Why Are Their So Many Ladyboys In Thailand ?

[farang prince]

Topics about Thai ladyboys surface in Thai Visa about once every three months. And while all of our straight members regularly post their thoughts about this "disgusting" group of people in Thailand (there are about 250,000 of these "disgusting" human beings), the threads about ladyboys are always among the most read and commented on of any TV subject. So why are all you straight members so fascinated by ladyboys?

[ozsamurai]

I wonder how keen The Dons senses would be... ones a girl ones a boy....

I wonder how keen The Dons senses would be... ones a girl ones a boy....

Easy,

First pic is lady second is TG.

Is the Don staying out of this comp??

Oz

[sylviex]

In today's New Science newsletter:

'Transsexuality gene' makes women feel like men

• 16:13 29 July 2008
  

A gene variant has been identified that appears to be associated with female-to-male transsexuality – the feeling some women have that they belong to the opposite sex.While such complex behaviour is likely the result of multiple genes, environmental and cultural factors, the researchers say the discovery suggests that transsexuality does have a genetic component.

newscientist.com/article/dn14424?DCMP=NLC-nletter&nsref=dn14424

I'd not be surprised if genes were one factor. Others might be hormones in utero during pregnancy, hormones in food & water, cultural norms and many more.

Sometimes I have wondered if these men are rejecting the Thai male gender role. However, as some of you have said, they know very early in life, so that theory might seem unlikely.

The cultural aspect must be important. India has a similar, traditional place for transgendered people.

Edited July 31, 2008 by sylviex

[Jingthing]

The cultural aspect must be important. India has a similar, traditional place for transgendered people.

As do many other cultures, including native American Indians when they had their traditional culture (called berdache).

It is more visible in cultures where society has made a role for this human variation. In a place like Iran, they have to hide in their rooms until they can get surgery and become official anatomically correct women.

Trannies are everywhere, its just you can't always see them. In Thailand, you can see them.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Jingthing

[sylviex]

The cultural aspect must be important. India has a similar, traditional place for transgendered people.

As do many other cultures, including native American Indians when they had their traditional culture (called berdache).

True. (I was thinking of the cultural links between Thailand & India).

I absolutely agree that sexuality is a spectrum, by the way.

[Robski]

I can't be bothered to read the whole thread, but in answer to the original question;

I believe it's the hormones that they pump into all the chicken that gets eaten in Thailand that is causing chemical imbalances in young boys.

[AmeriThai]

I can't be bothered to read the whole thread, but in answer to the original question;

I believe it's the hormones that they pump into all the chicken that gets eaten in Thailand that is causing chemical imbalances in young boys.

What kind of hormones?

[AmeriThai]

The Bible says, in so many words, that the penis fits into the mouth and the anus, naturally and normally.

Never heard that before. Where does it say that?

Leviticus 18:22 , when mentioning man-man sexual intercourse, refers to it "as a man lies with a woman." Anal and oral heterosexual intercourse, therefore, is described as normal or natural. In my opinion. The only place that the Bible refers to anal and oral heterosexual intercourse, it is normal or natural for a man and a woman to do (assuming it is not forced, and is among adults). So, you married gentlemen can have those kinds of sex with your wife, without any sin.

First of all, we have a nephew who has now lived as a katoey for a few years. He has his own hair stylist shop. He also lives in a monogamous relationship with a man who is quite older. When he chose to live this way, it wasn’t entirely unexpected, since he’s always seemed to be rather passive and effeminate. Still, his mother and others were somewhat shocked when he revealed his intent. However, no one has been judgmental of him and feel the choice is his to make, and we all still support him as a relative. Although he likes to dress in clothing somewhat more suitable for females, and tries to appear as if he is a female, he doesn’t take any hormonal treatments to change his physical characteristics. He just likes to look and act feminine. If any of us are disappointed about anything, it’s his poor choice of a partner.

As for the biblical reference, I have to admit that I looked it up out of curiosity. I have no idea how you arrived at your conclusion. It’s either been something heard from someone else, misunderstood, or taken out of context. I guess a person could also find something in the Lord of the Rings Trilogy to claim that intelligent life exists on Mars. It’s not a matter of the source, it’s a matter of context.

The passage in question does NOT state or imply anything about oral or anal sexuality being normal or natural. It says: “You shall NOT lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.” It’s clearly saying that the Israelites were forbidden to adopt such practices, even though some people in some cultures did practice such styles. However, whether a person currently agrees or disagrees with it is a different matter.

If a person is to assume the particular passage in question supports anal and oral sexuality as being natural and normal, then they must also assume that incest and bestiality is normal and natural. I don’t think too many people would agree with that.

Even though I feel that people can freely choose whatever lifestyle they want to live within what‘s considered socially accepted or tolerated, using such a passage out of context to claim it supports such a lifestyle is natural or normal is erroneous. Maybe it’s not the best reference to use to support an opinion of what a person may consider to be ‘natural and normal’. Perhaps better to stick with genetics.

[TheDon]

A lady boy is not a woman. thats why they are not called a woman. They are far from a woman. Who thinks they are a woman dont know anything

[qwertz]

A lady boy is not a woman. thats why they are not called a woman. They are far from a woman. Who thinks they are a woman dont know anything

They themselves think they are women, Don.

[TheDon]

So what if they think there females, they are not females. If someone thinks he is superman doesnt mean he is

[roygsd]

The Bible says, in so many words, that the penis fits into the mouth and the anus, naturally and normally.

Never heard that before. Where does it say that?

Leviticus 18:22 , when mentioning man-man sexual intercourse, refers to it "as a man lies with a woman." Anal and oral heterosexual intercourse, therefore, is described as normal or natural. In my opinion. The only place that the Bible refers to anal and oral heterosexual intercourse, it is normal or natural for a man and a woman to do (assuming it is not forced, and is among adults). So, you married gentlemen can have those kinds of sex with your wife, without any sin.

Now, back to ladyboys in Thailand.

But of course the bible was written long after Crist died and is only the various writers interpretation/ opinion, and as such the book is fiction rather than fact.

Roy gsd

Who is Crist? I played baseball with a Freddy Crist...any relation?

Jesus H ( without the H that is).

roy

[cophen]

I suspect basic economics is behind this....it seems the worse the Thai economy gets, the higher the number of lb's.

Of course it is. Every time you're short of a few quid you volunteer to have your nuts chopped off.

Do any of you people ever think your posts through?

[cophen]

Homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. This is scientific fact and if you don't like it, that is your problem.

No its not, Its like when you want a drink, your either a Coke man or a Pepsi man, you choose what you want.

People who are gay choose to be gay. Its BS that people are born gay

You are as dumb as the dumbells you lift. You don't have a clue to the gay lifestyle (although you have "a couple of gay friends" that you like to torment). And you certainly don't have a clue about the world of ladyboys. It would be best if you went back to your Guido jokes...at least those are funny and not pathetic.

Its true, nobody is born gay, that is just rubbish, its a choice.

Are you gay? If not, how would you know whether gays are born or not? At what specific age did you choose to be straight? When did you make the choice between being gay or straight. I suggest you stick to what you know which is...er...nothing.

[jayjayjayjay]

If you sleep with a lady boy then you are a poof, no doubt about that, its a bloke, and if a bloke sleeps with a bloke then that means he is gay.

No if's or buts about it

Don, I think you've got issues. Settle down, the old red blooded aussie boy in you needs a worldly lesson. Growing up on an Aust farm I had the same indoctrination as you. Fortuneately I wised up and opened up my eyes to the world once I travelled. 20 yrs latter I still love beautiful women and have no intention of sleeping with a lady boy. What I have got heaps of is empathy and understanding without the need to be judgemental for gays, transexual and the like. If your anything like your avatar, then I hope you get over the need to constantly prove your a bloke, unless you have some doubts!!! Maybe that's your own fight, but once you accept that guy that do guys are people, ladyboys are people, straights are people, I certainly hope you don't continue the need to promote the old "poof stuff" slugging match.

My girlfriend is beautiful, and so is her older sister "Beer". Beer just happens to be a ladyboy. She started dressing up around the age of 8!!!!! Through high school until now she has done nothing but follow the life of a girl. My gf witnessed this first hand on a daily basis. The bottom line is she was born like this. Count your lucky stars that you were not blessed with these genes, I dare say a Sydney gym might not be the best place for you to hang out if it was LadyBoy Don!!! Beer is a beautiful person, I wish her the best in finding a soul mate as very few ladyboys do.

I note fromyou avitar you live in the twilight zone, presumably thats near uranus?

Not sure advice from a sheep farmer counts for much, you might also like Beer, but I'll stick with the Brandy and coke

thanks

roy gsd

So what if you order brandy/coke, take a sip and it's rum/coke. Are you now gay? I say this coz Beer has a few story's about the guys who never knew!!!!!!!!!!! Funny as hel_l to listen too!! The last was a drunk Korean guy that insisted she was a girl even when she/he mentioned she might be a LB. They did it with the lights out, he never knew, poor fella, so is he gay or not!

And to Don, you've got bigger issues than I really thought. Never saw your response to my first post on this issue, so guess your either in denial or fighting your demons. Pump a few more weight so you can really pound the s**t out of the next gay or lb that is attracted to all those muscles your bulging with.

BTW, did you know that normal guys like myself are the least interesting in your gym rat achievements, it's gay guys that swoon over your iron pumping magazine. So there is obvioulsy a reason you love to look like a piece of prized meat! Meanwhile the rest of us are watching normal guy and girls in normal XXX pornos.

Think back really really hard now, did any of those girls in Pattaya have a husky voice!!!!!!!! 55555555

Edited August 1, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[PeaceBlondie]

The Bible says, in so many words, that the penis fits into the mouth and the anus, naturally and normally.

Never heard that before. Where does it say that?

Leviticus 18:22 , when mentioning man-man sexual intercourse, refers to it "as a man lies with a woman." Anal and oral heterosexual intercourse, therefore, is described as normal or natural. In my opinion. The only place that the Bible refers to anal and oral heterosexual intercourse, it is normal or natural for a man and a woman to do (assuming it is not forced, and is among adults). So, you married gentlemen can have those kinds of sex with your wife, without any sin.

...As for the biblical reference, I have to admit that I looked it up out of curiosity. I have no idea how you arrived at your conclusion. It’s either been something heard from someone else, misunderstood, or taken out of context. I guess a person could also find something in the Lord of the Rings Trilogy to claim that intelligent life exists on Mars. It’s not a matter of the source, it’s a matter of context.

The passage in question does NOT state or imply anything about oral or anal sexuality being normal or natural. It says: “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.” It’s clearly saying that the Israelites were forbidden to adopt such practices, even though some people in some cultures did practice such styles. However, whether a person currently agrees or disagrees with it is a different matter.

If a person is to assume the particular passage in question supports anal and oral sexuality as being natural and normal, then they must also assume that incest and bestiality is normal and natural. I don’t think too many people would agree with that.

Even though I feel that people can freely choose whatever lifestyle they want to live within what‘s considered socially accepted or tolerated, using such a passage out of context to claim it supports such a lifestyle is natural or normal is erroneous. Maybe it’s not the best reference to use to support an opinion of what a person may consider to be ‘natural and normal’. Perhaps better to stick with genetics.

Amerithai, thanks for your mention of how you and your Thai family accept your nephew's orientation.

I would have left your comment stand without a response until you equated human anal and oral intercourse with incest and bestiality. That was far more outlandish than your reference to Lord of the Rings Trilogy. I am aiming at the one Bible verse that has been used as a justification to KILL anybody who practices gay intercourse.

I presume we agree that this passage, in context, is referring to consensual, adult, human intercourse. Euphemistically it is clearly referring to the insertion of a penis inside the body openings of another partner. It contrasts hetero with homo. Now, when a man and woman do that, many things are presemt: penis, vagina, mouths, and rectums. But in gay intercourse between two men, the vagina is absent. In what way - how - can a man lie with another man, as either of them can lie with a woman? Obviously, by oral and anal intercourse. It is mentioned as a way that a man and woman have sex, normally or naturally. It is the only place in the moral code of the Old Testament that it is mentioned. It's okay for a man and wife to do oral and anal sex. It's natural. Which answers your original question.

Christians (not Jews) have used that passage as a gay-bashing club for over 1,500 years, without realizing that the passage claims heterosexual oral and anal intercourse is normal and natural. They miss the point. Thus, they make ridiculous and inaccurate statements about what is normal or natural. Of course, this has nothing to do with Thailand or Buddhism, except to homophobic, misinformed farang in Thailand.

[kiakaha]

Conversely to "ladyboys" you also see alot of "mangirls" in Thailand (see all the tom(ทอม)/dee(ดี้) couples walking around)

Note: For those who dont know, tom and dee aren't native thai words, they are thai transcriptions of the foreign words (tomboy and lady)

Edited August 1, 2008 by kiakaha

[sgtpeppers]

Conversely to "ladyboys" you also see alot of "mangirls" in Thailand (see all the tom(ทอม)/dee(ดี้) couples walking around)

Note: For those who dont know, tom and dee aren't native thai words, they are thai transcriptions of the foreign words (tomboy and lady)

So some people say ladyboys are women and men attracted to ladyboys are hetro. Fine.

So does this mean mangirls are men and therefore the men watching leso porn are gay ?

[Scott]

Come on, the reason there are so many ladyboys in Thailand is because of the inexpensive (fake) Gucci bags, and the nice shoes! Nobody can resist that stuff!

[mgjackson69]

I am not surprised at all re: the number of ladyboys in Thailand

1) The Thai society is much more accepting of this trait/behaviour/whatever you want to call it then many other societies, especially Western

2) In general, Thai men are somewhat effeminate anyway.

[PapiRico]

I am not surprised at all re: the number of ladyboys in Thailand

1) The Thai society is much more accepting of this trait/behaviour/whatever you want to call it then many other societies, especially Western

2) In general, Thai men are somewhat effeminate anyway.

Do you know whats really sad?? That when you travel and you see a bunch of eurotrash farang, old and blind not knowing that the 'girl" they are with is actually ladyboy....but ofcourse everyone else can.....nasty!

p.s.maybe they do know...and thats even worse.

[RakJungTorlae]

Homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. This is scientific fact and if you don't like it, that is your problem.

No its not, Its like when you want a drink, your either a Coke man or a Pepsi man, you choose what you want.

People who are gay choose to be gay. Its BS that people are born gay

You are as dumb as the dumbells you lift. You don't have a clue to the gay lifestyle (although you have "a couple of gay friends" that you like to torment). And you certainly don't have a clue about the world of ladyboys. It would be best if you went back to your Guido jokes...at least those are funny and not pathetic.

Its true, nobody is born gay, that is just rubbish, its a choice.

Are you gay? If not, how would you know whether gays are born or not? At what specific age did you choose to be straight? When did you make the choice between being gay or straight. I suggest you stick to what you know which is...er...nothing.

I’m with don. I don’t see how people are born gay. Its just impossible. Then if you disagree we can ague about ghost next. And then we can ague after that about government mind control.

[sgtpeppers]

Homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. This is scientific fact and if you don't like it, that is your problem.

No its not, Its like when you want a drink, your either a Coke man or a Pepsi man, you choose what you want.

People who are gay choose to be gay. Its BS that people are born gay

Sorry, but you are ignorant. Homosexuals are oppressed in most countries in the world. In some countries, the punishment is imprisonment or even death. Why would people CHOOSE that?

simple.

for them, facing their masculinity is a far more frightening prospect.

Are you saying homosexuals aren't masculine? Most are very masculine. You don't even notice them. Again, the ignorance.

the passive ones are out of touch with their masculinity. they are the ones most easily targeted , as u say, some are hard to notice.

ladyboys are the passive homosexuals that just take it to the next level. their masculine potential frightens the hel_l out of them.

[Jingthing]

This has turned into homophobia central. Since it has gone so off topic and encouraged hate speech, I suggest it be closed.

Edited August 1, 2008 by Jingthing

[AFKAFSinLOS]

This has turned into homophobia central. Since it has gone so off topic and encouraged hate speech, I suggest it be closed.

I think if you step back objectively, while there are some people who seem uncomfortable with homosexuals and some people who are uncomfortable with homophobes, there's actually a lot of people on here not homophobic and supporting the rights of homosexuals or ladyboys regardless of their own sexual persuasion. I think you are focusing too much one particular side to the topic...

[RakJungTorlae]

This has turned into homophobia central. Since it has gone so off topic and encouraged hate speech, I suggest it be closed.

I don’t think people are hating anything. And it is he’s topic he can take it any direction as he wants HA!!!!!!

[AFKAFSinLOS]

The Bible says, in so many words, that the penis fits into the mouth and the anus, naturally and normally.

Never heard that before. Where does it say that?

Leviticus 18:22 , when mentioning man-man sexual intercourse, refers to it "as a man lies with a woman." Anal and oral heterosexual intercourse, therefore, is described as normal or natural. In my opinion. The only place that the Bible refers to anal and oral heterosexual intercourse, it is normal or natural for a man and a woman to do (assuming it is not forced, and is among adults). So, you married gentlemen can have those kinds of sex with your wife, without any sin.

...As for the biblical reference, I have to admit that I looked it up out of curiosity. I have no idea how you arrived at your conclusion. It's either been something heard from someone else, misunderstood, or taken out of context. I guess a person could also find something in the Lord of the Rings Trilogy to claim that intelligent life exists on Mars. It's not a matter of the source, it's a matter of context.

The passage in question does NOT state or imply anything about oral or anal sexuality being normal or natural. It says: "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination." It's clearly saying that the Israelites were forbidden to adopt such practices, even though some people in some cultures did practice such styles. However, whether a person currently agrees or disagrees with it is a different matter.

If a person is to assume the particular passage in question supports anal and oral sexuality as being natural and normal, then they must also assume that incest and bestiality is normal and natural. I don't think too many people would agree with that.

Even though I feel that people can freely choose whatever lifestyle they want to live within what's considered socially accepted or tolerated, using such a passage out of context to claim it supports such a lifestyle is natural or normal is erroneous. Maybe it's not the best reference to use to support an opinion of what a person may consider to be 'natural and normal'. Perhaps better to stick with genetics.

Amerithai, thanks for your mention of how you and your Thai family accept your nephew's orientation.

I would have left your comment stand without a response until you equated human anal and oral intercourse with incest and bestiality. That was far more outlandish than your reference to Lord of the Rings Trilogy. I am aiming at the one Bible verse that has been used as a justification to KILL anybody who practices gay intercourse.

I presume we agree that this passage, in context, is referring to consensual, adult, human intercourse. Euphemistically it is clearly referring to the insertion of a penis inside the body openings of another partner. It contrasts hetero with homo. Now, when a man and woman do that, many things are presemt: penis, vagina, mouths, and rectums. But in gay intercourse between two men, the vagina is absent. In what way - how - can a man lie with another man, as either of them can lie with a woman? Obviously, by oral and anal intercourse. It is mentioned as a way that a man and woman have sex, normally or naturally. It is the only place in the moral code of the Old Testament that it is mentioned. It's okay for a man and wife to do oral and anal sex. It's natural. Which answers your original question.

Christians (not Jews) have used that passage as a gay-bashing club for over 1,500 years, without realizing that the passage claims heterosexual oral and anal intercourse is normal and natural. They miss the point. Thus, they make ridiculous and inaccurate statements about what is normal or natural. Of course, this has nothing to do with Thailand or Buddhism, except to homophobic, misinformed farang in Thailand.

I simply took away AmeriThais comment that, so much of this depends on context and interpretation, hence his overall comment makes sense. I didn't take away the specifics you've inferred.

As an aside, I actually studied the Lord of The Rings Trilogy of books, and many of Tolkiens other works. There are a lot of people who tried to draw biblical themes out, as well as people trying to look at the impact World Wars had on his works. I'm sure AmeriThai is stretching the point to illustrate it about Mars, but the general point is that when different people read something they see different things in it, because of the way they project their own experiences and context onto it. Pretty similar to Jingjing's post on this thread becoming homophobic. I don't see it that way. He does....the answer is probably somewhere on one of the many spectrums you referred to earlier...

[poshthai]

Many ladyboys in Thailand do it for one thing.

MONEY

They can attract gay guys(dressing like a man without tits)

They can attract bi-sexual guys( with tits)

they can attarct some so called hetro who have aproblem as to which way to swing.

I have been amazed how some of my friends have been with a katoy.i find it horrible

[Ulysses G.]

I'm not gay either, but I do think that it is natural and that God made them that way, so I don't understand how it can be a sin.

One strike against Christianity in my mind.

[roygsd]

From this BBC article we have one explanation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7529227.stm

<snip>

A ratio of 10% to 20% of boys calling themselves transsexual in a provincial high school does seem very high, but Mr Sitisak assured me that in his experience it was not unusual.

Which brought up a question that has been rattling around my head ever since I first lived in Thailand seven years ago: Why do so many Thai men want to become women?

I asked Suttirat Simsiriwong, who became a campaigner for transgender rights after she was barred entry to a nightclub at an international hotel in Bangkok last year.

Poised, articulate and very feminine, it is hard to tell that she was not born a woman.

"Maybe the numbers of gays, of people with sexual identity issues, might be the same as in other countries," said Suttirat, "but because Thai society and culture tend to be very sweet, very soft, and the men can be really feminine, if we tend to be gay, many of us tend to be transgender."

<snip>

-----------

So does this sound right to you?

Thai culture, makes it easier for transgenders to "come out" and express themselves?

Or is it a case that they see it as a way out to avoid their masculinity ?

Or perhaps they want to belong in a group, have a sense of identity ?

Teenage rebelling /phase they are going through ?

Thais tell me 20 years ago the ladyboy phenomonen was almost non-existant. It is a modern trend.

Perhaps it is just a type of show off "fashion"

10-20% seems disproportionately high.

Because they dont have a visa sponsor

roy gsd