Enough With The Grammar Lessons

[tomahawk]

I am fairly new at this forum business so maybe this is a common phenomena, but what is the obsession here with the English grammar and spelling lessons? I saw this one topic about where to get good coffee so I clicked it and there was like 2 postings about coffee and the next 87 or so were about people's spelling errors and grammar and such. By the time I was finished reading all this crap, not only did I not know where to get good coffee, but I no longer wanted coffee at all, and by now needed a pint of vodka or maybe some valium. Then just to see if it was maybe coffee drinkers who were all anal retentive, I read some other random topics and it was more of the same. I mean this is n ot even an English speaking country. Is it because there are so many English teachers here that there is this obsession? There is apparently a murder contract out on me now because I failed to leave a space after the period in a sentence.

If I really wish to learn to improve my grammar I will go back to school. I bet there are other people who feel the same way. Does it make people feel superior to correct someone elses grammatical error? Do these people just sit home in front of their computer looking for mistakes so they can say,'Look how smart I am. This other idiot didn't know enough to put a semi-colon in that sentence.Now I have humiliated the idiot and at the same time showed the world my superior intellect.Hooray for me!"

And just to give these people something to live for I will make sure to make as many speling and grammerical errers as posibul from now onn.

[Steve2UK]

[Dustoff]

Oh goodie, another crab about people who crab..

And how is this about Thailand? I never much liked your granma but I held my tongue...

[dingdongrb]

Oh goodie, another crab about people who crab..

And how is this about Thailand? I never much liked your granma but I held my tongue...

......psssst... (no doubt one of them teachers the OP is referring to)

[elkangorito]

I couldn't help myself...I simply had to reply.

As far as I'm concerned, I am fed up with so called "native English speakers" who can't put together a sentence. There are simply too many of these people. Sometimes, I have to read a post 6 times before I "feel" that I have understood it. In many cases, the foreigners (not native English speakers) have a far better understanding of grammar & operate accordingly. My Thai colleagues are much better at technical grammar than I.

The worst offenders are, in my order of preference;

1] Americans.

2] British.

3] Australian.

For some people, the use of "then" & "than" is nonconsequential but can change the whole meaning of a sentence, thus rendering it (the sentence) less understandable. "I should've done <xyz> then the other" when really it should be "I should've done <xyz> than the other". Both cases can be correct but the meaning is different depending upon whether "then" or "than" is used. In many cases, the wrong word is used.

Other things are to do with colloquial terms such as, "I couldn't care less" (British) as opposed to the "I could care less" (American). Both terms apparently mean the same thing.

If you use TV regularly, you may begin to appreciate the need for correct English as you may end up being one of "us" who rebukes poor English, particularly from so called native English speakers.

If I wanted to, I could provide hundreds of links to TV topics where the English is so bad, you would be scratching your arse for a week just trying to figure out what certain people were trying to say.

Edited July 27, 2008 by elkangorito

[Briggsy]

If I wanted to, I could provide hundreds of links to TV topics where the English is so bad, you would be scratching your arse for a week just trying to figure out what certain people were trying to say.

These would links to the Nation, I suspect.

[Flatouthruthefog]

I couldn't help myself...I simply had to reply.

As far as I'm concerned, I am fed up with so called "native English speakers" who can't put together a sentence. There are simply too many of these people. Sometimes, I have to read a post 6 times before I "feel" that I have understood it. In many cases, the foreigners (not native English speakers) have a far better understanding of grammar & operate accordingly. My Thai colleagues are much better at technical grammar than I.

The worst offenders are, in my order of preference;

1] Americans.

2] British.

3] Australian.

For some people, the use of "then" & "than" is nonconsequential but can change the whole meaning of a sentence, thus rendering it (the sentence) less understandable. "I should've done <xyz> then the other" when really it should be "I should've done <xyz> than the other". Both cases can be correct but the meaning is different depending upon whether "then" or "than" is used. In many cases, the wrong word is used.

Other things are to do with colloquial terms such as, "I couldn't care less" (British) as opposed to the "I could care less" (American). Both terms apparently mean the same thing.

If you use TV regularly, you may begin to appreciate the need for correct English as you may end up being one of "us" who rebukes poor English, particularly from so called native English speakers.

If I wanted to, I could provide hundreds of links to TV topics where the English is so bad, you would be scratching your arse for a week just trying to figure out what certain people were trying to say.

Just LOVE your avatar!!!

But shouldn't that read: ".........one of WE who REBUKE poor English......", or have I just fallen into your clever trap?

Cunning stunts!

[elkangorito]

If I wanted to, I could provide hundreds of links to TV topics where the English is so bad, you would be scratching your arse for a week just trying to figure out what certain people were trying to say.

These would links to the Nation, I suspect.

"These would [be] links to the Nation, I suspect."

OR

"These would link to the Nation, I suspect."

Which is it?

Just LOVE your avatar!!!

But shouldn't that read: ".........one of WE who REBUKE poor English......", or have I just fallen into your clever trap?

Cunning stunts!

It could read many things but AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!

BTW, are you a cunning stunt?

[JOHN2]

I am fairly new at this forum business so maybe this is a common phenomena, but what is the obsession here with the English grammar and spelling lessons? I saw this one topic about where to get good coffee so I clicked it and there was like 2 postings about coffee and the next 87 or so were about people's spelling errors and grammar and such. By the time I was finished reading all this crap, not only did I not know where to get good coffee, but I no longer wanted coffee at all, and by now needed a pint of vodka or maybe some valium. Then just to see if it was maybe coffee drinkers who were all anal retentive, I read some other random topics and it was more of the same. I mean this is n ot even an English speaking country. Is it because there are so many English teachers here that there is this obsession? There is apparently a murder contract out on me now because I failed to leave a space after the period in a sentence.

If I really wish to learn to improve my grammar I will go back to school. I bet there are other people who feel the same way. Does it make people feel superior to correct someone elses grammatical error? Do these people just sit home in front of their computer looking for mistakes so they can say,'Look how smart I am. This other idiot didn't know enough to put a semi-colon in that sentence.Now I have humiliated the idiot and at the same time showed the world my superior intellect.Hooray for me!"

And just to give these people something to live for I will make sure to make as many speling and grammerical errers as posibul from now onn.

Calm down you will give yourself a stroke.

And i have to say there was a couple of errors in your post.

B-

[PeaceBlondie]

We English teachers cringe the most. Oddly enough, correcting a person's English in their posts is generally forbidden on the Teaching in Thailand Forum, unless the poster is hypocritically making mistakes whilst correcting another poster.

The OP makes some good points, and his grammar and spelling are fairly good. He exaggerates enough to earn himself a Texas driver's license.

[elkangorito]

I am fairly new at this forum business so maybe this is a common phenomena, but what is the obsession here with the English grammar and spelling lessons? I saw.........

Calm down or you may give yourself a stroke.

And I have to say that there were a couple of errors in your post.

B-

Oops.

Edited July 27, 2008 by elkangorito

[Steve2UK]

We English teachers cringe the most. Oddly enough, correcting a person's English in their posts is generally forbidden on the Teaching in Thailand Forum, unless the poster is hypocritically making mistakes whilst correcting another poster.

The OP makes some good points, and his grammar and spelling are fairly good. He exaggerates enough to earn himself a Texas driver's license.

PB, I trust I am not betraying too much of a confidence to remind you publicly that you are not an English teacher - you are an American teacher of English.

Tsk tsk - take a demerit.

[elkangorito]

LOL

BTW, the only country in the world to speak English unilaterally (without a discernible accent difference) is Australia

Another edit.

This is why my college prefers Australians....the accent is about the same no matter from where they come.

Edited July 27, 2008 by elkangorito

[Steve2UK]

LOL

BTW, the only country in the world to speak English unilaterally (without a discernible accent difference) is Australia

Another edit.

This is why my college prefers Australians....the accent is about the same no matter from where they come.

Oh, EG, you could have said "no matter where they come from". You're amongst friends here.

[jetjock]

The worst offenders are, in my order of preference;

1] Americans.

2] British.

3] Australian.

(edited for brevity by jj)

It would be interesting to see how you ascertained the order of offenders since many people in their profile do not list their native country and whether they use British or American spelling of certain words does not always indicate their true country of origin. I read this forum quite a bit and would have no idea who are the worst offenders but then again, if in doubt, I guess it is always easier to just blame the Americans (which is OK with me as I can take it ! ).

I agree with the OP because TV forum is IMHO best served as a forum of content and not of spelling and grammar. Since I am only cunnilingual and many of the members are bilingual and trilingual, I quite admire their expertise in witing English, even if not perfect, since in many cases it is it is not their native tongue.

[PeaceBlondie]

Oh dear, Steve2UK has violated a personal trust amongst us or betwixt us, and revealed that I am neither from Ipswich nor from southwestern East Sussex. Alas and alack, I confess to being an American teacher of universal inter-galactic English.

[lardy]

LOL

BTW, the only country in the world to speak English unilaterally (without a discernible accent difference) is Australia

Another edit.

This is why my college prefers Australians....the accent is about the same no matter from where they come.

Criminal!! hahahahahaha, speaking as a Pom that is.

[elkangorito]

The worst offenders are, in my order of preference;

1] Americans.

2] British.

3] Australian.

(edited for brevity by jj)

It would be interesting to see how you ascertained the order of offenders since many people in their profile do not list their native country and whether they use British or American spelling of certain words does not always indicate their true country of origin. I read this forum quite a bit and would have no idea who are the worst offenders but then again, if in doubt, I guess it is always easier to just blame the Americans (which is OK with me as I can take it ! ).

I agree with the OP because TV forum is IMHO best served as a forum of content and not of spelling and grammar. Since I am only cunnilingual and many of the members are bilingual and trilingual, I quite admire their expertise in witing English, even if not perfect, since in many cases it is it is not their native tongue.

Obviously, being a yank, you are familiar with BOHICA...are you not?

Anyway, most non native English speakers who use this forum, make a grand effort with their English.

I can generally tell the origin of a poster by their use of English (native speakers only) & not by what their profile says.

Since you are concerned about content, how can you understand some of the posts? Let's face it, "content" is all about meaning & if the meaning is lost due to pathetic language skills, why bother posting in the first place (native English speakers only).

Thai English speakers have easily recognised faults & are thus more easily understood than some so called native English speakers.

I forget who they are now but there are a couple of people who use this forum & who type posts without punctuation or capitals. This makes their post almost unintelligible.

A couple of other posters insist upon writing posts like poetry...the same result as above.

I can deal with "Tinglish" (Thai/English) all day but I can't deal with supposed native English speakers, who can't even construct a sentence correctly.

[lardy]

It would be good for people to remember that some people just aren't good at languages at all. I myself used to know English quite well but for some reason now I don't know what a verb or a noun is its all just sailed out of my mind. I don't know why this has happened as I'm only in my early 40's.

I don't like the text speak prevalent on some forums mind M8!!

[Maigo6]

I bet there are other people who feel the same way. Does it make people feel superior to correct someone elses grammatical error?

Tomahawk, I think the Vodka and Valium are your best bet.

[elkangorito]

It would be good for people to remember that some people just aren't good at languages at all. I myself used to know English quite well but for some reason now I don't know what a verb or a noun is its all just sailed out of my mind. I don't know why this has happened as I'm only in my early 40's.

I don't like the text speak prevalent on some forums mind M8!!

Stop worrying. You are easily understood & you grammar is ok.

[jetjock]

The worst offenders are, in my order of preference;

1] Americans.

2] British.

3] Australian.

(edited for brevity by jj)

It would be interesting to see how you ascertained the order of offenders since many people in their profile do not list their native country and whether they use British or American spelling of certain words does not always indicate their true country of origin. I read this forum quite a bit and would have no idea who are the worst offenders but then again, if in doubt, I guess it is always easier to just blame the Americans (which is OK with me as I can take it ! ).

I agree with the OP because TV forum is IMHO best served as a forum of content and not of spelling and grammar. Since I am only cunnilingual and many of the members are bilingual and trilingual, I quite admire their expertise in witing English, even if not perfect, since in many cases it is it is not their native tongue.

Obviously, being a yank, you are familiar with BOHICA...are you not?Anyway, most non native English speakers who use this forum, make a grand effort with their English.

I can generally tell the origin of a poster by their use of English (native speakers only) & not by what their profile says.

Since you are concerned about content, how can you understand some of the posts? Let's face it, "content" is all about meaning & if the meaning is lost due to pathetic language skills, why bother posting in the first place (native English speakers only).

Thai English speakers have easily recognised faults & are thus more easily understood than some so called native English speakers.

I forget who they are now but there are a couple of people who use this forum & who type posts without punctuation or capitals. This makes their post almost unintelligible.

A couple of other posters insist upon writing posts like poetry...the same result as above.

I can deal with "Tinglish" (Thai/English) all day but I can't deal with supposed native English speakers, who can't even construct a sentence correctly.

I guess I am not that hip and admit that I was not familiar with BOHICA so had to google it. Thanks for the info as I now know a shortcut for 'Bend Over, Here It Comes Again' which is unfortunately a thought that is all too common in the world today.

Edited July 27, 2008 by jetjock

[elkangorito]

The worst offenders are, in my order of preference;

1] Americans.

2] British.

3] Australian.

(edited for brevity by jj)

It would be interesting to see how you ascertained the order of offenders since many people in their profile do not list their native country and whether they use British or American spelling of certain words does not always indicate their true country of origin. I read this forum quite a bit and would have no idea who are the worst offenders but then again, if in doubt, I guess it is always easier to just blame the Americans (which is OK with me as I can take it ! ).

I agree with the OP because TV forum is IMHO best served as a forum of content and not of spelling and grammar. Since I am only cunnilingual and many of the members are bilingual and trilingual, I quite admire their expertise in witing English, even if not perfect, since in many cases it is it is not their native tongue.

Obviously, being a yank, you are familiar with BOHICA...are you not?Anyway, most non native English speakers who use this forum, make a grand effort with their English.

I can generally tell the origin of a poster by their use of English (native speakers only) & not by what their profile says.

Since you are concerned about content, how can you understand some of the posts? Let's face it, "content" is all about meaning & if the meaning is lost due to pathetic language skills, why bother posting in the first place (native English speakers only).

Thai English speakers have easily recognised faults & are thus more easily understood than some so called native English speakers.

I forget who they are now but there are a couple of people who use this forum & who type posts without punctuation or capitals. This makes their post almost unintelligible.

A couple of other posters insist upon writing posts like poetry...the same result as above.

I can deal with "Tinglish" (Thai/English) all day but I can't deal with supposed native English speakers, who can't even construct a sentence correctly.

I guess I am not that hip and admit that I was not familiar with BOHICA so had to google it. Thanks for the info as I now know a shortcut for 'Bend Over, Here It Comes Again' which is unfortunately a thought that is all too common in the world today.

You've got a bloody good sense of humour. Cheers mate

[qwertz]

Most people write English better than they speak it; there's less room for misunderstanding too.

As a translator I have to know all the rules of English - and use them - but I only go after the grammar

police and pedants on this forum.

I have nothing but respect for all others, regardless of their nationality and ability, and wish here to

express my sincere thanks to all who those contribute their useful input.

I have no trouble understanding, even when the English is a little different from mine.

[tomahawk]

Now someone is actually trying to say Australians somehow speak the best English, or have the same accent everywhere,or some such thing. I suppose this may be true as no matter what part of Australia they come from, no one else can understand a word they are saying.Mate. I see the guy with this theory has a name resembling kangaroo, so that probably explains their opinion. No matter, just put some shrimp on a barbie and digeree doo some vegemee with a wallaby or whatever. Yes one should definitely go to Australia to learn perfect English. I actually think this whole grammar thing is pretty funny. Also,the valium thing was actually a joke but I think too many people took it seriously, perhaps because there may have been a punctuation error or some such thing.I t is not surprising,as I recall from my school days that English teachers I have known were not renowned for their sense of humor and are often what some people might call nerds. Also, as far as this topic having nothing to do with Thailand, this is not the first posting I have read here that has nothing to do with Thailand. But ti does have something to do with this forum.

Anyway i am soree ifn i havt ofented anybody.

[elkangorito]

Now someone is actually trying to say Australians somehow speak the best English, or have the same accent everywhere,or some such thing. I suppose this may be true as no matter what part of Australia they come from, no one else can understand a word they are saying.Mate. I see the guy with this theory has a name resembling kangaroo, so that probably explains their opinion. No matter, just put some shrimp on a barbie and digeree doo some vegemee with a wallaby or whatever. Yes one should definitely go to Australia to learn perfect English. I actually think this whole grammar thing is pretty funny. Also,the valium thing was actually a joke but I think too many people took it seriously, perhaps because there may have been a punctuation error or some such thing.I t is not surprising,as I recall from my school days that English teachers I have known were not renowned for their sense of humor and are often what some people might call nerds. Also, as far as this topic having nothing to do with Thailand, this is not the first posting I have read here that has nothing to do with Thailand. But ti does have something to do with this forum.

Anyway i am soree ifn i havt ofented anybody.

Your post was nothing short of hilarious, although I did have to read it twice to make sure that I understood it.

As far as not being concerned "directly" with Thailand, I would suggest that Thai people at least attempt to make themselves understood & not just hit keys on a keyboard. There are few Thai people that are respondents to this forum (I can't wonder why) but those brave enough pay much more attention to their English than many other "NATIVE" speakers here.

[ade100]

I rarely correct people’s grammar because they don’t like it, it’s not polite and I make millions of errors when I speak my second language. Also there are some fights I have just given up on. The other day on the BBC I heard a professor from Oxford University saying “There are less plants in this desert than there used to be”. If university professors from Oxford can’t get it right, what hope is there for the rest of the Anglophone world?

Even at work it is becoming common to see emails containing phrases like “ coz he dun wan do that”. I just go and quietly scream into a pillow and come back to my desk, calm and ready to continue. But frankly if I received a CV, covering letter or project proposal containing that sort of language use, it wouldn’t win me over.

[JetsetBkk]

The worst offenders are, in my order of preference;

1] Americans.

2] British.

3] Australian.

(edited for brevity by jj)

It would be interesting to see how you ascertained the order of offenders since many people in their profile do not list their native country and whether they use British or American spelling of certain words does not always indicate their true country of origin. I read this forum quite a bit and would have no idea who are the worst offenders but then again, if in doubt, I guess it is always easier to just blame the Americans (which is OK with me as I can take it ! ).

I agree with the OP because TV forum is IMHO best served as a forum of content and not of spelling and grammar. Since I am only cunnilingual and many of the members are bilingual and trilingual, I quite admire their expertise in witing English, even if not perfect, since in many cases it is it is not their native tongue.

Obviously, being a yank, you are familiar with BOHICA...are you not?Anyway, most non native English speakers who use this forum, make a grand effort with their English.

I can generally tell the origin of a poster by their use of English (native speakers only) & not by what their profile says.

Since you are concerned about content, how can you understand some of the posts? Let's face it, "content" is all about meaning & if the meaning is lost due to pathetic language skills, why bother posting in the first place (native English speakers only).

Thai English speakers have easily recognised faults & are thus more easily understood than some so called native English speakers.

I forget who they are now but there are a couple of people who use this forum & who type posts without punctuation or capitals. This makes their post almost unintelligible.

A couple of other posters insist upon writing posts like poetry...the same result as above.

I can deal with "Tinglish" (Thai/English) all day but I can't deal with supposed native English speakers, who can't even construct a sentence correctly.

I guess I am not that hip and admit that I was not familiar with BOHICA so had to google it. Thanks for the info as I now know a shortcut for 'Bend Over, Here It Comes Again' ...

It's not a shortcut - it's an acronym. Tut, tut.

[Priceless]

If the thread about good coffee that the OP had read was in the Chiang Mai forum, I may have been one of the grammar correcting culprits. In that case, I'd like to apologize but point out that the hailstorm of grammar-related post was actually a bit of joking between friends.

However, I think that many of the native English speakers on the forum don't realize the problems that non-native speakers sometimes have deciphering some posts, due to their bad grammar. For a native speaker it maybe obvious what the poster means when s/he e.g. uses "they're", "their" and "there" interchangeably, as if they were synonyms, but for somebody struggling with English it may be enough to make them give up

/ Priceless

[elkangorito]

If the thread about good coffee that the OP had read was in the Chiang Mai forum, I may have been one of the grammar correcting culprits. In that case, I'd like to apologize but point out that the hailstorm of grammar-related post was actually a bit of joking between friends.

However, I think that many of the native English speakers on the forum don't realize the problems that non-native speakers sometimes have deciphering some posts, due to their bad grammar. For a native speaker it maybe obvious what the poster means when s/he e.g. uses "they're", "their" and "there" interchangeably, as if they were synonyms, but for somebody struggling with English it may be enough to make them give up

/ Priceless

Dear oh dear! My corrections/suggestions in blue.

Let's start again;

If the thread is about good coffee & the OP, who had read this [the post] was in the Chiang Mai forum, I may have been one of the grammar correcting culprits.

Did I make this sentence understandable or not? Is this what you meant?

In that case, I'd like to apologize but and also point out that the hailstorm of grammar-related posts was were actually a bit of joking between friends.

However, I think that many of the native English speakers on the forum don't realize the problems that non-native speakers sometimes have deciphering some posts, due to their bad grammar. For a native speaker it maybe obvious what the poster means when s/he e.g. uses "they're", "their" and "there" interchangeably, as if they were synonyms, but for somebody struggling with English it may be enough to make them give up.

Apart from the hiccups in your first paragraph, I found your post quite intelligible. Did I understand your first paragraph correctly? I'm not kidding. I had trouble understanding your meaning in the first paragraph & I think that guessing is dangerous. Did I guess correctly?