Permanent Residency

[Artisi]

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has recently applied for or is in the process of preparing an application for Permanent Residency. Your thoughts, ideas, information gathered would be appreciated.

I am starting on an application which I will present at the end of 2005, I am fully aware that this is not an easy process and a lot of preparation is needed to fully comply- thence my early start to getting all the info together.

First hand info. is appreciated, info you got from your 3rd cousins ex-boy friends mother doesn't really help as I already have plenty of this.

thnx for any help.

[Bobcat]

Hi Artisi,

There is a great deal of very valuable information on this very site. If you have not already done so, it is worth doing a search. Once you've had a chance to digest all of the information, then perhaps you could ask specific questions of those who have recently been through the process. I think you've given yourself more than ample time to get your documents together.

Cheers,

Bob

[Artisi]

Hi Artisi,

There is a great deal of very valuable information on this very site.  If you have not already done so, it is worth doing a search.  Once you've had a chance to digest all of the information, then perhaps you could ask specific questions of those who have recently been through the process.  I think you've given yourself more than ample time to get your documents together.

Cheers,

Bob

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Bobcat

I constantly check info as it is posted, unfortunately there seems to be a lot of conflicting detail posted at times. Guess I'm looking for some of the finer points if you've been there.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Hi Artisi,

There is a great deal of very valuable information on this very site.  If you have not already done so, it is worth doing a search.  Once you've had a chance to digest all of the information, then perhaps you could ask specific questions of those who have recently been through the process.  I think you've given yourself more than ample time to get your documents together.

Cheers,

Bob

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Bobcat

I constantly check info as it is posted, unfortunately there seems to be a lot of conflicting detail posted at times. Guess I'm looking for some of the finer points if you've been there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Websites are always famous for conflicting information. Those that have done it have answered before, and are reluctant to keep doing it over and over. A search is the way to go, and only listen to those that have done it.

[danone]

hi artisi

first of all - the fact that you take your proper time before submitting your application is worthwile and shows the necessary caution and respect. I'm sure you will sail through on way or another.

I just got my residency granted after applying in late 01. so the first rule is: not being impatient. the process has its own life and takes its own time. with the upcoming elections and probably a new interior minister the process may be delayed again in one or the other way - but you know how things are run here: finally you get there.

the very basic facts you have to be aware of:

- at least three years of uninterrupted work permit

- a monthly salary of at least 70-80k (some say 50k, but that was some years ago)

- a clean background

- respect for the thai people and nationhood - the "riep roi"-factor

- it helps to have good connections here in thailand, which can be submitted in the form of fotos, a personal "show up", whatever

- if you're married to a thai women, they eagerly test her background. unfortunately they dont accept certain backgrounds.

- nationality-wise there's the yearly quota, but in reality the quota does not seem to exist anymore (with the exception for the chinese and indians). as per law each nation can be granted a 100 residency permits per year. but in reality its only a handfull or dozen per year of each nationality.

if you can live with these basics, the application process is painful and long, but you get through.

good luck! -

[Bobcat]

Danone - what a bummer you had to wait so long. Most people who applied in 2003 and who got through have already been approved. There was a backlog for the last 4 years or so when I understand the previous two Ministers did not approve any applications. The backlog has now been cleared.

At myinterview I was told that out of 100 points - 70 are for your application/background etc and the remaining 30 are for your Thai language skills - as tested in a video introduction of yourself and in a multiple choice test. I was also told that you must pass both parts. - ie you need 35 out of 70 for background and 15 out of 30 for the Thai language skills. I am not sure who closely they adhere to this.

The reason that only a handful of westerners are approved is becuase only a handful apply - and certainly not 100. For example, only 10 Australians applied in 2003. On the other hand, there are I am told thousands of Indians and Chinese who apply.

After all is said and done, I believe that the most important factor is your salary. As long as your salary meets the requirements (at least 80K per month was used last year as a guide) and all of your other documents are in order, you should be fine.

Regards,

Bob

[danone]

tks for mentioning bob, you're right, the thai language test.

consists of a personal introduction of oneself and a multiple choice test - a thai crash course in advance is certainly in order if one is not that eloquant in basic thai ...

yes bob, I was exactly in that year that took so long ... 3 interior ministers ... and we applied under the old fees but had to pay the new ones ...

well, hope its a once-a-lifetime-fee ...

[sas_cars]

80k per month?does it must have to be gotten for 3 consecutive years?or it is ok if we had it increased only the last year of the 3 consecutive years?

[camerata]

consists of a personal introduction of oneself and a multiple choice test - a thai crash course in advance is certainly in order if one is not that eloquant in basic thai ...

How does the multiple choice test work? It's a verbal test?

[boris]

hi artisi

first of all - the fact that you take your proper time before submitting your application is worthwile and shows the necessary caution and respect. I'm sure you will sail through on way or another.

I just got my residency granted after applying in late 01. so the first rule is: not being impatient. the process has its own life and takes its own time. with the upcoming elections and probably a new interior minister the process may be delayed again in one or the other way - but you know how things are run here: finally you get there.

the very basic facts you have to be aware of:

- at least three years of uninterrupted work permit

- a monthly salary of at least 70-80k (some say 50k, but that was some years ago)

- a clean background

- respect for the thai people and nationhood - the "riep roi"-factor

- it helps to have good connections here in thailand, which can be submitted in the form of fotos, a personal "show up", whatever

- if you're married to a thai women, they eagerly test her background. unfortunately they dont accept certain backgrounds.

- nationality-wise there's the yearly quota, but in reality the quota does not seem to exist anymore (with the exception for the chinese and indians). as per law each nation can be granted a 100 residency permits per year. but in reality its only a handfull or dozen per year of each nationality.

if you can live with these basics, the application process is painful and long, but you get through.

good luck! -

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not so sure all of this is fully correct but I guess a lot of subjectivity involved.Of the successful applicants I know most were earning well over Bt 250,000 pm but key issue is i think not the amount of money earned but prestige/stature of job.High level support doesn't hurt but is not a key ingredient.Rieproi factor (neat and tidy/well mannered presentation) is important but that has nothing at all to do with respect for Thai people or nationhood which cannot be quantified.

[danone]

always thankful for the contrarian inputs of boris.

I must say my job is not prestigious and I'm not earning 250k baht a month - so draw your own conclusions.

the verbal multiple choice in my year gave you a choice between three answers to one question - no rocket science though, just like how many seasons there are in thailand, formal titel of the prime minister, and so on.

regarding the earning period: somewhere it says that applicant has to provide such earning over a period of time - in my case it was over that year that was relevant for my application (therefore it did not hurt to pay good taxes that year)

[Moose4]

Hi all,

Just want to clarify something since I have heard different stories from differnt sources. I am a 39 year old, un-married Canadian national and have lived here in Bangkok for almost 15 years (common law with gf for past 4 years with plans to marry).

Up until now I havent bothered with the residency permit because the benefits werent really all that evident to me. I graduated from a Thai University (ABAC) in 1995 have had work permits for the past 9 years or so. The problem has been that over the past few years (for some strange reason) I keep getting 90 day "under consideration" stamps in the passport when applying for the WP. This little problem has now interupted my successive 3 x 1-year visa stamps. The questions is, if I can show evidence of long stay in Thailand with nothing but B-Visa's (and WP's), evidence of export activity (if that is applicable) and perhaps evidence of Thai University education - is there still a chance that the PR is possible? Marriage certificate? (if so, better get off my butt and buy a diamond ring). Lastly, I am a Director in several companies and I pay myself (officially) at teh bare minimum (now 60K for Canadians). Would I have to up my salary to 80K?

The only reason I want PR is to start the ball rolling on Thai citizenship. I figure its about time and Canada is just too ###### cold !!

Thanks folks !

[Sulaphat]

The problem has been that over the past few years (for some strange reason) I keep getting 90 day "under consideration" stamps in the passport when applying for the WP.  This little problem has now interupted my successive 3 x 1-year visa stamps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Were you still on the same extension of stay of your original non-immigrant visa when these "under consideration" stamps were issued? Or did you leave Thailand and come back in on a new non-immigrant visa each time? When extending one's permission to stay on an annual basis under a non-immigrant visa while the WP is being renewed it is common to get 30 or 90 day "under consideration" stamps until the WP is sorted. These "under considerations" don't break the chain of your non-immigrant visa in and of themselves. Different story if you went out of Thailand and came back in on new non-immigrant visa.

[BillyZ]

I will share my experience here. I applied last year, starting the process around September 2003 and turning in the application around Christmas time. I paid BIG BUCKS to use the services of a company which is VERY well connected, so my experience is probably not indicative of what you may expect if you’re doing it on your own.

My first year's non-Imm B visa was sponsored by Unocal. The 2nd and 3rd year was sponsored by Chevron. But between the two, I had to let #1 expire, leave the country for a day and then get #2. But since only the sponsorship was different, I was working for the same (service) company and since the break was only due to procedural requirements, they accepted this as 3 consecutive years (again, it may depend on who's asking if this is OK when talking to Immigration...)

For what it’s worth, I think that they DO allow a bit of leeway when considering the 3 year rule. What they will not allow is you having 2 or 3 different jobs (and visas/WPs) in 3 years. If you’re with the same company for the last 3 years, I think you’ll have a pretty good shot.

My application started off based on my 3 years with the visa/WP. But then they decided to base it on my (nearly) 5 year marriage to my Thai wife (I think it’s gotta be 5 years, and not a recent marriage), who isn't in a "questionable" profession. So that cut the price from 194,000 baht to 97,000 baht. I think there are basically 5 ways you can qualify, but only the Thai relation-based visa will get you the 97,000 baht price.

While waiting for my interview in March 2004, I met a Thai guy out in the hallway at Suan Plu, near room 301. We were chatting and I was going to give him a hard time for blowing smoke my way. But I thought, ######, if this was a bar, I wouldn't think twice about the smoke. We got to talking, he asked if I was going for PR, and I said yes. He asked why I wanted it, after all, it's a lot of effort to go through. I gave the usual "people, food, jai dee attitude" etc. He pointed to the room and said, "They like to hear that you like the culture and customs of Thailand, don't forget to say that." He then put out his cigarette and said that he had to get back inside.

It wasn't until an hour later that I found out that he is THE man who OKs applications! What he was talking about when he said "they" is the committee who views your interview, which is recorded. When doing the interview (on tape) it's good to speak polite Thai, even if you're not strong in the language.

Also, make sure you are familiar with formal names for the Royal Thai family and for the government. You will need to know this for the interview and especially for the 10 question, multiple choice test. There are 10 different tests, and on each test, there are 10 questions. You will get any ONE of these tests and you won’t know ahead of time what the questions are (unless you know someone…..). If you know about the government a bit (who the Prime Minister is) and the Royal Family (which reign the current king is in), then you should do OK. Some other questions are as basic as what color is not in the Thai flag, what is an airplane (in Thai), etc.

It's important to be relaxed at the interview. Just be yourself, have fun, don't talk in monotone and don't be afraid to joke with the interviewer. Show that you're not a stick in the mud. They like animation and personality in people. But be polite, as well. Use 'krup' often when talking. And if you tend to speak a lot of Isaan Thai, as I'm used to with my wife, try to use "central Thai" during the interview. Again, the interview is part verbal (taped) and part multiple choice.

Another thing that weighs heavily in your favor if you’re going for a family-based PR is having Thai kids, of your own or properly adopted. For me, I had a vasectomy 5 years ago and no kids. And that kind of freaked them out. It was kind of freaky how freaked out they were about it. Weird. I had it done at Bangkok Nursing Home in 1999. That hospital was fine for me to get my physical at. But when I gave them the records of the operation and the note from the doctor from BNH, they said it wasn’t good enough. I had to have it from a government hospital.

Well, this is one example of going through a lot of hoops. I tried to get the ONE doctor (not the one who did the operation) who works at BNH and a government hospital (Sirikit, across from Lumpini) to sign a form saying that he could vouch for the operation. Of course he didn’t do it, I wouldn’t have, either. After going around and around over this (and it looking for a while like it was going to be a deal breaker), I finally gave a sample at the Sirikit hospital in Sattahip (near where I work). They wrote up something along the lines of “based on the hospital records and on what we’ve analyzed in the sample, we can say that Mr Z has had a vasectomy.” What a MAJOR hassle. But that’s the type of stuff you can expect.

Like I said, I had a service helping me out with this. And I would not have gotten the PR without them. Partially because they know exactly who to talk to to resolve issues, what to say and how to get around problems. Also, my Thai isn’t up to the level that it needed to be to get all of this done AND I’m not living in Bangkok. This cost me several hundred thousand baht, but it was well worth it and if you’re not sure about your eligibility, then I would recommend going with a service. If you’d like to know the one I went with, send me a private message. They won’t take your application if they can’t get you the visa. No visa, no charge. But if you’re Thai is up to speed and you have a solid application, you’re probably best doing it on your own.

My permit was issued last month. My red book was issued a week later and a week after that, I got my house book (which is yellow, Bobcat said I should have a blue one, which I’ll look into). So now I’m “half Thai” and have less than 5 years to go to get my Thai passport.

Good luck and be VERY nice to strange men in the hallway outside of room 301!!!

[Potter]

So now I’m “half Thai” and have less than 5 years to go to get my Thai passport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For how long will you be allowed to keep your original passport when actually having gotten PR ?

There are disadvantages when having a Thai passport.

[PvtDick]

So now I’m “half Thai” and have less than 5 years to go to get my Thai passport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For how long will you be allowed to keep your original passport when actually having gotten PR ?

There are disadvantages when having a Thai passport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a PR, you retain your original citizenship and passport. You just have permanent right to residence in Thailand, that's all.

Once you become a Thai citizen -- and become eligible for a Thai passport -- you can then decide whether or not you want to renounce your original citizenship. I understand, though, that it is not a problem to remain a dual national.

[BillyZ]

From what I'm told, and for the time being, Americans can keep two passports. Apparently, there are a few other nationalities that have this privilage, too, Swedes amongst them. If it came down to it, I'd keep the American citizenship, only so that I could vote for Bush after he amends the constitution allowing him to run for a third term....

Kidding, kidding....

[danone]

wow billy, you got it in less than a year - thats pretty smooth. so they cleaned up their act.

you have any figures of how many applied and got rejected/approved in your year?

regarding the tabien baan: my understanding is that you only get the blue one if you put your name into the tabien baan of your wife/thai family.

if we as foreigners get tabien baans they're the other ones (as when you buy a condo if I'm not mistaken)

[PvtDick]

You get the regular blue tabien baan as soon as you achieve PR status, whether married or not. I am single, and got my yellow one changed for a blue one when my PR was approved.

[faranginbkk]

I have lived and worked in Thailand for ten years. Good jobs, but my current salary is (only) 60,000 so when I applied for PR, it failed. I think I fullfilled the other criteria, and I was the only applicant from my (west Euro) country. Do I have to go through the whole process all over again, or is there a shortcut? Perhaps I should have objected to the decision, raised my salary to 80,000, and asked them to re-consider.......? I don't really know their way of thinking.

They also hinted that the company you work for (I am CEO), should have a registered capital of minimum 20 mill Baht. Does anybody know about this criterium? Thanks.

[PvtDick]

From what I'm told, and for the time being, Americans can keep two passports. Apparently, there are a few other nationalities that have this privilage, too, Swedes amongst them. If it came down to it, I'd keep the American citizenship, only so that I could vote for Bush after he amends the constitution allowing him to run for a third term....

Kidding, kidding....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bush is one good reason one might want to give up one's US citizenship (the other, of course, being the IRS). On the other hand, Thailand has never produced a leader that's much better...

[Moose4]

Were you still on the same extension of stay of your original non-immigrant visa when these "under consideration" stamps were issued? Or did you leave Thailand and come back in on a new non-immigrant visa each time? When extending one's permission to stay on an annual basis under a non-immigrant visa while the WP is being renewed it is common to get 30 or 90 day "under consideration" stamps until the WP is sorted. These "under considerations" don't break the chain of your non-immigrant visa in and of themselves. Different story if you went out of Thailand and came back in on new non-immigrant visa.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, did not leave the country, just got extension of stay visa as usual.

[BillyZ]

It sounds like the local land office screwed up my ta bien ban, even with a letter from the Immgration and all. It's cool, I'll get it changed to a better looking blue soon enough.

[PvtDick]

I have lived and worked in Thailand for ten years.  Good jobs, but my current salary is (only) 60,000 so when I applied for PR, it failed.  I think I fullfilled the other criteria, and I was the only applicant from my (west Euro) country.  Do I have to go through the whole process all over again, or is there a shortcut?  Perhaps I should have objected to the decision, raised my salary to 80,000, and asked them to re-consider.......?  I don't really know their way of thinking. 

They also hinted that the company you work for (I am CEO), should have a registered capital of minimum 20 mill Baht.  Does anybody know about this criterium?  Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The company I worked for at the time I got PR had capitalization of only 6 million baht. I imagine the more capital the better, but like most other considerations, it is only one of many things that goes into the decision pool.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

So now I’m “half Thai” and have less than 5 years to go to get my Thai passport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For how long will you be allowed to keep your original passport when actually having gotten PR ?

There are disadvantages when having a Thai passport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He can keep his original citizenship forever. PR is not citizenship. In any event, provided that his country of origin permits duality, he can keep both nationalities.

[danone]

most can keep both nationalities, thats no longer an issue.

but am wondering if I even want to apply for citizenship here. would have to change one's name, running again from here to there ... dont see real benefits.

the leap from a yearly visa to the permanent was my main aim to go for PR.

lets see how tasty citizenship will look like in a few years ...

[Artisi]

Thanks for the constructive input so far, it has been helpful.

[faranginbkk]

The company I worked for at the time I got PR had capitalization of only 6 million baht.  I imagine the more capital the better, but like most other considerations, it is only one of many things that goes into the decision pool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not so sure they look at the whole picture. I used to be a UN employee, and in my present job pays all kinds of taxes (personal income tax, corporate income tax, social security tax, VAT, withholding tax). I speak Thai quite ok. But, I am under the impression that if one factor, such as salary or capitalization, is not within their range, it does not matter that you have other factors working in your favour.

Also, they are NOT transparent about the criteria. If they could state clearly what the requirements are, it would save us a lot of (wasted) time and money.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The company I worked for at the time I got PR had capitalization of only 6 million baht.  I imagine the more capital the better, but like most other considerations, it is only one of many things that goes into the decision pool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not so sure they look at the whole picture. I used to be a UN employee, and in my present job pays all kinds of taxes (personal income tax, corporate income tax, social security tax, VAT, withholding tax). I speak Thai quite ok. But, I am under the impression that if one factor, such as salary or capitalization, is not within their range, it does not matter that you have other factors working in your favour.

Also, they are NOT transparent about the criteria. If they could state clearly what the requirements are, it would save us a lot of (wasted) time and money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is anything from the Thai government ever transparent ?

[danone]

farang in bkk: they let you know from the very beginning how your chances are.

its not that much of a waste of time and money if one keeps no illusions.

whoever clearly fails gets informed very quickly or is not even allowed to apply.

dont think applying for residency is much easier anywhere else.