Farangs With Guns!

[lopburi3]

Dogs are not really a viable option in Thailand.

The first thing anyone wanting to get into your house will do is poison the dogs; unless you can train them not to accept food from starangers - which is how Military Dogs are trained, they are pretty useless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In posters case, where he fears they are out to get him, that may be true but we should also point out that for most home robbery cases the dog will get the thief to look for another house rather than kill the dog.

[Ajarn]

Fear is a Mindkiller.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is a point that is important to consider. Even if the danger isn't real, your own fears that it is can take precedence...

In that case, it's most important to give yourself peace of mind.

A couple of years ago, there was a rash of burglaries in my muubaan. Rather than be paranoid and annoy myself with those inner-rantings, I got:

A. A better chain and lock for my front gate, and my housekeeper has orders to keep it closed and locked.

B. I installed an intercom and camera to monitor my fron gate, which is not easily seen from inside the house.

C. I installed other cameras around the perimeter of my house to monitor those areas.

I didn't get a big dog, because my neighbor already has some noisy ones...

The cameras and intercom are clearly visible to anyone walking by- or casing my house as a potential target.... Knowing that thieves are opportunistic and wanting to avoid confrontation if at all possible, I feel quite secure that most any thief will look somewhere else for a better target.

If someone did get into my house, I have some mandaus from Indonesia that served their owners quite well as head choppers..

And I've got that paintgun. Thirteen .68 caliber rounds per second, moving at 300+ feet per second.... 400 round 'clip'. Not likely lethal, but certainly effective!

What? Me worry? Nah....

[Pudgimelon]

I  can  understand  where  you  are  coming  from  but, if  it  comes  down  to  anyone  wanting  to  harm  me  or  mine  i/d  like  something  a  little  more  than  sweet  words  to  stop  them.........but  each  to  their  own  i  suppose.

Let's consider the possibilities when someone breaks into your house (while you are sleeping? eating dinner? sitting on the can? watching porn on the telie?). Here's some possible outcomes:

A) You manage to reach your firearm (is it kept loaded? do you have one in every room?) and blow the mother-f'cker away. You're a hero, wooohooo!

B ) You manage to reach your firearm, and even though it's not loaded, you manage to bluff the felon into thinking you're going to use it, and he wets himself and runs away. You're a hero again, woooohooo!

C) You don't reach your firearm in time, and the bad guy does what he wants anyway, just like he'd do if you didn't have a gun. So not are you only robbed/raped/beaten/kidnapped or whatever, but you're also out the 40K baht you spent on a completely useless hunk of metal.

D) The bad guy breaks in while you're not home, finds your firearm, and steals it. Thank you for PAYING to help arm the criminal population of this country. I'm sure the family of that gun's next victim will appreciate your contribution.

E) The bad guy breaks in while you're not home, finds your firearm, and then you walk in the door. Boy, does it SUCK to be shot with your own gun. I hear it actually hurts more .

F) Nobody breaks into your home, but a kid or retarded relative finds the gun and shots himself or a friend. Ummm, wait weren't you just expressing a desire to protect yourself and loved ones with something more than sweet words? How do you feel now that you're the one responsible for bringing the intrument of that harm into the home?

G) Nobody breaks into your home, but you and/or your wife are having a big fight, and someone (in a fit of rage) decides to take it to the next level. Bang, well... that "solves" the domestic dispute.... sort of.... well, not really....

Seems like a lot more things could go wrong with a gun in the home, than if one was not in the home.

And statistically speaking, that's not an opinion, it's fact. And no, those aren't "biased" or skewed statistics from some liberal, commie, anti-gun group. Those are just the hard, cold numeralical facts from the US Department of Justice's website (go look if you don't believe me).

The DoJ publishes a crime report every year, and in that report you'll find all sorts of interesting statistics.

For example:

A) Out of all violent crime involving guns (both offensively and defensively), the gun was only used SUCCESSFULLY to ward off an attack LESS THAN 1% of time.

B ) MOST violent crimes involving guns do NOT involve a defense against a strangerr attack (or an attack by a stranger). MOST violent crimes involving guns involve people who know each other (ie. family members)

C) Four hundred thousand guns are purchased every year in America. Strangely enough, nearly three and a half thousand guns are STOLEN every year.... do... the... math... people!! Anyone who buys a gun to make themselves individually safer, is--in fact--making society collectively LESS safe, because guns are stolen at nearly the same rate they are being bought. Which essentially means that honest, hard-working people are paying to arm the criminal element.

That's a funny one, actually. Because a lot of pro-gun groups will say that if you take guns out of the hands of private citizens, then only the criminals will have guns. But that is--in fact--a load of horsesh't. The reality is that if there are no guns in the home to steal, then the CRIMINALS CAN'T STEAL GUNS. Hence, if you take the guns out of the homes, you take the guns out of the hands of criminals.

Funny how that works....

There are tons more of statistics on that website, so go check out the DoJ if you're looking for some interesting reading. Mind you, the DoJ is a pretty conservative group of people (cops, FBI, etc...) and most of them are gun owners too, so it's not like they are going to go around advocating gun-control unless they really felt it was a good idea (and they do, since it means they won't get shot at as much).

So I could understand if someone wants to pish-posh the liberals for advocating gun-control. But when the DoJ steps in and says its a good idea, conservatives SHOULD listen to that.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm NOT anti-gun. H e l l , I grew up in farm country and everyone I knew had guns, and we used guns all the time. Heck, I got my first gun when I was TWELVE, and I even had to take my gun TO SCHOOL for a two-week gun safety class during P&E (in this day and age, the idea of a twelve-year-old taking a gun to school conjures an entirely different image, right?).

The big difference is we were all raised to NEVER point a gun at another human being. EVER.

Didn't matter if it was loaded or not. Pointing a gun at someone got you a smack in the head from the nearest adult and a long, long lecture on proper manners. It was considered a huge insult to do something like that, and you'd be lucky if you were allowed to keep your gun after that.

So the notion of using a gun "in self-defense" wasn't something we were taught.

Want to defend yourself? Take up karate.

Want to shot bottles, targets, skeet, squirrels, ducks, or deer? Buy a gun.

Want to shot people? Seek professional help.

Most people think they can wave a gun around and suddenly they're invincible. But the simple fact is, firing a weapon is a SKILL that takes PRACTICE, and firing a weapon under pressure or extreme circumstances is ANOTHER SKILL that takes a specific KIND of practice. It's not something that you can pick up one weekend a month at a firing range (and how many people practice that often anyway??).

Trust me on this one. Most people are COMPLETE IDIOTS when it comes to handling a weapon. They have no clue how to properly and safely discharge a gun and are FAR more likely to shoot themselves (or someone other than their intended target) than what they are aiming at.

I used to referee games on a paintball range, and trust me, I KNOW people can't shoot to save their lives (I came home with bruises every night proving that fact).

Plus I'd see the most idiotic behavior imaginable. People TAKING OFF THEIR MASKS to LOOK down the barrel of a gun to see if it was jammed (the mind boggles at the stupidity!!). People "playfully" shooting each other in the break area (a crowded room full of innocent bystanders). And much, much more.

Coming from a farm culture, such as I did, and given my own personal experience with guns, I came to the conclusion that city people just should not be allowed NEAR a gun. It turns them into complete morons. They start rolling around like Chow Yung Fat on crack, and they actually believe that they can hit something while diving or running (trust me, you CAN'T). They were far more likely to shoot themselves or their teammates (in the back of the head at close range, ouch!) or ME, than they were the guy they were trying to hit.

Anyone who's worked or played at a paintball range can attest to that. Amateurs are DANGEROUS. Very, very, very dangerous!!!

I used to consider myself a pretty good shot, on a firing range shooting at targets or in a tree stand hunting deer), but it wasn't until I started playing paintball that I realized how hard it is to shoot a gun on the fly. It's REALLY different, and all that swirling-around-in-slo-mo crap you see in the movies is GARBAGE. The simple fact is, that "ideal" situation you dream about, where you hear the criminal, calmly grab your gun, and walk into the room brandishing the weapon and show him who's the REAL boss, is just that a DREAM. A fantasy. A DELUSION.

The reality is that having a gun in your home makes your home MORE unsafe, not less.

And the simple fact is, that most people buy a gun, put it in a drawer (quite often loaded and with no trigger lock) and forget about it. And then for some deluded reason, they consider themselves safe.... why!?!?!? Did they practice with that gun? No. Did they practice A LOT with that gun? Heck no. Did they practice with that gun under extreme pressure? H E L L no.

And even if you are the perfect gun owner, and you keep your gun CLEAN and properly maintained, and you practice with it weekly, and you keep it in a safe place (like a SAFE), unloaded and with a trigger-lock installed, the fact is that your home is STILL unsafe. Why? Because robbers typically don't break into homes when you are there. They wait until you leave, and then they come in and TAKE YOUR GUN. So now you've just made every home in your neighborhood a little less safe, because there's a felon out there who's just been armed (by you!).

Want to be a movie hero and pretend you're Charles Bronson? Go play paintball. I'm sure the pro players on the field would love to paint your newbie ass with bruises.

But if you want to make your home more safe? Buy a dog.

I can't remember the exact statistic, but it's something like: having a dog in the home makes it 50% less likely that your home will be robbed. Even a small dog reduces the odds because burglars HATE noise and dogs (shock!) bark (and barking = noise). On the flip side, having a gun in your home makes you (or someone in that home) 50% more likely to die of gun violence!!!

In other words: Dogs = more safe. Guns = less safe.

An empty house (even one that has a gun in it), is still AN EMPTY HOUSE.

A gun all by itself does NOTHING to protect you and your loved ones. You have to HAVE it, and you have to KNOW how to use it. Are you planning on packing heat every time you walk out the door? Great. Good for you. Then it seems to me, that the only time you'd be 'unprotected' is when you are AT HOME (unless you plan on wearing your gun in the shower or while you are sleeping). The movies (and some pro-gun websites) may tell you about the few times that a gun was successfully used in self-defense, but the Department of Justice begs to differ. According to them, your home is less safe the minute you bring a gun into it.

Want to protect your loved ones? Don't buy a gun.

[meadish_sweetball]

A) You manage to reach your firearm (is it kept loaded? do you have one in every room?) and blow the mother-f'cker away. You're a hero, wooohooo!

B ) You manage to reach your firearm, and even though it's not loaded, you manage to bluff the felon into thinking you're going to use it, and he wets himself and runs away. You're a hero again, woooohooo!

C) You don't reach your firearm in time, and the bad guy does what he wants anyway, just like he'd do if you didn't have a gun. So not are you only robbed/raped/beaten/kidnapped or whatever, but you're also out the 40K baht you spent on a completely useless hunk of metal.

D) The bad guy breaks in while you're not home, finds your firearm, and steals it. Thank you for PAYING to help arm the criminal population of this country. I'm sure the family of that gun's next victim will appreciate your contribution.

E) The bad guy breaks in while you're not home, finds your firearm, and then you walk in the door. Boy, does it SUCK to be shot with your own gun. I hear it actually hurts more tongue.gif.

F) Nobody breaks into your home, but a kid or retarded relative finds the gun and shots himself or a friend. Ummm, wait weren't you just expressing a desire to protect yourself and loved ones with something more than sweet words? How do you feel now that you're the one responsible for bringing the intrument of that harm into the home?

G) Nobody breaks into your home, but you and/or your wife are having a big fight, and someone (in a fit of rage) decides to take it to the next level. Bang, well... that "solves" the domestic dispute.... sort of.... well, not really....

No mate, YOU are MY hero. That's a class A post, and that's a FACT.

[RamdomChances]

I used to referee games on a paintball range, and trust me, I KNOW people can't shoot to save their lives (I came home with bruises every night proving that fact).

Mabye they could shoot very well, prehaps they shot what they were aiming for

Seriously, good post I agree.

[p1p]

Much better idea!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A) You manage to reach your firearm (is it kept loaded? do you have one in every room?) and blow the mother-f'cker away. You're a hero, wooohooo!

B ) You manage to reach your firearm, and even though it's not loaded, you manage to bluff the felon into thinking you're going to use it, and he wets himself and runs away. You're a hero again, woooohooo!

C) You don't reach your firearm in time, and the bad guy does what he wants anyway, just like he'd do if you didn't have a gun. So not are you only robbed/raped/beaten/kidnapped or whatever, but you're also out the 40K baht you spent on a completely useless hunk of metal.

D) The bad guy breaks in while you're not home, finds your firearm, and steals it. Thank you for PAYING to help arm the criminal population of this country. I'm sure the family of that gun's next victim will appreciate your contribution.

E) The bad guy breaks in while you're not home, finds your firearm, and then you walk in the door. Boy, does it SUCK to be shot with your own gun. I hear it actually hurts more tongue.gif.

F) Nobody breaks into your home, but a kid or retarded relative finds the gun and shots himself or a friend. Ummm, wait weren't you just expressing a desire to protect yourself and loved ones with something more than sweet words? How do you feel now that you're the one responsible for bringing the intrument of that harm into the home?

G) Nobody breaks into your home, but you and/or your wife are having a big fight, and someone (in a fit of rage) decides to take it to the next level. Bang, well... that "solves" the domestic dispute.... sort of.... well, not really....

No mate, YOU are MY hero. That's a class A post, and that's a FACT.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could not agree more. That is BY FAR the best piece I have recently seen on gun control. With your permission I would like to copy it and use it in a book I am putting together. Please PM me if that is OK.

I have a gun. I also have seven dogs, two of which are Rotweilers. The gun is kept broken down and wrapped in oil cloth, locked in a "Burgular Proof*" safe. Amunition is also kept locked up, but seperately.

I hate guns. I have experience with them, can use them, and my respect for them is total. I would personally like to see them all destroyed!

I only have this firearm because it was given to me by a senior police officer here. I have only ever fired it on a range, and, unless war breaks out, it will only ever be used there. My children do not know it exists.

My feelings regarding the NRA and such organisations would, if printed, not only get me banned from this forum, but possibly arrested as well.

Do not get a gun.

(*Burglar Proof Safe: I am a director and major shareholder in a UK based security company. Having inspected the quality of locks & safes available here, I imported my own from the UK.)

[Pudgimelon]

I used to referee games on a paintball range, and trust me, I KNOW people can't shoot to save their lives (I came home with bruises every night proving that fact).

Mabye they could shoot very well, prehaps they shot what they were aiming for

Seriously, good post I agree.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Knowing that I'd kick their butt off the field if they shot me on purpose, most people tried to avoid shooting anywhere near me. I'm sure that since I'm a bit of a jerk, I got my fair share of intentional hits, but for the most part, I'd say that the hits I got were unintentional errors.

Anyway, may main point on the topic of this thread is that if the guy wants to make his home safe from terrorists or thugs, he should NOT buy a gun.

A nice big dog would serve the same purpose, only better. If your gun is in the other room when the bad guys break in, it's not going to run out and bite them, right? A dog will. Plus terrorists can't steal your dog and force it to bite you, but they can steal your gun and shoot you with it.

It is VERY true that a gun would be handy to have if your house was invaded by terrorists. No doubt about it. I'd certainly want to be armed in that kind of situation, so I can definitely see why someone might consider buying a gun for "self-protection".

But it is also very true, that it is FAR, FAR more likely that those same terrorists will wait until you are gone, and then break into your house and steal your money and gun(s). You've now just armed the terrorists and made them A LOT more dangerous.

See how that works?

Even though Thailand is a bit rough around the edges, it's still a civil, modern society (for the most part). This is not the Wild West or Feudal Europe, it's a civil society. And that means we are supposed to "buy into" a society contract which limits our behavior a bit in exchange for collective self-protection from lawlessness.

Therefore, as long as we exist in a civil society, we are supposed to buy into the COLLECTIVE methods of protection (police, fire department, etc...). You don't need to buy your own fire truck to protect your family, correct? You protect your family from fire with preventatives (like proper electrical wiring) and warnings (smoke alarms), but you leave the FIGHTING of fires up to the fire department (well, maybe not in Thailand, but in most countries, that's what you'd do).

Likewise, you protect yourself from crime with preventatives (like fencing, dogs, and locks) and warnings (dogs, burglar alarms), but you are supposed to leave the FIGHTING of criminals up to the police (again, maybe not in Thailand, but in theory, that's how it'd work).

Buying a gun actually CONTRIBUTES to the risks your family faces, since not only does it increase the likelihood of gun violence in your home, but it also contributes to the general lawlessness of your environment. Once the population starts arming itself, it means that the social contract is starting to break down. And once that happens, no amount of firepower will save you (because by that time, EVERYONE will be armed).

If you want to protect your family, you should make inquiries into how the police are protecting your neighborhood, and if you don't feel it's satisfactory, then you should find a way to improve the situation. THAT would be a far better course of action than adding one more lethal weapon to an already fragile situation.

[meemiathai]

2 very good posts.

but you forgot to mention not to go to Nana.

[Wolfie]

And I've got that paintgun. Thirteen .68 caliber rounds per second, moving at 300+ feet per second.... 400 round 'clip'. Not likely lethal, but certainly effective!

I used to have a paintball gun back in the UK, with the right springs in it and some handy sized marbles it can make an extreemly useful deterrent. Of course changing the springs inside the gun changes the classification in the UK. I think it was something like anything over 350ft per sec classifies it as a weapon, not sporting equipment.

Just remember playing paintball on those frosty/snow covered mornings, those paintballs dont explode on contact like they are supposed to and they are REALLY hard, hurts like ######...

Paintball was fun

[KhunPadThai]

The arguments against gun ownership are certainly true and correct and I agree with them completely. However, they are not persuasive to gun owners. For some reason we Americans increasingly choose to ignore reality in favor of feelings. So, although the statistics about gun accidents make clear the increased risk from ownership, the gun owners "feel" safer having a weapon in the house. Why Americans feel so afraid to begin with is another question, but to a large number of them gun ownership is the answer. The same is true of SUV cars. Because the driver rides higher he feels superior to others on the road and therefore safer. It is true that in crash tests SUVs take less damage than smaller cars. However and more importantly, SUVs are more likely to experience crashes than smaller cars and so are less sare. Statistically, you and your beloved family are safer in a VW Jetta. SUVs are only a rational option if you accept that a crash is unavoidable. Nevertheless, the sales of SUVs continue to go up and up.

I don't know what it is in American culture that turns the majority so decisively away from facing reality toward fantasy. It could be the tsunami of entertainment media or the simple-minded Calvinism. And this goes without even mentioning the election.

Khun Pad Thai

[Neeranam]

Much better idea!

Here here

[Nam Kao]

Say fellas, I am Liberal and I say you guys dont need any guns, guns are

for mean people. Here in my little Liberal world you only need cute little

peace signs like Ajarns, he's got a real nice one and its real cool. My world

is full of flowers and songs and I backpack all over and everything is so swell.

I voted for my hero Mr John Kerry and that mean gun owning Bush got in!

I was so so mad !! I felt really really angry. But I went into the forest and

hugged some trees and felt at one the Universe! It was sooo cool! I know that

meanie Bush is gonna take all of their oil and build millions of SUVs and cut

down all my trees!! That would definitely not be cool for my little world. Hey

look here comes a peaceful Islamic man, maybe i can give him a group hug

and he'll stop making bombs and killing people! That would be cool! Hey

Mr Islamic man what is that knife for? Hmmm I think he wants to give me a shave. OK

I trust him, after all he is really just mis-understood. Oh Mr Islamic guy

be careful with that kniiiifffeeeee!!! AAHGHHHH AHHH Gurgle Gurgle

[jackr]

Say fellas, I am Liberal and I say you guys dont need any guns, guns are

for mean people. Here in my little Liberal world you only need cute little

peace signs like Ajarns, he's got a real nice one and its real cool. My world

is full of flowers and songs and I backpack all over and everything is so swell.

I voted for my hero Mr John Kerry and that mean gun owning Bush got in!

I was so so mad !!  I felt really really angry. But I went into the forest and

hugged some trees and felt at one the Universe! It was sooo cool!  I know that

meanie Bush is gonna take all of their oil and build millions of SUVs and cut

down all my trees!!  That would definitely not be cool for my little world. Hey

look here comes a peaceful Islamic man, maybe i can give him a group hug

and he'll stop making bombs and killing people!  That would be cool!  Hey

Mr Islamic man what is that knife for? Hmmm I think he wants to give me a shave. OK

I trust him, after all he is really just mis-understood. Oh Mr Islamic guy

be careful with that kniiiifffeeeee!!!  AAHGHHHH  AHHH Gurgle Gurgle 

hhmmmmm...

[meom]

Trust me on this one.  Most people are COMPLETE IDIOTS when it comes to handling a weapon.  They have no clue how to properly and safely discharge a gun and are FAR more likely to shoot themselves (or someone other than their intended target) than what they are aiming at.

But if you want to make your home more safe?  Buy a dog.

Most of the things you write make sense but in my opinion most people are also complete idiots when it comes to taking care of a dog so I am not sure if this is such good advice.

How many toddlers, children and mailmen get mistakenly bitten each year by dogs due to the fact that their owners don't have a clue how to take care animals.

I'd rather see those people shoot themselves by mistake in the foot instead of buying dogs.

[Boon Mee]

Well, one other viable option aside from a gun/dog/geese to protect your home is a Taser. The type that shoots the dart so you don't have to get too close.

Does anyone know if they are available in LOS?

[c130nav]

Seems like everyone on this board seems to be against guns. I just wanted to share my experiences based on gun ownership. I have had two incidents in my lifetime where a gun has saved at a very minimum my property and quite possibly my life.

The first time I have every used a gun in self defense was in Texas. After a night of riding motorcycle with my friend we decided to head home. During our ride home it started to rain so we pulled into a parking garage to stay dry. It was about 3 am so there was only a handfull of cars there. There was however a small group of young guys in one corner of the garage. After a few moments a couple of them approached my friend and I. At first I thought nothing of it because people always seems to be interested in our bikes. This time however things were a little different. I noticed as the first two came up from the front one of there friends was walking around the backside of us. At this point I went on alert and put my hand on my concealed handgun. My suspicsions about these guys came to light when one of them told us to "get the f*** off those bikes". I just calmly responded by saying "I don't think so" while flashing my gun a little. I didn't even point it at any of them, I just wanted to let them know that I had it. This seemed to be all it took since they took off in different directions as fast as they could.

The second incident happened when I was visting my family in florida. I was sleeping when I heard a knock at the door. I answered it and it turned out to be a guy basically begging for money by giving some fake hard luck story. I quickly and I admit rudely told him to leave. He didn't take kindly to this and decided that he wasn't finshed with his conversation. At this point he forced the front door open with his foot and was trying to push past me. This is when my brother who had heard the escalation of the situation came out of his bedroom with a shotgun. Needless to say the man started apologizing profusly and was quite happy to leave.

Now, neither of these incidents resulted in anyone getting hurt and neither of them ended up in any statisitic about the effectiveness of guns as a deterent. I may be the exception to the rule when it comes to guns but so far I have not injured my self or others and have been in two situations where a gun was effectively used to deter crime. Now keep in mind that I have had extensive training on the use and carry of firearms due to my prior service in the marines so this probably decreases my chances of self or accidental injury. Because of this I don't reccomend just any one off the street to go and buy an ak-47. I do however feel that a little training and common sense can eliminate the chances of the accidental injury and increase your effectiveness in protecting yourself.

[thaiflyer1]

I  can  understand  where  you  are  coming  from  but, if  it  comes  down  to  anyone  wanting  to  harm  me  or  mine  i/d  like  something  a  little  more  than  sweet  words  to  stop  them.........but  each  to  their  own  i  suppose.

Let's consider the possibilities when someone breaks into your house (while you are sleeping? eating dinner? sitting on the can? watching porn on the telie?). Here's some possible outcomes:

A) You manage to reach your firearm (is it kept loaded? do you have one in every room?) and blow the mother-f'cker away. You're a hero, wooohooo!

B ) You manage to reach your firearm, and even though it's not loaded, you manage to bluff the felon into thinking you're going to use it, and he wets himself and runs away. You're a hero again, woooohooo!

C) You don't reach your firearm in time, and the bad guy does what he wants anyway, just like he'd do if you didn't have a gun. So not are you only robbed/raped/beaten/kidnapped or whatever, but you're also out the 40K baht you spent on a completely useless hunk of metal.

D) The bad guy breaks in while you're not home, finds your firearm, and steals it. Thank you for PAYING to help arm the criminal population of this country. I'm sure the family of that gun's next victim will appreciate your contribution.

E) The bad guy breaks in while you're not home, finds your firearm, and then you walk in the door. Boy, does it SUCK to be shot with your own gun. I hear it actually hurts more .

F) Nobody breaks into your home, but a kid or retarded relative finds the gun and shots himself or a friend. Ummm, wait weren't you just expressing a desire to protect yourself and loved ones with something more than sweet words? How do you feel now that you're the one responsible for bringing the intrument of that harm into the home?

G) Nobody breaks into your home, but you and/or your wife are having a big fight, and someone (in a fit of rage) decides to take it to the next level. Bang, well... that "solves" the domestic dispute.... sort of.... well, not really....

Seems like a lot more things could go wrong with a gun in the home, than if one was not in the home.

And statistically speaking, that's not an opinion, it's fact. And no, those aren't "biased" or skewed statistics from some liberal, commie, anti-gun group. Those are just the hard, cold numeralical facts from the US Department of Justice's website (go look if you don't believe me).

The DoJ publishes a crime report every year, and in that report you'll find all sorts of interesting statistics.

For example:

A) Out of all violent crime involving guns (both offensively and defensively), the gun was only used SUCCESSFULLY to ward off an attack LESS THAN 1% of time.

B ) MOST violent crimes involving guns do NOT involve a defense against a strangerr attack (or an attack by a stranger). MOST violent crimes involving guns involve people who know each other (ie. family members)

C) Forty-one MILLION guns are purchased every year in America. Strangely enough, nearly FORTY MILLION guns are STOLEN every year.... do... the... math... people!! Anyone who buys a gun to make themselves individually safer, is--in fact--making society collectively LESS safe, because guns are stolen at nearly the same rate they are being bought. Which essentially means that honest, hard-working people are paying to arm the criminal element.

That's a funny one, actually. Because a lot of pro-gun groups will say that if you take guns out of the hands of private citizens, then only the criminals will have guns. But that is--in fact--a load of horsesh't. The reality is that if there are no guns in the home to steal, then the CRIMINALS CAN'T STEAL GUNS. Hence, if you take the guns out of the homes, you take the guns out of the hands of criminals.

Funny how that works....

There are tons more of statistics on that website, so go check out the DoJ if you're looking for some interesting reading. Mind you, the DoJ is a pretty conservative group of people (cops, FBI, etc...) and most of them are gun owners too, so it's not like they are going to go around advocating gun-control unless they really felt it was a good idea (and they do, since it means they won't get shot at as much).

So I could understand if someone wants to pish-posh the liberals for advocating gun-control. But when the DoJ steps in and says its a good idea, conservatives SHOULD listen to that.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm NOT anti-gun. H e l l , I grew up in farm country and everyone I knew had guns, and we used guns all the time. Heck, I got my first gun when I was TWELVE, and I even had to take my gun TO SCHOOL for a two-week gun safety class during P&E (in this day and age, the idea of a twelve-year-old taking a gun to school conjures an entirely different image, right?).

The big difference is we were all raised to NEVER point a gun at another human being. EVER.

Didn't matter if it was loaded or not. Pointing a gun at someone got you a smack in the head from the nearest adult and a long, long lecture on proper manners. It was considered a huge insult to do something like that, and you'd be lucky if you were allowed to keep your gun after that.

So the notion of using a gun "in self-defense" wasn't something we were taught.

Want to defend yourself? Take up karate.

Want to shot bottles, targets, skeet, squirrels, ducks, or deer? Buy a gun.

Want to shot people? Seek professional help.

Most people think they can wave a gun around and suddenly they're invincible. But the simple fact is, firing a weapon is a SKILL that takes PRACTICE, and firing a weapon under pressure or extreme circumstances is ANOTHER SKILL that takes a specific KIND of practice. It's not something that you can pick up one weekend a month at a firing range (and how many people practice that often anyway??).

Trust me on this one. Most people are COMPLETE IDIOTS when it comes to handling a weapon. They have no clue how to properly and safely discharge a gun and are FAR more likely to shoot themselves (or someone other than their intended target) than what they are aiming at.

I used to referee games on a paintball range, and trust me, I KNOW people can't shoot to save their lives (I came home with bruises every night proving that fact).

Plus I'd see the most idiotic behavior imaginable. People TAKING OFF THEIR MASKS to LOOK down the barrel of a gun to see if it was jammed (the mind boggles at the stupidity!!). People "playfully" shooting each other in the break area (a crowded room full of innocent bystanders). And much, much more.

Coming from a farm culture, such as I did, and given my own personal experience with guns, I came to the conclusion that city people just should not be allowed NEAR a gun. It turns them into complete morons. They start rolling around like Chow Yung Fat on crack, and they actually believe that they can hit something while diving or running (trust me, you CAN'T). They were far more likely to shoot themselves or their teammates (in the back of the head at close range, ouch!) or ME, than they were the guy they were trying to hit.

Anyone who's worked or played at a paintball range can attest to that. Amateurs are DANGEROUS. Very, very, very dangerous!!!

I used to consider myself a pretty good shot, on a firing range shooting at targets or in a tree stand hunting deer), but it wasn't until I started playing paintball that I realized how hard it is to shoot a gun on the fly. It's REALLY different, and all that swirling-around-in-slo-mo crap you see in the movies is GARBAGE. The simple fact is, that "ideal" situation you dream about, where you hear the criminal, calmly grab your gun, and walk into the room brandishing the weapon and show him who's the REAL boss, is just that a DREAM. A fantasy. A DELUSION.

The reality is that having a gun in your home makes your home MORE unsafe, not less.

And the simple fact is, that most people buy a gun, put it in a drawer (quite often loaded and with no trigger lock) and forget about it. And then for some deluded reason, they consider themselves safe.... why!?!?!? Did they practice with that gun? No. Did they practice A LOT with that gun? Heck no. Did they practice with that gun under extreme pressure? H E L L no.

And even if you are the perfect gun owner, and you keep your gun CLEAN and properly maintained, and you practice with it weekly, and you keep it in a safe place (like a SAFE), unloaded and with a trigger-lock installed, the fact is that your home is STILL unsafe. Why? Because robbers typically don't break into homes when you are there. They wait until you leave, and then they come in and TAKE YOUR GUN. So now you've just made every home in your neighborhood a little less safe, because there's a felon out there who's just been armed (by you!).

Want to be a movie hero and pretend you're Charles Bronson? Go play paintball. I'm sure the pro players on the field would love to paint your newbie ass with bruises.

But if you want to make your home more safe? Buy a dog.

I can't remember the exact statistic, but it's something like: having a dog in the home makes it 50% less likely that your home will be robbed. Even a small dog reduces the odds because burglars HATE noise and dogs (shock!) bark (and barking = noise). On the flip side, having a gun in your home makes you (or someone in that home) 50% more likely to die of gun violence!!!

In other words: Dogs = more safe. Guns = less safe.

An empty house (even one that has a gun in it), is still AN EMPTY HOUSE.

A gun all by itself does NOTHING to protect you and your loved ones. You have to HAVE it, and you have to KNOW how to use it. Are you planning on packing heat every time you walk out the door? Great. Good for you. Then it seems to me, that the only time you'd be 'unprotected' is when you are AT HOME (unless you plan on wearing your gun in the shower or while you are sleeping). The movies (and some pro-gun websites) may tell you about the few times that a gun was successfully used in self-defense, but the Department of Justice begs to differ. According to them, your home is less safe the minute you bring a gun into it.

Want to protect your loved ones? Don't buy a gun.

Nice post but.........what a load of codswallop..............i/m not as eloquent as you but obviously you should stick to teaching and not dishing out advice on the real world! Incase you didnt notice this is Thailand not the good old US of A..........but i will remember to tell the next &lt;deleted&gt; who breaks into my home your outlook............just before he departs this planet.

[stroll]

I have had two incidents in my lifetime where a gun has saved at a very minimum my property and quite possibly my life. 

The first time I have every used a gun in self defense was in Texas. 

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Good old Texas.

The second incident happened when I was visting my family in florida.  ... it turned out to be a guy basically begging for money by giving some fake hard luck story.  I quickly and I admit rudely told him to leave. ...At this point he forced the front door open with his foot and was trying to push past me.  This is when my brother who had heard the escalation of the situation came out of his bedroom with a shotgun. 

I suggest the reaction was well over the top. This is where the stereotype of the gun-slinging Texan comes from. In Thailand you won't find people threatening a beggar with a shotgun. Nor in my homecountry, You'd find yourself examining the inside of a police cell within half an hour. If you consider your and your brother's actions legitimate self defense, stay in Texas, do not come to Thailand. It is hardly surprising that invading other nations is regarded as selfdefense as well.

Well, one other viable option aside from a gun/dog/geese to protect your home is a Taser. 

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Ducks seem to be effective in keeping intruders out. :D

[RamdomChances]

Nice post but.........what a load of codswallop..............i/m not as eloquent as you but obviously you should stick to teaching and not dishing out advice on the real world! Incase you didnt notice this is Thailand not the good old US of A..........but i will remember to tell the next &lt;deleted&gt; who breaks into my home your outlook............just before he departs this planet

Nice rebuttal of his arguments there thaiflyer1, were you ever on a debating team in school

Did you have to '"quote" the whole post it takes sooo long to scrole through .

[stroll]

He wants to make it look as if he's read it...

[penzman]

We always leave the TV on with sound when we`re not home , you can clearly see and hear it from outside. I`ve done that for years back in Canada, never got robbed.

I`m not interested in owning a gun as it can fall into the wrong hands if we do get robbed.

Also, my neighbour is an army guy, looks like a killing machine, he may come in handy.

Our dog seems to be learning to defend his patch as well.

[stroll]

A gun is obviously not gonna be any good when you are not at home during a burglary, Penzman.

[penzman]

Leave the TV on a Thai station showing soaps, there`s always a gun flashing on there.

[stroll]

What is the IQ requirement for being a supermoderator, or doesn't it matter?

[Pudgimelon]

Ducks seem to be effective in keeping intruders out. 

You've obviously never owned geese or swans (or turkeys for that matter). Those birds are f'ing MEAN.

A friend of mine had his arm broken by a swan, so trust me, they may look funny wadingly around, but if you invade their turf, they most certainly will do a lot of damage to you.

Geese and swans have incredibly powerful wing strokes (how else is such a heavy bird going to get airborne?), and like turkeys, their bites are quite painful.

So after they bite your 'nads (causing you to topple over in pain), they proceed to beat the living crap out of you with their wings. You'll be LUCKY if they ONLY break an arm or a leg.

I can't see ducks being an effective deterent, but a couple of mean ol' ganders? I'd stay the ###### away from them if I were you.

[Khutan]

Just to put a slightly different perspective forward..... (Moderators prepare for it...)

If you have a weapon for self defence, be it a gun, a sword or whatever, you need to be trained in its proper use and also be willing to use it.

Going to a range and blasting away at cardboard cut-outs of the "Bad guy of the month" for many people is good fun, further to that seeing it portrayed in various media forms, desensitises us to the real use of weapons, and particularly firearms.

With that in mind how many people can say they can actually shoot someone ? A simple question, for me I sometimes found it difficult in combat, when serving in the army. Its all well and fine to go and buy a gun or a Samurai sword or a chainsaw, but would you actually use it.

Remember military and to a lesser extent police training has you regularly pulling the trigger, with simulated and live fire exercises. You are trained over and over and over again, so pulling the trigger is second nature.

If you hesitate pulling the trigger, think how quickly your assailant will and and attempt to disarm you. Once you are disarmed you will be in a very difficult position. While you are disarmed, there is a good chance you may also get shot.

So I suppose the moral of this tale is, if you can walk up to someone and use lethal force, then a gun is probably your thing, otherwise, you should consider alternatives.

[stroll]

"if you can walk up to someone and use lethal force, then a gun is probably your thing," only if you are a policeman or soldier, I'd say it is not the role of citizens to walk up to anybody to use lethal force (such individuals should be imprisoned), a quick read of any thread on the subject of paedophilia or Muslims will prove my point.

Guns are not an option, not even for perceived selfdefense.

[Ajarn]

you only need cute little

peace signs like Ajarns, he's got a real nice one and its real cool

Thanks, and I completely agree. Think more about Peace.

Here are some peace symbols I've made for my website that you're welcome to use... Kinda like a Buddha amulet, I'd say. It might not save your life, but it will help to get your thinking on a better track

Edited November 9, 2004 by Ajarn

[IamMaiC]

you only need cute little

peace signs like Ajarns, he's got a real nice one and its real cool

Thanks, and I completely agree. Think more about Peace.

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Yeah, Right

[thaiflyer1]

He wants to make it look as if he's read it...

Ok i put my hands up..........i did nod off half way through it.