Us Amity Company

[wasabi]

I have been reading the threads about telecommuting with interest. As a result I've began researching starting a US Amity Company to do this legally. I would be doing IT work for American clients over the internet.

I went to Sunbelt and discussed this. I was told the following. Is this correct?

If I have a US Amity company I can get a work permit and can do so while on an ED visa as long as an appeal letter is sent requesting special approval. At a later date when I'm finished studying I can switch to a Non Imm B visa in Penang.

I do not need any Thai employees if my company is a limited company. I would be required to have them if I had a sole proprietorship

What's the difference between Limited Companies and Sole Proprietorships in regards to Amity companies?

I can be the only employee. The reason I care is I don't need anyone besides myself to perform the work required.

So far everyone at Sunbelt has been very helpful but in life I always get second opinions before putting my capital on the line.

[lopburi3]

If I have a US Amity company I can get a work permit and can do so while on an ED visa as long as an appeal letter is sent requesting special approval.

That appears to be in conflict with earlier reporting of work permit change and that ED visa could no longer be used (and that retirement could). But perhaps the "special approval" is the key.

[wasabi]

Also if I switch to the Non Imm B visa I was told I will need to make border runs every 90 days. Does this need to be done if one doesn't meet the requirement of having Thai employees? Perhaps you can't be granted an extension of stay in country with no employees but can continually renew every 90 days by way of border crossings with the NON Imm B multi visa as I read here and here. I don't mind making border runs if it is needed to maintain the visa and it is a legal thing to do.

Getting a work permit on an ED Visa is not my biggest concern, because when the time comes I can switch to a Non Imm B visa but I just wanted some feedback on getting a permit with the ED visa because it does seem different than what others have written, but perhaps in special circumstances it can be done?

[scifi]

If you are working alone, then a limited company seems to be the best option (although I don't know anything about Amity firms in particular) - with regard to what Sunbelt say about a limited company, work permit, and no Thai employees, that is correct. I work this way, and set my company up using Sunbelt - I can recommend them. To get the best from them, be prepared to spend some time building relationships with their key Thai staff; they have some very good people there so try and get them working on your account.

I can't remember off-hand what the company requirements are for extension of stay on Non-B, but if you are working alone, I don't expect you will qualify (I don't - possibly something to do with turnover and maybe Thai staff??) So on a multiple entry Non-B, you will probably need to leave and return (foreign trip or border run) every 90 days. But as you say, a border run is no big deal.

If your circumstances change, you could change over to Non-O (e.g get married to a Thai - I am assuming you are not, as you would been on Non-O anyway?) It is easier to meet the extension of stay requirements on Non-O. A lot depends on your future plans. If you intend to go for PR, you will need to be on extension of stay (minimum 3 consecutive years before applying, I think). Discuss this with Sunbelt (or your legal advisor). The salary you set for yourself is also relevant - certainly a minimum of 40,000 would be recommended, but the more income tax you pay, the more greatly you are appreciated, it seems.

[wasabi]

If you are working alone, then a limited company seems to be the best option (although I don't know anything about Amity firms in particular) - with regard to what Sunbelt say about a limited company, work permit, and no Thai employees, that is correct. I work this way, and set my company up using Sunbelt - I can recommend them. To get the best from them, be prepared to spend some time building relationships with their key Thai staff; they have some very good people there so try and get them working on your account.

I can't remember off-hand what the company requirements are for extension of stay on Non-B, but if you are working alone, I don't expect you will qualify (I don't - possibly something to do with turnover and maybe Thai staff??) So on a multiple entry Non-B, you will probably need to leave and return (foreign trip or border run) every 90 days. But as you say, a border run is no big deal.

If your circumstances change, you could change over to Non-O (e.g get married to a Thai - I am assuming you are not, as you would been on Non-O anyway?) It is easier to meet the extension of stay requirements on Non-O. A lot depends on your future plans. If you intend to go for PR, you will need to be on extension of stay (minimum 3 consecutive years before applying, I think). Discuss this with Sunbelt (or your legal advisor). The salary you set for yourself is also relevant - certainly a minimum of 40,000 would be recommended, but the more income tax you pay, the more greatly you are appreciated, it seems.

Scifi,

Thank you for the detailed reply. I have a few comments and another question. I am not on a Non imm-O visa, my girlfriend is Lao so even if we one day get married we are both out of luck when it comes to any visa advantage.

My question: I have been told I can get a 1 year Non Imm B visa which requires 90 day border runs if I own a US Amity company. I am not sure why some Non Imm B visas require border runs and others do not. I would like to know this but as mentioned I don't mind border runs.

I am indeed very interested in Permanent residence. I would like to know if having the this type of Non Imm B visa that is yearly but that requires border runs meets the requirement for PR. I have read holders of Multiple Non Imm visas cannot apply link here. Does the fact I need to exit and enter the country every 90 days make my visa become more than one visa and thus not suitable for PR? I am getting confused by the terms Multiple entry, and Multiple visas.

[digitalchromakey]

If you are working alone, then a limited company seems to be the best option (although I don't know anything about Amity firms in particular) - with regard to what Sunbelt say about a limited company, work permit, and no Thai employees, that is correct. I work this way, and set my company up using Sunbelt - I can recommend them. To get the best from them, be prepared to spend some time building relationships with their key Thai staff; they have some very good people there so try and get them working on your account.

I can't remember off-hand what the company requirements are for extension of stay on Non-B, but if you are working alone, I don't expect you will qualify (I don't - possibly something to do with turnover and maybe Thai staff??) So on a multiple entry Non-B, you will probably need to leave and return (foreign trip or border run) every 90 days. But as you say, a border run is no big deal.

If your circumstances change, you could change over to Non-O (e.g get married to a Thai - I am assuming you are not, as you would been on Non-O anyway?) It is easier to meet the extension of stay requirements on Non-O. A lot depends on your future plans. If you intend to go for PR, you will need to be on extension of stay (minimum 3 consecutive years before applying, I think). Discuss this with Sunbelt (or your legal advisor). The salary you set for yourself is also relevant - certainly a minimum of 40,000 would be recommended, but the more income tax you pay, the more greatly you are appreciated, it seems.

Scifi,

Thank you for the detailed reply. I have a few comments and another question. I am not on a Non imm-O visa, my girlfriend is Lao so even if we one day get married we are both out of luck when it comes to any visa advantage.

My question: I have been told I can get a 1 year Non Imm B visa which requires 90 day border runs if I own a US Amity company. I am not sure why some Non Imm B visas require border runs and others do not. I would like to know this but as mentioned I don't mind border runs.

I am indeed very interested in Permanent residence. I would like to know if having the this type of Non Imm B visa that is yearly but that requires border runs meets the requirement for PR. I have read holders of Multiple Non Imm visas cannot apply link here. Does the fact I need to exit and enter the country every 90 days make my visa become more than one visa and thus not suitable for PR? I am getting confused by the terms Multiple entry, and Multiple visas.

Many people get confused between what are two completely different items:

1) Non-Immigrant Visas - which are issued by Thai embassies and consulates outside of the country. You get a replacement visas from outside of Thailand. These allow you to enter the country.

2) Extensions of Permission to Stay - issued by your local immigration department - many people call these Visa Extensions. Here you report to immigration every 90 days you remain in Thailand and renew permission annually. These allow you to stay for longer periods without leaving the country.

If you have a valid non immigrant visa, then you can apply for 'Extension of Stay' at your local immigration, provided you meet certain criteria.

To be eligible for Permanent Residency you must have been on continuous 'Extensions of Stay' for several years (3/5 years depending for example on whether you have children here).

Being on a 1 year multiple non B visa, where you make 90 day border runs, does not count as a credit towards Permanent Residency

[lopburi3]

Visas allow 90 day stay only - extensions of stay allow you to stay longer and apply for PR. Stay on 90 day visa entries will not allow application for PR.

[Mario2008]

To apply for a residency permit you must be on yearly extensions of your visa and living in Thailand for 3 years or more. With a multiple you are only allowed to stay 90 days at a time and you do not qualify.

You also would need to mpay a high amount of income tax, on an income of 50,000 you would not pay enough.

For detailed information about permanent residency look here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Camerata-s-G...ide-t74654.html

[wasabi]

Why does the Non Imm B visa which Sunbelt can help me attain once I have a US Amity company not allow me to get yearly extensions of stay? Why must I leave the country every 90 days? How do I get a visa that does not require I leave the country every 90 days?

[scifi]

Wasabi, these last replies are very clear - helped me too - and that's about the size of it; on a multiple Non-B you would have visas for a year and you would have to exit/return every 90 days, but this would not count towards the three years required for a PR application. To count towards PR you need to be on extension of stay. I have been trying to find the list of requirements for applying for extension of stay based on a Non-B visa, but haven't had much luck - In my case my lawyer told me I didn't qualify, so I put it out of my head. That is why I am applying for a Non-O visa based on marriage when my Non-B runs out shortly. Getting extension of stay based on Non-O is easier. Perhaps some of someone could post the requirements based on Non-B? (Or ask your lawyer.) Mario2008's comment about salary is also worth noting. I already set my salary higher earlier this year. Good luck chap, but without extension of stay, PR wont be possible.

[scifi]

Wasabi - each visa type has its own requirements concerning extension of stay, which is an option you can consider when you visa expires (these requirements are separate from, and for Non-B, over and above, the initial visa application requirements). When your visa is about to expire, and you meet the requirements for extension of stay, you can go that path. If not, you just get another visa.

[wasabi]

Wasabi - each visa type has its own requirements concerning extension of stay, which is an option you can consider when you visa expires (these requirements are separate from, and for Non-B, over and above, the initial visa application requirements). When your visa is about to expire, and you meet the requirements for extension of stay, you can go that path. If not, you just get another visa.

I think I understand now. Even though a US Amity company will allow me to obtain a work permit which I can then use to get a 1 year multiple entry Non Immigrant B visa from a consulate outside of Thailand . This like all visas requires 90 day reporting. Because for whatever reason I don't satisfy the requirements for extension of stay instead of being granted an extension within Thailand at immigration, I must do 90 day border runs, which keeps the visa alive and satisfies the reporting requirement but does not count as an extension of stay. As far as Thailand is concerned I have only stayed for 90 days even if I do 4 back to back 90 day stays in a year.

Correct?

[wasabi]

If someone could reply to the above I would appreciate it. I have a follow up question.

Why do I need to do a 90 day visa run if I have a Non immigrant B visa? Why can't I get an extension of stay?

[lopburi3]

Read police order 606/2006 and find out if you qualify for a one year extension of stay. You will find links to the document from useful information at the top of the forum.

[wasabi]

Read police order 606/2006 and find out if you qualify for a one year extension of stay. You will find links to the document from useful information at the top of the forum.

Based on the above police order it seems the missing qualification with a US Amity company that is a Limited Company with only myself employed is that I don't have the 1:4 Farang:Thai employee ratio. There was some stipulation when you could get by with only 1 Thai member based on the types below.

That business must have a ratio

between foreign employee to

Thai employee of 1:4 and

(8) The following business shall be

exempted from the obligation

stated in Point (3), (4), (5) and

(6) and will be indulgent in the

number of Thai as stated in

Point (7), where they can use 1

Foreigner to 1 full-time Thai staff

(a) International Trade

business (Representative

Office)

( Regional Office

© International companies

(Branch office)

[lopburi3]

For the first year almost no start up can obtain an extension of stay from below rule - as no paperwork is yet available.

(5) That business must submit their

year end profit and loss account

which has been inspect and

certified by a certified

accountant. In overall the total

revenue must show an amount

higher than the total salary and

benefit paid the employee and

[ricardofel]

From what I had been told the "US Amity" deal expired 1-2 years ago....suggest you talk to some competent lawyers in BKK to get a definitive answer. If you want the name of one email me directly....

[Dazzler]

I set up a US Amity company last august, so I am unaware of any expiration of the deal.

A couple of questions:

1. Can anyone confirm that there does not need to be a 1:4, Foreigner: Thai ratio in the Amity company?

2. I have been told I don't need a Work Permit as the company (I own 49.9%) has no employees, my role is to introduce New Business, I have no salary and have a non imm B visa. Is this correct?

Thanks.

[Arkady]

The Treaty of Amity expired in 2006 i.e. it was not renewed as it had been in the past because Thailand and the US were negotiating an FTA agreement at the time which the Thai side hoped would allow them to terminate the treaty with the US's agreement. The FTA talks came to a dead end during the Thaksin govt. Then the US would not negotiate with the Thai military installed govt. Then Pres Bush lost his fast track authority from Congress to negotiate FTAs. So the whole thing is indefinitely sidelined. Thailand has been wanting to nuke the treaty for years but is too scared of US trade retaliation to do so. The US is probably reluctant to ask for renewal now because the treaty is illegal under GATT of which both Thailand and the US are members. GATT allowed the treaty to be renewed for 10 years from 1996 during which time Thailand was supposed to provide the same benefits to all GATT members and thus obtain US agreement to terminate the treaty LOL. The US pushed for the FTA because they wanted access to financial services and logistics which they don't get under the treaty and expected to retain all or most of the treaty's privileges. I expect the status quo to continue for the foreseeable future. Neither Thailand nor the US is in a position to go back to the FTA talks at the moment but neither wants to scrap the idea permanently. Meanwhile, Thailand will not dare to terminate the treaty unilaterally and the US will not give it up unless it gets something at least as good in return.

Even though not explicitly renewed the treaty continues in force until either side gives 12 months' notice to terminate it. Neither side has done this and both prefer to kept a low profile about it and not rock the boat.

I have never heard of getting a work permit on an ED visa but I am sure that neither this nor a string of 90 non-imm B visas would qualify for PR under the business quota which clearly requires 3-5 years of continuous non-imm B visas issued in Thailand. The ED and 90 day visa must be a loophole to get around the Immigration Dept's requirement for 4 Thai employees to issue an extension of stay to a non-imm B visa. This regulation applies to foreign employees of treaty or Thai companies alike, with the exceptions of the waivers mentioned elsewhere in this thread, e.g. for rep offices. (Note here that working for a rep office doesn't technically qualify you for PR under the business quota because the company is not incorporated in Thailand and can't pay Thai tax.) I had heard that Immigration was closing the loophole allowing work permit holders to do 90 day visa runs to avoid having 4 Thai employees but Sunbelt and others are obviously up-to-date on this.

The treaty permits sole proprietorships which other foreign nationalities cannot do as they need an employer. I don't know if Immigration requires you to have Thai employees to get a work permit for this, as suggested here. It is quite possible as I can imagine they don't like the idea of foreigners being allowed to set up sole proprietorships. Partnerships are also allowed but you need a work permit as all partners are assumed to be working in the business. Again I don't know how many Thai employees are required. Non-American foreigners can also be partners but can't be managing partners and must be in the minority i.e. one foreign partner and two Thais is OK but one foreigner and one Thai is not.

Dazzler re your question 2. Techically you need a work permit to work in Thailand for a treaty or non-treaty company, whether or not you have a salary. The definition of work in the Thai law here is very broad and includes doing voluntary work without pay. So if you are in Thailand, introducing new business would require a work permit but not, if you outside Thailand most of the year and just a shareholder and non-executive director of your treaty company. Being an authorized director is generally considered as work requiring a work permit but some people have got away with not having one for years. If the company has income but no employees you could be investigated by the Revenue Dept which would want to know how the revenue was generated. If company has no income and no employees for several years, it can be closed done by the Business Development Dept of the Ministry of Commerces. However, the case would first be referred to the Revenue Dept for investigation for tax fraud on the assumption that the company probably did have income and employees but submitted false tax returns. Anyway bear in mind that having a Thai company, treaty or otherwise, is a hassle and involves a lot of costs as well as subjecting you to inspections by the Revenue and other Thai departments. Don't bother to set one up unless you really want to do some business and/or want a work permit.

[Sam125]

Arkady,

I very much enjoyed reading your post.

I shall pay close attention to your future posts.

[wasabi]

Arkady,

I very much enjoyed reading your post.

I shall pay close attention to your future posts.

Agree