Olympic Gold, China Or Usa?

[LaoPo]

I'd prefer to wait and see whether there'll be a credible investigation or not. You may not want to bother.

I won't bother because its never going to happen.

You are right. The cheater babies would have been forced into this by their government. I don' t blame them personally.

A fair hearing you say? Yeah, right. What other Chinese propaganda do you believe?

You are a fine example of an American propaganda believer.Your quote proofs so

China, as well as the US are Masters in Propaganda and cheating and so are the Russians, Brits, French, Germans etc.

It takes maturity and growing older to realize that your born-country make 'honest' mistakes or deliberate mistakes and/or lies as well....

You're obviously not that far yet but when you grow older you'll learn.

Don't panic and don't shout so loud in Chinese Red ! Your mother didn't teach you to shout, did she ?

Grow up boy.

LaoPo

[HASSELHOFF]

I've watched pretty much all the major events (as well as most of the non-major ones), and I did watch the gymnastics.

What I can say is... He Kexin is an amazing athlete

I did know about this controversy too about her age. She probably is just 14, which makes her performances that bit better for me Great athlete.

and.. Beth Tweddle should have won a medal, I'm not a judge, but to me her performance was easily worth a gold medal, better than anyone I saw.

no rants from me though.

ps. from UK

You don't understand gymnastics if you say that, being underage gives an unfair advantage, they have more flexibility. What you admired was most likely a cheating performance. In Greece, the Americans had some underage probable gold medal winners and they followed the rules and didn't get those golds. Is China so special they get to make up their own rules?

You actually believe most of the stuff you write?

Your start your thread as a medal tally thread then you change it to attack there government and calling this girl a cheat and a baby? Its pathetic.

I thought you were just a little different from reading your other topics. But seriously after reading this I just cant take you seriously anymore

Edited August 22, 2008 by HASSELHOFF

[cophen]

I'd prefer to wait and see whether there'll be a credible investigation or not. You may not want to bother.

I won't bother because its never going to happen.

So you admit to being a man with a closed mind? Shame on you.

[koheesti]

You are a fine example of an American propaganda believer.Your quote proofs so

China, as well as the US are Masters in Propaganda and cheating and so are the Russians, Brits, French, Germans etc.

It takes maturity and growing older to realize that your born-country make 'honest' mistakes or deliberate mistakes and/or lies as well....

You're obviously not that far yet but when you grow older you'll learn.

Don't panic and don't shout so loud in Chinese Red ! Your mother didn't teach you to shout, did she ?

Grow up boy.

LaoPo

So you are saying the Chinese should be allowed to get away with whatever they want because other countries cheat/have cheated? All might be cheaters but our suspected athletes are investigated and punished if found guilty. Why are people afraid of China? Because they might stop buying cheeseburgers? I hope the IOC learns and stops letting totlitarian regimes host the Games. Next step is to move them from Sochi.

Edited August 23, 2008 by koheesti

[Jingthing]

I'd prefer to wait and see whether there'll be a credible investigation or not. You may not want to bother.

I won't bother because its never going to happen.

So you admit to being a man with a closed mind? Shame on you.

You obviously didn't read my explanation.

[Jingthing]

I'd prefer to wait and see whether there'll be a credible investigation or not. You may not want to bother.

I won't bother because its never going to happen.

You are right. The cheater babies would have been forced into this by their government. I don' t blame them personally.

A fair hearing you say? Yeah, right. What other Chinese propaganda do you believe?

You are a fine example of an American propaganda believer.Your quote proofs so

China, as well as the US are Masters in Propaganda and cheating and so are the Russians, Brits, French, Germans etc.

It takes maturity and growing older to realize that your born-country make 'honest' mistakes or deliberate mistakes and/or lies as well....

You're obviously not that far yet but when you grow older you'll learn.

Don't panic and don't shout so loud in Chinese Red ! Your mother didn't teach you to shout, did she ?

Grow up boy.

LaoPo

Mr. Po,

Did I say that propaganda only comes from China? No. But we are now talking about China. We are now talking about a country without free protest, without a free internet, without a free press. We are now talking about a government that murdered its own people in tiananmen square, we are now talking about country that took over Tibet and calls that great man of PEACE the Dalai Lama a DEVIL, we are now talking about a country that props up an even worse government than China: the murdering Burmese generals, we are now talking about a country that in its greedy lust for more gold medals forces little girls to lie to the world. That country is CHINA. How can you deny any of these truths about CHINA?

And do you seriously believe, a country like this, a country that is modern day China, which indeed is now scaring the world against taking any action to free the people of Burma, is going to cooperate with the little bitty Olympic Committee and allow a legitimate investigation about not just one, but 4 of the "gold" medal winning "women's" Chinese Olympic team? Is anyone really that naive?

Edited August 23, 2008 by Jingthing

[mr_hippo]

Did I say that propaganda only comes from China? No. But we are now talking about China. We are now talking about a country without free protest, without a free internet, without a free press. We are now talking about a government that murdered its own people in tiananmen square, we are now talking about country that took over Tibet, we are now talking about a country that props up an even worse government than China: the murdering Burmese generals, we are now talking about a country that in its greedy lust for more gold medals forces little girls to lie to the world. That country is CHINA. How can you deny any of these truths about CHINA?

You talk about 'murdering its own people'. Refresh my memory - what did happen to all those Native Americans? Freedom - doe this extend to elections? Remember the rigged 2004 Presidential election?

[Jingthing]

Did I say that propaganda only comes from China? No. But we are now talking about China. We are now talking about a country without free protest, without a free internet, without a free press. We are now talking about a government that murdered its own people in tiananmen square, we are now talking about country that took over Tibet, we are now talking about a country that props up an even worse government than China: the murdering Burmese generals, we are now talking about a country that in its greedy lust for more gold medals forces little girls to lie to the world. That country is CHINA. How can you deny any of these truths about CHINA?

You talk about 'murdering its own people'. Refresh my memory - what did happen to all those Native Americans? Freedom - doe this extend to elections? Remember the rigged 2004 Presidential election?

Talking about RECENT history, mate. We also are not talking here about US election irregularities (2000 was a doozy!). The topic is MODERN CHINA.

Edited August 23, 2008 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I've watched pretty much all the major events (as well as most of the non-major ones), and I did watch the gymnastics.

What I can say is... He Kexin is an amazing athlete

I did know about this controversy too about her age. She probably is just 14, which makes her performances that bit better for me Great athlete.

and.. Beth Tweddle should have won a medal, I'm not a judge, but to me her performance was easily worth a gold medal, better than anyone I saw.

no rants from me though.

ps. from UK

You don't understand gymnastics if you say that, being underage gives an unfair advantage, they have more flexibility. What you admired was most likely a cheating performance. In Greece, the Americans had some underage probable gold medal winners and they followed the rules and didn't get those golds. Is China so special they get to make up their own rules?

You actually believe most of the stuff you write?

Your start your thread as a medal tally thread then you change it to attack there government and calling this girl a cheat and a baby? Its pathetic.

I thought you were just a little different from reading your other topics. But seriously after reading this I just cant take you seriously anymore

Funny, I never took YOU seriously. Your posts to me are the mosquito buzzing in your ear that won't die.

[mr_hippo]

Talking about RECENT history, mate. We also are not talking here about US election irregularities (2000 was a doozy!). The topic is MODERN CHINA.

OK, if you insist on talking about recent history, why have you mentioned Tibet? Tibet has never been an internationally recognised sovereign state since the early days of the Qing dynasty. The topic (or should I say your topic) is on who will win the most gold medals and not about modern China.

[HASSELHOFF]

Talking about RECENT history, mate. We also are not talking here about US election irregularities (2000 was a doozy!). The topic is MODERN CHINA.

OK, if you insist on talking about recent history, why have you mentioned Tibet? Tibet has never been an internationally recognised sovereign state since the early days of the Qing dynasty. The topic (or should I say your topic) is on who will win the most gold medals and not about modern China.

You both off topic, its about who will win more medals. jingjing always gets way to sensitive over every topic.

[Jingthing]

Scratch that, Hassle.

Most LEGITIMATE medals.

(Earned without cheating and lying, Chinese style)

Another comment on why Mr. Po doesn't have a good point defending Chinese propaganda by saying the US has propaganda. The US does have propaganda, from the government, from media like Fox News which might as well be a media organ of the government, and others. It also has ten of thousands of ALTERNATIVE FREE voices which are allowed by the government. COMPARE TO CHINA!

Edited August 23, 2008 by Jingthing

[LaoPo]

The topic is MODERN CHINA.

Your topic is called Olympic Gold, China Or Usa?

Problems with your memory ?

Your completely ignorant and know NOTHING about the history of China. Go and study it first, then we talk.

My last words.

LaoPo

[Jingthing]

The topic is MODERN CHINA.

Your topic is called Olympic Gold, China Or Usa?

Problems with your memory ?

Your completely ignorant and know NOTHING about the history of China. Go and study it first, then we talk.

My last words.

LaoPo

As threads are wont to do, because of the baby cheaters, the topic did drift to the politics of modern China. You insult me but you refuse to acknowledge or deny the points I made about present day TOTALITARIAN China. I am supposed to respect that response? Not hardly.

To repeat:

But we are now talking about China. We are now talking about a country without free protest, without a free internet, without a free press. We are now talking about a government that murdered its own people in tiananmen square, we are now talking about country that took over Tibet and calls that great man of PEACE the Dalai Lama a DEVIL, we are now talking about a country that props up an even worse government than China: the murdering Burmese generals, we are now talking about a country that in its greedy lust for more gold medals forces little girls to lie to the world. That country is CHINA. How can you deny any of these truths about CHINA?

Your last words? Fine. You offer nothing original that we can't get from the PRC propaganda machine. Yes, China is big and mighty and important and powerful and has 1.3 billion people, but it also has a government that deserves ALOT of criticism. If this isn't possible WITHIN China, at least the rest of the world can speak the truth of it.

Edited August 23, 2008 by Jingthing

[Naam]

it is also a well known fact that China has been condemned unanimously by the "international community" for invading Viet Nam, Afghanistan and Iraq and killing a few million (mostly innocent civilians). i therefore second the Right Honourable Jingthing, Esq. (ret.) and support his efforts to topple this evil marxist government and their Nazi-style violation of human rights (insulting a Lady by adding two years to her age).

i say DOWN WITH CHINA! what is badly needed are cruise missiles, cluster bombs and land mines to teach "them" a lesson they won't forget!

[Jingthing]

it is also a well known fact that China has been condemned unanimously by the "international community" for invading Viet Nam, Afghanistan and Iraq and killing a few million (mostly innocent civilians). i therefore second the Right Honourable Jingthing, Esq. (ret.) and support his efforts to topple this evil marxist government and their Nazi-style violation of human rights (insulting a Lady by adding two years to her age).

i say DOWN WITH CHINA! what is badly needed are cruise missiles, cluster bombs and land mines to teach "them" a lesson they won't forget!

The fact that they call themselves communist is of little import. The reality of their regime has almost nothing to do with the idealistic principles of Marxist theory. Totalitarianism comes to us with many labels and flavors, but in the end for the people living under it, it is much the same.

BTW, personally throughout my life I have loved my encounters with Chinese cultures, Chinese people, Chinese food, but I am only talking about the PRC GOVERNMENT here. Not anti-Chinese people.

Edited August 23, 2008 by Jingthing

[mr_hippo]

As threads are wont to do, because of the baby cheaters, the topic did drift to the politics of modern China. You insult me but you refuse to acknowledge or deny the points I made about present day TOTALITARIAN China. I am supposed to respect that response? Not hardly.

You are being a total prat and a hypocrite! If someone says something that you disagree with then you cry 'It's off topic' but if you go off topic then the thread has drifted! If you want to talk about modern China then start another thread about it - when you have gained sufficient knowledge and not before.

"You [LaoPo] refuse to acknowledge or deny the points..." and you, thingthing, do exactly the same by crying 'off topic'. You can't have it both ways!

Now, be a good boy and run along to get someone to help you untie the knots that you've tied yourself in!

[Jingthing]

It simple, really.

The topic did start as a simple sports based medals poll.

Now we are near the end of the games, and we know who will win the medals contest, China in gold, USA in total medals.

However, news happened as it does sometimes.

The truth is becoming clear about the cheating the baby China girl gymnasts did, who were obviously forced to do so by their high pressure government.

Now we know the IOC isn't capable of conducting a real investigation of this cheating because they are not dealing with an ethical player, the PRC.

So the topic naturally transitioned to the politics of China and the politics of these Olympic games, in China. If you don't want to discuss it, go away, but stop the personal attacks.

China of course wanted to present a pretty picture to the world about how great everything is there. The dark reality and story behind the story got in the way of this. They can control what goes on INSIDE China, but not yet, and hopefully never can they control what we say about them OUTSIDE China. And now a toast to those sweet old ladies arrested for applying to protest in Beijing!

Edited August 23, 2008 by Jingthing

[LaoPo]

Jingythingy, why are you making a fool of yourself by adding me as a friend in your friends' list ?

I prefer to chose my own friends, with a high intellect and with mutual respect for each other.

Someone who's adding me as a friend without consulting me first is a strange character and might want to consider to visit a shrink for help.

LaoPo

[Jingthing]

Jingythingy, why are you making a fool of yourself by adding me as a friend in your friends' list ?

I prefer to chose my own friends, with a high intellect and with mutual respect for each other.

Someone who's adding me as a friend without consulting me first is a strange character and might want to consider to visit a shrink for help.

LaoPo

I think we should take this little tiff offline, comrade.

I love you

but hate your sin (defending the PRC government).

Edited August 23, 2008 by Jingthing

[mr_hippo]

So the topic naturally transitioned to the politics of China and the politics of these Olympic games, in China.

Did it or did you push it that way?

Well, it seems pretty clear now CHINA will win the most golds, and the USA will win the most overall medals.

However, I do hope CHINA is stripped of some of their golds because they CHEATED. Some of their gymnasts are so obviously UNDERAGE that it isn't even funny, so now indeed there is the beginning of an inquiry that may and should lead to the removal of some gymnastic Chinese medals.

You made it political!

[Jingthing]

Is politics dirty to you? Does it not exist? Is it not a part of the Olympic games?

[cophen]

I'd prefer to wait and see whether there'll be a credible investigation or not. You may not want to bother.

I won't bother because its never going to happen.

So you admit to being a man with a closed mind? Shame on you.

You obviously didn't read my explanation.

What explanation was that? The explanation where you're unwilling to wait to see whether there's a credible explanation but would rather pursue your personal vendetta?

[Jingthing]

I'd prefer to wait and see whether there'll be a credible investigation or not. You may not want to bother.

I won't bother because its never going to happen.

So you admit to being a man with a closed mind? Shame on you.

You obviously didn't read my explanation.

What explanation was that? The explanation where you're unwilling to wait to see whether there's a credible explanation but would rather pursue your personal vendetta?

No, sorry you can't be bothered to read the posts, but you can refer to this. The question is, do you believe the Chinese state to tell the truth if it is harmful to them, or not. I suggest if you do, you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Instead, the "inquiry" remains uncomfortably incomplete and apparently reliant on documents provided by the very people accused of cheating, the Chinese state. Even if the gymnasts receive absolution, we won't know whether to believe it.

[Pakboong]

There have been many instances of medals being stripped for cheating. The US leads all countries with 16 instances and China has never been caught cheating. Maybe they are better at it but either way, the argument on the Chinese gymnasts IMHO is a bit lame. If they in fact cheated, they will likely get caught. There are many ways to cross check their ages.

The matter of age in female athletes has to do more with puberty and the body changes due to estrogen production than anything else.

[koheesti]

There have been many instances of medals being stripped for cheating. The US leads all countries with 16 instances...

What's your source? I checked Wikipedia (which is open for users to change so you'd need to check the sources listed) and they had a much lower number (7 instance by the US - 5 of which were Marion Jones herself).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stripped_Olympic_medals

Click the link to see the list of Olympic medals stripped by the IOC, the governing body of the Olympics.

Edited August 26, 2008 by koheesti

[Pakboong]

There have been many instances of medals being stripped for cheating. The US leads all countries with 16 instances...

What's your source? I checked Wikipedia (which is open for users to change so you'd need to check the sources listed) and they had a much lower number (7 instance by the US - 5 of which were Marion Jones herself).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stripped_Olympic_medals

Click the link to see the list of Olympic medals stripped by the IOC, the governing body of the Olympics.

Every member of the relay teams were also stripped along with Jones. Jim Thorpe's medals were reinstated after his death.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Pakboong

[koheesti]

There have been many instances of medals being stripped for cheating. The US leads all countries with 16 instances...

What's your source? I checked Wikipedia (which is open for users to change so you'd need to check the sources listed) and they had a much lower number (7 instance by the US - 5 of which were Marion Jones herself).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stripped_Olympic_medals

Click the link to see the list of Olympic medals stripped by the IOC, the governing body of the Olympics.

Every member of the relay teams were also stripped along with Jones. Jim Thorpe's medals were reinstated after his death.

I figured that's what you were thinking when I looked at the totals. Their individual medals were taken away because one of them cheated. It's misleading & simply not fair to say the other team members had their medals stripped because they themselves cheated. If one person on the team cheats, the entire team forfeits their medals.

Also, team medals only count for one medal in the tables. Too bad too because with all the team Gold medals the USA won with Mens & Womens Basketball, Womens Football, Volleyball, etc, we would have blown out the Chinese by over 50 Gold medals. Dang.

Edited August 28, 2008 by koheesti