Miracle Mineral Supplement

[jaideeguy]

Day 7 and 12 drops....hit my limit and got cramps, nausea and just wanted to sh#%....I choose the latter and sh*# my brains out and when I could, I called my MMS guru and he said it's normal and will pass and back off the dosage for a couple of days then resume. he said that it's a sign that the stuff is working.

No fun now, but time will tell........

[buzzer]

Day 7 and 12 drops....hit my limit and got cramps, nausea and just wanted to sh#%....I choose the latter and sh*# my brains out and when I could, I called my MMS guru and he said it's normal and will pass and back off the dosage for a couple of days then resume. he said that it's a sign that the stuff is working.

No fun now, but time will tell........

Sounds like some extreme herxheimers reaction. The advice is pretty much according to what I would say too. I got up to 22 drops a day, taking 12 at night and 10 in the morning, I cut back to 12 at night because I was planning on doing a lot that required my full attention. That's finished, and so I'm going to start ramping up the dosage again. MMS isn't the only thing that causes this, and you should look up "herxheimer reaction" on a search engine.

I won't start being too evangelistic about MMS until I see some results with chronic problems of my own. I'm guardedly optimistic at this time. However, have you watched the youtube videos and downloaded the free eBook? I think this would be a good start. The videos aren't solely hyping MMS, there's some information on how to use it in them as well.

Buzzer

[Crushdepth]

Interesting comment buzzer. I am glad that there are people out there applying ozone therapy with an eye for monitoring and safety! I have used ozone as a disinfectant myself in the past - but to reduce pathogen load and improve water clarity in public aquaria. We went to a fair amount of effort to *avoid* exposure due to the risk of damage to lungs and other tissues, passing the treated water through activated carbon and degassing towers to remove the residual O3 both for our benefit and to avoid damage to the fish.

So, you are right about the idea of ozone gas into the bloodstream making my skin crawl :-) Apart from the above, a couple of my colleagues have been bent and I once ended up with a fair amount of air trapped in my body cavity after a pinhole leak in a lung. Very painful over the three days it took to dissolve and frankly it scared hel_l out of me. Injecting gas is definitely not a good idea in my book - especially into an artery <shudder> but I guess if it was done external to the body and dissolved or exchanged before the blood was put back it might be safer!

Anyway, I digress: This just a side note as I don't know anything about Herxheimer's Reaction, but an alternative explanation may be that the reactions you guys are experiencing could be symptoms of toxicity directly related to the substance itself (is it sodium diclorite? I found some chemical safety sheets that describe similar symptoms for this chemical, although they didn't say anything about required exposure dosage).

[Sheryl]

Day 7 and 12 drops....hit my limit and got cramps, nausea and just wanted to sh#%....I choose the latter and sh*# my brains out and when I could, I called my MMS guru and he said it's normal and will pass and back off the dosage for a couple of days then resume. he said that it's a sign that the stuff is working.

No fun now, but time will tell........

Jaideeguy,

Be sure to monitor your liver function (AST/ALT) while taking this and stop at any sign of an increase. We really don't know enough about the metabolism of this drug and its potential hepatic effects, so caution is in order. The tests can be done pretty much anywhere and are cheap.

[rken]

this a normal Herxheimer's Reaction, if it were a toxic reaction causing this everyone would more or less hit toxicity at the same number of drops, but everyone experiences this at different dosage level and then is able to later pass that level by more than15 times in some case. Some people experience Herxheimer's Reaction at only one drop and then go on to take 15 drops twice at a day for weeks. My wife got food poisoning last night. Woke up today with cramping and the big D. 15 minutes later after 6 drop dose all everything was back to normal. bad Laab from the market last night we think. For myself 15 drops 3 times a day. Feeling better than I have in a long time. Lump in my throat is slowly going down and the strange growth on my arm is shrinking. Keeping my fingers crossed this stuff is the real thing. I'll let you all know if I turn blue. Aloha

[Crushdepth]

if it were a toxic reaction causing this everyone would more or less hit toxicity at the same number of drops

I don't agree - variations in body weight, variations in 'dose per drop' due to inaccuracies in preparation and normal biological differences between individuals conspire to ensure that people will react differently. The symptoms described so far are completely consistent with the toxic effects described on the chemical hazard sheets I looked up (no link handy, but google around they are not hard to find).

Lump in my throat is slowly going down and the strange growth on my arm is shrinking.

I have this wild theory that maybe you are healing naturally and the drops have nothing to do with it :-)

Edited August 8, 2008 by Crushdepth

[rken]

I have googled and read every tox report available on the net. I would love to see this link. Many tox studies have been done in regards sodium chlorite and non have showed any toxicity in the amount we are using. There are pending patents for using sodium Chlorite introveinously and is also used ot phamacology and water municiple water systems. Hence the toxicity studies. Please do some more research and please post the link to this toxic effects. We are changing Sodium Chlorite to Chlorine dioxide when we use it. You might want to google that also. have fun aloha Rick. If you want I can post the tox studies. Let me know.

[buzzer]

Gotta go with Crushdepth on this one, toxic reactions are subject to a host of variables. And herxheimer has just too many different ways of surfacing to always be sure it isn't toxicity. In fact, I believe it is toxicity - what is detoxing but another chance to encounter your toxins? - hopefully on the way out this time. Another clue that it isn't a toxic shock from the MMS is that users seem to go through a wall. Before the wall is a toxic shock, caused by dye off of pathogens, but once the pathogens are decreased in number, the dose is often made higher, but without the herx. IMO.

Do look up herxheimer reactions. They were first called that in pre-penicillin treatments for syphilis. They can last from a few minutes and hours to months. A lot of people with Candida Albicans can have a tough road. This is just a time to find a nice foxhole and hunker down. If it's really too much to bear then back off the dosage.

"If at first you don't succeed try again, then quit! There's no sense making a dam_n fool of yourself over the matter." Mae West.

I'm glad someone brought out that MMS is no longer Sodium Chlorite after mixing with a food acid. It's ClO2 Chlorine Dioxide. In the amounts administered I don't think the Chlorine is a problem, but I have been noticing that my urine bleaches the toilet bowl white:) Everyone I personally know has had some reactions. Even if you're perfectly healthy and clean and never get sick, I believe you're harboring pathogens. They might not be doing you any harm, but they're probably in there. This will stir them up, I believe.

Another thing to look for is retracing. This is when you go through old symptoms on your way back to health.

Sent shivers up your spine, did it, Crushdepth! He He! Mine too. I'm PADI instructor #16143 (1982) I got a slight bend from stupidly flying after diving in Hawaii in 1974. But "directly injected' ozone is administered slowly. To kill someone with injecting air - I heard from a doctor that debunked the "Mystery Novel" method of killing with an average "junky sized' syringe. He said it would take a lot more because your heart (pump) would have to loose its prime, which would mean the size of the bubble would have to be close to the size of one of your heart chambers. I'm not convinced of that. But I have seen rather large bubbles of air coming down my IV line. The nurses told me not to worry. Ozone doesn't have any nitrogen in it so it absorbs quickly. The radical approach of Dr. Ozone has more to do with the extreme to which he pushed his patients - causing some to die.

Ozone's wildly caustic. If you get it in your eyes look out! If you get it in your lungs breath out! I've seen it destroy a rubber glove in seconds. What it can do is go into solution in the blood, and blood says, You're Home! Blood wants oxygen, ozone - great! Carbon monoxide? Gimme! So not all things it wants should be provided. If you use ozone therapeutically it's improtant to hook it up to an oxygen source so you get pure ozone. At first I used an air source 80% nitrogen and 20% Oxygen (roughly). That was great! (for sticking in my ears due to a chronic earache. If you have kids with earaches this is the way to go - or better - go with pure ozone. No drugs - just kills the bugs! But ozone can be nasty too. I breathed it in a few times by mistake. You could kill yourself with just a few breaths of it. It isn't good on any mucous membranes. I will take it in my mouth when I have the beginnings of a cold in my nose, and breathe it out my nose, then turn my head toward a fan and get a nice breath of air and repeat the cycle. I've knocked out some colds that way. The mucous membranes in the nose will burn a bit, but it's doable. The lungs are another story. I short breath and your hacking for hours, more than that...?

I am ramping up MMS again starting today - will keep you informed.

Thanks - Buzzer

[rken]

Buzzer it sounds like your comparing apples to orange. Crush depth is saying Chlorine dioxine is causing toxic reactions because it is in and itself toxic to the body. What you seem to be saying is that it creates a reaction because it doing exactly what it says it does, kill pathogens in our bodies. Which because of die off create a toxic condition, a herxheimer reaction ie. diarea, headache and vomiting. Two very different things. Have fun aloha

[rken]

if it were a toxic reaction causing this everyone would more or less hit toxicity at the same number of drops

I don't agree - variations in body weight, variations in 'dose per drop' due to inaccuracies in preparation and normal biological differences between individuals conspire to ensure that people will react differently. The symptoms described so far are completely consistent with the toxic effects described on the chemical hazard sheets I looked up (no link handy, but google around they are not hard to find).

Lump in my throat is slowly going down and the strange growth on my arm is shrinking.

I have this wild theory that maybe you are healing naturally and the drops have nothing to do with it :-)

Are you out trolling. After having both conditions for over a year it would be quite a coincidence if the both decided to heal themselve right at the time I started taking MMS.

[Crushdepth]

That's a bit harsh isn't it? What do you think is more likely - your body healing itself (hardly an unlikely or controversial scenario), or some random chemical miraculously healing a couple of unrelated problems?

Crush depth is saying Chlorine dioxine is causing toxic reactions because it is in and itself toxic to the body. What you seem to be saying is that it creates a reaction because it doing exactly what it says it does, kill pathogens in our bodies.

I am *suggesting* that the symptoms people are suffering could be a toxic reaction. This is one possibility. It happens to be consistent with documented acute toxic effects of the stuff in question, so personally I think it's quite likely. I don't rule out the possibility of this Herxheimer reaction thing, it just seems less likely to me. However, even if this is the case I am kind of sceptical that the long term consequences of MMS would be beneficial to the health. Let's assume for a minute that it is an effective anti-microbial agent (among other things!). By taking it continuously you are selecting for resistance (ie. its eventual failure), and presumably it is also nocking off beneficial microbes as well as 'bad' ones (noting that good bugs often become pathogens under unfavourable conditions!).

As one of my doctors once said, 'every flippin' pill we give you is a poison, we just hope that it solves problems faster than it kills you'. I don't take any kind of medication unless there is a clear need to do so (so I usually end up throwing away 60% of the stuff they give you at hospitals in Thailand).

Curious if you've ever asked a doctor about the lump on your arm, and if they had any idea what it may be.

[rken]

No I have not asked a doctor about the lump in my throat or the growth on my arm. I'm not that fond of doctors and hospitals. Thats not to say thery haven't saved my bacon more than once. Hospitals in the US and some Countries in Europe have a epidemic on there hands with anibiotic resistent staff. Over 50 percent of the staff in some hospital are carriers. The death rate is steadily climbing. its not going to bird flu that is the next epidemic. It is anti-resistent staff. Not sure about Thailand, if not now then its only a matter of time.

ave seen the growth on my arm and seemed quite concerned. They did not say what they thought it might be, but it was obvious that they thougt that it was some sort of cancer, based on there reaction. i'm not sure what it is but it seems to be going away now.

I have had friends that h

Most of the toxic symtoms in relation to chlorine dioxide have to do with inhalation.

Salmonella and E. coli O157:H7 contain an enzyme known as a respiratory nitrate reductase. This enzyme coincidentally converts the chlorate to chlorite, which kills the harmful bacteria. Beneficial bacteria in the intestinal tract lack respiratory nitrate reductase, so they are not affected by the addition of chlorate. The cost of using sodium chlorate at a meat processing facility could be less than 10 cents per pig, estimates ARS microbiologist Robin C. Anderson.

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5281392-description.html

Applicant's former applications disclose the utility of normal saline and other isotonic solutions of chlorine dioxide for sterilizing certain blood products and tissue products. Quite unexpectedly, chlorine dioxide, a disinfectant strong enough to inactivate blood born viruses and microorganisms, can be utilized to disinfect cellular blood products without destroying the vitality and integrity of the cells.

There is a continuing need to provide systems for disinfecting blood products. In particular, there is a need to disinfect human and animal plasmas fractions so that they can be safely and effectively utilized by a recipient or handled by a user without exposure to harmful viruses and micro-organisms.

SUMMARY OF THE DISCLOSURE

It is the object of this invention to provide compositions and methods to disinfect blood products for their safe and effective use. The invention is based upon the surprising and unexpected discovery that oxidizing compounds, which heretofore have been discounted as blood product disinfectants may be used for disinfecting blood and blood products, including red blood cells, platelets and plasma, without a resulting loss in red blood cell viability or plasma activity. Additionally, oxidizing compounds can be used to disinfectant plasma proteins such as Factor VIII, gamma globulins more specifically IV IgG, Factor IX, and antithrombin III without denaturing the protein or otherwise diminishing the protein physiological activity.

The present invention is based upon the discovery that whole blood and blood products can be disinfected by providing a disinfectant compositions of an oxidizing compound and a diluent, and then mixing whole blood or blood product with the disinfecting compositions for a length of time sufficient to inactivate any bacteria and virus present in the blood or blood product. After the blood or blood product is disinfected, the oxidizing compound is separated form the disinfecting composition, thereby providing blood or blood product which is safe and effective for therapeutic or diagnostic use.

For disinfecting red blood cells, diluents are aqueous solutions of an isotonic effective concentration of solute. More particularly, these diluents include solute which, when dissolved in water at an isotonic effective concentration form solutions which are isotonic with blood. Surprisingly processes utilizing isotonic solutions of an oxidizing compound will not only disinfect red blood cells but will do so without damage to red blood cells. With respect to plasma and plasma proteins fractions, the disinfectant composition need not be isotonic with respect to blood and water or sterile water is a suitable diluent for such compositions. Accordingly, disinfectant compositions consisting of an oxidizing compound in sterile distilled water will effectively disinfect plasma and plasma protein fractions without a resulting loss in physiological activity of the plasma.

Have fun Rick

[buzzer]

Buzzer it sounds like your comparing apples to orange. Crush depth is saying Chlorine dioxine is causing toxic reactions because it is in and itself toxic to the body. What you seem to be saying is that it creates a reaction because it doing exactly what it says it does, kill pathogens in our bodies. Which because of die off create a toxic condition, a herxheimer reaction ie. diarea, headache and vomiting. Two very different things. Have fun aloha

I hope this will clarify things.When the toxic organisms are killed off, the toxins that are in them and are a part of their metabolism flood into our bodies causing a toxic reaction which we experience through a plethora of symptoms, as our eliminate them. This I understand to be the Herxheimer Reaction.

What I believe I was trying to get across would, indeed not be comparing, but rather, contrasting apples and oranges. The reactions caused could be due to introduction into the system of a toxic substance. These reactions, and others - for instance, the symptom called 'death':)

However, what I hoped to get across is what happens when taking MMS. This seems to be Herxherimer's, reaction to pathogens dying off, not a toxic reaction to ingesting the MMS. Many toxins will show the exact same symptoms entering, and residing in the body as when they leave. I'm sure that a lot of us have Candida Albicans infections, even if we're not aware of it, or if it is undiagnosed. Now, as candida is already resident in the human body to begin with, but in proper ratios and just a part of the normal biosis of a healthy individual, there wouldn't be a toxic reaction when it is introduced as it's already there (being introduced slowly from childhood on). However, when we do a lot of antibiotics (which do nothing to kill candida) we kill off beneficial flora. The opportunistic candida will populate this newly cleared real estate, and in a state of overgrowth start producing the toxins that are a normal part of its metabolism. Waste products, such as ammonia and, I believe, formaldehyde, then enter our blood stream in amounts we can't cope with, causing a plethora of symptoms. Now when we kill off the candida their bodies release a lot more of these toxins causing an increase in our symptoms. This is one form of herx. Different pathogens will react differently, and our symptoms will be different as well. Rken gave a short list, but herx can be responsible for a multitude of symptoms

It's good to know what is a reaction from a newly introduced toxin, and what is a reaction to pathogenic die off. In the first case we need to make sure what we're taking in isn't a toxin to begin with. That's why we have to listen to both sides of the issue. So Crushdepth says he thinks our reactions are a result of the first case. i.e. the MMS is a toxin, but Rken counters with evidence to the contrary. This is all good! Now a toxin will, with increased doses, bring more and more symptoms and there will be no let-up. If we're experiencing a toxic backlash from pathogens dying, it stands to reason that they will run out of steam as their numbers decrease and so the symptoms will slowly abate. MMS seems clearly in the second group.

The benefit of listening to others that have traveled the path before us is invaluable. We have been told to expect the Herxheimer reaction by many, many who have experienced it through their involvement with MMS. If no one said anything and I, alone, was experiencing it, it would cause me to worry, but as it seems to be a nearly universal side effect of takers of MMS, it actually gives me hope knowing I'm on the right path. In fact, many years I took a powerful anti-parasitic drug during a time when I was experiencing a lot of confusion, and lack or concentration. It seemed my whole brain was slightly numb. When I took the drug I had high hopes that it would cure the problem, and one way I would know that it was doing its work would (as I was told) be a major herxheimer reaction. Nothing of the sort occurred, and the symptom remained until I was able, much later, to pinpoint its cause. So the Herx can be your 'friend'. As IMO Herx is indeed a reaction to toxins (on the way out) I think some care should be taken. I could see a case in which the toxic overload would be just too much, and if a person had a week heart, the stress could do damage. Hence the benefit of wisdom of others that have done the MMS, i.e. If it is too much retreat to a lower dose and build up again.

Rken - hope this clarifies. If not, state specifics, and I'll try to give it a shot.

Aloha Ke Akua,

Buzzer

[rken]

Well said Buzzer. nice post.

[corker]

Hi !

Where can I buy "Miracle Mineral Supplement" in Thailand or especially in Pattaya ?

Thanks

I know where you can find some in Pattaya-let me know how to get in touch with you.

[klikster]

Do you believe in miracles?

Yes .. but not from mortals!

[Firefan]

I have been reading up on MMS and have before been taking stabilized oxygen drops and hydrogen peroxide drops on a limited basis. I felt better, but did not have any specific ailments to treat. Only thing I have now seems to be stomach/bloating related after a stomach infection. I suspect parasites/fungus/similar left over after my normal medical treatment for same.

As mentioned the theory is that the MMS is also/similar to the oxygen approach.

Ok - so on a more practical approach:

1. how do we buy it here in Thailand - preferably Bangkok.

2. or do we make it ourselves as mentioned some do? How? What should we ask for(Thai name too?) and where to buy?

Cheers!

[jaideeguy]

At day 13 on MMS, I slowly worked myself up to 12 drops after having a setback [herx?] at day 8 and backed off to 8 drops and now back up to 12.

Yesterday i went into the hospital and got my 'mid term exam' [liver blood tests] and was disapointed to see an increase in my ALT/AST. Where's the miracle??

before starting MMS 2 weeks ago, my AST was 63 and ALT 77 and ALK.PHOS.80....now ALT 69 and AST 99 and ALK.PHOS. 161 [double]. these increases are more than I have had over a several year period between testing in the past, and i have cut my alcohol down to one glass.day from 5.

I don't know exactly what this means and if these values vary day to day in normal humans, or affected by diet, sleep or maybe lab technicians or maybe detoxing??, but it does make me want to re-evaluate MMS as a 'miracle cure' for HEP-C.

Thanks Sheryl for suggesting that I get these tests. cost for the complete 'liver function' tests was around $30 and can be less if i specify only ALT/AST/ALK.PHOS.

Anyway, for me...it's time to back off from this MMS and hope that it didn't do me any permanent damage.

I strongly urge others to go to the effort to have baseline testing before starting this '[MAGIC?] MIRACLE MINERAL SUPPLIMENT'. as well as during tx and especially after tx and share your experiences on this and other forums.

You owe it to yourselves and others that may follow you as well!! These undocumented testimonials of a cure for everything CAN DO HARM, IMHO.

I think that I can honestly say that I was a good little gunea pig......

and I wish others the best of luck in their treatments, but beware of 'miracles', tooth ferry's and santa clause...they don't exist in the real adult world.

any educated or experienced comments, explinations or ideas why this happened would be appreciated.

ps,

I still have dandruff and a couple of sebacious cysts that haven't changed a bit.and my teeth are no different.

Just my experience.......

[Sheryl]

As to why it happened: most drugs have to metabolized by the liver and this increases the liver's workload/stress -- just as true for herbs and other "natural"cures as for anything produced by "Big Pharma'. Hence people with hepatitis and other liver disease are well advised to minimize their use of medications and to be very, very cautious about he use of drugs for which there is limited information regarding metabolic pathways and potential liver toxicity etc. Pharmaceutical companies are required to document such things (granted, it is usually in fine print and highly technical language...but it's there) but the various things sold as "nutritional supplements"or hawked by book/internet as "miracle cures"aren't.

There have been no scientific studies of the adverse effects of MMS on either healthy people or special populations like those with liver or kidney disease AFAIK.

As for your lab results, JDG, a difference of say less than 10 points can indeed be a day to flunctuation but the 30+ point increase in your AST and doubling in alk phos are too large an increase not to be real, and worrisome. Good that you checked and good that you have stoped the MMS. Should recheck your results in 2-3 weeks to see if they've gone back down. Meanwhile avoid ALL medication that is not absolutely essential, and this includes "nartural"ones. The less your liver has to detoxify, the better.

You probably know this already, but...you should also give up that one drink a day. Your liver can't afford it.

[jaideeguy]

Thanks, Sheryl for your feedback......I will excercise extreme moderation and am planning a follow-up lab test in a month, but will do it sooner if you think i should. I did some 'dr. google research' today and found that the increase of my alk phos could indicate gall bladder problems...I do have 'multiple gall stones' as revealed by ultrasound 2 weeks ago. I'm a wreck!!

Should I be concerned about passing a gall stone at this point?? or should I just wait and see as my liver dr recomended before the sudden increase of alk phos??

[Sheryl]

Don't fret about gallstones if you are asymptomatic. Many, many people have them and never know it.

Regarding the blood work, I would recheck in 2 weeks just to be on the safe side since we really don't know the effect MMS may have on the liver.

[rken]

At day 13 on MMS, I slowly worked myself up to 12 drops after having a setback [herx?] at day 8 and backed off to 8 drops and now back up to 12.

Yesterday i went into the hospital and got my 'mid term exam' [liver blood tests] and was disapointed to see an increase in my ALT/AST. Where's the miracle??

before starting MMS 2 weeks ago, my AST was 63 and ALT 77 and ALK.PHOS.80....now ALT 69 and AST 99 and ALK.PHOS. 161 [double]. these increases are more than I have had over a several year period between testing in the past, and i have cut my alcohol down to one glass.day from 5.

I don't know exactly what this means and if these values vary day to day in normal humans, or affected by diet, sleep or maybe lab technicians or maybe detoxing??, but it does make me want to re-evaluate MMS as a 'miracle cure' for HEP-C.

Thanks Sheryl for suggesting that I get these tests. cost for the complete 'liver function' tests was around $30 and can be less if i specify only ALT/AST/ALK.PHOS.

Anyway, for me...it's time to back off from this MMS and hope that it didn't do me any permanent damage.

I strongly urge others to go to the effort to have baseline testing before starting this '[MAGIC?] MIRACLE MINERAL SUPPLIMENT'. as well as during tx and especially after tx and share your experiences on this and other forums.

Jaideeguy

Your Liver tests are up do to the detox created by MMS, I have sent you links to other cleansing program that clearly show that the numbers go up during a detox and drop after you have finished it. You are not even half way through the protocal recommended for Hep C. You can not reach the recommend dosage because of this detox and herx reactions of that detox. I for one don't feel you have given the MMS a fair chance. I'm amazed after talking to you about your post before hand and your agreeing, at least to look into the possibility of the numbers being up as a result of your body eliminating harmful toxins and MMS killing the virus. I would be freaked out also if I had a potentialy deadly illness and my numbers were up. Now you get to try interfuron which I know is a poison and have seen some of the results it can produce. Good luck Aloha

You owe it to yourselves and others that may follow you as well!! These undocumented testimonials of a cure for everything CAN DO HARM, IMHO.

I think that I can honestly say that I was a good little gunea pig......

and I wish others the best of luck in their treatments, but beware of 'miracles', tooth ferry's and santa clause...they don't exist in the real adult world.

any educated or experienced comments, explinations or ideas why this happened would be appreciated.

ps,

I still have dandruff and a couple of sebacious cysts that haven't changed a bit.and my teeth are no different.

Just my experience.......

[jaideeguy]

Not wanting to enter a debate on alt vs mainstream, I would like to add my 2 satang....

First off, I consider ALL forms of medicine to be 'alternative', in they all attempt to offer an alternative to bad health. I have always thought that they both have merit, but I give mainstream the highest rating when it comes to diagnostics, as they provide numbers and values to conditions.

Alt diagnosis is mostly quite vague.

I see 'The big debate'..... alt vs mainstream is sort of like debating religion....Christianity vs Islam...black vs white. I have learned that in life things are not always black and white and there are many shades of grey and many paths to choose and all have some merit. i try to go the middle path and am open to 'what works best for me'', be it alt or mainstream.

Re my hepC....i depend on mainstream for diagnostics and most of their suggestions for maintaining a healthy liver, but mainstream honestly admits that they can't find an acceptable [to me] cure for my genotype of hep C. much less than a 50% survival and clearance rate after a year of expensive hel_l-drugs. So I choose not to go mainstream and have been taking herbs [that my dr says 'can't harm me] milk thistle.

So, along comes this MMS and I give it a try after getting baseline and mid term values...something that most alt believers don't do is doccument their tx.

Then after 2 weeks of tx, on MMS, I see some alarming numbers [elevations of liver function] and common sense makes me want to re-evaluate this alt tx, but I haven't given up on it yet and may resume, if my numbers return to normal or [hopefully] improved slightly from the detox and that would suggest to me that MMS may work.

Otherwise, I'll continue with common sense, healthy food, excercise, moderation with chemicals [rx drugs, alcohol, and enviornmental exposure] and wait and see if a real miracle does emerge or someone provides conclusive and convincing evidence about MMS than I have yet to see.

As suggested by Rken, my high numbers could be a result of detoxing and if at 2 or 3 weeks from now, my numbers have normalized or improved, that may proove he is right, then i may continue MMS.

And Sheryl....I would appreciate it if you could take the time and google MMS and share your informed opinion.

I just want to survive!!

We all should be open to all alternatives [religions, beliefs, music, foods, and medicine]

2 satang please......

Edited August 16, 2008 by jaideeguy

[Shokdee]

Lots of excellent comments. Buzzer had kindly given me a bottle of MMS a few weeks ago. After some research, I decided to start taking it. Nothing to lose and potentially much to gain.

Started on 29 July and followed the standard protocol.

1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, 9-10, 11-12 . Everything going well. I must be healthy. At this stage the smell of chlorine was becoming really noticeable - and slightly unpleasant (bringing up memories of over-chlorinted swimming pools!!).

12-12 (stayed at same dose due to "heartburn" like pain in chest)

12-no dose (severe herx - I think I can use this shorthand to explain what happens!)

9-10 (on verge of giving up but for Buzzer's "die off" explanation and internet-based advice - "Have strength to carry on. This is a necessary"healing crisis"")

11-12 (mild herx but determined to carry on through my "healing crisis")

13-14 (feeling ok)

15-no dose (severe herx)

10-11 (big drop in dose, mild herx)

12-12 (mild herx but feeling OK)

12-12 (mild herx, stayed at this dose another day)

13-14 (mild herx)

13-no dose (severe herx)

12-no dose (ongoing herx...)

Have to travel in the next few days so decided to stop for a while.

While severe herx is unpleasant, overall I never felt "sick". More an extreme version of other "purging" experiences I've had, which leads me to think it is indeed a healing experience. It might well be that I am so full of toxins that cleaning it all out takes some effort. I'll wait until I feel better then try again.

[Sheryl]

Jaideeguy,

I have googled it as well as researched the scientific literature on sodium chlorite, which is what it is. I would hope that you and anyone lese con sidering taking it have done the same. If so, then you will notye that there are no scientific studies to be found for MMS, only anecdotal reports and sales pitches.

There is information on the active ingrediant, sodium chlorite, but not on its internal use in this strength.

I repeat, AFAIK its potential adverse effects, metabolic pathways, safety in persons with liver or kidney impairment or other chronic medical conditions (or pregnancy) have not been studied.

There have also not yet been scientific studies of its effiocacy 9a separate issue from its potential adverse effects and any contraindications), given all the press it is getting hopefully there soon will be.

[cloudhopper]

While severe herx is unpleasant, overall I never felt "sick". More an extreme version of other "purging" experiences I've had, which leads me to think it is indeed a healing experience. It might well be that I am so full of toxins that cleaning it all out takes some effort. I'll wait until I feel better then try again.

The Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction was first described as a reaction to treatment of syphilis with mercury and has been widely misinterpreted (outside conventional medical practice) as "healing". Perhaps the toxin that your body is so full of is MMS. I applaud you and JDG for sharing your experimental protocol but what might deemed successful treatment in one case may not be appropriate and in fact extremely risky for others, and should not be encouraged.

[buzzer]

Hi,

First off, I'd like to say I'm not a health care professional. I have been dealing with many intractable personal health problems for years - primarily a form of Inflammatory Bowel Disease, or IBD. As a result, I have studied and read some, but am more well versed in areas of special concern to me, that might not apply to others. What I say shouldn't be taken as advice, expert or otherwise. If you find fault with what I say, please bring it to my attention. I'm still learning.

While not fatal, my problem is considered incurable by conventional medicine. It is considered treatable, but the treatments create their own problems, and can be fatal. If no one has been 'cured' by alternative medicine, there are certainly those that claim to have been cured. Suffice it to say that there are those out there who have caused this disease to go into remission, and have never seen it again. If you don't want to call that being cured, so be it. There are various conditions that are experienced by others that have IBD, which may be similar, but are not the same as what I experience. Some have a mild case, some are caused by bacteria, some by virus, others by parasites, etc. My case is pretty severe. So if a person says they've been cured of what is ailing me, I take it with more than a pinch of salt. Some have said that they have cured IBD with MMS, and, thus it warrants my attention. However, it does not yet warrant my loyalty. The proof of the pudding...

This is a discussion on MMS, and it seems that it ended with the last post by Cloudhopper, in which I find some cautions that have been echoed by others in this and other forums and blogs, and should be carefully considered, as, I believe MMS is a pretty radical treatment that will affect one individual differently than another. That said, I believe it offers some hope, but feel caution should be taken.

"The Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction was first described as a reaction to treatment of syphilis with mercury"

This is true. Early cures for syphilis used mercury, and patients experienced a reaction first described by Jarisch and Herxheimer.

and has been widely misinterpreted (outside conventional medical practice) as "healing".

This assumes that referring to Herx beyond its original definition in the 19th century or in today's conventional medical terminology is wrong. Words change over time, as a matter of course, and the term, 'Herxheimer Reaction' has largely been adopted and adapted by proponents of natural medicine as synonymous with a reaction that occurs when bacteria, virus, parasites, molds & fungi 'die off' following introduction into the system of something that kills them. Thus, if it is misapplied, it has taken on a life of its own, and now the term is commonly used by the naturopathic community. All things considered, whether called a Herxheimer reaction or something else, it is nevertheless a reality for some. I believe that if anyone said that this was 'healing', they either misspoke, or were uninformed. I believe most would agree that Herx (using the modern usage), may signal favorable change on the road to healing, but isn't healing per se.

I know from personal experience that Herx can be rough - seeming to be anything but healing. The pathogens being killed off are organisms. As such they have their own life cycles, and, for want of a better description, consume (eat, drink, 'breathe' absorb - whatever), and, unfortunately, reproduce. They also die, and eliminate. In the case of Candida Albicans, for example, they thrive on sugar, alcohol and things like vinegar, and they produce (eliminate) ammonia, and acetaldehyde. They don't like oxygen, they aren't human. They are generally nasty little creatures that thrive on what is bad for us and eliminate wastes into our systems - stuff that is even worse for us. When Herx (modern parlance) occurs, their nasty little bodies die and release all kinds of foulness into our bodies, which, in-turn, must be eliminated by our bodily processes. Until the majority of these organisms are first killed then eliminated, this flood of toxic by-products causes a whole host of symptoms, in my case mental fogginess, diarrhea, coughing, etc. In the case of Candida, this can take months. Candida is a tough customer, but is but one of a plethora of pathogens. Other pathogens may or may not leave quietly. If they create a Herx reaction it may be mild or severe. Extreme Herx is not to be taken lightly as it can possibly kill. As bad as all this sounds, the presence of a Herxheimer reaction can be an indicator that the healing process has begun, and is a signal that we're on the right track. Caution must be advised, however, I think many give up prematurely due to the severity or inconvenience of the reaction.

Perhaps the toxin that your body is so full of is MMS.

Could this be a possibility? Many meds are toxic. In traditional medicine, chemotherapy is extremely toxic. The hope is that it kills the cancer before it kills the patient. If successful, after treatment, the patient improves. I feel this is similar to substances that produce a Herxheimer reaction. Does their toxicity outweigh their efficacy? Concerning MMS this is an ongoing debate. Many, on one side, say it's poison, others claim it has helped them cure the incurable. Examining both sides of the issue before jumping in with both feet would be prudent. However, researching the matter for myself, it appears that confusing Herx with a toxic reaction is a common error, and more than one lab experiment has been fouled up when lab techs and doctors - not familiar with Herx - considered the reaction they were observing to be a reaction to the toxic nature of the medicine they introduced, not as a reaction to the organisms dying off. In a way this may be seen in the experience of the individual. I think many people seeking healing and experiencing undesirable side effects attribute these to the action of the medicine, while it is, in fact, a Herxheimer reaction.

Still there are unanswered questions. Are there drug/MMS interactions? I would, of course, be happier if there was more of a history of double-blind testing and more meticulous keeping of records, and reporting of results. Most of the toxicity studies I've found were done to determine if it was safe to consume at the levels needed to purify water, if it can be safely handled by those working in water purification, and how much does it take to kill lab animals. Additionally Chorine Dioxide can be a gas and some of the studies deal with its effect if inhaled. Such is not the case with MMS as it is ingested. Also, some of the studies referred to the toxicity of Sodium Chlorite. I'm not sure how this applies because the Sodium Chlorite becomes Chorine Dioxide when mixed with one of the suggested acids. However due to the low cost of treatment, and the fact that it is basically in the public domain, and thus not a patentable product of a drug company, I think we're going to have to rely on anecdotal evidence and the advice of others for some time to come.

In my case I was experiencing Herx so bad I was forced to quit MMS for a time. I admit I was anxious to see results, and ramped up the dosage too quickly. Doing further research, some who claimed success using MMS with IBD said the higher dosage is not necessary. So, I'm going to proceed more slowly, but I'm going to proceed. From my research it appears many, if not most people experience diarrhea when taking MMS, other symptoms include nausea and vomiting. Look further to see additional symptoms users are reporting. These seem to be in keeping with symptoms of a Herx reaction. Hopefully I can go through the inevitable Herx with less reaction than the last time. My advice is if you decide to do MMS in hopes of curing a chronic illness there's no advantage in going too rapidly. Ultimately it's your decision, so researching the matter as thoroughly as possible seems like a good idea.

Buzzer

[buzzer]

I didn't want to get this lost in my last post - which I just sent. These are some noteworthy observations I found while collection information, and the questions that arise in matters of this sort.

One opinion is that upper digestive Herx reactions can be avoided by putting the MMS on the skin and having it absorbed into the body bypassing the digestive tract. The article I read was by a naturopath who considered this to be the superior method of delivery.

I believe that this transdermal application can occur with just the MMS solution, however the doctor said he uses it with DMSO as it is absorbed much better that way.

I used DMSO in the US, but my question is; Does anyone know where to get it here? Like MMS, don't get into DMSO without knowing what you're getting into.

Also, there is a question as to which acid to mix with the Sodium Chlorite to produce Chlorine Dioxide (MMS). Some feel vinegar (acetic acid) will help stimulate the growth of Candida Albicans, so should be avoided. Others are divided on whether to use Citric Acid, or natural Lemon of Lime juices. Does anyone know more about this issue?

Buzzer

[fred2]

I've used it and it works good. I had a bad bladder infection. It kept coming back took some MMS and it cleared it up and hasn't been back in six months. normally about every 2 months it would come back. E. coli I think is what the doctor said.

[webtv]

I have read this thread and I thank you for all the advice and the "blow by blow" accounts posted.

I have systemic Candida myself and since I was antibiotics for stomach ulcers, it has invaded all parts of my body.

I have been close to ending my life on a few occasions as it has really come on strong in my brain and lungs and I have constant chronic fatigue and general "craziness" in that I have no clue what Im doing or how to do things... I feel very lost most days and very alone.

My symptoms are varied and the only comfort I have found of late is Colosan, which is basically a Colon cleanser, which is magnesium and oxygen.

I realize now I need to find a similar product that oxygenates my whole body, including, brain, lungs and all parts of my body.

I have lived with this extreme debilitating illness for 5 months now and I am unable to work, or go into the sunlight due to the brightness hurting my eyes and after an hour i would have to lay down anyway due to fatigue.

I really need help and I will not go back to Bumrungrad where I paid nearly 300,000 baht in doctors visits and medications etc and they never diagnosed me with anything other than the ulcers.. Even when I would come in at 4am and say I feel like Im going to die, they would say, there is nothing wrong with me and place me on oxygen = which is the only time I felt better!

Since that time, I have traveled to 2 detox centers in Thailand and have gone through major detox programs, which were great whilst on them. I felt I could crush steal some days, but once back into real life, the dizziness would come back and then the rest of the symptoms.. I never knew it was Candida until I started doing research and buying books online and now I know I have it, I need to find a cure..

In the last 3 months I have quit smoking after 26years of 2 packs a day, stopped any alcohol, stopped any sugar including over the last 3 weeks, even fruit. I do not eat bread or any other forms of yeast products and only cook at home fresh vegetables with a big emphasis on leafy green veg.. The only oil I use is Olive oil and I use no other condiments or sauces of any type.. Even with this strict diet and lifestyle, it is still a lottery ticket everyday if I wake up feeling strong or fatigued.. It is a roll a coaster i want to get off of as if this is what the rest of my life will be, I would rather not bother..

I do not say to this to gain sympathy, I just have to come to a realization that this might be what will happen in time.. At then of the day, if I do not have quality of life, I dont want second best..

I realize this post is a rant and hard to follow, but I have done my best to formulate a type of post that might gain me some help.

My question is this: Does anyone know how to beat systemic Candida? Will oxygen therapy help me? Where do I get this done?

thanks in advance.