For Expats With Kids

[mizzi39]

I worked as a trauma nurse and know quite a bit about car accidents. When I see my Thai neighbours not using car seats or allowing their children on motorbikes I don't get all judgemental. Everyone brings up their children in the best way they can, and it is hard enough without everyone else deciding how things should be done. I personally try and use a car seat when my son will settle in it, but he likes to be held some of the time.

I think that we should all concentrate on raising our own kids, but I know that this is not likely to happen.

I do agree that we should all concentrate on raising our own kids. I am also aware of the fact that many Thai families can barely afford their motorbike payment along with the little seat attached to the front for the "wee one", so a car (and car seat) do not even factor in when it comes to safety for their children, so no judgment being past (at least from me). The OP was about EXPATS using car seats or taking their kids on motorbikes, but like many posters, this poster strayed a little off topic. I will take the liberty to stray a little off topic too.. I think that at times we expats have a hard time not voicing our "western standards" thinking that the rest of the world should adopt "our way of doing things".

I always feel uneasy when I see a Thai family on a motorbike. Dad, mom, and Mom cradling the little one, and feel grateful that I can afford a car knowing that the motorbike is all this family can afford, and although I insist that my child is strapped into his seat I guess that i pay very little attention and take very little notice as to whether or not, other parents are doing the same. Thais are very attentive to their children, so I do not agree that "dad" would rather spend 10,000 baht on a sound system for his car than to provide his child with a seat, but I do not see a national campaign happening anytime soon (if ever) promoting the use of car seats. First the issue of children on motorbikes would need to be addressed and this has more to do with economics vs. safety since a car in the LOS costs as much as a car in the west and the "average" Thai family does not even come close to matching an average western income. It is important to remember that what would make the 11 o'clock news back home is a normal everyday occurrence here, so yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it is even more important sometimes to put your opinion aside and "go with the flow" (for sanity sake).

Edited July 26, 2008 by mizzi39

[Flatouthruthefog]

travelling at 120k ,wouldnt make any difference if the baby was strapped in ,you'll all die anyway

Your opinion.

In a brief attempt to answer the OP (and also to support yoo, Boo, against totally ill-informed comment about the results of road accidents, Thai speed limits, et al, ad nauseam!):

a) Our modest 9 year old hatchback with folding rear seats has no rear seat belts and I'm reliably informed they cannot be fitted to properly cope with/restrain a child seat. Thus Mum and our lad (almost 3) ALWAYS travel in the back seat, despite the inconvenience of this not being a 4 door car. And yes, I always do get out and move the front passenger seat to let them in and out. Thai Mum and luk-krung lad accept this 100%, tho I do worry about peer group pressure when the boy gets older.

The boy will never, ever, knowingly (ie Mum and I) ride on a motorcycle. While having a day with mother in law we heard that he had done a short local journey with brother in law on his bike. We sat down and had a serious chat with the family and my wife made it crystal clear that this will not happen again. Since then, all fine. Although we do have a Honda Dream our boy ignores it and happily is 'car mad'.

My biggest cringe factor is when I see Thai bike and car (front seat) occupants with infants on their knees while driving. Car DRIVERS as well as passengers! Those children are involuntary air bags OR heading for the first (and last) trip through the windscreen in a big impact.

In my own case, banning bikes; having my little team in the rear seat and driving carefully is the best I can do and afford for the present.

[sibeymai]

I've posted my thoughts on this thread already.....in the absence of anything positive from the government in the realm of road safety i can only assume that the government's attitude is that there are enough Thais already.

[ZigZagdiver]

In a brief attempt to answer the OP (and also to support yoo, Boo, against totally ill-informed comment about the results of road accidents, Thai speed limits, et al, ad nauseam!):

a) Our modest 9 year old hatchback with folding rear seats has no rear seat belts and I'm reliably informed they cannot be fitted to properly cope with/restrain a child seat. Thus Mum and our lad (almost 3) ALWAYS travel in the back seat, despite the inconvenience of this not being a 4 door car. And yes, I always do get out and move the front passenger seat to let them in and out. Thai Mum and luk-krung lad accept this 100%, tho I do worry about peer group pressure when the boy gets older.

The boy will never, ever, knowingly (ie Mum and I) ride on a motorcycle. While having a day with mother in law we heard that he had done a short local journey with brother in law on his bike. We sat down and had a serious chat with the family and my wife made it crystal clear that this will not happen again. Since then, all fine. Although we do have a Honda Dream our boy ignores it and happily is 'car mad'.

My biggest cringe factor is when I see Thai bike and car (front seat) occupants with infants on their knees while driving. Car DRIVERS as well as passengers! Those children are involuntary air bags OR heading for the first (and last) trip through the windscreen in a big impact.

In my own case, banning bikes; having my little team in the rear seat and driving carefully is the best I can do and afford for the present.

I presume the front seat has a seatbelt? and I bet you wear one? Why not put a car seat for your 3 year old in the front?

[Boo]

If a front passanger air bag can't be disabled (as with my car) then it is not advised to have the childseat in the front seat.

[garro]

In a brief attempt to answer the OP (and also to support yoo, Boo, against totally ill-informed comment about the results of road accidents, Thai speed limits, et al, ad nauseam!):

a) Our modest 9 year old hatchback with folding rear seats has no rear seat belts and I'm reliably informed they cannot be fitted to properly cope with/restrain a child seat. Thus Mum and our lad (almost 3) ALWAYS travel in the back seat, despite the inconvenience of this not being a 4 door car. And yes, I always do get out and move the front passenger seat to let them in and out. Thai Mum and luk-krung lad accept this 100%, tho I do worry about peer group pressure when the boy gets older.

The boy will never, ever, knowingly (ie Mum and I) ride on a motorcycle. While having a day with mother in law we heard that he had done a short local journey with brother in law on his bike. We sat down and had a serious chat with the family and my wife made it crystal clear that this will not happen again. Since then, all fine. Although we do have a Honda Dream our boy ignores it and happily is 'car mad'.

My biggest cringe factor is when I see Thai bike and car (front seat) occupants with infants on their knees while driving. Car DRIVERS as well as passengers! Those children are involuntary air bags OR heading for the first (and last) trip through the windscreen in a big impact.

In my own case, banning bikes; having my little team in the rear seat and driving carefully is the best I can do and afford for the present.

I presume the front seat has a seatbelt? and I bet you wear one? Why not put a car seat for your 3 year old in the front?

So you are saying it is safer to have a toddler in the front seat in a car-seat than in the back with his mother?

Sometimes ignorance can get you kill faster than a lack of car seat.

[chatette]

We used safety and booster seats with harness and are now down to basic seat belt, without which the car doesn't move or is stopped if it is in motion.

The ignorance of basic road safety in Thailand is disgraceful and encompasses much more than effectively harnessing children. Philo's comments on dealing with this, however, are totally unconstructive and defeatist.

As several people have mentioned, one can apply one's own rules when in control of the situation and try to avoid those in the hands of others of a different mind set.

[Boo]

If either (front seat or back seat) in a proper car seat then there isn't any difference (according to current up to date advice) providing the front air bag is disabled, back seat in car seat is preferred as top option though.

I can't see what mum being in the car & where she sits in relation to the toddlers seat has got to do with ignorance?

[Boo]

I really think you should do what you want with your own kids but after reading the following from this website I just wouldn't personally risk it & think it is silly for the people who don't practice car safety with their kids to claim that holding a baby on a lap is safer than in a car seat.

Carrying Children Safely

This information is also available in PDF format (177kb)

In a crash at just 30 mph, an unrestrained child would be thrown forward with a force 30 to 60 times their body weight. They would be thrown about inside the vehicle, injuring themselves and quite possibly seriously injuring (or even killing) other people inside the vehicle. They are also likely to be ejected from the car through one of the windows.

It is not safe to hold a child on your lap. In a crash, the child could be crushed between your body and part of the car's interior. Even if you are using a seat belt, the child would be torn from your arms - you would not be able to hold onto them, no matter how hard you try.

It is also dangerous to put a seat belt around yourself and a child (or around two children).

The safest way for children to travel in cars is in a child seat that is suitable for their weight and size.

I would just never be able to forgive or live with myself if I had the ability to protect my son but chose not to cause thats how "it's done in Thailand"!

[philo]

This thread should be left to dust and rust ...

OK, the farang thinks safety ? But what about the family of the wife - 4 or 5 persons on a motorbike. And one (unattached) helmet for the adult riding with four kids with no helmet ...

And what about the roads - there's no real rules - a big part of Thailand's older generation cannot even read Thai - you can by a driving licence and go pick up'ing (you do not need one to ride a water buffalo) for a few hundred bahts ...

If you have a child, get it out of Thailand as soon as possible ..

[frenchFARANGbkk]

Funny to have to try to explain to people that they should protect their children.

Maybe the same ones who cry when the worst happen.

[garro]

Funny to have to try to explain to people that they should protect their children.

Maybe the same ones who cry when the worst happen.

I don't think that it's funny that some people try to tell others how they should care for their chlldren. Irritating and arrogant perhaps, but funny?... No.

The worst can happen despite anybody's best efforts, and any person who would have the attitude of 'I told you so' towards somebody who has lost a child is a scumbag.

[phetpeter]

Like most things in Thailand is how can you educate people to take more care. When in the UK it has become very hard to get a motorbike lience, until you can prove that you can drive a motorbike well! Then the farang come here jump on a motorbike and think that know it all! then with cash in their pockets they go out and by a big truck or suv. and the truth is most have the skills to drive well, but lack the skills for driving big trucks, and think that everybody else is driving out of their way. In the car they think a car seat is a wasted expense, when they see and know, that the wife will go on a motorbike, baby hanging in her arm like jackson photo call. and holding a conversation on the mobile while jumping the lights.

Go figure! just take care with kids in the car, give yourself pently of room and distance and read the road ahead. Be perpared to take actions if a situration occurs.

And hopefully the kid will grow up to care for you in your old age!

Edited August 9, 2008 by peterandcat

[blue eyes]

I always like for the little ones to be restrained in their safety seats not only for safety but when they get rowdy I just turn up the stereo and ignore them. Their restrained remember.The big problem that I have with the motorcy is getting the saftey seat to fit on it.I did get it to fit on the handel bars one time what a trip that was.You see we were headed down highway 2 from the village to Phi Mai.She was straped in tightly and had her lid on,me to for safety.You see you never know when a bus or a truck is going to run you over. By the time we got to Phi Mai she was full,bugs and all, so no need to eat.The return trip was not so much fun though.You see it was time for her nap so she was a little cranky.I was in a hurry to get home so I guess going 100km on a little motorcy with the wind in her face made it a little hard for her to sleep.

Seriously I can never understand why my relitives look at me like I am crazy for wanting to put the little ones in safety seats.They incest on wearing seat belts in the front seat but see no need for them in the back seat.A little kid can sit anywhere with no seat belts as long as an adult is holding them.Except in the bed of the pick up then the kid has the run of it.Go figure.I do not see that many accidents but when I do it is many times fatal.SEAT BELTS and SAFETY SEATS SAFE LIVES PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!