Bangkok airways deposit to work

[Bob Chittie]

No, I'm not posting again on allegations of corruption at another Airline. And please note that the following information is based on speaking directly with HR at Bangkok Airways. So to the Good Doctor and others, please no remarks about my 'pure specualtion'.

Bangkok Airways is currrently hiring. Whenever they hire, they place an ad in the BKK post which invites girls from all over Thailand to come and apply. Usually they get many, many applciants (at least a couple thousand). Applciants must pass a number of interviews over a few weeks. If they pass them all, they are of course offered the job.

At this point Bangkok Airways informs the excited woman or man that they must sign a contract for 3 years. Along with this contract, they must deposit 100,000 Baht to an account. Neither they or Bangkok Airways can touch it UNLESS, the new flight attendant leaves the airline before three years is up in which case it becomes the money of Bangkok Airways. If they stay the three years, the flight attendant gets their money back.

For many applicants, this is shocking news. Many do not have an extra 100,000 Baht. (Thus the need to find a job). Bangkok Airways doesn't advertise the wages they pay, but from what I've heard, 100.000 baht represents 4 or 5 months work.

Anyway, I guess I'm just looking to see if I am the only one who thinks this is strange at best and dishonest at worst. I also wonder if it is even legal. Shouldn't they advertise from the beginning that you must have 100,000 Baht to get the job and you will lose this money if you don't stay 3 years?  Instead, they wait until they make the job offer to an excited candidate who has already spent time and money applying. Is this 'deposit to work' policy the norm in any industry?

Anyone have any thoughts?

[wilson steer]

I have given this topic much thought and have reached the following conclusions:

1. I think that it is unfair if the applicant is not told about the 100,000 baht rule before application is made or during interviews. However I suspect that the applicant will get to know one way or another, through gossip, word of mouth, leakage from other employees etc. There are no secrets in Thailand, although some knowledge is never uttered. (There is whole other topic there!)

2. Assuming the applicant is sucessful, then raising this money might be difficult. However I suspect that most applicants come from the more comfortable financial families. I am sure the sucessful applicant has received a good education and that his/her family will be 'connected'.

3. If the successful applicant is not able to raise the money, family will usually help out, loans can be gotten easily in Thailand, and I would expect the money would be raised one way or another.

4. At first glance this 100,000  baht appears unfair and cruel but there are many points to consider. The airline will train and teach this cabin crew applicant to world-class standards, they will arrange uniforms and baggage etc. The airline will 'invest' in this applicant. Such a financial bind could work wonders for staff loyalty. If the 3 year contract is broken they lose their money.

5. Thais are faddish, and fickle, if no such bond existed, the applicants might switch airlines after six months, women might fall pregnant, men might fear losing their deposit and not be so lazy.

6. In an ideal world, the applicants would sign a one year contract and pay no 'bond' money. But Thailand is a third world country, where such a job is valuable. Healthcare is probably provided to staff and family, as it is in the armed forces and other services.

7. Conclusion, I would suggest a compromise; a two year contract, a 50,000 bond, reduced to 25,000 baht upon completion of the first years service.

[Bob Chittie]

Hi Wilson,

Yes I think you make some good points. In my mind if Bangkok Airways simply advertised this policy, then while I still think it unfair, its not really my business to say. But wating until the applicant has been accepted just seems wrong. The word gets out through gossip, but it remains just that and no one knows for sure. That's why I decided to contact HR and ask myself.

I do agree that most would come up with the money. However, think of it like this. You go through a long interview process for a job that pays $50,000 a year. At the final interview, the boss says, 'Wilson, we think you'd make a great addition to our team here. Welcome aboard'. He then says, 'Of course we will need a $20,000 deposit, which you will forfeit should you leave within three years'. Even if you coudl come up with the money, how would you feel? Would you feel a little pissed off that they didn't tell you this little fact from the beginning?

But maybe one just has to accept that things are different here. However, it doesn't make it any less dissapointing for those friends of mine who are half way through the interview process now realising that they will need to find 100,000 Baht should they get the job. For the average Thai, especially the average 20-23 year old thai (even with a university degree), 100,000 baht is significant and to be sure, there are people currently applying who would struggle to come up with the money should they be hired.

[exchange1973]

Hi Bob and Wilson,

I wonder if this behavior of ThaiAirways is conform with thai-law! I only can compare with european IT-sector. I never heard about such behavior and when set the focus on Germany it will break the law. The law ensures that the employee can leave the company everytime but had to pay attention to period of cancellation. BUT things change if the company pays some trainings.Then you, as the employee, have to agree that you don't leave the company within a determined period. You don't have anything to pay. If you get off the company within this period you have to pay a determined part of the costs of the trainings. But Attention, this is only valid for real trainings, not a "training on the job". This procedure is used if the company pays for a training like a MSP (Microsoft certified professional) or a CCNA (Cisco certified network admin). But when an employee gets such a training it ended up with a certificate with the name of the employee (not the company). So when you leave the company immediate after getting the certificate, the company pays for nothing and you had improve your chances to get a better job. So I think, that practise is fair.

BUT, I think ThaiAirways don't pay the cabin crew a MCP / CCNA, right?

To make a long story short: This ThaiAirways practice is more than unfair and supports the argumentation of getting "well connected / rich" employees!

Greetings from Berlin!

Exchange1973

[Bob Chittie]

Hi Exchange.

Actually it is Bangkok Airways, but maybe this is indicative of the Thai airlines in general. There is some training of course, but there is with any job. I'm glad that so far its not just me who thinks this deposit before you work thing is a little strange. I wonder if its even legal here. If it is legal, I wonder if its legal not to disclose this to applicants until they've been approved for the job.

[wolf5370]

exchange1973,

I worked for a Software house in the UK about 6 years ago (I know current employees and the practice continues). Their contract states that you can not leave for 1 year - some where signed up for 2 years, though this seems to have been reduced back to 1 year. If the co. pays for a course, MSCE etc, then they have to agree, contractually, not to leave for an extra 6 months to 2 years (heard several different periods demanded of several people).

A court case a few years back when an IT employee was forced to sign a similar agreement for, I think, 5 years went to court. The court said the clause was legal, but excessive. They allow for 1 years (obiter), but more could be counted as excessive and hard to enforce legally.

As it is easy for a Thai to 'disappear', it seems an understandable measure to try and keep expensively trained staff. Maybe a fairer way would be to keep the bulk of the first few months pay as a bond - to allow poorer applicants.

Whichever, it should be in the small print of the ad and highlighted at the first interview etc. Why keep it a secret?

[ChiangMaiThai]

I agree. If its their policy, then it should be stated in the ad from the very beginning. And for the poorer candidates, they should definitely allow the 100,000 to be taken from a percentage of each month's wage.