Anti - Thaksin Resentment `growing'

[george]

Anti-Thaksin resentment `growing'

Chamlong says he's under pressure from PM's foes to spearhead move to topple him

BANGKOK: -- In a revelation that indicates the undercurrent of resentment against Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra is getting dangerous, former Palang Dharma leader Chamlong Srimuang says he has lately been asked quite often to help bring down the national leader.

Maj-Gen Chamlong said that people who viewed the prime minister as an imperious leader were looking for ways to unseat him or prevent him from returning to Government House in February's general election.

Maj-Gen Chamlong, currently the prime minister's adviser on human resources development, said he had been chosen to spearhead a campaign to wear down Mr Thaksin because he was the one who brought the telecommunications tycoon into politics.

``Regarded as his political mentor, I am being held responsible. People come to see me every month and demand that I repair the damage I have done,'' he said.

Some wanted him to talk with Mr Thaksin more often, hoping he could ``cool him off'' as the prime minister still regarded him a ``casual'' critic, not ``among the regulars'', Maj-Gen Chamlong said.

Those people had vastly overestimated his own clout, he said. ``I am no longer a person Mr Thaksin listens to. I don't think he listens to anyone any more, even though the election is approaching,'' Maj-Gen Chamlong said.

It was unfortunate for Mr Thaksin that he was surrounded by many ministers whose integrity had been called into question, but the prime minister still regarded them as his right-hand men.

``I am just an outsider. There is no reason why the prime minister has to listen to me,'' he said.

Despite all the disappointments about Mr Thaksin, Maj-Gen Chamlong said, he had to disappoint the prime minister's opponents. Instead of overthrowing Mr Thaksin, he said, he would rather keep him and try to persuade him to perform good deeds for the country.

``What's the point of shouting abuse at someone while we ourselves cannot get things to be better?'' he said.

Maj-Gen Chamlong said Mr Thaksin had changed from a man of few words who stayed out of conflicts, to a man with a sharp tongue and a short fuse.

But he said he thought Mr Thaksin's perceived weak point was actually a strength.

``As he is always quick to make a comment what he says must come right from his heart and not his head, so it is not a lie,'' he said.

He said people could not afford to just drive Mr Thaksin away without thinking about who his replacement should be. As for himself, he did not see any prospective person at the moment.

Maj-Gen Chamlong believed Mr Thaksin would win re-election and return as prime minister. He said he hoped Mr Thaksin would spend the next four years in office transforming and guiding Thailand toward becoming a moral society, since the prime minister had recently declared he would bring the country and its people closer to morality.

Mr Thaksin should prove his words by ending his support for the two- and three-digit lottery sales _ a form of betting legalised by his government to beat the underground lottery racket _ and by cancelling his plans to open casinos and legalise soccer betting, Maj-Gen Chamlong said.

He said he wanted Mr Thaksin to keep an open mind on opinions different from his own to win back friends and reduce the number of enemies.

Maj-Gen Chamlong handed over the leadership of his Palang Dharma party to Mr Thaksin in the 1995 general election. The party then won 23 House seats.

--Bangkok Post 2004-11-14

[stumonster]

Anti-Thaksin resentment `growing'

He said he hoped Mr Thaksin would spend the next four years in office transforming and guiding Thailand toward becoming a moral society, since the prime minister had recently declared he would bring the country and its people closer to morality.

as long as it does not infringe on the ability of shin corp to make money. Who wants to be seen flying around in last years model airbus?

[ovenman]

While there may be resentment growing in the educated middle class against Mr. Big and his Thai Rak Thai cronies, I think a goodly number of the rural poor still think Mr. Big walks on water due to all of the handouts they have received since TRT came to power in 2001. Since there are many more of the latter than the former, I still picture TRT as being a shoo-in for the upcoming election.

[snoophound]

hmm

maybe not in the low classes

My lady and her friends say the monarchy no like him,so they no like him.

[HarryHacker]

Ovenman you are 100% correct. Tako will be relying on the un-educated, poor and rural class now that the minority of Thailand is discovering his abilities are less than was first thought of. For the people of Burifcuk, Surintin, Nakon-Nowhere a 1000 baht note handout will keep him in power. Since there are more of them he WILL win the next election.

[otherstuff1957]

That's the way I read it too. I don't think that he will win by a landslide, but he will have enough support among poor, rural voters to be re-elected fairly easily.

One factor to consider is that many young, educated Bangkok residents are disenfranchised. People vote based on their Taliban (or Tabian Baan or whatever it is) address. Many Bankok apartment dwellers officially "live" somewhere out in the provinces and would have to travel home to vote. I would guess that a large percentage of these young urban types are anti-Taksin.

[mbkudu]

This all seems a mirror image of a country in North America; base campaign on morality, win the hearts of the rural poor, use power and influence in big business to lobby=Four more years. (All he needs now are electronic voting machines and he's a sure winner)

[Ned]

The interests who want to unseat the PM just want to have their snouts in the trough instead like all the others who have run this backwater banana republic. THe country is dishonest to the core and no matter who gets elected will do what all his predecessors did.ie rip the country off to the full, kin muang (eat the state and all its wealth) and be respected in most quarters for doing so. A great pity indeed but that's just the way it is eh. I've met a lot of excellent people in my time here but getting their ideas into the political mainstream is not an option in this land of the hot headed and the brutal.

[Heng]

As if whoever gets elected next will do anything differently.

What has he done to the middle class to make them turn anti-Thaksin (apart from manipulating the stock of his own companies... which sometimes leaves a lot of day traders holding the bag, which is the status quo anywhere by the way)?

[toastwars]

As if whoever gets elected next will do anything differently.

What has he done to the middle class to make them turn anti-Thaksin (apart from manipulating the stock of his own companies... which sometimes leaves a lot of day traders holding the bag, which is the status quo anywhere by the way)?   

Try being The uber Faschist dictator that he is and arogantly asuming that everyone is so stupid in thailand that they would not notice. He gives the green light to massive corruption because he is dirty to the core, "off with his head" I say

Can the King still do that?

[Heng]

This massive corruption is something new?

Anything specific other than a broad generalization? What has he done to the middle class, not to foreigners by the way.

[marquess]

I do wish they would get rid of him, though just like Bush. I think that it is unlikely!

[stumonster]

Besides the declining purchasing power of people and the increased retail oil prices, such other negative factors as the ongoing outbreak of avian flu and the spate of violent unrest in the country's deep South have also prompted many people to start saving, as they are worried about their incomes in future, according to the Bangkok-based research house.

this is a quote from the beer garden downturn article.

and this article from the nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2004/11/14...n_15421411.html

SIDELINES: Corruption-busting could start with PM’s cronies

Published on November 14, 2004

Our CEO has yet to nail down a single big-time crook among politicians or civil servants, despite his much-proclaimed war on corruption. This is ironic, because newspaper headlines scream corruption and irregularities almost every day.

A deadlock remains over the status of Khunying Jaruwan Maintaka, Thailand’s auditor-general, after a dubious decision by the Constitutional Court, which said that her selection had been improper. But the court did not specifically say whether she should retains her royally appointed position or not.

those are only a couple of excerpts.

do these issues get discussed by middle class thais , do thai language newspapers point out these issues to their readers?

Is it understood by the middle class thais that they will be the ones who will have to pay dearly in the future for the practices of those in power in this country?

after the election when mr T floats the fuel prices , after incurring a massive debt from subsidising it - does the average thai realise the cost of living will skyrocket?

[pantarei]

This all seems a mirror image of a country in North America; base campaign on morality, win the hearts of the rural poor, use power and influence in big business to lobby=Four more years. (All he needs now are electronic voting machines and he's a sure winner)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

VOTE BY INCOME

-------------------------BUSH; KERRY; NADER

Under $15,000 (8%); 36% (Bush); 63% (Kerry); 0% (Nader)

$15-30,000 (15%); 42% (Bush); 57% (Kerry); 0%

$30-50,000 (22%); 49% (Bush); 50% (Kerry); 0%

$50-75,000 (23%); 56% (Bush); 43% (Kerry); 0%

$75-100,000 (14%); 55% (Bush); 45% (Kerry); 0%

$100-150,000 (11%); 57% (Bush); 42% (Kerry); 1%

$150-200,000 (4%); 58% (Bush); 42% (Kerry); *

$200,000 or More (3%); 63% (Bush); 35% (Kerry); 1%

Either rural poor in America earn a minimum of US$50,000/yr or you are an ignoramus. FYI, 36<63; 42<57; 49<50; 56>43, etc.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/res...0/epolls.0.html

[Covertjay]

Do Thais have to go back to the Mu Baan to vote or can they vote in the city now?

This could be the key to getting rid of Taksin!

Anyone know?

[HarryHacker]

They still have to go back.

[Dradam]

This all seems a mirror image of a country in North America; base campaign on morality, win the hearts of the rural poor, use power and influence in big business to lobby=Four more years. (All he needs now are electronic voting machines and he's a sure winner)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

VOTE BY INCOME

-------------------------BUSH; KERRY; NADER

Under $15,000 (8%); 36% (Bush); 63% (Kerry); 0% (Nader)

$15-30,000 (15%); 42% (Bush); 57% (Kerry); 0%

$30-50,000 (22%); 49% (Bush); 50% (Kerry); 0%

$50-75,000 (23%); 56% (Bush); 43% (Kerry); 0%

$75-100,000 (14%); 55% (Bush); 45% (Kerry); 0%

$100-150,000 (11%); 57% (Bush); 42% (Kerry); 1%

$150-200,000 (4%); 58% (Bush); 42% (Kerry); *

$200,000 or More (3%); 63% (Bush); 35% (Kerry); 1%

Either rural poor in America earn a minimum of US$50,000/yr or you are an ignoramus. FYI, 36<63; 42<57; 49<50; 56>43, etc.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/res...0/epolls.0.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I enjoyed seeing those statistics. I have heard too many people argue that the poor dumb people voted for Bush. The Republican Party is a middle and upper class party. Arguments that Bush won based on the uneducated people voting are certainly incorrect.

Bush's Principles - Pro-life, Anti-homosexuality, Pro-democracy, Anti-terrorism, Pro-Business, pro-military

Kerry-s Principles - Pro-choice, Anti-Discrimination, Pro-Multilateralism, Pro-environment, Anti-war, Pro-individual, anti-military, pro-education

American people chose Bush's principles over Kerry's

Taksin could win on a similar basis. Taksin's line of thinking is very similar to Bush. It is a simple matter of selecting certain morals as having precedence of others.

[Darknight]

This all seems a mirror image of a country in North America; base campaign on morality, win the hearts of the rural poor, use power and influence in big business to lobby=Four more years. (All he needs now are electronic voting machines and he's a sure winner)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are sure many things equal to the usa in thailand. Not only the president's style, but also the dumbness of the patriotic thought, the way the profile themselves out of the thruth (face, biggest best in the us, same in los (see chicken flu)). In general dumb and proud go easy together. What most populist politcians do is cater for this crowd. Unfortunatly they represent 70 % of the population in my view.

[xbusman]

The article was very good. Imagine Chamlong having the courage to say these things in print, a very strong statement for a politician. Despite all the Thaksin bashing that is pervasive in the press and among the "intelligensia" I think Chamlong has a very pragmatic view with the following statement:

He said people could not afford to just drive Mr Thaksin away without thinking about who his replacement should be. As for himself, he did not see any prospective person at the moment.

Exactly what does wait in the wings. While you might think that Thaksin does not measure up to say....(pick your favorite political sleeze of the last decade here).... things in asia can often spiral out of hand with some pretty ugly dictators. The horrible scars of the Pol Pot regime are still visible in Cambodia today, only a few clicks away geographically and socially.

One of the early stages of a popular dictatorship is almost always the dismantling of the professional political beauracracy. This not only removes insghtful critics but also removes potential replacements. This professional political class is often cast as the cause of the all the problems and replaced quickly with junta staff. Next the foreigners are targeted and finally, last but not least, the owners and controllers of capital are led to the slaughter.

Thaksin has done a good job of disrupting the political beauracracy. I think the constant cabinet shuffles are a visible sign of this but I also see it in the recent battles over procurement and test scandals as well as the issue of bird flu responsibility. In the end, there are no opposition voices or leaders who can put together an alternative postion.

I would like to see Chamlong speak out more, its voices like these that make the most progress for the average Thai.

[siamruby]

Funny that we have to travel back home to vote if we live in LOS.But we don't need to go back if we live aboard,we can just register our votes through the embassy.

The educated Thais don't like him and yes we are the one who more likely to go to vote. Never mind who likes him if they don't bother to go to vote it will mean nothing.

Yes anyone who replaces him will screw the country up just the same but will take a while before he can stop pretending to be a nice honest politician and then learning how to rip the country up properly while toxin now is in full swing of doing it.

[stumonster]

from the nation newspaper today.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2004/11/16...s_15437296.html

Debt balloons under Village Fund scheme, survey finds

Published on November 16, 2004

Rural household debt rose 20 per cent from 2000 to an average of Bt84,603 in 2002 while incomes stagnated, according to a study on the government’s controversial Village Fund programme.

The debt-to-income ratio increased to 6.1-to-1 in 2002 from 5.7-to-1 in 2000, said the head of the research team, Wichai Turong-pun, economist at the School of Development Economics, National Institute of Development Administra-tion.

The fundamental objectives of the Village Fund programme are sound and supportable, but implementation needs closer scrutiny and monitoring, he said.

The study findings are based on 24,447 samplings in 8,000 villages in 19 provin-ces and were presented at a seminar on public-policy monitoring, held at Thammasat University and co-hosted by the Thai Journalists Association.

The government’s much-touted Village Fund has spent Bt75 billion to tackle poverty and generate income and opportunities for people in villages and urban communities.

and

Most recipients thought the money was a handout from Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra instead of something that had to be paid back, resulting in careless spending and poor repayment records.

surely that kind of thinking was not encouraged?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Do Thais have to go back to the Mu Baan to vote or can they vote in the city now?

This could be the key to getting rid of Taksin!

Anyone know?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They still have to go home to vote. Overseas Thai's can do it all by post, and Thai Embassies and Consulates are actively enrolling people to vote.

[mbkudu]

Either rural poor in America earn a minimum of US$50,000/yr or you are an ignoramus. FYI, 36<63; 42<57; 49<50; 56>43, etc.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/res...0/epolls.0.html

[/quote, pantarei]

I don't think I said anything about voting being related to income. I was simply stating the parallels I've seen between Thaksin and Bush's campaigning styles.

And I'm not an ignoramous, ya &lt;deleted&gt;!

[pantarei]

Either rural poor in America earn a minimum of US$50,000/yr or you are an ignoramus.  FYI, 36<63; 42<57; 49<50; 56>43, etc.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/res...0/epolls.0.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote, pantarei]

I don't think I said anything about voting being related to income. I was simply stating the parallels I've seen between Thaksin and Bush's campaigning styles.

And I'm not an ignoramous, ya &lt;deleted&gt;!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In your previous message you said:

"This all seems a mirror image of a country in North America; base campaign on morality, win the hearts of the rural poor, use power and influence in big business to lobby=Four more years. (All he needs now are electronic voting machines and he's a sure winner)"

"Rural poor" is related to income, isn’t it?

I agree, you are not an ignoramus. You are genius who cannot understand his own drivel.

[Covertjay]

It'll be ballot forms and 100 baht notes being thrown off the back of a pick up down on the Mu Baan again..... so maybe Toxin will be back.........

[mbkudu]

"Rural poor" is related to income, isn’t it?

I agree, you are not an ignoramus. You are genius who cannot understand his own drivel.

Yes, I stand corrected, you indeed are the intellectual powerhouse here.

[stumonster]

can we get back to taskin, bush has been relegated to the pit --->ThePit

[dr_Pat_Pong]

can we get back to taskin, bush has been relegated to the pit --->ThePit

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There seems to be a growing number of Thai people that would like to see H.E, P.M Dr Toxin relegated even further away than that

[Covertjay]

Do they do prefered PM polls here?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Do they do prefered PM polls here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come again ?