Call For Witness

[bangkokrick]

I hope they are nothing like Thai electricians etc who do a shit job at the best of times.

Maybe you have military experience about these "boys in black"? If so, do reveal.

No military experience, i just spend some time with some of their units at the different borders. Most of them i found to be very nice and courageous guys, mostly very simple village boys, but some were truly scary characters.

They definately are not like our electricians here...

But i would suggest reading that book i recommended - an excellent book written by a military expert.

I just googled and got a little more info.

The Royal Thai Army has formed a new Thahan Phran (or Ranger) regiment for special duties in Chiang Saen, Chiang Khong and Wiang Kaen districts along the Mekong River in Chiang Rai province. The regiment has a skull and dagger insignia, and is responsible for curbing human trafficking and other illegal movements across the Mekong into Thailand from northwestern Laos.

Several different companies from the regiment, which is headquartered at Pakthongchai near Khorat, have been deployed to the Mekong districts since 2005. These include 945 Company, which was based at Vieng Mok in December 2005; 963 Company, which was based at Doi Pha Tang in 2005-06; 949 Company, which has a base just on the southern outskirts of Chiang Khong; 951 Company, which was at Doi Pha Tang in June 2007; 958 Company, which had camps from Huay Yen to Ban Don Dee, on the river road from Chiang Khong to Chiang Saen in 2006; and 948 Company, which was camped along that road in June 2007. One of the camps is directly opposite Ban Nam Koeng in Laos, and the Rangers cooperate closely with the Laotian authorities, informing them when they force illegal crossers to return to the Lao side.

This area has become the new vector for trafficking narcotics into Thailand, as well as women from Burma, Laos and China. In the last few years, there has also been a substantial number of North Korean citizens being trafficked into this area of Thailand. Estimates vary, but the total number caught since 2004 is likely to exceed 1,000. Those arrested are taken to Chiang Rai jail, then transferred to a jail in Bangkok before being resettled in South Korea. After the long and harrowing journey from North Korea down through China, and then through northwestern Laos, they are often beaten and abused when arrested in Thailand.

cheers, Rick

[elkangorito]

The pics posted of the "military guys" do not, in any way, reveal any badges.

[bangkokrick]

The pics posted of the "military guys" do not, in any way, reveal any badges.

You will also find that rangers have very different badges and insignia, sometimes not even proper uniforms (at times they come a bit late).

Justback. I showed the pictures to my wife and she immediately said Thahan Phran. She was born and raised in that area, so to me this confirms what you say. Some people however may take more convincing.

Cheers, Rick

[bina]

special forces from my end of the world:

http://www.isayeret.com/services/tour.htm

http://www.isayeret.com/services/freecontent/article.htm

the second link has pics of the weapons in proper useage

bina

[elkangorito]

Sorry, but the history of these forces is well known, and to some extend recorded. Before you go on discrediting these forces, please read up on the available sources (one of which i recommended - written by an independent expert).

I personally do not need to believe what is told to me, because i have been with these forces in combat zones. And no, i have no military background, never shot a war weapon.

Whatever, no need to beleive me, i may be just another <deleted> here washed up in Thailand. But at least educate yourself about an aspect of Thailand that you obviously have no clue about. Especially where material on this subject is available.

You might find much of what i posted here about these rangers confirmed there.

I am not discrediting any forces. I AM discrediting the fact that many people are speculating about what forces they are.

Believe me, whether it be Thailand or the USA, "special forces" stand out...in a sense that they are not publicly known. If this were so, it would defeat the whole purpose of being a "special force" as such.

The likes of SAS etc are not really "Special Forces". They are, however, an elite group of soldiers.

Again, the pics clearly show, with faces, Asian men dressed in black "unmarked" uniforms, whom carry weapons ranging from L1A1 to AK47. This, in itself, may not mean much to an outsider but at the end of the day, it's a "mottly crew" & not special forces.

I think the thread is about to end. The situation (a Wat) has not & does not require "special forces" to be involved. This is a government stunt to make things look more "serious" than what is reality.

What government would expose "special forces" to such a public display?

Edited July 17, 2008 by elkangorito

[bangkokrick]

special forces from my end of the world:

http://www.isayeret.com/services/tour.htm

http://www.isayeret.com/services/freecontent/article.htm

the second link has pics of the weapons in proper useage

bina

Good info Bina but the ones that spring to mind for me are the Mossad Assassins. Scary stuff.

Cheers, Rick

[Nignoy]

Maybe they are just tuk tuk drivers doing the Knowledge Nignoy

[elkangorito]

Maybe they are just tuk tuk drivers doing the Knowledge Nignoy

You may be right.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=9795&page=1

[bina]

seems to be translating problems here about what 'special forces' are: ours have green berets like commando types, my ex was in a special forces type unit also... but there are other 'quieter' spec. forces for specific areas/operations and their faces are nto shown usually... .

and more sinister...

like anything in our army there is special forces, and 'special' special forces, and 'super special' special forces, and invisible special forces.... only those in the system recognize the differences in dress, etc.

egoz and duvdevan are scarier and more brutal... they were very 'hush hush' until recently, after a few exposees due to brutality etc charges.... they are more 'transparent i.e. in the news, then they used to be.

bina

[wintermute]

Here's the deal I finally asked someone much more knowledgable than I am about these matters. These guys are jungle warfare irregulars. They are "special" in that regard because they are usually border skirmishers with experience in fighting drug traffickers etc..

The actual professional special forces most of us are thinking of (such as the SAS, Navy Seals) are known as the Royal Thai Commandoes. These would be the fit young men you would normally *NOT* see in photos kicking in doors in various locales or sitting in full ghili outfits. The Royal Thai Commandoes are the ones that train with U.S. special forces as counterparts.

Also, Thai special forces units are the one thing in the Thai military that aren't complete jokes. They have assisted the U.S. over the decades in quite a few ways and they train with U.S. Special forces.

special forces from my end of the world:

http://www.isayeret.com/services/tour.htm

http://www.isayeret.com/services/freecontent/article.htm

the second link has pics of the weapons in proper useage

bina

Wow, didn't know you guys needed commandoes to shoot palestinian children throwing rocks.

[elkangorito]

So now you are saying that those "men in black" are militia? And that those militia are not necessarily highly trained?

Maybe you can answer this question: why are these "people" appearing in pics? Who are these people?

We already know that they are in no way "special forces", so who are they? If they are militia, why such a public display? Or am I missing something about Thailand?

[wintermute]

So now you are saying that those "men in black" are militia? And that those militia are not necessarily highly trained?

Maybe you can answer this question: why are these "people" appearing in pics? Who are these people?

All these questions have been answered already.

We already know that they are in no way "special forces", so who are they? If they are militia, why such a public display? Or am I missing something about Thailand?

Are you daft?

[wintermute]

Btw, people making fun of these jungle warfare irregulars should realize that some of them are tough as nails because they live and work in the jungle. They are sort of like Thailand's Viet Cong. Some of SE Asia's toughest soldiers are the jungle warfare guys and they kicked the asses of quite a few western armies in the past 50 years.

[elkangorito]

Here's the deal. I finally asked someone much more knowledgeable than I am about these matters. These guys are jungle warfare irregulars. They are "special" in that regard because they are usually border skirmishers with experience in fighting drug traffickers etc..

The actual professional special forces most of us are thinking of (such as the SAS, Navy Seals) are known as the Royal Thai Commandoes. These would be the fit young men you would normally *NOT* see in photos kicking in doors in various locales or sitting in full ghili outfits. The Royal Thai Commandoes are the ones that train with U.S. special forces as counterparts.

Also, Thai special forces units are the one thing in the Thai military that aren't complete jokes. They have assisted the U.S. over the decades in quite a few ways and they train with U.S. Special forces.

Please forgive me but the US has had to learn many techniques regarding warfare, over the recent years. Thais learning from yanks is not really a "plus".

[wintermute]

Here's the deal. I finally asked someone much more knowledgeable than I am about these matters. These guys are jungle warfare irregulars. They are "special" in that regard because they are usually border skirmishers with experience in fighting drug traffickers etc..

The actual professional special forces most of us are thinking of (such as the SAS, Navy Seals) are known as the Royal Thai Commandoes. These would be the fit young men you would normally *NOT* see in photos kicking in doors in various locales or sitting in full ghili outfits. The Royal Thai Commandoes are the ones that train with U.S. special forces as counterparts.

Also, Thai special forces units are the one thing in the Thai military that aren't complete jokes. They have assisted the U.S. over the decades in quite a few ways and they train with U.S. Special forces.

Please forgive me but the US has had to learn many techniques regarding warfare, over the recent years. Thais learning from yanks is not really a "plus".

Sounds like someone has penis envy.

edit: FYI, name one other nation's special forces unit that have been in more combat situations than the U.S. or have as much experience over the past 50 years.

Edited July 17, 2008 by wintermute

[elkangorito]

Btw, people making fun of these jungle warfare irregulars should realize that some of them are tough as nails because they live and work in the jungle. They are sort of like Thailand's Viet Cong. Some of SE Asia's toughest soldiers are the jungle warfare guys and they kicked the asses of quite a few western armies in the past 50 years.

Really! 50 years! Do tell. This goes back to, let's see, 1958 & onwards. How many "jungle wars" were there?

<flame removed>

Anyway, the "guys in black" don't convince me. They may convince the "viewer". It's all a stunt to make Thailand look tough.

What a bad idea for the "Land of Smiles".

[wintermute]

Btw, people making fun of these jungle warfare irregulars should realize that some of them are tough as nails because they live and work in the jungle. They are sort of like Thailand's Viet Cong. Some of SE Asia's toughest soldiers are the jungle warfare guys and they kicked the asses of quite a few western armies in the past 50 years.

Really! 50 years! Do tell. This goes back to, let's see, 1958 & onwards. How many "jungle wars" were there?

You're quite the simpleton. Does the Vietnam War or the earlier war with France ring a bell? I'm talking about SE Asian jungle fighters as a whole.

<flame removed>

Only to irrelevant members of the obsolete former empire.

Anyway, the "guys in black" don't convince me. They may convince the "viewer". It's all a stunt to make Thailand look tough.

What a bad idea for the "Land of Smiles".

No doubt, but i'm sure you wouldn't say anything to their face if you saw them that would after all take some testicular fortitude something of which is probably a great mystery to you. Go back to drinking foamy pints in your dingy pubs.

[elkangorito]

Sounds like someone has penis envy.

edit: FYI, name one other nation's special forces unit that have been in more combat situations than the U.S. or have as much experience over the past 50 years.

I'm not into pissing contests but it appears that you are so....

the Australian Navy had to teach the US sailors how to "properly" conduct non aggressive boarding party procedures. This was welcomed by the US government. This is only one thing.

In the meantime, it appears that the Thai military forces wish to show some strength. For what? Lumps of stone that overhang Thailand. The stupid thing is that this situation does not require military involvement. It requires the amazingly difficult thing of people talking to each other. This crap has been going on for centuries between Thailand & Cambodia. When these folk realise that they can actually live together peacefully, their worlds will be so much better.

Of course, all the "more betterer" without any "militia" or "special crap" to wage war because of some indiscretion about a lump of dirt.

Edited July 17, 2008 by elkangorito

[wintermute]

Sounds like someone has penis envy.

edit: FYI, name one other nation's special forces unit that have been in more combat situations than the U.S. or have as much experience over the past 50 years.

I'm not into pissing contests but it appears that you are so....

the Australian Navy had to teach the US sailors how to "properly" conduct non aggressive boarding party procedures. This was welcomed by the US government. This is only one thing.

Are a bunch of freckle faced slack jawed 19 year old sailors special forces ? Because that's what we are discussing here, champ. Maybe some of those teenage U.S. sailors could teach you a thing or two about reading comprehension.

[Mossfinn]

Wow, didn't know you guys needed commandoes to shoot palestinian children throwing rocks.

There you go, a full and rounded view of part of the middle east situation on a Thai Forum.

Moss

[Nampeung]

Very welcome Justback with your informative and objective views, thanks

[Mossfinn]

There is no "Land of Smiles". This term is an invention.

Subjective perhaps, I'd prefer an adjective?

Moss

[kiakaha]

I just pasted the pictures here so you won't have to look for the other thread.

The question is : Who are these people?

The are the extras from Rambo 4.

[nonthaburial]

Royal Thai Border police !!!!!!

[colonelsing]

These guys,as has already been said,are rangers but in the border area are also the or sor or volunteer defense forces who wear desert camo for some reason and also the border patrol police. Special forces in America means Green berets,but now this term is often used to distinguish any outfit that is not regular army.

[Johpa]

The guys in black, the tahaan praan, have been around for decades and are very familiar to some of us who have lived in more remote border areas. Back in the 1980s I was living near the Thai-Burma border north of Thaton. We had a tahaan praan unit stationed in the village for several weeks, they took over a BPP Camp, and they were doing patrols into Burma in the weeks prior to some RTAF Bronco bombings.

The officer of the unit was regular Thai army and spoke excellent English. The sergeant was also regular army and spoke a bit of English. You can make inferences from the linguistic abilities alone as Thais speaking English back then were few and far between. The soldiers themselves may have been volunteers or methinks were volunteered in lieu of an alternative lifestyle. (Hey, I had a good pal in high school in the US who was given such a choice by a judge and ended up a major in the US Marine Corps.) The soldiers were certainly ragged around the edges, with oodles of protective amulets hanging from their necks and tattoos all over the place. But they were well disciplined and well trained and they treated the villagers fairly, far better than did the regular Thai army troops a few years later during the Doi Lang dog and pony show. But I always had the impression that if any of these guys disappeared that nobody would miss them. I should also note that back in the 1980s, these folks were also associated with some of the more nefarious activities that occurred along the northern borders, allegedly providing security for some private parties that had some military connections, all rumors of course. But my personal interactions with these guys was quite positive, although I am certain it helped that I had become friendly with their commanding officer.

[candoman89]

Played paintball with them last week; they didn't last long

Their black outfits looked like a flock of seagulls had dive bombed them when we were finished with them

[digitele]

I just pasted the pictures here so you won't have to look for the other thread.

The question is : Who are these people?

Border Guards, sometimes refered to as Rangers.

As far as 'Elite" and the selection and training to be qualified as worldclass 'Elite", well no.

For that in Thailand, the real deal are trained/based out of Lop Buri. Some good ones I may add.

[Tigs]

Elkangorito

I have no idea how many years military experience you have in the Austrailian Navy, however, as you have set yourself up on this thread as a self appointed military expert then here goes. You are wrong on so many counts. I was a pilot in the British Royal Air Force for over 20 years 13 of which were during the 'cold war'. I flew and trained with SF units all over europe. I was not SF, i just got them in and out where they needed.

Believe me, whether it be Thailand or the USA, "special forces" stand out...in a sense that they are not publicly known. If this were so, it would defeat the whole purpose of being a "special force" as such.

Working with US forces, the SF guys were all to willing to tell anyone that they were SF. They never seemed to hide it at all, that was their way, and their culture. The SAS on the other hand told nobody outside their military circle. If you asked them 'who they were with' they would simply say the number of the regiment or state the name of the Town where their barracks were. If you didn't know what it meant you weren't going to be told.

The likes of SAS etc are not really "Special Forces". They are, however, an elite group of soldiers.

Can you explain this statement? I was always assigned to work with a group of 'Special Forces' never a group of 'Elite soldiers'

Again, the pics clearly show, with faces, Asian men dressed in black "unmarked" uniforms, whom carry weapons ranging from L1A1 to AK47. This, in itself, may not mean much to an outsider but at the end of the day, it's a "mottly crew" & not special forces.

This is the most telling statement about your level of military experience. Any member of the SAS, when going about normal military day to day business at home would be dressed impeccably like any soldier, with badges etc. The moment these guys were on an op or training all badges, insignia and anything that could be used to identify them was removed. This was standard for any European member of SF. When I flew them I also had to exchange my flying suit for a set of unidentifiable 'different' clothes. The team members would blend in to their environment. Incidentally many favoured to carry the AK47. They were then the scruffiest, dirtiest bunch of baby eating b******s you had ever seen, and boy were they fantastic at what they did. Their whole aim was to make sure that they DID NOT look anything like a member of SF. But perhaps as you seem to describe these Thai chaps they were a 'motley bunch' (tell them that to their face if you dare). On that note i wonder if you donned your navy uniform and lived in the jungle with these guys for two months whilst guarding this 'bunch of stones', if you would look pristeen and fresh, with a smartly ironed uniform and polished shoes?? When these guys or anyone are operating in a jungle environment they rarely wash (if they do its only with a little river water. They will often smear themselves with animal shit, or anything else to make them blend in to the jungle. I worked with Gurkhas in Brunei and they were so attuned to the 'smell' of the jungle that they could smell someone 1-1.5 km away if the individual had used soap.

I think the thread is about to end. The situation (a Wat) has not & does not require "special forces" to be involved. This is a government stunt to make things look more "serious" than what is reality.

This is not about a Wat it is about Territorial rights, and they will not be given up, and it is very very serious. The situation is so delicate and must remain error free, so i for one would ensure that i had the best possible troops on the ground.

What government would expose "special forces" to such a public display?

One that wanted to show Cambodia and the rest of the World that it is not playing a game perhaps? As for identifying these guys, it is irrelevent, it is a different style of operation. They work in the Jungle and you would never find them there.

I do not know who the guys are so i won't guess, but your arguments for them not being SF are wrong. If they are rangers, they are very highly trained and are masters of their environment.

Whoever these guys are your comments do them an injustice.

[midasthailand]

Tigs... Finally a well balanced and factually based response. I spent 36 years in the Royal Australian Navy and rose through the ranks to Lieutenant Commander. I spent three years at the Australian Embassy in Bangkok and on many occasions accompanied members of the Australian Special Air Services Regiment as a liaison whilst they were conducting training exercises with Thai "special forces" these exercises involved such things as Entebbe style hostage rescue scenarios through to establishing FOP's in hostile territory. The Aussie soldiers were more than impressed with the discipline, weaponry, skillsets and attitude of Thai SF. I later went on to spend five months with the Thai Army battalion in East Timor as the liaison officer between the Thais and INTERFET HQ and all of the Thai military in ET were from Lop Buri... Very fit and very professional. Thailand has SF in the Army, Marines and the Navy, they are well thought of in international SF circles and have trained with the best of the best from USA, Australia, Indonesia and Singapore to my knowledge. I woud not be suprised to learn that they have also conducted training with Chinese SF personnel as well.

As to who the military personnel were in the photos, I think Justback has answered that question very well.

Elkangorito, unless you were part of team 1, it would seem that you are just another ex military expat walking around alluding to secret missions that you cannot talk about, sad really. You are though, quite correct with respect to publication of pictures of SF personnel, Apart from those already KIA, you will never see the face of any SAS (Australian) in any media.

Cheers and Beers All.