Farangs With Guns!

[jackr]

I'll probably never get one...just wanted to know if farangs can be legal and from the previous replies, it looks like it. The choice is there...

[igotworms]

Perhaps you've never been harmed, but do you know anyone who has?  While living in Hatyai, I've known a few people who were directly affected by criminal activity.  A fellow teacher's uncle (farang) had been murdered in his home, two people who were robbed at knifepoint (farangs), one guy who was robbed here in Phuket at gunpoint (farang), a chef who was murdered outside a restaurant 500 m from my house, farang girls who have been stalked by motorbike taxi guys and tuk-tuk drivers,...and the list goes on.  Perhaps, you and I have been lucky, but many others haven't been.  Did I say that anti-gun enthusiasts were ignorant?  No.  Just those who fail to recognize that Thailand's criminal underground is massive and nearly unchecked.

You think that by owning a gun, YOU can single-handedly protect yourself and your loved ones from Thailand's "massive and unchecked criminal underground"??

Take a close look at all the examples you posted. Could a gun have PREVENTED any of these crimes??

Maybe.

But more likely: NO.

The guy murdered in his home? How many people you know who pack heat while at home? Someone breaks in while your sleeping, crapping, showering, eating, or watching TV and that gun you keep in the house is going to do JACK-S--T (except get STOLEN after they murder you and used in other crimes, thank you very much).

The people robbed at gunpoint and knifepoint? You think a gun would have saved them? Unless you're walking around with a gun IN YOUR HAND, how is a gun going to stop an assailant from pulling a weapon on you? And unless you live in a John Woo movie, you're not frigg'n likely to slap the knife out of his hand and pull your weapon before he sticks you. The more likely outcome will be that you piss yourself while he steals your money AND your gun (thank you very much).

The chef murdered outside a restaurant? Would a gun have saved him? Maybe, but even if he'd had a gun, how is that going to prevent an ambush in a back alley while he's taking out the trash?

The women getting stalked by tuk-tuk drivers? Is a gun going to save them? Maybe. But is she going to be willing to use it? And if she is, while she be correct or will she just gun down some innocent, but "suspicious-looking" taxi driver?? And in that moment she hestitates to make up her mind about drawing the weapon, an attacker could be on her. Once that's happened, a SELF-DEFENSE COURSE in unarmed combat would have done A LOT more to protect her than any gun buried at the bottom of her purse (have you ever seen the inside of a woman's purse? It takes them half-an-hour to find their keys, yet you expect them to whip out a gun in a crisis situation?). Again, the more likely outcome is that the woman will end up raped, robbed (again putting another gun on the streets, thank you very much).

While reading that DoJ statistical website I came around an interesting statistic: While most firearm THEFTS occur in home burglaries, 32% of thefts occur in a larceny from the person!!!!!

Does that register in your head??

Many guns are stolen right off their owners!!!!

Simply put: your delusion of "protection" endangers everyone else.

This must be the 3rd or 4th time you've twisted someone's post in order to spew your rubbish. I was countering the notion that Thailand is a G-rated Disney Land of smiles and good samaritins.

We get your point: guns bad, people stupid, criminals unstoppable. You can say or do whatever you the heck you want, but I'll stick to my guns.

[Padkapow Guy]

They can have my guns after they pry my cold dead fingers off of them.

[siamruby]

Whatever people say about guns here. As a Thai I will stick to my big brother's wisdom and when we move to LOS, we will get a gun or two

Let me tell you about my brother, he took early retirement last year as a police officer, a police General in fact. When we went to LOS we stayed at his house. He told me that hence we got young children with us he is NOT CARRYING A GUN! Then he told us that he carries his gun with him around the HOUSE at all time. When he sits on the sofa watching TV the gun is alway alongside him. I think I got the best advice regarding guns from the best person . And please don't get me wrong ,my brother is a really decent man and don't believe in killing anyone. He told me in all his career he has never killed anyone, shot them may be but never aimed to kill.

[Heng]

If we get one it will be kept locked up.

I can just see this..

It's the middle of the night, there is the sound of breaking glass followed by a door opening. Yep, no doubt about it - someone is breaking in.

Now, where the <deleted> did I put the keys to the gun cupboard?

Probably not the best place to keep firearms if you feel like you might need it. A bedside codebox unlocked (but latched) each night as part of your routine (right after brushing your teeth and turning the tumblers on your safes for grins). Your motion sensors (or even just your door/window sensors if you're the type to wander down to the kitchen in the middle of the night) or dogs should be able to let you know if something is amiss. And even then, you don't need to shoot anyone... you can hit the panic button which lights up your whole property and sets off sirens if you just want to scare them away. If they keep coming, you're not dealing with a thief and a replica or paintball gun is probably not going to be your weapon of choice then.

[Pudgimelon]

Then he told us that he carries his gun with him around the HOUSE at all time. When he sits on the sofa watching TV the gun is alway alongside him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you say, "Paranoia?"

[thaiflyer1]

Then he told us that he carries his gun with him around the HOUSE at all time. When he sits on the sofa watching TV the gun is alway alongside him.

Can you say, "Paranoia?"

Wouldnt know but i bet she knows the sentence....."its better to be safe than sorry"

[Pudgimelon]

Wouldnt  know  but  i  bet  she  knows  the  sentence....."its  better  to  be  safe  than  sorry"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you mean to say: "Better to be fearful than rational and realistic."

At least, that seems to be the motto of the "self-protection-via-firearms" crowd on these forums.

Safe would be a good strong door with a quality lock, an alarm system, and a dog. Those would all be appropriate ways of protecting one's self and property.

But wearing a piece while watching soaps on TV? That's borderline psychotic.

Guns don't protect people. Dogs do.

Guns aren't safe. They don't "make you safe". And they are next to USELESS when it comes to self-defense. (and that is a PROVEABLE FACT).

Remember, 32% of all gun thefts occur off the person holding the weapon. So the poster who said "they can have it when they pry it from my cold dead hands" isn't far off the mark. They most certainly will have it. And thanks a bunch for helping to arm the criminals.

A gun is a sporting/hunting tool, it is NOT a self-defense cure-all.

You want to feel safe? Call your mommy and have her mail your old security blanket to you, you thumb-sucker.

[thaiflyer1]

You want to feel safe?  Call your mommy and have her mail your old security blanket to you, you thumb-sucker.

Excellent rebuttal..........at least youve come down to my level now .

[davethailand]

Safe would be a good strong door with a quality lock, an alarm system, and a dog. Those would all be appropriate ways of protecting one's self and property

Not in thailand where

1- They poison your dogs before entering.

2- Nobody in the area gives a toss if there's an alarm ringing.

3- If your walked to your door at gun point and made to open your house.

The police are coming to my house tomorrow to put the box up (as well as police visits throughout the day and night)

[jackr]

The police are coming to my house tomorrow to put the box up (as well as police visits throughout the day and night)

...that'll give 'em more chance to eye your place up then Not the most reliable 'finest' in the world, eh?? .

[davethailand]

These ones are ok.

[Pudgimelon]

Not in thailand where

1- They poison your dogs before entering.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Poison a dog inside the house before entering it? That'd be a neat trick.

I guess I'll have to remember than next time David Copperfield decides to rob my house.

Oh yeah, and another thing. A "poisoned dog" isn't going to be used by the criminal in any future robberies, is it? But a stolen gun will be..... hmmm.....

Not in thailand where

2- Nobody in the area gives a toss if there's an alarm ringing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True enough. Especially if you're a prick and your neighbor's hate you.

But then again, if you're not home, a gun in your house isn't going to protect it any better than an alarm, correct?

And if they break into your house, they aren't going to steal your alarm and use it to rob/kill other people, correct?

Not in thailand where

3- If your walked to your door at gun point and made to open your house.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, in that scenario, what good would a gun do you??

Is your name Chow Yung Fat or Jet Li??

Then how do you propose to disarm an assailant, pull your own gun, aim, and fire (ACCURATELY!!!!)??

Dream on little John Woo.

If you were made to walk to your door at gun point, then a gun is going to do JACK-S--T! They are STILL going to steal your money, your TV, and your DVD porn collection. But on top of that, they'll STEAL YOUR GUN!

32%, boys.

Remember that:

32%.

One-third of all stolen guns are picked right off the owner (dead or alive).

All you people who claim to be interested in "self-protection" (when in reality, you just want to be a tough-guy and need a gun to compensate for a lack of balls), you need to think seriously about that statistic.

In a direct confrontation with an assailant, one-third of the time, your "self-protection" is just going to arm another criminal. And that's not even considering the MORE LIKELY scenario of your gun being stolen out of your home while you're not there.

Self-protection? More like self-delusion.

[RamdomChances]

and your DVD porn collection

The ba5tards, I take it all back shoot them all..........twice

[Ice Treasure]

If or when I decide to live here permanently...I will indeed purchase a gun to protect my home.  This is Thailand.  Thugs and crackheads roam around inflicting harm without consequence.  This is the wild, wild East. This is gun country. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Must be a different Thailand from the one I live in then

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And me!

I think he's been watching too much TV.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

as in ThaiVisa or as in Television? Either would account for it.

[Ice Treasure]

Burglars, druggies and terrorists should not have to be tolerated with...period, and should all be destroyed!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ohh, that's what you want a gun for. There is a good reason you favor an offensive weapon over all the other options: These guys should be destroyed, and you are the one to judge. A very responsible attitude to gun ownership. It confirms all my assumptions about guncrazies, the aim is to kill, not to defend.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well it isan't as though members don't have experience as judge and jury

[davethailand]

Not in thailand where

1- They poison your dogs before entering.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Poison a dog inside the house before entering it? That'd be a neat trick.

I guess I'll have to remember than next time David Copperfield decides to rob my house.

Oh yeah, and another thing. A "poisoned dog" isn't going to be used by the criminal in any future robberies, is it? But a stolen gun will be..... hmmm.....

Not in thailand where

2- Nobody in the area gives a toss if there's an alarm ringing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True enough. Especially if you're a prick and your neighbor's hate you.

But then again, if you're not home, a gun in your house isn't going to protect it any better than an alarm, correct?

And if they break into your house, they aren't going to steal your alarm and use it to rob/kill other people, correct?

Not in thailand where

3- If your walked to your door at gun point and made to open your house.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, in that scenario, what good would a gun do you??

Is your name Chow Yung Fat or Jet Li??

Then how do you propose to disarm an assailant, pull your own gun, aim, and fire (ACCURATELY!!!!)??

Dream on little John Woo.

If you were made to walk to your door at gun point, then a gun is going to do JACK-S--T! They are STILL going to steal your money, your TV, and your DVD porn collection. But on top of that, they'll STEAL YOUR GUN!

32%, boys.

Remember that:

32%.

One-third of all stolen guns are picked right off the owner (dead or alive).

All you people who claim to be interested in "self-protection" (when in reality, you just want to be a tough-guy and need a gun to compensate for a lack of balls), you need to think seriously about that statistic.

In a direct confrontation with an assailant, one-third of the time, your "self-protection" is just going to arm another criminal. And that's not even considering the MORE LIKELY scenario of your gun being stolen out of your home while you're not there.

Self-protection? More like self-delusion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know why I'm wasting my precious time in answering you

Poison a dog inside the house before entering it?  That'd be a neat trick.

Most people with brains keep the dog outside when they want it to act as a deterent. Whats the point in getting a guard dog and locking it in the bloody house.

True enough.  Especially if you're a prick and your neighbor's hate you.

Is this from your own personal experience?

If your walked to your door at gun point and made to open your house.

This is why i'm making the wife carry spray, Also have one hidden by the door.

I chose to live in Thailand, I know about all the robbing that goes on, personally i'm not worried but my wife and step daughter are, I don't want a gun in the house, there are other methods of protection, sprays and stun guns.

Maybe i'll get robbed one day, Who knows? If a gun is pointed at my head then sure its a dodgy situation but believe me when i say if i get the chance i'll take their &lt;deleted&gt; eye out before they go.

My mate has an electric current running around the wall of his house 20000 volts, when it rain its cracks and sparkles, maybe i'll get one.

[siamruby]

Then he told us that he carries his gun with him around the HOUSE at all time. When he sits on the sofa watching TV the gun is alway alongside him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you say, "Paranoia?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I call it "experiences" Who are you or me to argue with a Thai who had experiences dealing with THAI crimes, THAI criminals, THAI criminal investigations and psychology of THAI criminals for 40 years? I use the word Thai in capital because that what we are talking about.. Thai criminals. Who are you? an expert in FARANG criminology? or are you a 20 something farang who has never experienced Thai crime in your life?

I once asked my brother why he carried gun all the time even when he was off duty. The answer " I may be off duty but the criminals are not and they carry their guns all the time if I don't carry my gun I might not be so lucky"

One of his "paranoia" experience is his young colleague, fresh from the cadet school,23yr old just started working only a few weeks. They went together to investigate some disturbance in a house. He did something that an experienced Thai police officer would have never done.....walked up to the front door unarmed and relaxed. He knocked and called the man out to talk to him standing right at the front door. Next minute he was shot dead, the guy inside shot him through the door as soon as he heard a police. Yes you tell my brother he is paranoia.

Anyway you have your own opinion and as a Thai I have mine so may be where you are from the crime rate is low,no one kill anyone and so on. Lucky you who live in such a world.

[jackr]

Anyway you have your own opinion and as a Thai I have mine so may be where you are from the crime rate is low,no one kill anyone and so on. Lucky you who live in such a world.

Nice one siamruby. I think Pudge is a septic (yank). Crime rate in US?????

[thaiflyer1]

Anyway you have your own opinion and as a Thai I have mine so may be where you are from the crime rate is low,no one kill anyone and so on. Lucky you who live in such a world.

Nice one siamruby. I think Pudge is a septic (yank). Crime rate in US?????

Well he keeps quoting U.S statistics, like i said at the start of this thread .....this is Thailand and not the States.

[Ajarn]

The police are coming to my house tomorrow to put the box up (as well as police visits throughout the day and night)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dave, you're referring to the 'red box', right? I've considered getting one myself. How much will you pay for the service? I've heard a figure of 500 baht per month, but when I pointedly ask the local cops for an 'average; figure, I only get 'Leew Tae' (up to you) as a response. They did say that they make 2 drive-bys per day, once in the mid-morning, once around 3 pm.. I assume the burglars know their schedule, too... What kind of schedule were you told?

[davethailand]

Yes we are getting the red box, Not sure how much but they will be patrolling at least ten times a day.

[Ajarn]

Yes we are getting the red box, Not sure how much but they will be patrolling at least ten times a day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd appreciate a figure when you know it, and I'd also like to hear your experience with them, like if they actually sign the book as often as promised....

Thanks

[davethailand]

No problem, Will do

[stroll]

Whatever people say about guns here. As a Thai I will stick to my big brother's wisdom and when we move to LOS, we will get a gun or two

 

Let me tell you about my brother, he took early retirement last year as a police officer, a police General in fact. When we went to LOS we stayed at his house. He told me that hence we got young children with us he is NOT CARRYING A GUN!  Then he told us that he carries his gun with him around the HOUSE at all time. When he sits on the sofa watching TV the gun is alway alongside him. I think I got the best advice regarding guns from the best person . And please don't get me wrong ,my brother is a really decent man and don't believe in killing anyone. He told me in all his career he has never killed anyone, shot them may be but never aimed to kill.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a retired policeman. And this shows how much trouble it is, if you want a gun to be an effective tool for selfdefense, carrying it needs to become second nature.

[Pudgimelon]

Who are you or me to argue with a Thai who had experiences dealing with THAI crimes, THAI criminals, THAI criminal investigations and psychology of THAI criminals for 40 years? I use the word Thai in capital because that what we are talking about.. Thai criminals. Who are you? an expert in FARANG criminology? or are you a 20 something farang  who has never experienced Thai crime in your life?

I quote US statistics because they are available and they are accurate. If you can find one single scrap of statistical data that contradicts ANYTHING I've said, I welcome you to try. But I highly doubt that such data exists in Thailand, and I think that it's unlikely that it would be significantly different from the data I got from the DoJ. Guns get stolen here in Thailand too, so it's a very good likelihood that weapons used in crimes are stolen weapons. And if that's the case, then that means that legal gun owners have unwittingly armed criminals.

Posting antecdotes about your big brother make for nice reading, but they do not count as FACT. Sorry, but that's just the way things work in the REAL world (and not your delusional John Woo world). Out here in the real world, if you want to prove someone wrong, you've got to come up with something more credible than, "My big brother says....". Sorry, that just doesn't cut it.

I've posted some very compelling data and EVIDENCE that guns are a piss-poor self defense tool. I've also stated explicitly in a number of posts that I am not "anti-gun" and that I believe guns are a fine hunting/sporting tool. Rather than offer up your own EVIDENCE that I am mistaken, you have resorted to antecdotal stories about your paranoid gun-toting big brother. Oh, and by the way, you're not going to impress anyone by telling people he's a cop. Given the level of professionalism and training in the Thai police force, his word isn't going to have a lot of credibility, especially if you intend to use it to contradict statistics from the US DoJ. Who's more credible? A paranoid old Thai police captain? Or The Justice Department's Bureau of Statistics?

Yes, I am fully and completely aware that "This is Thailand", but I am making the assertion that the statistics I quoted wouldn't be that different from Thai statistics (if they existed). True, that is my opinion, but if you're going to prove me wrong, you're going to need to come up with something better than simply saying, "You're wrong." That's just your opinion, and while you are welcome to it, it doesn't PROVE a ###### thing.

I would go so far as to say that your own stories about your paranoid big brother PROVE ME RIGHT. You see your big brother's irresponsible gun ownership as an endorsement of a gun's effectiveness, but I see it as a fitting indictment of the gun's complete ineffectiveness as a self-defense tool.

Just compare your big brother's behavior to a hypothetical neighbor who has just installed a razor wire fence on top of the brick wall surrounding his property. Who is safer? Who FEELS safer? The guy with the fence can just install it and forget about it. A gun owner can NEVER forget that there is a gun in the house. It is a CONSTANT danger to anybody on the premises (both friend and foe). Accidental gun deaths of children PROVE that fact. The guy with the fence can relax and watch TV. Your paranoid big brother STILL has to worry about someone walking up to his window and shooting him through it.

Your big brother choses to live in fear. And he needs a gun like a baby needs a pacifier.

He did something that an experienced Thai police officer would have never done.....walked up to the front door unarmed and relaxed. He knocked and called the man out to talk to him standing right at the front door. Next minute he was shot dead, the guy inside shot him through the door as soon as he heard a police. Yes you tell my brother he is paranoia.

Let me clue you in on something:

IF HE GOT SHOT THROUGH THE DOOR, THEN A GUN IN HIS HAND WOULD HAVE DONE NOTHING TO PROTECT HIM!!!!!

A kevlar vest? Yes.

A riot shield? Yes.

Some common sense police experience? Yes.

All those things would have PROTECTED him.

But a gun? Heck no. He might as well have been carrying a stick.

So yet again, your example proves my point. A gun in hand wouldn't have saved that police officer, whereas a brain in his head, might have.

Also, your story proves my point about the training and professionalism of the Thai police force, which adds more weight to my point that your big brother's opinions on gun-ownership simply aren't credible.

Who taught your big brother how to handle a gun? Somchai the motorcycle taxi driver?

Anyway you have your own opinion and as a Thai I have mine so may be where you are from the crime rate is low,no one kill anyone and so on. Lucky you who live in such a world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I live in Thailand, and I've never been a victim of crime here. Bangkok is a much safer city than some of the places I have lived. And I feel much safer here than I did in Miami or Washington, DC.

[jackr]

Who taught your big brother how to handle a gun?  Somchai the motorcycle taxi driver?

That was actually quite good for you, Pudg'

[thaiflyer1]

Yes we are getting the red box, Not sure how much but they will be patrolling at least ten times a day.

I'd appreciate a figure when you know it, and I'd also like to hear your experience with them, like if they actually sign the book as often as promised....

Thanks

Ive got the "red box" in (Pattaya) we come under Banglamung cop shop.......cost 1000 baht/month but i know someone who is charged 1500 on our village........yes they come round during the night and sign the book and the time of visit.....of course they could come round at 2am and sign in for 4am and 6am at the same time

[siamruby]

Well,Pudg. It s very well trying to insult my brother and my country just to annoy me. I can see you are one of these superior farangs who think we Thais can not think for ourself and we do need some expert like you to come and teach the Thai police force how to handle guns. I like the bit you said about the motorbike guy teaching my brother to use guns. Wonder if you ever set your foot in a Thai police station apart from being arrest for some drug offence may be? Oh and you know so well about how the Thai cadet police training college train their police students . Have you ever seen the front gate of the college I know you know better than us after all our expert are useless and never keep any data

May be living in the John Woo world is the real world in LOS. Can you read Thai and read Thai newsnaper? no I don't mean those farang newspaper like Bangkokpost or the Nation as you won't see all those insignificant news of rape, robbery, contact killing, assualt etc. all with guns. I suggest you go wonder around Thailand a bit to see if you can protect yourself without gun. An also you might be able to get the fact rather than figure you read from the books

Thanks for the comment over my brother's dead friend. Sadly,he can't get up and argue with a farang who suggested (from his comfy armchair and his highly experience dealing with yank criminals?) what he should have done in the situation. May be I thought the best way he should do is do like your people do. Your police will point the gun at the door and say come out now otherwise we will shoot. Or in your dream world your police should be standing from a distance and saying...mmm come out now sir if you don't we will.. break the door down? beat you up with a stick?.. throw a rock at you???

Ok so you think the world is a better place with no guns? Agree but what do we do now? disarm everyone? all the police and the army.And all the citizen that will be willing to be disarmed. So all the criminals will be only one who have guns?

the choice is Pudg....either you and the criminals got guns or you got no guns and they still got their guns.

Have guns only for sports? just to kill some defenceless animal just for fun? no not for me thanks.

Anyway, this is a website and statitic from our inferior police force and from me another of inferior Thai you happen to lower yourself to argue with. After all who am I to argue with you, I only have my average law degree and barrister of law degree but they are only from again some insignificant Thai university and the worst of all, I am only a Thai woman. That to remind you to try to be a bit of a gentleman not to swear. I can swear too you know? but we are discussing this as two adults not so childish that we need to swear or do name calling thing.( my paranoia brother) I know you annoy your opponent more by doing that but shall we leave that for the kids in the playground?

http://www.police.go.th/stat43.htm

[thaiflyer1]

Siamruby..........dont let him get to you, this guy obviously doesnt live in the real world......ive got no doubts he lives in a condo in Bangkok with security on the front door.....some of us dont .