Local Wood Varieties . .

[matte]

Nope, I´m not telling a story, I´m asking a question.

What kind of wood is this, and is it suitable for indoor use, either for making a new stair or for using as a floor.

[Somtham]

Very interesting subject!

Today "we" cut down a quite big old tree that my wife calls "Mai Gra-tawn".

Does anybody know what this might be? It seems like we are making a new stair for indoor use. Planks abt 2,5-3" thick and 15-20" wide.

I've been looking in this post but not found it.

We live in Sukhothai, maybe different lingo?

The English word is Santol and you can read about it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santol_(fruit)

I have no idea about it's termite resistance.

rgds

[matte]

Thanks a lot!

[technocracy]

Ahhhhhhhh mai mak tong (Lao) - Sandoricum koetjape (red fruit) or Sandoricum indicum (yellow fruit). The neighbour has a numerous of these tree - a wild mangosteen - very tasty albeit sour tasting fruit!

From the Global Forestry website:

Timber: Yields a lightweight to medium-weight hardwood with a density of 290-590 kg/m³ at 15% moisture content. Heartwood is pale red, yellowish-red or yellow-brown with a pink tinge, indistinct or distinguishable from the pale white or pinkish sapwood; grain straight or slightly wavy

Judging by the density it won't be termite resistant - considering say Mai Daeng that has a high termite resistant has a density of 875kg/m³ or Mai Doo which also has good termite resistance is around the 720-800kg/m³ mark.

Also since it's fresh cut you really need get it in a cool/hot room with low humidity to dry it to prevent it from splitting.

[Somtham]

Matte - we just planted 2 of these trees a few weeks ago as the wife and family like the fruit and I think it's a beautiful tree with the leaves turning red just before flowering. Curious, why did you cut it down?

rgds

[Goinghomesoon]

Simon, if those boards are 20cm wide then they were some old trees. The mai daeng we've cut and milled for our house was planted 30 years ago and the widest boards we are around 15cm. Then again we are in far north Isaan and the trees don't get a huge amount of water. Wide boards seem to hard to get, even from salvage jobs. Or maybe that's just our location, down your way it might be different. Old mai daeng makes spectacular flooring. The look of my in-laws mai-daeng floors after 25 years is amazing. Lots of bare feet have smoothed them down to a beautiful shiny dark red patina and the only care they've had is a daily sweeping and the occasional bucket of water thrown over them.

[wolfmanjack]

Nice looking guitars. i was with my wife buying a new guitar a few months ago and was thinking that making electric guitars would be fun to do but did not know where to get the hardware.

You mentioned the different woods make a nice sound in one of your posts. I thought the different wood would make a difference in acoustic guitars but did not think it would make any difference in an electric guitar. Can you please explain to me how this works ?

As for "yoke" i buy a lot of wood and have never heard this term. i always buy by the cf, cbm, or the sock.

I only wish i could get 8 inch diameter 4-6 meter long logs of old teak or Mai pradoo for 800 baht each let alone the 500-700 baht you get it for. I just paid 1300 baht for 5"x5" 2.5 meters long plantation teak.

[technocracy]

Nice looking guitars. i was with my wife buying a new guitar a few months ago and was thinking that making electric guitars would be fun to do but did not know where to get the hardware.

You mentioned the different woods make a nice sound in one of your posts. I thought the different wood would make a difference in acoustic guitars but did not think it would make any difference in an electric guitar. Can you please explain to me how this works ?

As for "yoke" i buy a lot of wood and have never heard this term. i always buy by the cf, cbm, or the sock.

I only wish i could get 8 inch diameter 4-6 meter long logs of old teak or Mai pradoo for 800 baht each let alone the 500-700 baht you get it for. I just paid 1300 baht for 5"x5" 2.5 meters long plantation teak.

Cheers for the compliment on the guitars . . Guitar 1 - is currently undergoing a refit! Basically the body looked nice on the design board but in reality it looks kind of 'wrong' . . mainly the bottom edge - I've looked at it many times and was never 100% happy with it. So the body has had a re-design and sculpting to be more in keeping with the other 2 models. The timber I've used is fantastic and cannot wait for it be finished! I'll let the pictures to tell the story on timber point - tomorrow it will be having it's final sanding and then oil finish applied. So watch this space on that one . ... or the website . . . sjeguitars.com

But anyway in terms of the sound of the wood in electric it's still very much affects the sound of the guitar - sure the pickups amplify the sound but the strings still have to vibrate to make the sound. So all the components you use slightly alter the 'tone' of the guitar.

Examples

Strats bodies are usually made from either Alder or Ash timber because they are bright sounding wood and combined with this they generally use a maple neck and fret boards which is also a bright wood - hence the Strats very twangy but not hugely resonant/sustaining sound. They then produce the strat with a rosewood fret board ala SRV - rosewood has a warmer and resonant tone hence it is often choosen by rock players to take the edge off the Strats tone.

Then on the other end of the scale you have the Les Paul - a mahogany body with a rose wood fretboard - the mahogany is denser so will sustain the note longer.

On the note of fretboards the one wood which you'll see being used for the vast majority of instruments is ebony - due to not only it's strength and resistance to wear but also it very bright and full tone (you'll never see a violin with a rosewood neck board!)

But yes the timber of even electric guitars plays a big part in their sound.

Edited February 4, 2009 by technocracy

[wolfmanjack]

Thanks for the info. How does teak work out for the guitars? Obviously not for the frets since it is too soft but for the rest ?

[technocracy]

Thanks for the info. How does teak work out for the guitars? Obviously not for the frets since it is too soft but for the rest ?

There is a reason why nobody makes teak guitars!

Well one of the main problem with Teak is the amount of oil in the timber and glueing it as precisely as required for guitar bodies isn't easy becase of the oil, I'd imagine the oil content would also dull the sound.

[wolfmanjack]

Thanks for the info. How does teak work out for the guitars? Obviously not for the frets since it is too soft but for the rest ?

There is a reason why nobody makes teak guitars!

Well one of the main problem with Teak is the amount of oil in the timber and glueing it as precisely as required for guitar bodies isn't easy becase of the oil, I'd imagine the oil content would also dull the sound.

i use weldwood resin glue and the only time i have had any problem gluing the plantation teak is when i burned it first to darken the color. This brought much of the oil to the surface and the glue would not hold as well. You probably have a good point about the oil muting the sound but since i have plenty of teak and I get it much cheaper than the nicer woods you are using I might practice using teak.

Do you know of anywhere in thailand I can get the necessary metal and electronic parts for the guitar?

[technocracy]

I am sure I reply to this?! Either been deleted or didn't post . . oh well.

The general gist of the lost message was that for basic kit you can often get them at the local guitar shops however if you want high quality brand names you need to either checkout the distributors for those brands in either Bangkok or Singapore or do as I do and import everything from the US.

You won't get things such as truss rods or mother of pearl inlay material in Thailand (or fret wire by the length for that matter or certain specialised tools such as fretboard radiusers) - there is far more bits than many people realise that go into making an electric guitar!

[wolfmanjack]

Thanks for letting me know. My wife plays the guitar and is teaching my kids. They are not the greatest of players yet so I do not want to spend the money on high end equipment. Some of the high end parts are pretty expensive according to what i have seen on the net. just basic cheapo parts will suit me fine for now.

[enkmd]

I went to the local timber yard in Phayao last week and was quoted the following prices :

Mai Daeng (per metre)

4x2 124bt

6x2 190bt

6x1 90bt

4x4 360bt

Mai Mersawat flooring (havent heard of this before)

8x1 110bt

They mentioned "sock" (according to the misses, from elbow to finger tip, about 500mm) but I asked for metre.

Not sure if locals would pay this much but its good enough for working out an estimate.

The guy said all the timber comes from Malaysia, not Thailand. This may explain why the timber here is so expensive.

Back in London timber is much more affordable, even teak is cheaper there, most of which I think comes from Myanmar.

[technocracy]

I went to the local timber yard in Phayao last week and was quoted the following prices :

Mai Daeng (per metre)

4x2 124bt

6x2 190bt

6x1 90bt

4x4 360bt

Mai Mersawat flooring (havent heard of this before)

8x1 110bt

They mentioned "sock" (according to the misses, from elbow to finger tip, about 500mm) but I asked for metre.

Not sure if locals would pay this much but its good enough for working out an estimate.

The guy said all the timber comes from Malaysia, not Thailand. This may explain why the timber here is so expensive.

Back in London timber is much more affordable, even teak is cheaper there, most of which I think comes from Myanmar.

Never in this world does all the timber come from Malaysia! The old saying of 'taking coals to Newcastle' springs to mind with that - also Mai Daeng is a species native to Thailand, Myanmar and Indochina opposed to Malaysia so I'd take that with a pinch of salt!

As promised for those interested here is the remodelled Mai Daeng guitar ...

A lovely figured and bookmatched piece of mai daeng . . . well as bookmatched as figured grain can be both parts have relatively unique grain - this was half of a 1 metre piece I bookmatch the other half is currently a body blank in my workshop the grain on that part is pretty wonderful also!

[jackr]

Some good reading there, well worthy of a bookmark, thanks guys. Nice guitars, technocracy.

[moneyshot]

Yeah great thread Technocracy!

Nice work on the guitars! Very impressive...

I need some cheap and light timber for knocking up a work bench and some sawhorses. I noticed you said pine isn't readily available in Thailand but what would be the best alternative and what would the Thai name be so I can ask the timber yard if they have any?

I was after some 30 x 100mm, 30 x 150mm and 50 x 100mm pieces or there abouts...

Cheers

[technocracy]

Yeah great thread Technocracy!

Nice work on the guitars! Very impressive...

I need some cheap and light timber for knocking up a work bench and some sawhorses. I noticed you said pine isn't readily available in Thailand but what would be the best alternative and what would the Thai name be so I can ask the timber yard if they have any?

I was after some 30 x 100mm, 30 x 150mm and 50 x 100mm pieces or there abouts...

Cheers

mai nhang would probably the best thing. Although this said there is quite a lot of cheaper types of hardwoods around their names escape me but if you not particular concerned about the timber just go and ask for the cheapest stuff! I visited Global House yesterday in Udon and saw they have plenty of decent quality chipboard (up 18mm) and only 215baht for a 2.4m x 1.2m sheet - so interms of a work bench and saw bench tops that'd do the job perfect since it's perfectly flat (and you won't get splinters from it!!).

There MDF stock was a little lacking however - didn't have anything over 10mm and didn't look particularly good quality.

[Goinghomesoon]

Great guitars. We bought beautiful old 'sralao' furniture in Cambodia, I think this is the same as 'tabek' in Thailand (lagerstroemia ovalifolia I am told). The Khmers used it in their houses in the old days, so it must be reasonably durable. Our furniture is polished up to a sheen and seems to hold the surface well. It has a dark brown tiger-stripe pattern through deep gold-coloured wood, it's really distinctive.

[WilliamCave]

Being a son of a joiner as well as a furniture and guitar maker myself I have quite a keen interest in the wood that is available here in Laos (same as Thailand).

After a while of just working and learning certain wood attributes I decided to use the internet and compile a 'comprehensive' list of commonly available timbers (some here aren't that common however!). Please correct my Lao to Thai if different.

Tree Latin Name: Pterocarpus indicus

Local Lao/Thai name: mai doo

Trade Name: Narra

Description: The local beauty wood used mainly for furniture, windows and doors but also used for instruments. An open grain with distinctive scent when working - relatively hard but termite resistant. Red-Orange in colour.

Tree Latin Name: Pterocarpus indicus

Local Lao/Thai name: mai doo fai

Trade Name: Rosewood

Description: Decorative and expensive wood mainly used for instruments and decorative items. Not available

Tree Latin Name: Xylia xylocarpa

Local Lao/Thai name: mai daeng

Trade Name: Pyinkado

Description: Even though a direct tranlation would work out as 'red wood' it isn't, neither is it rosewood. Pyinkado is actually the Burmese name trade name but it covers all wood in Lao and Thai. It is a VERY durable and tough wood which has twice the hardness of teak. Used for railway sleepers, piers and other sub-aqua purposes (15 years life untreated) also excellent flooring. With these properties it is also very heavy when green over 1000kg per Cu m also hard to work. Added to this it's a very decorative pinky red in colour.

Personally I am actually in the process of making a experimental guitar body with it - yes it's heavy but in theory it should have brillant resonance.

Tree Latin Name: Hopea Odorata

Local Lao/Thai name: Some people will call it mai khaen and others mai khaen hua

Trade name: Ceylon/Malabar Ironwood

Description: Malabar Ironwood - pretty much goes by it's name strong but light and durable timber resistant to termites (regardless of what the shops will tell you!). Used to make windows, doors, furniture, boats and roofing struts - well it's actually used for basically anything and everything. Sold in Laos as a 'cheap' alternative to mai doo. Easy to work particularly when green. Quite a bizarre wood when it comes to colour - fresh cut and keep out of sunlight it is a white wood, once exposed to sun it changes to a dark orange colour similar to mai doo.

A very good all-round wood however the lack of seasoning done over here ruins the potential of the wood. People think it's a weak or inferior wood due to working on when it hasn't been seasoned then when it shrinks and cracks due to being held in place they blame the timber!

Personally I've used it for decking supports, made hand rails from it and few bedside tables.

Tree Latin Name: Hopea ferrea

Local Lao/Thai name: mai khaen hin (don't confuse for cheaper Khaen Hua)

Trade name: Heavy Hopea (also Giam)

Description: One of my favourite timbers here but not as readily available was mai khaen. This very similar in attributes to Pyinkado, very heavy (1000+kg Cu M) and very strong. The best time to work this wood is when green when dried it is like cutting granite - even more so than pyinkado, jigsaw blades will bend - circular saws is the way. If you want strong arms then handsawing is the way to go! Unlike mai khaen it has very little shrinkage and cracking so working it when green is possible. As with pyinkado it's water and termite resistant. In terms of colour when cut it's a wonderful white colour with a yellow tinge. Used as a decking with rain it will turn a pale grey. Oh and it's resistant to staining . . i.e. it will just wash off in the rain as the wood is so dense the stain doesn't penetrate.

Personally I've used it for the main decking beams (10cm x 10cm) and used it was the decking panels.

As I noted above don't confuse this for the cheaper and lesser khaen hua the only real way of telling is by it's colour and if you have to identical size pieces khaen hin is heavier.

Tree Latin Name: Dipterocarpus alatus

Local Lao/Thai name: mai nhang

No trade name

Description: The stuff you don't want your house to be from - termites love it! Mainly used in as building materials and shuttering when moulding concrete pillar and beams etc. Due to being termites favourite food it's avoided for most things.

Tree Latin Name: Dalbergia cochinchinensis

Local Lao/Thai name: Mai Kha Nhoung

Trade name: Siam Rosewood

Description: As Rosewood above - there is numerous varities of rosewood the only difference between them is the colour of the wood.

Last and in no means least .. ..

Tree Latin Name: Tectona grandis

Local Lao/Thai name: Mai Sak

Trade name: Teak

Description: Well teak is teak! Pretty much everyone is aware of the qualities of teak, it's oily nature and use on boat decks.

Anyone for anymore? What have you been offered in your local timber yards? Let me know . .

very impresed with your knoledge will be contacting u in the future for advise and information on wood for my flooring,,,best explanation thanks a bundle...someone who actually knows

[moneyshot]

Yeah great thread Technocracy!

Nice work on the guitars! Very impressive...

I need some cheap and light timber for knocking up a work bench and some sawhorses. I noticed you said pine isn't readily available in Thailand but what would be the best alternative and what would the Thai name be so I can ask the timber yard if they have any?

I was after some 30 x 100mm, 30 x 150mm and 50 x 100mm pieces or there abouts...

Cheers

mai nhang would probably the best thing. Although this said there is quite a lot of cheaper types of hardwoods around their names escape me but if you not particular concerned about the timber just go and ask for the cheapest stuff! I visited Global House yesterday in Udon and saw they have plenty of decent quality chipboard (up 18mm) and only 215baht for a 2.4m x 1.2m sheet - so interms of a work bench and saw bench tops that'd do the job perfect since it's perfectly flat (and you won't get splinters from it!!).

There MDF stock was a little lacking however - didn't have anything over 10mm and didn't look particularly good quality.

Thanks!

[buffaloe]

tecknocracy,got a question.do you sell your guitars and if you do for how much

[dotcom]

Mai sisiet nua = Akazie (Acacia catechu)

Mai makha = Monkey Pod Tree (Afzelia xylocarpa)

.................... etc.

In terms of having better properties than Teak . . . well it depends on what it will be used for since Teak isn't a hugely strong or dense timber however it's water resistant qualities are second to none.

I recently had a dresser made of Mai Makkaw.

It's also stronger than Teak, absolutely beautiful grain & bug free.

From Wikipedia:

Afzelia xylocarpa is a tree from Southeast Asia. It grows in Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Burma in deciduous forests. It can reach 30 meters tall with a trunk up to 2 meters in diameter in a mature specimen. The tree is known as "beng" in Cambodia and Makha in Thailand. An alternative Latin name is Pahudia cochinchinensis.

The seeds are harvested for medicinal purposes. The seed pulp can be used to make cigarettes and the bark and seed are used for herbal medicine. The highly-figured lumber is often sold as Afzelia Xylay. The wood is used for ornamental woodturning, pens, knife handles, carvings, and musical instruments.

wiki

P.S. the cost was 1/2 what I saw "Golden Teak" at Seri Center (Mai Saat Tong).

Edited March 24, 2009 by dotcom

[GungaDin]

Dotcom.

How about a few pics?

[Goinghomesoon]

Interesting Dotcom. I was always under the impression Khmer 'beng' and teak were one and the same. When we lived in Cambodia it was always translated that way. We have a big old wooden storage chest made of it and it is really beautiful. Bloody heavy to move though.

[technocracy]

tecknocracy,got a question.do you sell your guitars and if you do for how much

You have a PM!

Cheers for the compliements people . . . ain't looked on this thread for while been busy busy . . here's a quick pic of a in progress build.

With it first coat of oil . .

Mai daeng (Burmese Ironwood) wings with accents stripes of Mai Khampii (Laos Rosewood) and Mai Tha kha (Afzelia Xylee). The neck is Afzelia with a Laos Rosewood fretboard . .. . of which I don't have any current pics.

Here's a couple of further appetizers:

Figure Afzelia Xylee (mai tha kha laai) currently being turned into an 8 string guitar which currently looks like this:

That fret board is some more lovely b&w ebony:

The neck is figured Siam rosewood:

Check out the wild figuring on the back of the neck:

The 8 string parts have just been prepared I am waiting on a few deliveries of parts to continue with it.

Oh yes forgot add Afzelia Xylee is far stronger than teak and denser - however teak has the high oil content so it'll always be far superior to basically any other timbers for use where the timber has water exposure. Personally I aren't a really fan of the teak furniture but that just a personal thing - I think the grain and colour are a little plain.

Edited April 4, 2009 by technocracy

[GungaDin]

Beautiful work!

Tech, if I asked my local chippy to make me a 4 shelf, simple, TV stand,

which very dark wood would you suggest?

No teak thanks.

cheers

gd

[Beardog]

Techno

Those are some of the most beautiful guitars I have ever seen. You are a true craftsman & I bet by the looks or the axes you can play a mean guitar!!!! That would look awesome in a Bass option as well!

[technocracy]

Techno

Those are some of the most beautiful guitars I have ever seen. You are a true craftsman & I bet by the looks or the axes you can play a mean guitar!!!! That would look awesome in a Bass option as well!

Thanks!

Here is a few updates. . .

Then the 8 string is still on hold due to custom parts being delayed but currently looks like this:

And I started a new very special project - a 2 piece guitar with a solid Afzelia body (albeit missing the tailcut):

with an ultra beautiful single piece Amboyna burl top:

The fret boards in the top two is Mai Khampii aka Laos Rosewood/Burmese Blackwood aka Dalbergia Cultrata - really is a beautiful looking rosewood.

Basses are perfectly do able . . 4,5 or 6 string! (sorry to be a self advertising whore . . . mods feel free to delete if I over step the line)

But your question . . yep Mai Daeng is a great outdoors wood and one which will last pretty much indefinately.

[Beardog]

Techno

Those are some of the most beautiful guitars I have ever seen. You are a true craftsman & I bet by the looks or the axes you can play a mean guitar!!!! That would look awesome in a Bass option as well!

Thanks!

Here is a few updates. . .

Then the 8 string is still on hold due to custom parts being delayed but currently looks like this:

And I started a new very special project - a 2 piece guitar with a solid Afzelia body (albeit missing the tailcut):

with an ultra beautiful single piece Amboyna burl top:

The fret boards in the top two is Mai Khampii aka Laos Rosewood/Burmese Blackwood aka Dalbergia Cultrata - really is a beautiful looking rosewood.

Basses are perfectly do able . . 4,5 or 6 string! (sorry to be a self advertising whore . . . mods feel free to delete if I over step the line)

But your question . . yep Mai Daeng is a great outdoors wood and one which will last pretty much indefinately.

That is some awesome looking burl wood. I have not seen to many guitars with a burl with eyes like that. I bet you can make that guitar really belt out some sound.

I wish I was a Primus 6 string kind of bass player!!!!!