Macbook Pro Woes In Chiang Mai

[nikster]

I will spare you most of this sad story, but the gist of it is that the screen on my MBP broke just as the 1 year warranty had expired. That's 20,000 BHT, thankyouverymuch.

I gave the machine to the iStudio / Maczone repair center in Chiang Mai. After a lot of back and forth with the part not in stock etc, I finally got it back with screen fixed. When I went to accept the machine, I noticed that the fans were on constantly, at max. speed. On a Mac that means a problem with the temperature sensors. So I explained and they promised to fix that and accepted responsibility.

But now they are saying they can't fix it and it needs a new logic board which is "very expensive" and they were much more reluctant to accept responsibility. In fact the engineer claims that no one touched those sensors during the repair. Impossible to prove or disprove.

The question is now - how to get the computer back and solve the issue for all parties involved? I will go by what they say - I don't know if they broke the sensors somehow or whether they just broke while the machine was there. It's pretty hard to prove they were working before, after all this machine got delivered with a broken screen so it's not like they were able to test it much. In the USA they'd probably just fix it on their own cost no matter if its a logic board or whatever, but TIT. I need a solution, not a headache.

Anyone have any ideas?

PS: Any kind of anti-Apple comments are most unwelcome in this thread. This is not about whining or complaining or bashing. Thanks.

Edited August 2, 2008 by nikster

[percy2]

I look on in amazement.

[slackula]

Have you got any thing like smcFanControl or Temperature Monitor installed? Could the settings of those have become corrupted? If not then maybe install them and see if manually controlling the fans/thresholds helps?

Also, did they install anything like a CPU intensive widget while it was in the shop?

ps: if you don't have recent backups then do it now

[slackula]

Oh yeah, and run 'top' (without quotes) in a terminal and see if anything strange is happening.

Edited August 2, 2008 by Reimar
deleted personal flaming

[nikster]

Have you got any thing like smcFanControl or Temperature Monitor installed? Could the settings of those have become corrupted? If not then maybe install them and see if manually controlling the fans/thresholds helps?

Also, did they install anything like a CPU intensive widget while it was in the shop?

ps: if you don't have recent backups then do it now

The corrupt settings is a good idea - however, I didn't have smcFanControl or temp monitor installed. Only iStatPro.

They did install smcFanControl for me in the shop to try and fix the problem. Changing the settings in smcFanControl didn't have any effect. I don't know what that means - but the fans were going at 6000 RPM no matter what - smcFanControl reported that correctly, actually, but it was not able to set the speeds to anything else.

I can rule out CPU, I was monitoring that right away and it's around 0% right after startup.

[Guest Reimar]

Could it be that the sensor is short? I had an Fujitsu some time ago which was having that problem, the sensor which was measuring the temp of the CPU was short and forced the Fan to run at full speed at the same moment I was hit the Power On button.

If some like that is happens, you can't adjust the fan rpm with some software, the fan will run at full.

Cheers.

[slackula]

Have you tried resetting the PMU and SMC?

[nikster]

Have you tried resetting the PMU and SMC?

dam_n, I thought they were the same thing for some reason - I have reset the PMU but not the SMC... will try ASAP.

[slackula]

They might be! I meant the PRAM and SMC, sorry.

I found two threads that might be of help:

1) http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=447674

2) http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6952414

PRAM reset is something like

Turn off your laptop, then hold

ctrl + command + p + r

turn laptop on while holding above combination (requires some dexterity)

release when desktop appears I think.

Apparently if a wire comes loose from a sensor the fan will run flat out as a safety precaution so there is hope yet that it is something simple like that.

[niller74]

Auch, nikster. That really sux. I hope you figure out a solution. If not I would definitely contact Apple and explain them the situation, not that it is likely to change the anything.

I just bought an iMac, for a friend, in the same store and I was so surprised about the level of service they provided. They even had a tech. drive home to my friends place and do a one hour demonstration and introduction.

After this experience I must say that an iMac could very well be my next desktop machine.

Where we come from it is always 'The customer is always right', but I guess that is not the case in your example. They should fix whatever is broken and if you tell them something broke while the box was in their custody, this should be fixed at no charge.

I can understand they would charge you for repairing the monitor though, even though it is extremely annoying when things break short after the warranty expire.

In most of EU, there are 2 years warranty on everything now, by law, except from a very few things. Apple should provide the same.

Edited August 2, 2008 by niller74

[nikster]

They might be! I meant the PRAM and SMC, sorry.

I found two threads that might be of help:

1) http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=447674

2) http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6952414

PRAM reset is something like

Turn off your laptop, then hold

ctrl + command + p + r

turn laptop on while holding above combination (requires some dexterity)

release when desktop appears I think.

Apparently if a wire comes loose from a sensor the fan will run flat out as a safety precaution so there is hope yet that it is something simple like that.

They are not the same, I found the Apple info on this. The PRAM reset is as you describe above. The lesser-known SMC reset goes like this:

- Disconnect from power

- Remove battery

- Hold Power button for 5 seconds

Cant wait to try it!

[nikster]

Update: The dealer found that there is a female plug simply missing from my mainboard. Clearly, the dealer would be responsible, but also, clearly, they are doing to deny. The engineer who did this will never admit it for fear of losing his job or maybe worse face. And the dealer simply isn't going to replace the logic board as it's 32,000 BHT.

If anyone knows whether or not the part could be re-attached please let me know. I don't have the part but I am sure I could find it somewhere on ebay, maybe salvage it from another broken logic board. Meanwhile getting used to the thought of 6000 RPM fans...

A picture is worth more than a thousand words:

[nikster]

Update 2 - to complete this thread. As expected the dealer dragged their feet. They can't fix it, logic board too expensive, so they've switched into defensive mode and are now claiming that my MBP had this problem from the beginning. Yeah right.

I'd say stay away from this shop for repairs if you at all can. They broke my machine and deny responsibility, can't really get much worse than that.

And now, the happy, happy ending: I got the machine back, it's OK apart from the fans blowing at 6000 RPM and making a lot of noise. I noticed that the fans didn't spin up immediately after sleep though - and that could only mean that the operating system controls the fan speed, rather than, say, the bios.

So I downloaded smcFanControl, which allows you to set minimum fan speed. I recommend this program for normal MacBook Pro in Thailand b/c you can set the minimum speed a bit higher than the 2000RPM it came with and end up with a cooler notebook that will last longer.

smcFanControl only sets the minimum speed - it doesn't allow users to set the max. speed. For their own safety, because if the OS decides max speed is needed, chances are you'll fry your machine if you don't let it.

smcFanControl is open source and comes with the source code. It took just 10 minutes to hack it so it allows me to set max fan speed as well - problem solved! Now have to monitor the temperature myself and adjust the fan speed myself - but it beats buying a new computer. Or a logic board replacement for 32,000 BHT.

PS: The MacZone/iStudio in Chiang Mai has one competent technician - he's OK, he did stuff for me before iStudio got big. All the others are young guys with no clue. Leave your machine with them at your own risk.

[niller74]

Seriously, I would tell this story to Apple. I am sure they would be interested in hearing that one of their certified dealers are treating their customers like this.

I don't know Apples repair policies, but if they need some kind of certification to repair Apple products, they clearly shouldn't have such certificate.

[nikster]

To add insult to injury, the also swapped my battery. I had a new battery in this MBP, just bought 2 months ago in Singapore, it had 30 load cycles and 95% capacity. Now I have one that has 245(!!) load cycles, and 50% capacity. 300 load cycles is considered dead.

I am totally going to report this, not that I think anything will come from it.

[kudroz]

Which shop exactly did you deal with? Is it the iStudio in Central Airport Plaza? I'm in the process of doing a iMac repair in Chiang Mai and I would like to avoid the place you're talking about.

[Guest Reimar]

To add insult to injury, the also swapped my battery. I had a new battery in this MBP, just bought 2 months ago in Singapore, it had 30 load cycles and 95% capacity. Now I have one that has 245(!!) load cycles, and 50% capacity. 300 load cycles is considered dead.

I am totally going to report this, not that I think anything will come from it.

If you still have the invoice from SG about the battery, I would go to the shop but even contact Apple.

Cheers.

[tjo o tjim]

To add insult to injury, the also swapped my battery. I had a new battery in this MBP, just bought 2 months ago in Singapore, it had 30 load cycles and 95% capacity. Now I have one that has 245(!!) load cycles, and 50% capacity. 300 load cycles is considered dead.

I am totally going to report this, not that I think anything will come from it.

Did you buy the computer there? Are they an Apple authorized repair center? Do you ever make it to the US?

If you originally bought the computer there, you are likely SOL, likewise if they are not an authorized repair center. But, taking it into a genius bar in the US will likely get things fixed, especially if you start off with a letter to apple. (At least I have had pretty good luck in the past, even when the cause was my own stupidity.)

[nikster]

Which shop exactly did you deal with? Is it the iStudio in Central Airport Plaza? I'm in the process of doing a iMac repair in Chiang Mai and I would like to avoid the place you're talking about.

Yeah same shop. The service center is on a road off of Huay Kao road, but it's the same chain as iStudio in Airport plaza.

If you decide to go there anyway - seems like they are the only authorized Apple dealer in Chiang Mai - make sure to print out a full Apple System Profiler report beforehand and let them sign off. That contains all details of your system including battery serial number and so on. You could even do a hardware diagnostic, restart with OS X disk in drive, hold down 'd'.

[nikster]

BTW meanwhile my injured Mac is back in working order despite the missing sensor.. I modded smcFanControl to automatically adjust fan speed depending on CPU temperature. It's cooler than before Thank God for open source! And Hendrik Holtmann for smcFanControl.

[daratbastid1]

BTW meanwhile my injured Mac is back in working order despite the missing sensor.. I modded smcFanControl to automatically adjust fan speed depending on CPU temperature. It's cooler than before Thank God for open source! And Hendrik Holtmann for smcFanControl.

sounds exactly like what mine is doing, spinning up to 6000 rpm and no way to slow it down. starts spooling up at boot. and when it wakes from sleep, takes about 1 minute to start spooling up. SMC fan control is not doing anything for me, your able to slow then down? this all started when i had to replace the top case (mouse pad and whole top cover. ) with a new one. I received the new part from ebay (with a torn ribbon cable), so i used the old ribbon cable from the old part. Now, my fans are blowing full speed. Obviously it sounds like a temp sensor problem right? that ribbon cable connects to a sensor mounts on the top case. I ordered a new ribbon cable from ebay now and i hope this goes but i am doubtful. Im pretty sure i was careful when i did the swap, maybe removing the ribbon cable from the old piece damaged it in some way. However i stat is show temp readings for all sections so i dont know <deleted>. questin, did you run the diagnostics off the DVD to see if there are any error codes? I did and I am coming up with one. is there any way of FORCING these things slower with a resistor or something???? cutting the voltage down to slow it a bit. 4000 and up is where it seems to get a little annoying! im serious here btw

[nikster]

BTW meanwhile my injured Mac is back in working order despite the missing sensor.. I modded smcFanControl to automatically adjust fan speed depending on CPU temperature. It's cooler than before Thank God for open source! And Hendrik Holtmann for smcFanControl.

sounds exactly like what mine is doing, spinning up to 6000 rpm and no way to slow it down. starts spooling up at boot. and when it wakes from sleep, takes about 1 minute to start spooling up. SMC fan control is not doing anything for me, your able to slow then down? this all started when i had to replace the top case (mouse pad and whole top cover. ) with a new one. I received the new part from ebay (with a torn ribbon cable), so i used the old ribbon cable from the old part. Now, my fans are blowing full speed. Obviously it sounds like a temp sensor problem right? that ribbon cable connects to a sensor mounts on the top case. I ordered a new ribbon cable from ebay now and i hope this goes but i am doubtful. Im pretty sure i was careful when i did the swap, maybe removing the ribbon cable from the old piece damaged it in some way. However i stat is show temp readings for all sections so i dont know <deleted>. questin, did you run the diagnostics off the DVD to see if there are any error codes? I did and I am coming up with one. is there any way of FORCING these things slower with a resistor or something???? cutting the voltage down to slow it a bit. 4000 and up is where it seems to get a little annoying! im serious here btw

Do you see the temperature displayed by smcFanControl? E.g. do you see a temp in the menu bar? If so I could forward you my hacked version of smcFanControl which forces the fans slower. You can actually do that via software, but obviously it's pretty risky since then you could easily overheat something.

I'd therefore recommend figuring out what exactly is causing the fan issue first. It could be just a loose cable on one of the 10 or so temperature sensors in the MBP. If any one of them is not connected properly, it would blow full speed.

I don't think the top case has any fan controls, AFAIK the connection cable is just for the keyboard and mouse pad. You could just open it and see if you can find any loose cables. iFixIt has some guides where you can find most temp sensors.

My hacked version of smcFanControl is pretty crude and meant only as a "either I am using this, or this machine is a write-off" kind of thing. It changes both min and max speeds according to the single temperature reading from the CPU, and makes them a bit higher than the standard settings, err on the side of caution so to say. I am happy to give it to you but don't hold me responsible if you fry your machine.

Oh, you did reset the smc, right? If you haven't done it already, do this: Disconnect power, remove battery, hold down power button for more than 5 seconds. That resets the smc and might fix your problem.

PS: My Mac is back in working order, as mentioned in another thread. Apple came through and provided a special free out-of-warranty replacement for my logic board, the dealer took responsibility for the old battery and gave me a new one. All is happy

Edited September 9, 2008 by nikster

[lotus eater]

I too have had nothing but bad opinions to report of this shop - unfortunately the only apple dealer in cm. The service counter girls are courteous and fine to deal with. But the 'technicians' are useless youngsters with no english. Won't go into details here - but my comments are based on some half dozen consultations and 'repairs' . Having said that I need to take my old ibook to them again - no other choice. I'd like to know the name of the one guy who is reported above as ok.

[daratbastid1]

I will like to try your hacked smc control, i will keep an eye on the temps if anything gets too out of line. I hope this actually works, i will let you know. I sent you a private message with my email address so you can send it. thanks!

BTW meanwhile my injured Mac is back in working order despite the missing sensor.. I modded smcFanControl to automatically adjust fan speed depending on CPU temperature. It's cooler than before Thank God for open source! And Hendrik Holtmann for smcFanControl.

sounds exactly like what mine is doing, spinning up to 6000 rpm and no way to slow it down. starts spooling up at boot. and when it wakes from sleep, takes about 1 minute to start spooling up. SMC fan control is not doing anything for me, your able to slow then down? this all started when i had to replace the top case (mouse pad and whole top cover. ) with a new one. I received the new part from ebay (with a torn ribbon cable), so i used the old ribbon cable from the old part. Now, my fans are blowing full speed. Obviously it sounds like a temp sensor problem right? that ribbon cable connects to a sensor mounts on the top case. I ordered a new ribbon cable from ebay now and i hope this goes but i am doubtful. Im pretty sure i was careful when i did the swap, maybe removing the ribbon cable from the old piece damaged it in some way. However i stat is show temp readings for all sections so i dont know <deleted>. questin, did you run the diagnostics off the DVD to see if there are any error codes? I did and I am coming up with one. is there any way of FORCING these things slower with a resistor or something???? cutting the voltage down to slow it a bit. 4000 and up is where it seems to get a little annoying! im serious here btw

Do you see the temperature displayed by smcFanControl? E.g. do you see a temp in the menu bar? If so I could forward you my hacked version of smcFanControl which forces the fans slower. You can actually do that via software, but obviously it's pretty risky since then you could easily overheat something.

I'd therefore recommend figuring out what exactly is causing the fan issue first. It could be just a loose cable on one of the 10 or so temperature sensors in the MBP. If any one of them is not connected properly, it would blow full speed.

I don't think the top case has any fan controls, AFAIK the connection cable is just for the keyboard and mouse pad. You could just open it and see if you can find any loose cables. iFixIt has some guides where you can find most temp sensors.

My hacked version of smcFanControl is pretty crude and meant only as a "either I am using this, or this machine is a write-off" kind of thing. It changes both min and max speeds according to the single temperature reading from the CPU, and makes them a bit higher than the standard settings, err on the side of caution so to say. I am happy to give it to you but don't hold me responsible if you fry your machine.

Oh, you did reset the smc, right? If you haven't done it already, do this: Disconnect power, remove battery, hold down power button for more than 5 seconds. That resets the smc and might fix your problem.

PS: My Mac is back in working order, as mentioned in another thread. Apple came through and provided a special free out-of-warranty replacement for my logic board, the dealer took responsibility for the old battery and gave me a new one. All is happy

[nikster]

I will like to try your hacked smc control, i will keep an eye on the temps if anything gets too out of line. I hope this actually works, i will let you know. I sent you a private message with my email address so you can send it. thanks!

Sent!

Sorry it took a while, I had to go back to an older version for this. I have since started to improve the program and modded it for normal use so it will just act like a better smcFanControl. That means the latest iteration doesn't set the max. speed, which is what you want.

Another important limitation: The program won't reset your max fan speed to 6000 on exit. That's a bug. But I didn't have time to implement this thus far. Anyway, it means you should not exit the program unless it's already on 6000.

Edited October 9, 2008 by nikster

[grrr]

I also had not so good luck with repairs at iStudio / Maczone. They replaced a dead hard drive in my PowerBook a few years ago and messed up the keyboard. It was still usable, though a few function keys were hard to press.

[fridgemagnet]

I am releived to learn that the mac studio is unreliable for repairs etc. I bought a macbook pro there a few months ago - no book to tell me how for leopard, and next to no use helping me to learn how to use it. I emailed Apple - they just ignore me.

I am desperate to learn - will pay for help on this -gladly. Anybody got any ideas?

I need someone to wipe the windows side and re-install, and install Intego netbarrier X5 - the viruses got me before I could figure out how to install the antivirus software - for windows it asks technical questions that I cannot answer. The leopard side installed easily.

[nikster]

I am releived to learn that the mac studio is unreliable for repairs etc. I bought a macbook pro there a few months ago - no book to tell me how for leopard, and next to no use helping me to learn how to use it. I emailed Apple - they just ignore me.

I am desperate to learn - will pay for help on this -gladly. Anybody got any ideas?

I need someone to wipe the windows side and re-install, and install Intego netbarrier X5 - the viruses got me before I could figure out how to install the antivirus software - for windows it asks technical questions that I cannot answer. The leopard side installed easily.

For learning, best to ask other mac users. If there aren't any around you, ask at the "Apple and Mac OS X forum" on notebookreview. It's here. (pm me should the link police remove this).

For removing windows, I'll give you the most important tip for OS X first: Use Spotlight. Hit Cmd-Space. The "cmd" key is the one with the Apple symbol on it. Cmd-Space should open the spotlight search field in the top right corner(**). You can also get to Spotlight by clicking the loupe in the top right corner of the screen.

Then, type "Boot Camp Assistant" in the search field. You only need to type the first few letters.. start Boot Camp Assistant

Select “Restore the startup disk to a single volume,” and then click Continue.

You can get the same info by typing "Remove Windows" in the help in Finder (cmd-?).

(**) If it doesn't it's probably switching keyboard inputs between Thai and English, you can change that in System Preferences -> Keyboard & Mouse -> Keyboard Shortcuts. Now why they'd override the most important key shortcut in the whole system with the language input, I don't know. It's not like you are going to be switching input language hundreds of times a day. It's one of the pitfalls of buying a Mac in Thailand, IMO.