Raimon Land, Northpoint, Southshore And Pattaya

[positiveaction]

Hello Everyone is beautiful Pattaya.

I wondered what the view overall was on the Northpoint Project, Southshore and Raimon Land pedigree?

Do people believe this developer will complete the projects mentioned? If they do and others are not completed due to build cost, poor backing planning/licensing, does this not mak these projects more valuable if they are completed?

All views very welcome...I have or may have financial interests involved hence the questions................

[poshthai]

I find it astonishing to see people buying condos at them sort of prices.Does anybody think what would happen if there was a big fire in some of these condos,perish the thought.

oops i remembered why people pay stupid prices,its because they can own condos.

[NotNew2You]

Raimon is a pretty solid developer (as far as Thai real estate development companies go) and they do have a good track record of completing projects they start. As to the question of a Pattaya condo being a good investment and possible price appreciation because other developers may default on project [and hence maybe some shortage of quality condos]. I don't think that will be the case. Sure, some developments may go tits-up and others may never get started, but either way, there is a lot of planned new con. do buildings on the drawing boards by large well known developers (announced and unannounced) so I don't think there will be any shortage of condos anytime soon.

I think the main risk is a country risk...political, legal, currency. These are the most difficult risks to judge. There is also the risk of a speculative bubble...but this is somewhat less than other markets as at least for foreigners, it's mainly a cash market, without a lot of leverage on the part of buyers so prices don't tend to get bid up beyond reason.

Edited August 3, 2008 by NotNew2You

[loopaimod]

I haved looked closely at their projects since I stupidly missed out on Northshore back in 2004. That units WERE great investments. The main reason I think because at that time nobody was overly worried about the Thai ownership quota. When the foreign quota was sold out people just bought under company name. That is not happening now. I am sure they will find enough foreigners to buy 49% in either project but I can't see Thais buying 1 bed apartments at 7-12 million Baht or 2 beds at anything up to 30 million!! They can buy houses etc. Thais only buy these properties for weekend homes and at these prices that is not feasible. That is the main reason even after my friends making large sums on Northshore I keep away from their developments.

If they only sold 49% is that enough to pay for the entire project? If so I think they are taking the p#ss with us foreigners... If not and with the construction price rising dramatically, I think they will fail. In saying that Northpoint seems to be going up quite well but still a long way to go. I would say stay away but then I was wrong with Northshore.

[moo9]

Northpoint seems to be going on well. The add two level every week or so. But I got no idea what has been sold so far. To me (even considering the better quality compared with other projects), it is simply too expensive and I think that it will be quite hard to resell or find tenants who will pay more than 80,000 Baht rent a month.

[faranglandoz]

Hello Everyone is beautiful Pattaya.

I wondered what the view overall was on the Northpoint Project, Southshore and Raimon Land pedigree?

Do people believe this developer will complete the projects mentioned? If they do and others are not completed due to build cost, poor backing planning/licensing, does this not mak these projects more valuable if they are completed?

All views very welcome...I have or may have financial interests involved hence the questions................

I have 2 units in LaRoyale Beach Condo, Jom Tien. I am trying to sell one of them. I'm sure this project will get completed, but its eighteen months behind schedule. Never considered the possability that it would'nt get completed. Obviously thats a real risk in Thailand.

Faranglandoz

[loopaimod]

Hello Everyone is beautiful Pattaya.

I wondered what the view overall was on the Northpoint Project, Southshore and Raimon Land pedigree?

Do people believe this developer will complete the projects mentioned? If they do and others are not completed due to build cost, poor backing planning/licensing, does this not mak these projects more valuable if they are completed?

All views very welcome...I have or may have financial interests involved hence the questions................

I have 2 units in LaRoyale Beach Condo, Jom Tien. I am trying to sell one of them. I'm sure this project will get completed, but its eighteen months behind schedule. Never considered the possability that it would'nt get completed. Obviously thats a real risk in Thailand.

Faranglandoz

I suppose thats my point. That building started I think in 2005 or 6. They missed most of the price rise stuff apart from the last year. Think they were affected by K-Tech going out of business or something. I know the project well and I'm sure they have sold something like 80% and even they have obvious cash flow problems. How can the new buildings survive if they only sell 49%? I think even the strongest developers must be worried and purchasers of such projects are mad. Do like La Royale though. At least it was realistically priced. How much do you want for your unit?

[beginner]

I know the project well and I'm sure they have sold something like 80% and even they have obvious cash flow problems. How can the new buildings survive if they only sell 49%? I think even the strongest developers must be worried and purchasers of such projects are mad. Do like La Royale though.

At a recent inspection of the La Royale show units we were told by the salesperson that 80% of the farang quota had been sold. (Most are available from flippers if one of the more desirable units is required).

When asked what percentage of the non farang quota had been sold we were assured 'I do not know".

Later a second salesperson repeated the same answer.

We were left to speculate that the actual figure is very very round!!

[plasticpig]

New condo block + sales person + Falang = lots of Bs

think thats the equation

[basjke]

Hello Everyone is beautiful Pattaya.

I wondered what the view overall was on the Northpoint Project, Southshore and Raimon Land pedigree?

Do people believe this developer will complete the projects mentioned? If they do and others are not completed due to build cost, poor backing planning/licensing, does this not mak these projects more valuable if they are completed?

All views very welcome...I have or may have financial interests involved hence the questions................

I have 2 units in LaRoyale Beach Condo, Jom Tien. I am trying to sell one of them. I'm sure this project will get completed, but its eighteen months behind schedule. Never considered the possability that it would'nt get completed. Obviously thats a real risk in Thailand.

Faranglandoz

I suppose thats my point. That building started I think in 2005 or 6. They missed most of the price rise stuff apart from the last year. Think they were affected by K-Tech going out of business or something. I know the project well and I'm sure they have sold something like 80% and even they have obvious cash flow problems. How can the new buildings survive if they only sell 49%? I think even the strongest developers must be worried and purchasers of such projects are mad. Do like La Royale though. At least it was realistically priced. How much do you want for your unit?

Don't you think it was the other way around and that K-tech was affected by la royale running out of money.

[DonTron]

Being a very satisfied owner of several condos in NorthShore and upcoming NorthPoint I can only say that so far they have been great investments well over 12% ROI. Also they management of the buildings are very good so we had no problems what so ever at NorthShore.

NorthPoint is still a really good investment because of the awesome location (total beach front) - but SouthShore is not!

I went to the presales at SouthShore and I was very disappointed (just like a lot of investors that day)

1) They chose to only open for sale of the crappy condos on the lower floors to us, and by us I mean their most faithful investors.

2) They plan to put 780 very tiny condos into SouthShore making it very unattractive.

3) The floor plans are just as horrible as The Lofts Yennakart in Bangkok.

4) They want 5.3 MILLION baht for a 30 Sqm STUDIO facing a brick wall!! This made one of the investors come up with a joke on Raimonlands slogan (live in paradise) that it would only be true if Paradise was paying 160.000 Bath/Sqm to look into a brick wall :-D

5) Finally and most important, I ran the numbers on 6 different condos using their suggestions for monthly rents, and this gave a ROI between 5.22% and 6.18% which is horrible compared to NorthShore and NorthPoint.

My money is on Waterfront!

[lemel]

I have 2 units in LaRoyale Beach Condo, Jom Tien. I am trying to sell one of them. I'm sure this project will get completed, but its eighteen months behind schedule. Never considered the possability that it would'nt get completed. Obviously thats a real risk in Thailand.

Faranglandoz

I heard that was why a lot of Real Estate agent would not touch it!!!! the owner already has a reputation in Bangkok and had to come here!!!!!

[raro]

I've been to a function in the NorthShore Penthouse on the topfloor a while ago. The asking price was 40 Mio baht, or 1 Mio USD at that time.

I was stunned to see that tiles had cracks, the stainless steel staircase to the upper floor had welding marks that looked quite unprofessional and the build-in furniture was made from laminated cardboard coasters...

[faranglandoz]

Hello Everyone is beautiful Pattaya.

I wondered what the view overall was on the Northpoint Project, Southshore and Raimon Land pedigree?

Do people believe this developer will complete the projects mentioned? If they do and others are not completed due to build cost, poor backing planning/licensing, does this not mak these projects more valuable if they are completed?

All views very welcome...I have or may have financial interests involved hence the questions................

I have 2 units in LaRoyale Beach Condo, Jom Tien. I am trying to sell one of them. I'm sure this project will get completed, but its eighteen months behind schedule. Never considered the possability that it would'nt get completed. Obviously thats a real risk in Thailand.

Faranglandoz

I suppose thats my point. That building started I think in 2005 or 6. They missed most of the price rise stuff apart from the last year. Think they were affected by K-Tech going out of business or something. I know the project well and I'm sure they have sold something like 80% and even they have obvious cash flow problems. How can the new buildings survive if they only sell 49%? I think even the strongest developers must be worried and purchasers of such projects are mad. Do like La Royale though. At least it was realistically priced. How much do you want for your unit?

I want to keep one, I had the money for both but have put back in the OZ share market, gone down down. Have both on the market, 2 bedroom, 148 m2, 32nd floor (extra high ceiling from 32nd to 34), Pattaya side. I would like 14 mill to me. Agents price 14,900,000. List price at showroom is 15,910,000.

My 3 bedroom, 268 m2, 27th floor, I would like 24 mill to me. Agents price 25,200,000. List price at showroom is 28,408,000.

I live in Bangkok, went to see LaRoyale a couple of weeks ago. The entry and developments around ground level are very impressive. After complaining to Eric Lai, Wiseasset chairman, about the colour, they are now painting out the dark blue, back to light blue. Much better I think.

Faranglandoz

[beginner]

Hello Everyone is beautiful Pattaya.

I wondered what the view overall was on the Northpoint Project, Southshore and Raimon Land pedigree?

Do people believe this developer will complete the projects mentioned? If they do and others are not completed due to build cost, poor backing planning/licensing, does this not mak these projects more valuable if they are completed?

All views very welcome...I have or may have financial interests involved hence the questions................

Many people are asking these same questions as they consider what to do next with investment funds and profits from the boom that is now ending. Unfortunately, Pattaya is not immune from the world financial forces and the full impact has yet to be felt here in Pattaya.

No doubt that in the long term the future is bright but the next few years could be even more difficult for the property market in general.

To specifically answer your question about Raimon Land you would need some expert analysis of the following.

1. Why did Raimon need to keep raising capital right through the boom period?

2. What will be the impact of the failed attempt to raise 1.37billion baht capital by a rights issue in March/June?

3. Why is the share price what it now is? 68baht

4. Why has there been no optimistic hype about pre-sales at Southshore Lofts?

5. What does the latest letter to the stock exchange signify for the balance sheet etc? Another loan of 340,116,914 baht from IFA Hotels and Resorts.

It is perfectly possible that there are satisfactory answers and explanations to all those questions and that Raimon Land will thrive and expand as planned.

To add some negative comment.

Flippers in various buildings are trying to bail out before things get worse and just get their money back to break even. This is happening to many off plan sales in projects from Naklua right down the coast.

Southshore is regarded by many as an inferior location where even the units with views will eventually be built out.

Right now the market is going through a periodic and overdue correction. Anyone with the resources to wait long enough will eventually see the good times return.

All of course IMHO. You may believe differently.

[prospero]

Hello Everyone is beautiful Pattaya.

I wondered what the view overall was on the Northpoint Project, Southshore and Raimon Land pedigree?

Do people believe this developer will complete the projects mentioned? If they do and others are not completed due to build cost, poor backing planning/licensing, does this not mak these projects more valuable if they are completed?

All views very welcome...I have or may have financial interests involved hence the questions................

Many people are asking these same questions as they consider what to do next with investment funds and profits from the boom that is now ending. Unfortunately, Pattaya is not immune from the world financial forces and the full impact has yet to be felt here in Pattaya.

No doubt that in the long term the future is bright but the next few years could be even more difficult for the property market in general.

To specifically answer your question about Raimon Land you would need some expert analysis of the following.

1. Why did Raimon need to keep raising capital right through the boom period?

2. What will be the impact of the failed attempt to raise 1.37billion baht capital by a rights issue in March/June?

3. Why is the share price what it now is? 68baht

4. Why has there been no optimistic hype about pre-sales at Southshore Lofts?

5. What does the latest letter to the stock exchange signify for the balance sheet etc? Another loan of 340,116,914 baht from IFA Hotels and Resorts.

It is perfectly possible that there are satisfactory answers and explanations to all those questions and that Raimon Land will thrive and expand as planned.

To add some negative comment.

Flippers in various buildings are trying to bail out before things get worse and just get their money back to break even. This is happening to many off plan sales in projects from Naklua right down the coast.

Southshore is regarded by many as an inferior location where even the units with views will eventually be built out.

Right now the market is going through a periodic and overdue correction. Anyone with the resources to wait long enough will eventually see the good times return.

All of course IMHO. You may believe differently.

It's good to see you back on the planet, Beginner.

The last time I encountered your postings, you were as high as a kite about the property market here. In particular, you were singing the praises of a certain skyscraper that, according to my sources, may very well never scrape the sky.

Are you willing to lay any odds on that one?

Edited August 4, 2008 by prospero

[beginner]

The game isn't over yet.

The odds of Ocean 1 being built as planned are now probably less than fifty/fifty.

I will be very disappointed if the project fails but I am sure you will be delighted. Good luck to you.

The drawback of gloating too much over another development's problems is that we are all subject to the same underlying forces. The economic and financial tsunami that is washing around the world doesn't just affect projects we either love or hate. It impacts on everyone. Better that we all succeed than fail.

The shakeout that is overdue may stop Ocean 1 but may very well leave Ocean 1/2. After all, twenty five percent of the units have been sold. A fifty floor tower which was often discussed at the start of the project may be the final outcome.

We must all wait and see.

It will be a great opportunity lost if you are correct. To borrow Marlon Brando's words from On The Waterfront "You don't understand. Jomtien could have had class. Jomtien could have been a contender. It could have been somewhere not a bum place".

But as I said. Its not over yet!

[prospero]

The game isn't over yet.

The odds of Ocean 1 being built as planned are now probably less than fifty/fifty.

I will be very disappointed if the project fails but I am sure you will be delighted. Good luck to you.

The drawback of gloating too much over another development's problems is that we are all subject to the same underlying forces. The economic and financial tsunami that is washing around the world doesn't just affect projects we either love or hate. It impacts on everyone. Better that we all succeed than fail.

The shakeout that is overdue may stop Ocean 1 but may very well leave Ocean 1/2. After all, twenty five percent of the units have been sold. A fifty floor tower which was often discussed at the start of the project may be the final outcome.

We must all wait and see.

It will be a great opportunity lost if you are correct. To borrow Marlon Brando's words from On The Waterfront "You don't understand. Jomtien could have had class. Jomtien could have been a contender. It could have been somewhere not a bum place".

But as I said. Its not over yet!

If you know the movie, you know that the reason Terry Malloy never made it was that the fight was fixed -- by the mobster Johnny Friendly. Seems an apt comparison to Jomtien.

[beginner]

If you know the movie, you know that the reason Terry Malloy never made it was that the fight was fixed -- by the mobster Johnny Friendly. Seems an apt comparison to Jomtien.

Very good

You may very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment.

[PattayaParent]

I had read in various articles and forums that Raimon Land is a reputable company andwhen they announced that their Lofts Southshore development in Pattaya was going to be a response to the 'mid-range' pricing demand that they have encountered from interested investors in Norhshore I inquired about the prices etc.

Well for a reputable company they first told me that there was no such thing as an Escrow Law in Thailand, although it was mooted in December 2007 and came into full force in May in the new Condominium Act (I contacted them in July).

Also when I recieved pricng information for The Lofts Southshore it is as expensive as anywhere in Bangkok at 100k+ per m2.

I'd avoid any developer that doesn't want to set up an escrow account, and run away from one that tells you BS about the regulation not even existing.

Edited typos.

Edited August 4, 2008 by PattayaParent

[positiveaction]

Hmm some interesting replies...thanks...the most relevant i think is whether Thai's take up the Thai quota......I'm not sure i would under estimate the number of wealthy Thais out there .....

As they often uy for kudos at least Raimon Land has the glitz and some celebs association that Thais go for.

As for condos at these prices, my view is that I dont believe build cost are likely to fall significantly, so any future developments of quality have to pay high(er) construction costs also.....

Also for feedback the Southshore Launch was very successful and about 55 units went even though they werent the top floors and the next day they opened up higher floors which were also snapped...I know coz i tried to buy a coupd nd eventually saw what i thought was value in another unit...though the studios are a smidge overpriced!!!!!!!!!!

[Pattaya46]

The shakeout that is overdue may stop Ocean 1 but may very well leave Ocean 1/2.

After all, twenty five percent of the units have been sold.

A fifty floor tower which was often discussed at the start of the project may be the final outcome.

Hi,

Problem is that sold units (25% of foreign 49% units) are sold in high floors only.

Will they only build floors 43 to 92 ?

Lot of work for lawyers I think...