Free Bus, Free Train To Help Low-income Earners

[george]

Free transit services by bus, rail launched

BANGKOK: -- A new Thai government-sponsored package containing six measures designed to assist the low-income public, including both free bus and train fares for six months, was launched on Friday.

Acting State Railway of Thailand (SRT) governor Thawil Samnakhon said on Modernine TV Friday morning that he expected the free rides which are now being offered on third-class and non-air-conditioned trains would increase the daily passenger volume between 15-20 per cent as compared to previous ridership.

Assessment of traffic routes which are most heavily used by travelers will be conducted so that the SRT could increase its services to cope with passenger demand, he said.

The SRT is expected to lose about Bt250 million in revenue, Mr. Thawil said, but the government will help pay for the losses.

Meanwhile, Pinet Puapattanakul, director of the state-run Bangkok Mass Transit Authority (BMTA), said his agency had already prepared 800 buses for to serve the increased volume of Bangkok passengers.

Mr. Pinet said bus services would remain unchanged although the bus agency does not collect fees. Service assessment will be made this week which could be used for improving bus services in future.

All six measures are being implemented from Friday, except for the reduction of excise tax on fuel which began July 25. The measures are aimed at boosting the Thai economy, which has become sluggish due to soaring oil prices, and also to assist the poor and low income wage-earners.

The measures concerned are cuts in excise taxes on fuel, postponing an increase in prices for liquefied petroleum gas used by private householders and the free use of tap water by households using less than 50 cubic metres per month. The government will absorb the cost.

The other measures are the free use of electricity of less than 80 units per month by households, with the government shouldering the expense, while for households using less than 150 units per month the government can pay half the bill, free travel on 800 ordinary buses operated by BMTA on 73 routes within Bangkok and its outlying areas, and free travel on third class railway carriages.

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej has said the measures will cost the government about Bt46 billion (US$1.4 billion).

-- TNA 2008-08-01

[TAWP]

And what should the low-income people do when this stops in 6 months?

[baanthale]

And what should the low-income people do when this stops in 6 months?

Start to pay again? And hopefully with a little bit more money in their pockets

[TAWP]

Right, since they will have saved money during these 6 months to offset the increased cost they have to cover for the next 5 years...or maybe some of them have won the lottery and will share with everyone else that is poor...?

Teach a man to fish...

[Plus]

Pad is planning major rallies in Bangkok and now their supporters can take free train rides to the capital. No violent clashes in the lawless countryside, no problems with providing transport, no dodging check points - all problems solved.

Samak must be fuming.

[baanthale]

Right, since they will have saved money during these 6 months to offset the increased cost they have to cover for the next 5 years...or maybe some of them have won the lottery and will share with everyone else that is poor...?

Teach a man to fish...

You are right, teach the poor by holding their head under water, should not try to help in any way Each for them self, It's not my problem exactlly like you learnd in your own welfare state

And no, I'm not talking about "cut down money on three's", I'm talking about a little sharing, humanity and equality. Letting people who can afford it, to pay taxes like they should, instead off buying Benz cars to show off. It's not only the poor in Thailand who need's education, also the rich needs education in proper behavior and fairness to their own.

[Payboy]

Letting people who can afford it, to pay taxes like they should, instead off buying Benz cars to show off.

i'm not sure but, it could be possible for a quite a few thais to buy benz cars after paying due taxes....

[baanthale]

Letting people who can afford it, to pay taxes like they should, instead off buying Benz cars to show off.

i'm not sure but, it could be possible for a quite a few thais to buy benz cars after paying due taxes....

Correct, but I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about the majority

[Payboy]

Letting people who can afford it, to pay taxes like they should, instead off buying Benz cars to show off.

i'm not sure but, it could be possible for a quite a few thais to buy benz cars after paying due taxes....

Correct, but I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about the majority

how dare they drive luxury cars, those 3rd world tax dodgers.....

[baanthale]

The majority of the 10 % rich, sorry

[Johpa]

Teach a man to fish...

Oh, they teach then how to fish, and they learn, and they do indeed fish. But the people who taught them to fish have over fished the seas and now there are no fish. And the beat goes on.

[aazA]

I think this is small change, owing to the fact that, the frozen assets of toxin and co, can help the poor thai,s. If and when these cases, come to an end. And not to forget, BUSH IS ON HIS WAY. cant lose face. IMHO. .

[Heng]

The majority of the 10 % rich, sorry

You mean the 10% who employ (clothe, feed, and shelter) the other 90%?

[Johpa]

The majority of the 10 % rich, sorry

You mean the 10% who employ (clothe, feed, and shelter) the other 90%?

Or the same 10% who insure that certain large portions of the other 90% have few options other than to migrate into the cities to live in slums to be cheap labor and of course to provide affordable oral gratification, as explored in Stephen Frear's excellent small film 'Dirty Pretty Things'.

[baanthale]

The majority of the 10 % rich, sorry

You mean the 10% who employ (clothe, feed, and shelter) the other 90%?

I suppose that's a way to look at it to, if you still want the rest of the world to see your country as part of the 3rd world

[sriracha john]

Pad is planning major rallies in Bangkok and now their supporters can take free train rides to the capital. No violent clashes in the lawless countryside, no problems with providing transport, no dodging check points - all problems solved.

Samak must be fuming.

Samak, through his governmental subsidies... will become the the hidden "deep pockets" that's been funding PAD.

The hilarity of the irony is staggering.

:D

Edited August 2, 2008 by sriracha john

[chuck_s]

Yes, but some of the buses on the lines have decreased the number of buses operating in the free zones. Like 191 for example.

[chang35baht]

Yeah, and what about the poor people in the other provinces? Or am I missing something?

[Plus]

They can watch free buses on TV.

Just like Johnpa said:

"...large portions of the other 90% have few options other than to migrate into the cities..."

Though he probably meant to blame "elites" for that, not People Power.

[Heng]

The majority of the 10 % rich, sorry

You mean the 10% who employ (clothe, feed, and shelter) the other 90%?

Or the same 10% who insure that certain large portions of the other 90% have few options other than to migrate into the cities to live in slums to be cheap labor and of course to provide affordable oral gratification, as explored in Stephen Frear's excellent small film 'Dirty Pretty Things'.

Ah yes, making excuses for those who chose 'sanuk in the moment' over work, saving, investing, and 'overall sanuk for all time.' You control your own destiny. What you keep spouting is 'someone else keeps controlling my destiny.'

[Heng]

The majority of the 10 % rich, sorry

You mean the 10% who employ (clothe, feed, and shelter) the other 90%?

I suppose that's a way to look at it to, if you still want the rest of the world to see your country as part of the 3rd world

It's first world all the way, all 300 meters to where my property meets the road, and approximately 10-15 meters in every direction that I move. You're deluding yourself if you think that any of the 10-20% anywhere in the world feel any different.

The majority of the world's billions have mistakenly bought into religion, democracy, and whatever the current buzzwords are for "sit around and wait for something better to happen" or "don't worry, heaven awaits, the next life will be better..."

[baanthale]

The majority of the 10 % rich, sorry

You mean the 10% who employ (clothe, feed, and shelter) the other 90%?

Or the same 10% who insure that certain large portions of the other 90% have few options other than to migrate into the cities to live in slums to be cheap labor and of course to provide affordable oral gratification, as explored in Stephen Frear's excellent small film 'Dirty Pretty Things'.

Ah yes, making excuses for those who chose 'sanuk in the moment' over work, saving, investing, and 'overall sanuk for all time.' You control your own destiny. What you keep spouting is 'someone else keeps controlling my destiny.'

Tell you what, next time you pass some construction site in your area, you should take that discussion with the workers there and get their opinions. Yes, I mean the once that works min. 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, carrying concrete around for a whooping 180 baht a day ! Maybe they will listen to your, "you control your destiny hallelujah", if they have the time

[Heng]

Tell you what, next time you pass some construction site in your area, you should take that discussion with the workers there and get their opinions. Yes, I mean the once that works min. 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, carrying concrete around for a whooping 180 baht a day ! Maybe they will listen to your, "you control your destiny hallelujah", if they have the time

Have done that more than a few times, not in the A.C. Nielson survey style you suggest though, as we have construction workers on the payroll pretty much all year round. The majority just tread water (not unlike the same way you'll find some/many people at ALL income levels treading water). Their income goes toward drink, gambling, zero to shelter (why should it? as we shelter them... I suppose that's the logic anyway), just about zero to food (why should it? the boss pays for most of our food is the reason there), and believe it or not, many find the time to actually go to the bottom tier brothels around town in their meagre spare time.

A very slim minority... not unlike the "10-20%" mentioned above, at least in principle, not in overall wealth of course take their income, save it/invest it, and delay gratification for their long term benefit. No, they aren't buying up property off of Sukhuvit or Thepprasit Rd., but some are buying entire rai sized plots and building homes in Laos and Kampuchea @ 15,000 Baht a rai. But that's exactly what they SHOULD be doing with their relatively low income. I have a former maid in that category. We have a former motorcycle messenger that now owns a couple of rotee pushcarts. Another is a nanny in the extended family who has actually managed to complete high school and is now attending commercial college through suksa-pooyai (the local equivalent of night school). A former sales executive who left us about a decade ago now has two million Baht key money booths in Chatuchak doing a thriving business in sheets/pillow cases/bedding, etc. Life's not exactly fair, but you do actually have a lot of say in which direction it's headed.

People just need to be realistic and some people should probably tone down their 'life is unfair, the man has me down' way of thinking. I don't realistically think that I'll ever own a multinational company, a private island, or have a private jet... in the same way that the guy who is hauling bags of cement around our construction site probably shouldn't be dreaming of owning XX+ properties and several local businesses employing hundreds. It's a certainty though that there are plenty of comfortable alternatives in between those 'extremes.'

Edited August 3, 2008 by Heng

[baanthale]

Tell you what, next time you pass some construction site in your area, you should take that discussion with the workers there and get their opinions. Yes, I mean the once that works min. 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, carrying concrete around for a whooping 180 baht a day ! Maybe they will listen to your, "you control your destiny hallelujah", if they have the time

Have done that more than a few times, not in the A.C. Nielson survey style you suggest though, as we have construction workers on the payroll pretty much all year round. The majority just tread water (not unlike the same way you'll find some/many people at ALL income levels treading water). Their income goes toward drink, gambling, zero to shelter (why should it? as we shelter them... I suppose that's the logic anyway), just about zero to food (why should it? the boss pays for most of our food is the reason there), and believe it or not, many find the time to actually go to the bottom tier brothels around town in their meagre spare time.

A very slim minority... not unlike the "10-20%" mentioned above, at least in principle, not in overall wealth of course take their income, save it/invest it, and delay gratification for their long term benefit. No, they aren't buying up property off of Sukhuvit or Thepprasit Rd., but some are buying entire rai sized plots and building homes in Laos and Kampuchea @ 15,000 Baht a rai. But that's exactly what they SHOULD be doing with their relatively low income. I have a former maid in that category. We have a former motorcycle messenger that now owns a couple of rotee pushcarts. Another is a nanny in the extended family who has actually managed to complete high school and is now attending commercial college through suksa-pooyai (the local equivalent of night school). A former sales executive who left us about a decade ago now has two million Baht key money booths in Chatuchak doing a thriving business in sheets/pillow cases/bedding, etc. Life's not exactly fair, but you do actually have a lot of say in which direction it's headed.

People just need to be realistic and some people should probably tone down their 'life is unfair, the man has me down' way of thinking. I don't realistically think that I'll ever own a multinational company, a private island, or have a private jet... in the same way that the guy who is hauling bags of cement around our construction site probably shouldn't be dreaming of owning XX+ properties and several local businesses employing hundreds. It's a certainty though that there are plenty of comfortable alternatives in between those 'extremes.'

No, life is not always fair, and that's okay. But when we are talking about income differences in Thailand, we are not talking about fairness anymore, we are talking about inhumanity. Guess I did the right thing when I "controlled my destiny", born and raised outside Thailand

[Heng]

Tell you what, next time you pass some construction site in your area, you should take that discussion with the workers there and get their opinions. Yes, I mean the once that works min. 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, carrying concrete around for a whooping 180 baht a day ! Maybe they will listen to your, "you control your destiny hallelujah", if they have the time

Have done that more than a few times, not in the A.C. Nielson survey style you suggest though, as we have construction workers on the payroll pretty much all year round. The majority just tread water (not unlike the same way you'll find some/many people at ALL income levels treading water). Their income goes toward drink, gambling, zero to shelter (why should it? as we shelter them... I suppose that's the logic anyway), just about zero to food (why should it? the boss pays for most of our food is the reason there), and believe it or not, many find the time to actually go to the bottom tier brothels around town in their meagre spare time.

A very slim minority... not unlike the "10-20%" mentioned above, at least in principle, not in overall wealth of course take their income, save it/invest it, and delay gratification for their long term benefit. No, they aren't buying up property off of Sukhuvit or Thepprasit Rd., but some are buying entire rai sized plots and building homes in Laos and Kampuchea @ 15,000 Baht a rai. But that's exactly what they SHOULD be doing with their relatively low income. I have a former maid in that category. We have a former motorcycle messenger that now owns a couple of rotee pushcarts. Another is a nanny in the extended family who has actually managed to complete high school and is now attending commercial college through suksa-pooyai (the local equivalent of night school). A former sales executive who left us about a decade ago now has two million Baht key money booths in Chatuchak doing a thriving business in sheets/pillow cases/bedding, etc. Life's not exactly fair, but you do actually have a lot of say in which direction it's headed.

People just need to be realistic and some people should probably tone down their 'life is unfair, the man has me down' way of thinking. I don't realistically think that I'll ever own a multinational company, a private island, or have a private jet... in the same way that the guy who is hauling bags of cement around our construction site probably shouldn't be dreaming of owning XX+ properties and several local businesses employing hundreds. It's a certainty though that there are plenty of comfortable alternatives in between those 'extremes.'

No, life is not always fair, and that's okay. But when we are talking about income differences in Thailand, we are not talking about fairness anymore, we are talking about inhumanity. Guess I did the right thing when I "controlled my destiny", born and raised outside Thailand

Way to avoid the discussion, Baanthale.

It's all relative. It's easy to take one's own personal standards, apply them to others and assume they are suffering. It's just as easy to look at those who are better off and try to imagine that they are somehow to blame for one's own status in life... or like some folks around here who would like to blame those who are better off for the lack of ability or poor fortune of their local loved ones, nevermind that those same loved ones probably just want to be a little more comfortable and don't dream of being part of the 10-20% at all.

Look at those poor people walking to work 7 days a week, 12 hours a day. Look at those poor people with half empty shopping carts. Look at those poor people who live in rented studio apartments. Look at those poor people on the bus. Look at all those poor people at the back of the plane. Look at those poor people in the general passenger lounge. Look at those poor people who have to use the commercial airport terminal. And so forth...

Edited August 3, 2008 by Heng

[baanthale]

Tell you what, next time you pass some construction site in your area, you should take that discussion with the workers there and get their opinions. Yes, I mean the once that works min. 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, carrying concrete around for a whooping 180 baht a day ! Maybe they will listen to your, "you control your destiny hallelujah", if they have the time

Have done that more than a few times, not in the A.C. Nielson survey style you suggest though, as we have construction workers on the payroll pretty much all year round. The majority just tread water (not unlike the same way you'll find some/many people at ALL income levels treading water). Their income goes toward drink, gambling, zero to shelter (why should it? as we shelter them... I suppose that's the logic anyway), just about zero to food (why should it? the boss pays for most of our food is the reason there), and believe it or not, many find the time to actually go to the bottom tier brothels around town in their meagre spare time.

A very slim minority... not unlike the "10-20%" mentioned above, at least in principle, not in overall wealth of course take their income, save it/invest it, and delay gratification for their long term benefit. No, they aren't buying up property off of Sukhuvit or Thepprasit Rd., but some are buying entire rai sized plots and building homes in Laos and Kampuchea @ 15,000 Baht a rai. But that's exactly what they SHOULD be doing with their relatively low income. I have a former maid in that category. We have a former motorcycle messenger that now owns a couple of rotee pushcarts. Another is a nanny in the extended family who has actually managed to complete high school and is now attending commercial college through suksa-pooyai (the local equivalent of night school). A former sales executive who left us about a decade ago now has two million Baht key money booths in Chatuchak doing a thriving business in sheets/pillow cases/bedding, etc. Life's not exactly fair, but you do actually have a lot of say in which direction it's headed.

People just need to be realistic and some people should probably tone down their 'life is unfair, the man has me down' way of thinking. I don't realistically think that I'll ever own a multinational company, a private island, or have a private jet... in the same way that the guy who is hauling bags of cement around our construction site probably shouldn't be dreaming of owning XX+ properties and several local businesses employing hundreds. It's a certainty though that there are plenty of comfortable alternatives in between those 'extremes.'

No, life is not always fair, and that's okay. But when we are talking about income differences in Thailand, we are not talking about fairness anymore, we are talking about inhumanity. Guess I did the right thing when I "controlled my destiny", born and raised outside Thailand

Way to avoid the discussion, Baanthale.

It's all relative. It's easy to take one's own personal standards, apply them to others and assume they are suffering. It's just as easy to look at those who are better off and try to imagine that they are somehow to blame for one's own status in life:

Look at those poor people walking to work 7 days a week, 12 hours a day. Look at those poor people with half empty shopping carts. Look at those poor people who live in rented studio apartments. Look at those poor people on the bus. Look at all those poor people at the back of the plane. Look at those poor people in the general passenger lounge. Look at those poor people who have to use the commercial airport terminal. And so forth...

Agreed, all is relative. I do not try to avoid the discussion, we just have so different values on this things I think. Blame my north European upbringing Anyhow, I am glad that my parents and my society taught me an high level of compassion and humanity to others, and I am also happy to still keep that thinking after 20 years in Thailand. It's enough people looking down on others and taking advantages of them already, we do not need more of that in the world! That's just how I see things

[Heng]

Agreed, all is relative. I do not try to avoid the discussion, we just have so different values on this things I think. Blame my north European upbringing Anyhow, I am glad that my parents and my society taught me an high level of compassion and humanity to others, and I am also happy to still keep that thinking after 20 years in Thailand. It's enough people looking down on others and taking advantages of them already, we do not need more of that in the world! That's just how I see things

Hopefully your compassion and humanity isn't just limited to talking about compassion and humanity.

"It's enough people looking down on others" And what do you call your post #15 (yeah, that's not an attempt at a condescending post).

I do agree in life that there are those who take advantage of others, and by the same token for each and every instance there is someone who allows themselves to be taken advantage of. There are those who have more and there are those who have nothing. There are those who take control their fate and there are those who just sit around waiting for life to happen to them.

That's how I see things.

[taxexile]

taught me an high level of compassion and humanity to others,

thats fine , so long as your compassion and humanity are directed at those who really need it and will benefit from it , as opposed to those who , through their own laziness and lack of morality and direction , aim ( and often succeed) in manipulating others to provide for them. one only has to look at most of the northern european countries and their socialist governments to see a long established and well developed culture of dependance among the poorest , with all that goes along with it .... a total lack of ambition , a culture of "i know my rights" , and the punitive taxation regimes directed against those who actually get out there and invest their savings by opening businesses and offering employment.

necessity has always been the mother of invention , and notwithstanding free train tickets , healthcare and education , throwing money at "the poor" rarely does anything to help them move up the ladder.

as another poster said , dont give them fish , but teach them how to catch their own.

[baanthale]

Agreed, all is relative. I do not try to avoid the discussion, we just have so different values on this things I think. Blame my north European upbringing Anyhow, I am glad that my parents and my society taught me an high level of compassion and humanity to others, and I am also happy to still keep that thinking after 20 years in Thailand. It's enough people looking down on others and taking advantages of them already, we do not need more of that in the world! That's just how I see things

Hopefully your compassion and humanity isn't just limited to talking about compassion and humanity.

"It's enough people looking down on others" And what do you call your post #15 (yeah, that's not an attempt at a condescending post).

I do agree in life that there are those who take advantage of others, and by the same token for each and every instance there is someone who allows themselves to be taken advantage of. There are those who have more and there are those who have nothing. There are those who take control their fate and there are those who just sit around waiting for life to happen to them.

That's how I see things.

You must have misunderstood my post 15#, I didn't look down on anyone, I just stated a fact. A country were almost all the assets are holded by 10% of the population, and the rest are living on near to nothing will not be seen as a welfare state.

Regarding limits on compassion and humanity, I do not say it's good enough, but only one (1) small city in my country, of totally 9 million people, took care of more Iraqi refugee's than whole USA and Canada together under and after the Iraq invasion, and we did not even attend in this war

[hammered]

Agreed, all is relative. I do not try to avoid the discussion, we just have so different values on this things I think. Blame my north European upbringing Anyhow, I am glad that my parents and my society taught me an high level of compassion and humanity to others, and I am also happy to still keep that thinking after 20 years in Thailand. It's enough people looking down on others and taking advantages of them already, we do not need more of that in the world! That's just how I see things

Hopefully your compassion and humanity isn't just limited to talking about compassion and humanity.

"It's enough people looking down on others" And what do you call your post #15 (yeah, that's not an attempt at a condescending post).

I do agree in life that there are those who take advantage of others, and by the same token for each and every instance there is someone who allows themselves to be taken advantage of. There are those who have more and there are those who have nothing. There are those who take control their fate and there are those who just sit around waiting for life to happen to them.

That's how I see things.

You must have misunderstood my post 15#, I didn't look down on anyone, I just stated a fact. A country were almost all the assets are holded by 10% of the population, and the rest are living on near to nothing will not be seen as a welfare state.

Regarding limits on compassion and humanity, I do not say it's good enough, but only one (1) small city in my country, of totally 9 million people, took care of more Iraqi refugee's than whole USA and Canada together under and after the Iraq invasion, and we did not even attend in this war

Maybe when we talk of humanity and compassion we should also include opportunity and this is critcal in Thailand. Very very few actually get the education to have any real opportunity. Just my take but we should focus our efforts in this area and any other opportunity creating area. But while focusing on this we still need to provide safety nets for those at the bottom and this is also obviously to do with humanity, compassion and is also about responsible society. Maybe less should be spent on wasteful things like defence and more on things that contribute to a better society.

By the way I dont agree with a lot this government do but the fair reduction seems reasonable to me. The tax reduction on fuel seems more questionable.

Interesting debate by the way.