Ignorant, Stupid Fool?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

have changed the title as it detracts from an otherwise important issue.

Mr T used the word 'fool' quite strongly. If it is good enough for Mr T, then it is good enough for Thai Visa.....

Whereas, as you said Samran, the original topic title was not acceptable here. Thanks for the prompt dump action of that topic title.

[TheDon]

Maybe she was trying to help.

Like I said before, try to educate the lady. What else can you do?

[roygsd]

Maybe you should educate her. Maybe she has no idea what sickness she has. As im sure alot of people have no idea what it is.

Better try that then keep getting all worked up about it

Well done Don, seems like you are mellowing, quite missed the point the poster was making, but an improvement to your usual macho responses.

Roy gsd

[Tywais]

roygsd's intemperate response is dumped.

Two of them actually. Obviously a somewhat contentious subject but let's keep it civil please.

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Yes, have to admit I'd be pretty p****d off in your situation. {Thought I'd add some **** to show I'm adult enough to deal with bad language...}

That said. It's always worth remembering we often judge ourselves on our intentions, and judge others by their actions. That's not just a saying, but advice.

Stop and think you must, if judge you must...

Easier said than done when it's something or someone very close to your heart at the centre of something, but nevertheless just stopping and analysing a situation reduces the emotions around it for a better course of action...

So while I'm probably be just as likely as anyone to snap back with a cutting remark whenit's those close to me, I'd try not to. Put yourself in the shoes of the other person, using that great technique of "hen jai". Otherwise I find that an hour or so later when I've calmed down, I probably the one more wrong. The other person might not have intended any harm with their actions, but I did...

Probably best to calmly explain to the ignorant stupid **** what epilepsy is, what you do about it, how much your child means and how much it makes the situation worse. Ignorance doesn't need to be permanent. But you don't need to be a **** to deal with a **** effectively.

[twschw]

If we knew the context it would help. Was this said immediately after a seizure? Has this neighbour witnessed many seizures before? Or has she just heard rumors of your daughters condition and decided to be a busybody?

If she had just witnessed a seizure for the first time I might excuse her. Sometimes people say things when they see scary things that they might not otherwise say. Seizures can be frightening things to watch. If she sees your daughter having seizures on a regular basis the I think she is uneducated in this condition and education would be a good thing. If she is just a busybody, poking her nose in your business then she deserves to have it slapped.

Just my 2 satang.

[barky]

Why bother trying to educate this low-life woman. Leave her in her ignorance as I'm sure she's happy there. She is probably so narrow minded and brain dead you would simply be wasting your time. Don't do that, as she's not worth a milisecond of your time. Next time she opens her stupid mouth tell her to FO or totally ignore her. Oh and ensure you never have anything to do with this moron. Don't even acknowledge her existance anymore. Erase her from your mind. Get on with taking care of your family.

[joskydive]

Sorry to say, my middle name isn't subtle. Lucky I'm not your wife because I would have, immediately, asked the woman where she got her brain damage from and also proceeding in telling her to mind her own business until she has educated herself sufficiently enough to form an opinion on the subject of Epilepsy.

Also, I don't see why other poster's are telling you to educate her on the subject either. Why should you, it should be up to her if she wishes to interfere and make comments about a subject that she obviously has no knowledge of. Frankly, I think you and your wife have enough to do raising your child without having to go out of your way to educate some ignorant busybody.

I guess you can always live in the hope that one day she will trip over her own mouth and recieve her just deserts from someone else less calm/shocked/upset, than your wife.

[Moonrakers]

The woman has never seen my daughter have a seizure, and the comment was made 2 days after the previous seizure.

In fact I'm not even sure how she knows as she has no connection to us. Perhaps she overheard, or maybe more likely the gossip machine is working overtime in our building and that it has been decided that we are terrible parents, I have no evidence of this though.

I firmly believe that she is sticking her nose in, and that she has no good intentions at heart, otherwise I would have reacted differently.

I'm certainly not looking to instigate a confrontation, rather I am just looking to be prepared for when/if she decides to have a pop again (Or anybody else for that matter). And some replies on here have certainly given me some food for thought.

Oh, and stupid ignorant fool in a Mr-T style works for me too.

[chicowoodduck]

I think the original poster is WAY out of line with this.

1: No harm or ill will was intended on the part of the person making the comment. Not having intimate knowledge of all medical conditions is not a crime. If anything, she/he spoke out because of care and concern about your daughter. The world needs more people showing care and concern.

2: Instead of educating the person about your daughters condition, you choose to whine about it on an internet forum. That is not very productive.

3: The topic title is very offensive.

Honestly it all says a lot more about the original poster than about the incident, or indeed the person making the comment.

What a decent and honest comment, hats off to you for being "above board."

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think the original poster is WAY out of line with this.

1: No harm or ill will was intended on the part of the person making the comment. Not having intimate knowledge of all medical conditions is not a crime. If anything, she/he spoke out because of care and concern about your daughter. The world needs more people showing care and concern.

2: Instead of educating the person about your daughters condition, you choose to whine about it on an internet forum. That is not very productive.

3: The topic title is very offensive.

Honestly it all says a lot more about the original poster than about the incident, or indeed the person making the comment.

What a decent and honest comment, hats off to you for being "above board.

I agree. ESPECIALLY if this is the result of a gossip mill then education / information is the best cure against ignorance. What else would you propose, being nasty in any way? That'll do your standing in the local gossip circle (=society) a whole lot of good...!

[JOHN2]

'Educate her' Ha ha ha.Serious question:WHERE DO THESE PEOPLE COME FROM???

So globlalj, are you going to to take the advise of a few here and invite her in for a cup of tea and a slice of cake, sit her down and 'educate' her?? Ha ha ha.

[Moonrakers]

'Educate her' Ha ha ha.Serious question:WHERE DO THESE PEOPLE COME FROM???

So globlalj, are you going to to take the advise of a few here and invite her in for a cup of tea and a slice of cake, sit her down and 'educate' her?? Ha ha ha.

Maybe I should get my best china ready.

[Old Croc]

:

I don't often bother reading these whinge about anything threads, but the title of this one caught my eye.

AND?

AND I READ THIS ONE ROY. DO YOU NEED EVERTHING SPELT OUT FOR YOU?

[RakJungTorlae]

give them an info sheet on epilepsy, preferably in Thai. That person may have been ignorant, but I suspect he/she was showing a iota of concern in at least asking about it.

I like this advice as well. Shove it in her face and let her have a read if she looks at you like a bimbo then follow “TheDon” advice and slap her silly.

[CCCP]

I think the original poster is WAY out of line with this.

1: No harm or ill will was intended on the part of the person making the comment. Not having intimate knowledge of all medical conditions is not a crime. If anything, she/he spoke out because of care and concern about your daughter. The world needs more people showing care and concern.

2: Instead of educating the person about your daughters condition, you choose to whine about it on an internet forum. That is not very productive.

3: The topic title is very offensive.

Honestly it all says a lot more about the original poster than about the incident, or indeed the person making the comment.

1: This persons actions, whether intentional or not, upset my wife a great deal and I am within my rights to put a stop to it if possible. If she was that concerned about my daughter then why does she not offer help or find out more. And how does accusing my wife and I of neglect help anything.

2: This whole thread is about me looking for advice on how to deal with this, which could prove to be productive depending on the advice that I am given.

3: Thank you for claryfing the offensiveness of the title, as that was my intention.

(Mods, please feel free to edit the title if I have over-stepped the mark), however I stick by it because I mean it.

Haven't read all the post but why don't you just politely thank her for her concern, but at the same point pointing out the condition your daughter has. You might find the person in question is quite reasonable. At the same time if she is still abuse and critises you of the situation then rip her tonsils out.

[mikethevigoman]

My brain tells me to leave it, as suggested but my heart tells me to give some back.

I am thinking of a controlled yet very public verbal display, I don't expect to achieve anything by it except for making this person lose face.

She is a woman by the way.

Go on the peace foot and ask " after your comments the other day we would like your advice ",. you can bet your life she wont have any and hopefully will appear a fool ,.

[jimmi]

I think it is indeed a sorry state that this woman (and others) can display this level of ignorance and insensitivity. Truely a indication on the Thai educational system, or lack there of. Hang in there and best wishes to you and your family. I don't think you will be able to change her, as she has a lifetime of being ingnorant. Good Luck!

[dave111223]

Why didn't you just say 'It's a medical condition call "epilepsy", and unfortunately our poor daughter cannot control the fits, but we are seeking medical treatments, thank you for your concern'.

Results:

- Fool is now educated, and will not make such comments again

- You feel better as there is now no tension between you and the fool

Or you could do as you did: Stomp out of the room, and wife getting pissed off.

Results:

- Fool wonders what the heck just happened

- Fool continues to wonder and comment on the fact that you do not control your child

- You and wife continue to feel angry until it eventually escalates into fisticuffs with fool.

If the person really is an ignorant fool as your title suggests why are you so angry? As this would mean that they did not know that it was a medical condition and thought it was just some kind of temper tantrum.

[Moonrakers]

Who suggested that I "Stomped out of the room"? If you read earlier in the thread then you will see that I stated that I wasn't even there.

My wife reacted by simply walking away, she wasn't prepared for such an outrageous comment which came unexpectedly and, I don't know how I would have reacted to be honest, although I'd be better prepared for it now as no doubt my wife will be. In fact after this event and reading of some chap with an epileptic wife on the Issan section then we now know to brace ourselves for more of this.

My wife was more upset than angry, she is smart enough to know not to listen to people like this but apart from it being suggested that she is being negligent, it also bought home an already existing concern about the possibility of permanent damage. I am angry because my wife was upset, and I do not believe that this person was acting out of concern as suggested (Although not a bad suggestion), instead I have every reason to be that it was a personal scathing attack on my wife.

It's all very easy to have it planned out what to do in advance, but we did not have the luxury of fore-sight here. But this is the point of me starting this thread and asking the question of how best to deal with it on the future.

[JSixpack]

Nothing you can do about uneducated ignorant fools like these unless you want to become a teacher and change the world.

I think its best to ignore them.

The sad fact is 30+ years ago it might have been said in the west too but I hope, in the main, we have more knowledge and awareness of these things now - Thailand might catch up eventually. You are dealing with a very supersticious not at all modern society that no amount of Merc's and million dollar condo's can cure instantly

+1

[Moonrakers]

I suspect that there will be no further developments with this individual, because as I have stated before any future confrontation will not be instigated by my wife or I, although I will update as if needed.

I have saved the link to this thread for future reference, because without doubt we will face similar scenarios in the future and I think that it could be both interesting and possibly useful to others as to how my wife and I learn to deal with it, and how the (Culprit?) responds to our reactions.

Thanks for your positive responses chaps and ladies, and thanks also to to (Most) of the not so positive posts as even they have given me something to think about, which is what I was looking for when starting this thread.

[sbk]

Aggressive posts suggesting illegal behavior have been removed. Please remember to read the forum rules before posting. Further such posts will result in action.

As for the rest, well, yes, she is clearly ignorant but probably had good intentions. She is not to know that you are treating your daughter as, most likely from her experience, many would not. I know of several people who have not treated their children's ailments merely because of ignorance.

An example, our neighbor's baby cried for the first six months, solid. I asked my husband what was the matter with the baby as we could hear him screaming and crying at our house, a few hundred meters away. He said the family felt it was the mother of the baby's fault because she was young and didn't know what she was doing. I suggested they needed to take the baby to the doctor as something was clearly wrong. After 6 months of this, they finally took the baby to the doctor. He had asthma.

So, next time you make value judgments about someone's intentions you might want to take a step back and look at things from their point of view.

[Moonrakers]

sbk:

I consider your criticism to be constructive and therefore it is appreciated, and I WILL bear it in mind for the future.

I do however disagree with you regarding her 'good intentions'. Although how could I possibly portray the full scenario on a forum? Perhaps a better writer could do so but I am not that writer.

I have taken a step back to re-asses this already after taking on board certain advice and comments from various posters earlier in the day, and I have also consulted my wife on the matter again after I got home from work and the 'prognosis ?' stands the same that it was a personal attack and not one spawn out of concern. If you lived in my apartment building then you would likely agree with me. Also if I am proven wrong then I give my word that I will post to that effect, as a farang I am not afraid of losing face.

Regardless, your points, and opinions of other posters are still valid to me because even though they may not apply in this case they may well do in future scenarios.

I would also like to add that I would like this thread to be kept clean, OK the the initial title to this thread was a bit OTT which may (Will) make me hypocritical in asking for a 'clean' thread. But it was feeling rather emotional (I actually still think that she is a bit of a C)

Anyway, it is WAY past my bedtime, and so g'night all.

[sbk]

No worries, I don't know the woman, don't know what kind of person she is, just wanted you to be aware that there are other possible scenarios.

And yes, I agree, lets try to keep this clean and constructive.

[tourleadersi]

No point trying to help this woman out of her ignorance, it is best to confront her and shout her down so that any possible future kindness and compassion that she may show towards your daughter once she understands her situation will well and truly be closed down.

I have helped people with Epilepsy before, it is a difficult, traumatic experience for everyone. I have seen some incredible reactions to people having fits, from amusement (callous to say the least) through to fainting and hysterics. The hysterics usually come from people who dont understand what is going on.

I am truly sorry that your little girl is suffering from Epilepsy, and I hope that one day soon she will be able to consign these episodes to a thing of the past.

Perhaps this lady saw that she was daughter of a farang, and wanted to know why you were letting her have the fits instead of paying for her to go to hospital and to be made better? Her opinions were definately not expressed tactfully, but then it seems to me that Thai's talk pretty straight to each other, in a way that most westerners find incredibly offensive. There are a couple of girls in my office who are perhaps slightly bigger than the average female in their age group, and they are continually being barracked for it. Seems to me like its water off a duck's back to them as back in the UK there would be hours of tears in the toilets later if the same things were said. This doesnt make it any less infuriating I am sure.

It also seems that Thai's have a far greater belief (mostly unfounded and misplaced) in the abilities of the health service, I would guess that this is more so the richer the individual and therefore the better care they can afford. My wife's Aunt had a massive stroke and they were dumbstruck when one of the top hospitals in the country couldnt save her. Perhaps when she said 'why are you letting her be sick' what she meant was 'why havent you taken her to Bumrungrad to solve her problem?' I could be wrong and I am sure I will be told by some that I am.

If your daughter does have to learn to live with Epilepsy, perhaps you might want to think about how your reactions to other peoples ignorance about it might affect her? She may have to go through life being hit with these kind of comments day by day. If she learnt to ignore the comments from strangers and to educate her peers she may have a less stressful future than if she feels she should confront other peoples ignorance.

To enlighten those who assume I must have no experience in the matter. I am a parent of a young boy. I have an autistic nephew. I have worked with children with special needs and seen how parents and carers react differently to the challenges faced by their child. When I was 20 I worked in a department store and one day a man came in and had a fit infront of me. I assisted him that time, and after that, because he knew I wouldnt harm him whilst he was fitting (often bystanders are the biggest danger to an epileptic) he would come and find me before he had his fit if he was in the area. This would happen on average a few times a month over about a year. I am no expert in any matters, but I do have a little pool of experience to draw from.

[sylviex]

Perhaps this lady saw that she was daughter of a farang, and wanted to know why you were letting her have the fits instead of paying for her to go to hospital and to be made better?

I thought about that possibility, too.

Globalj, does your wife have family/friends in the neighbourhood ? The regular presence of such people might either help open lines of communication with neighbours or create a buffer against any nastiness.

She (and you) might benefit from joining some kind of support group for parents of children with epilepsy or children with disorders/disabilities. If not in the local community. there must surely be some online groups for English speakers, and quite possibly Thai speakers, too. Having the support and understanding of others in a similar situation can make quite a difference, and you can learn a good deal from one another.

Edited July 4, 2008 by sylviex

[chuang]

Why condemned a woman for her ignorance...words like low-life-woman, cast her away are indeed powerful and vindictive.

Thai Buddhists believe in the KARMA..likewise people in the west or FARANG most of them believe in CHRISTIANITY and FORGIVENESS...When a Christian who for his whole life has done nothing good but bad deeds..like killing. stealing, raping and arson etc, is dying on his bed all he needs to do in order to go to Heaven is to confess his sins. What an easy way to Paradise.

KARMA AND CHRISTIANITY DIFERS..

I am wondering if the woman is not a Thai but a Farang would she be called an Ignorant, Stupid Fool......

Ignore her if you do not like her comments, unlest you cause you harm...

[JOHN2]

''I am wondering if the woman is not a Thai but a Farang would she be called an Ignorant, Stupid Fool......''

Yes!! It would make her an ever BIGGER ignorant,stupid fool,but let's be honest a farang would never have said what the Thai said

[chuang]

''I am wondering if the woman is not a Thai but a Farang would she be called an Ignorant, Stupid Fool......''

Yes!! It would make her an ever BIGGER ignorant,stupid fool,but let's be honest a farang would never have said what the Thai said

So I see, I presume farang is brainer than Thais