

Benzene engine?

Hybrid?

LPG, NGV, CGT, NGT...?

and soon Diesel Hybrid or Hydrogen.

I like diesel (it's almost 80% of the market share in my country) because now we have powerful diesel engines and low gazole consumption.

Cheers

Not sure which one but, I would bet that either electric cars or hydrogen cars will replace gas and diesel cars 10 years from now.

Personally I would like to see either a wind turbine on every roof and solar panels wherever practical to power either one as hydrogen has to be made with electricity also.

I would not like to see the oil producing countries simply getting richer and richer just because we are not smart enough to find an alternative.

The only problem that i see is which one? electric or hydrogen?

But Fiddlehead --- an amazing alternative is here.

Did you see the compressed air car article I posted further up in this forum? Costs will come down and sure the total running distance of 125 miles is limited at the moment before the very quick refill, but what a perfect solution for just the taxis alone in polluted Bkk? How about the noisy smelly Tuk Tuks too?

Watch the very impressive video clips out there on this Indian car and you might then ask;- which one or ones--- Air, Electric or Hydrogen?

Edited July 1, 2008 by Jing Joe

[ttk]

Its a worldwide problem. There is not enough energy of whatever kind. The solution is not to drill for more. The solution is for people to exercise the green alternatives which are: 1) Ride your bicycle. 2) Carpool with friends and co-workers. 3) Use public transportation and mass transit. 4) Walk. 5) Arrange telecommuting with your employer. The earth is fighting back with severe weather and high oil prices . In the end it may be a bad thing for humans but a better thing for the environment. Earth abides!!

And just how is the earth setting high oil prices ?????

[clausewitz]

Its a worldwide problem. There is not enough energy of whatever kind. The solution is not to drill for more. The solution is for people to exercise the green alternatives which are: 1) Ride your bicycle. 2) Carpool with friends and co-workers. 3) Use public transportation and mass transit. 4) Walk. 5) Arrange telecommuting with your employer. The earth is fighting back with severe weather and high oil prices . In the end it may be a bad thing for humans but a better thing for the environment. Earth abides!!

And just how is the earth setting high oil prices ?????

It is complicated. First they have to arrange a meeting with all the other planets. You can imagine how hard that is with all the travelling they do, although a quorum of 5 is sufficient to reach an interim decision. Then a committe takes the proposal to the sun and he decides whether to forward it to galaxy control. It can take a long time before they get to the fighting back stage.

[TAWP]

Was about to take a pic with the cellphone, but imagine you see a cue of 20 taxis outside MBK, all free, all standing due to red light.

Now imagine one having to ask 12 taxis for a ride before one accepts. And imagine one seeing not only me but thai couples of different ages being turned down too. So here we had a que of which some 5 cars eventually got filled up with passengers before all taxis zoomed off... yes, sounds like they are really poor when they turn down incomes like this.

Best excuse was a couple of weeks ago, was going a not that long ride but it was located so I would not be able to take BTS or MRT, so even though it was around 7pm one would have to take a taxi to get there. So taxis are standing in a cue...and I ask one of them for a ride. He declines with the reason that is was cues. Well, yes, I see that. But wouldn't he rather be payed sitting in the same cue than not payed? Somewhere the logic fails.

[Plus]

They are right on the ball with the money, they are not stupid.

They juggle probabilities of finding another fare to a better location after refusing you vs getting a fare back to the "lucrative" area from wherever you are going. They also count the number of hours left on their shift, traffic conditions, and now LPG availability.

What makes you think they refuse customers without any reason?

[samran]

Maybe these morons should give a ride to every person who waves them down. Every time they say NO and drive off they waste time ...money...and fuel. They also cause accidents and are the major reason for traffic jams.

Why does a TAXI driver have so much control? Why do they drive around all day with no customers and then complain they make no money and have no fuel? MORONS!!!

you just get in and go. Unless your Taxi's of choice happen to trawl around lower Sukhumvit and the vehicle looks like it is out of a mad max film.

I ride taxis all over the city. Not one looked like a vehicle out of any movie. All were METER TAXIS and I have been told NO because of traffic jam...or shift change. They must change shifts every hour because it happens all the time. BY THE WAY...when was the last time you took a taxi...and have you never been denied service?

I ride a taxi every day, getting to work and getting to client sites.

Yes, all are metered taxis.

Yes, I have been declined service for two reasons. Either it is a shift change (totally legit which I have no problem with), or it is a 'mafia' taxi or 'tourist' taxi which just refuses to go anywhere that they don't want to. The latter are usually around all the tourist areas and usually can be identified (but not always) by being parked on the side of the road of said tourist spots or driving slowly along the curb. In my experience, they tend to be older looking taxi's - and usually have 'rights' to be there. Silom on the Patpong side and lower Suhumvit on the north side are prime areas for these guys.

I usually hail the ones who are simply driving along and NOT looking for a tourist to take on a 'special price' trip somewhere.

Outside the touristy areas it is pretty fine just to jump in and go, or if the destination is a little far, simply to ask first. They'll usually tell me if the REALLY can't go somewhere.

[cclub75]

The reality is the earth has always changed! Look at the last 100,000 years for proof of that.

Sure. But at that time, we weren't there.

I agree, that has a major influence on the situation. Speculator bastard turning a minor problem into a major one!

It seems a little bit... more complicated than that.

Crude Oil Rises a Second Day as IEA Predicts `Tight' Supplies Through 2013 (Bloomberg)

[TAWP]

They are right on the ball with the money, they are not stupid.

They juggle probabilities of finding another fare to a better location after refusing you vs getting a fare back to the "lucrative" area from wherever you are going. They also count the number of hours left on their shift, traffic conditions, and now LPG availability.

What makes you think they refuse customers without any reason?

15 out of 20 taxis going around the block and continuously denying customers that is going to travel further than 5 kilometers away doesn't sound lucrative to me. Do the math, unless they would get a lot of flag-drops, they aren't making more money. They get 200+ for taking me and it takes 45 minutes maximum, 30 minutes via the highway. Sitting in cues downtown and getting 1 Baht per 3 minutes(?) in 'standing still' money is hardly making more...(and yes, people take taxis a lot in the area I'm going to also. And there one is rarely denied...just that some 'downtown' taxi drivers seem to dream about the gold-cow coming...)

[dotcom]

Uncle Joe Stalin should pass a law declaring that no taxi may refuse a fare.

If close to shift change TURN OFF YOUR RED LIGHT.

Citizens would be encouraged to report violators - who could be red carded for 14 days or something suitable.

Of course Uncle Joe Stalin will need to stop the hoarding, Shell safety drills & get LPG into the stations.

[EmptyMind]

They are right on the ball with the money, they are not stupid.

They juggle probabilities of finding another fare to a better location after refusing you vs getting a fare back to the "lucrative" area from wherever you are going. They also count the number of hours left on their shift, traffic conditions, and now LPG availability.

What makes you think they refuse customers without any reason?

They are TAXI DRIVERS, If they don't want to drive a taxi with other people in it they should get a different job, or at least turn off the dam_n light.

Is MBK one of these "lucrative" areas that you talk about ?

Whats the point in having cabs in a city when the drivers keep saying no. Do they forget what taxi drivers are suppoed to do ?

Imagine if the food sellers were too lazy to sell you food because they just counted " the number of hours left on their shift "

[george]

Gov't warning against panic refuelling of LPG

BANGKOK: -- Energy Minister Poonpirom Liptapanlop on Wednesday said motorists had no justification to hoard LPG or rush for a refuel because there was no supply shortages as feared.

"The Energy Ministry can totally confirm that the country has an adequate supply of LPG for domestic consumption," she said.

Poonpirom said the perceived shortage happened because motorists tried to refule their tanks before it was deemed necessary.

She also cited safety reason to remind motorists not to refuel the vehicles directly from the cooking gas.

--The Nation 2008-07-02

[Plus]

Whats the point in having cabs in a city when the drivers keep saying no. Do they forget what taxi drivers are suppoed to do ?

Do you forget that they are people, too? If they need to return their cab for the next shift in 30 minutes and you want to go to Rangsit, it's always easier fo you to find a next cab than for the driver to be late for the shift change. They are probably fined for that.

MBK is a downtown area, they can easily get three fares and make the same 200+ baht without driving out to the sticks. It's always a tough one, I know. Besides, cabbies hanging out in those tourist spots have different attitudes, just look for an "outsider".

Also don't forget that cabbies are often tied to a particular area, if one's "home" is in Thonburi, they'll be uncomfortable driving to Ramindra simply because they don't know that area very well. Add the stress of following directions given by a farang, add the danger of getting lost and the chances of a farang simply walking out in anger. I myself would be sorry I stopped for you.

I've been refused a number of times but they were always very courteous about it and gave convincing reasons.

Imagine if the food sellers were too lazy to sell you food because they just counted " the number of hours left on their shift "

Easy, many restaurants don't take orders about half an hour before closing.

[TAWP]

But this isn't about shift-change!

I take taxi on average 8 times per week now, and it looks like it have to increase...and it's a re-occuring pattern downtown. Have been refused 1 time I can remember in the suburbs, but downtown it's daily. Even for in-downtown trips.

Or are shift-changes happening every full hour?

[ratcatcher]

Gov't warning against panic refuelling of LPG

BANGKOK: -- Energy Minister Poonpirom Liptapanlop on Wednesday said motorists had no justification to hoard LPG or rush for a refuel because there was no supply shortages as feared.

"The Energy Ministry can totally confirm that the country has an adequate supply of LPG for domestic consumption," she said.

Poonpirom said the perceived shortage happened because motorists tried to refule their tanks before it was deemed necessary.

She also cited safety reason to remind motorists not to refuel the vehicles directly from the cooking gas.

--The Nation 2008-07-02

I am curious about hoarding LPG. Anyone with a 45 gallon oil drum or plastic water storage tank can hoard gasoline or petrol.

However, doesn't storing LPG require a little more technology.

Can your average Somchai just sink a tank in his back yard and store propane? I don't think so.

Maybe if the government came clean and explained to people just what is happening in clear language, maybe there wouldn't be the panic mentality. Or would there?