How Can Smart People Be Superstitious?

[lifeisrandom]

so i hear thaskin is burying a lucky flower or something under the manchester city field to make his team lucky, and i remember him and other prominant Thai officials consulting fortune tellers and i have met many many intelligent Thai people who still believe in this type of stuff. it causes a problem for me because only morons believe in this stuff. now my GF says "This condo is not good because its infront of a temple and thats bad luck."...Great, babe.

[ourmaninbangers]

so i hear thaskin is burying a lucky flower or something under the manchester city field to make his team lucky, and i remember him and other prominant Thai officials consulting fortune tellers and i have met many many intelligent Thai people who still believe in this type of stuff. it causes a problem for me because only morons believe in this stuff. now my GF says "This condo is not good because its infront of a temple and thats bad luck."...Great, babe.

well, you got this one right

all religion is basicly a complete lot of nonsense, desigined to control people, to help those who want to bring something in to their dull, boring, robot like existance lifes because theirs are so lacking- and so, they meet God, yippee, poor little lamb has found something!

" oh, but it will be better when I go to heavan..."

oh please, How can any level headed people want to believe such crap? A want to do so shows a weakness in charecter.They are one of the sheep.

I love the book, "the christ conspiracy", read it, ask any christian to answer a few of the questions poised, they cannot, not properly, not logicly

you,ll hear the usual pathetic " I have faith" " we have a special relationship" but simply cannot answer the questions.

Steve pavlina has got it right too, read his blog.

See the light and free yourself from those chain,s.

[Dustoff]

Come on folks, these are pretty harsh statements, don't you think?

Given the popularity of various religions throughout the world, I don't think we can say so simply that it is the realm of only morons or stupid people.

Are you referring to the book, The God Delusion? An excellent read.

I think it is obvious that the majority of we humans are simply afraid to break with ancient beliefs and superstitions, no matter how much knowledge we collect. I fortunately, was not brought up with a concept of a deity but can sympathize with others who had religion/superstition drilled into them from very early ages - and understand that this kind of relentless indoctrination is very difficult to shed.

I find it a bit funny that if you take ten people with varying beliefs in supernatural beings, each will consider their's logical and reasonable and the other's beliefs mere mythology or superstition. Try inviting a Christian to discuss Christian Mythology and watch their eyebrows go up and down...

Written language is still very new in our timeline and the way we passed on our traditions and teachings were through stories, legends and myth. The key here is that we are still very much in that stage of our evolution...

Edited August 11, 2008 by Dustoff

[petecooper]

so i hear thaskin is burying a lucky flower or something under the manchester city field to make his team lucky, and i remember him and other prominant Thai officials consulting fortune tellers and i have met many many intelligent Thai people who still believe in this type of stuff. it causes a problem for me because only morons believe in this stuff. now my GF says "This condo is not good because its infront of a temple and thats bad luck."...Great, babe.

This is exactly like asking how any intelligent person can be religious - just another collection of superstitions anyway. Anyone who has thought critically about any of this cannot intelligently sustain these unfounded beliefs, whether it's about opening an umbrella indoors or talking to your imaginary friend in the sky.

[Heng]

It's all part of the game. Just because you partake in the traditions doesn't mean you have all of your eggs in that one basket. Thaksin has a fortune teller, but it doesn't mean that he just went home after having his fortune told and hoped that someone would build up a telecoms empire for him. The Halliburton folks who go to church every Sunday probably didn't just "pray to God" that one day there would be a war (or two) where they could provide a good amount of the support services and that "God" would grant them a bunch of contracts.

This is unlike the general populace, who often do bet the farm on religion and superstition. If you buy lottery tickets or sit around complaining about the government (both examples of waiting around for "external" forces... not unlike karma, luck, or God... to affect your life), guess which group you're a member of.

Edited August 11, 2008 by Heng

[mgjackson69]

I am with you on organized religion...it is all just a story.

About the funniest argument that I have heard is, "Well, if there is not Heaven after our life here, then what is the use of us being here?" <deleted>?

My response is "We are born, we live, we die, we are worm food".

[kiakaha]

Humans are an extremely primitive species.Essentially we are just a bunch of warring tribes whose premise for mayhem and destruction is our primitive, baseless belief systems(religion). I'm sure there are more advanced lifeforms in the universe who laugh at our cerebral inadequacies.

[BigSnake]

Maybe they are smart enough to know that anything is possible.

[lifeisrandom]

It's all part of the game. Just because you partake in the traditions doesn't mean you have all of your eggs in that one basket. Thaksin has a fortune teller, but it doesn't mean that he just went home after having his fortune told and hoped that someone would build up a telecoms empire for him. The Halliburton folks who go to church every Sunday probably didn't just "pray to God" that one day there would be a war (or two) where they could provide a good amount of the support services and that "God" would grant them a bunch of contracts.

This is unlike the general populace, who often do bet the farm on religion and superstition. If you buy lottery tickets or sit around complaining about the government (both examples of waiting around for "external" forces... not unlike karma, luck, or God... to affect your life), guess which group you're a member of.

i am not sure if you are saying its just for show or not, but i do believe that these people believe in it. if only a little, its still strange. i guess old habits are hard to kick

[kiakaha]

i'd say alot of religious/superstitious practice is for face/social acceptance/family acceptance/community acceptance ie: heaven's fordib should the US president not be a church goer, think of all the lost votes

[mgjackson69]

i'd say alot of religious/superstitious practice is for face/social acceptance/family acceptance/community acceptance ie: heaven's fordib should the US president not be a church goer, think of all the lost votes

Exactly so...In the US Presidential elections in 1960 it was even an issue that John F. Kennedy was Catholic.

[mgjackson69]

Maybe they are smart enough to know that anything is possible.

Hmmmm, maybe so.

I tend to hold to this belief, that anything is possible, and that there are things that happen that cannot be explained by science (at least, as we have defined it).

[GuestHouse]

I see the TV Theologists are gathering down the shallow end again.

[mmushr00m]

You know why the condo infront of a temple is no good???

'cos depending on the wind direction, the smoke from the cremations get blown into your condo!!!!!

[simon43]

Well, I'm not superstitious and nor am I religious. But I think you are looking at this issue from purely a Western perspective. How do you know that burying a flower will not bring luck? How do you know that ghosts don't exist? I could argue (from a Thai perspective) that only MORONS don't believe in ghosts or lucky flowers! How stupid can you be not to believe in ghosts <deleted>!!

It all depends on your upbringing and beliefs. Each one is absolutely valid and true in the eye of the believer.

Simon

[neek]

You know why the condo infront of a temple is no good???

'cos depending on the wind direction, the smoke from the cremations get blown into your condo!!!!!

Interesting point, and not immediately obvious to myself. Makes me wonder which temples actually have cremations happen at them? All of them? Apart from cremation dust pollution, I'd imagine there's all sorts of noise pollution and traffic congestion associated with templates, too.

To belabor some possibly obvious points... It seems to me that what a lot of people call 'superstition' is just good old common sense, and often seems quite tongue in cheek when viewed objectively. Opening an umbrella indoors is likely to lead to things being knocked over. Walking under a ladder is likely to lead to things being dropped on you, with possibly disastrous results. Enough hearsay and conjecture and 'I know of a friend of a friend' stories will lead to inventiveness and elaboration on each retelling, coloured by what the teller is trying to overlay onto the story. Combine this with well meaning education of children (or those of supposed lesser education, or those the teller wants to control) leads to stories becoming rules. This seems to be where religion began. I really should read The God Delusion

It is very difficult for those without 'faith' to understand how other maintain such rock solid beliefs. I agree with what has already been posted here; the twin factors of indoctrination from a very young age, and maintainance of face in a community. Extend this by a few hundred generations. People misleading other people, throughout the ages.

[teacup]

I don’t know about other superstitious things,... but I do believe in the fungshui principles. It’s all about balancing.

I’m a practicing architect,….you would be surprised of how often many americans are demanding that their houses needed to be fungshui right. So not just the asians only.

It’s all about using commonsense to improve your odd for better living through the designs, and is widely known and practiced principles among architects and urban planners esp in residential and civic designs.

Edited August 11, 2008 by teacup

[sylviex]

It's all part of the game.

Agree. Superstitions can be a fun part of your culture/subculture; you reaffirm that you belong to the group when you invoke one.

In some places, ignoring superstitions might be akin to facing the wrong way in the elevator.

Sometimes superstitions play on deep fears about breaking taboos -- even devout atheists, who have decided to "bet" against the existence of hel_l*, might hesitate before deleting that chain email that warns of doom and disaster if not passed on to 7 friends. Have you never felt the exciting throb of defiance and daring when you sent such email to the trash bin ?

What are examples of superstitions some Thais take seriously ?

(* superstitious software won't allow religious terminology !)

PS - I am wondering why the OP wishes to shack up with a "moron".

Edited August 11, 2008 by sylviex

[Pakboong]

I know some really smart folks who claim they believe a guy named Noah built this really big boat........

[cloudhopper]

The answer depends on how you define smart.

[kmart]

Religion is still a massive cohesive force in most societies in the world. Remove it and replace it with what, exactly? Unfortunately, not everyone on the planet can be "educated". Some people have to make your clothes and sports shoes.

[sylviex]

Religion is still a massive cohesive force in most societies in the world. Remove it and replace it with what, exactly? Unfortunately, not everyone on the planet can be "educated". Some people have to make your clothes and sports shoes.

Will education not inevitably spread ? Will the educated then have to force the less educated into slavehood ?!

[Spee]

The answer depends on how you define smart.

Methinks some people may be confusing terms like superstitions, beliefs, and intelligence.

Superstition is an irrational belief of an occurence not related to normal events. Catholicism or other religion may be interpreted as superstition by an atheist, but as a belief by a person practicing the faith. The Catholic and atheist may be or may not be intelligent with no bearing on superstitions or beliefs.

To keep this Thailand related, I think I probably have developed more superstitions over the past 5-10 years and part of that is due to my relationship with my Thai partner and learning more about the Thai way of life, Thai culture, etc. At the same time, I doubt that any of this has affected my core beliefs or my overall intelligence.

I know one thing for sure. After getting over serious illness a while ago, and growing to learn and accept things in Thai culture, I don't screw around with karma and I'm more respectful of superstitions and beliefs about death, the after-life, etc. Live and let live. It is what it is. Mai bpen rai. Etc., etc., etc.

[Moonrakers]

I can't seem to access you-tube at work, but if you have a search you will find several videos on there of "The atheists nightmare".

The video's go on to say that because a Banana is shaped as it is, I.E: A convenient shape and easy to peel for us humans then it MUST dis-prove the theory of evolution!. The reasoning being that the Bananas MUST have been placed their by god specifically for us.

Of course the easy response to that is that Bananas EVOLVED to be the way they are, quite simple really.

What struck me about the videos is the absolute blind faith that these people have, and that the banana PROVED as FACT that god exists, and that all other arguments or theories are absolutely incorrect. The way that these seemingly intelligent people are so taken in by this "Atheists nightmare" story is quite astounding.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

unfortunately i experience this too, in my immediate family (that of my Thai boyfriend, that is). Both him, his sister and his mother are virtually married to fortune tellers, NOTHING is done without the advise of a fortune teller.

This creates all sorts of delays and misses - a very good land deal has been missed because the fortune teller said it would be bad to buy that before September, well the person selling it wanted the money NOW and got it - from someone else...... a new car that we are planning to buy must have a certain colour that neither him nor me like but which is what the fortune teller says, also of course it can not be bought on certain days or at certain times......

Then of course the weekly questions "will i have success in my job", "will i catch a cold" or "will i step in dog shit".

Oh, and every other day he calls his mum to tell her what he dreamed about the night before, for her to run to the fortune teller to have the dream's meaning explained.

And last week one evening, on the way home, i had to avoid another motorbike and almost collided with a soi dog, which in turn took the offense and bit my boyfriend's foot - of course he was on the phone half an hour later with his mum and the next morning had the fortune teller's report that that was a "lucky dog" and it biting him means that he will soon win the lottery - or something to that context.

Of course the whole family deeply believes in ghosts and such are seen just about everywhere - except for when i am present. The fortune teller says "that farang don't believe in it so they stay away from him". Too bad - should they exist, showing themselves to me would be a smart way to make me believe, wouldn't it?? Maybe Thai ghosts don't apply logic.

At least we can have the car in any colour that we want, as long as we make a "donation" to the fortune teller and have a ritual at some temple, followed by a bumper sticker that says "this car is actually golden". And yes, there are plenty of cars with such stickers on them

Best regards.....

Thanh

[Moonrakers]

At least we can have the car in any colour that we want, as long as we make a "donation" to the fortune teller and have a ritual at some temple, followed by a bumper sticker that says "this car is actually golden". And yes, there are plenty of cars with such stickers on them

Best regards.....

Thanh

My wife has pointed these stickers out to me several times.

Another example of extreme superstition was when I was once in Buri-Ram with my ex.

I had been there for a few weeks and we decided that we would go for a night out in town. Having been in the sticks with not much to do but drink beer Chang in a hamock I was looking forward to a night out.

Anyway, as luck would have it somebody managed to break some crockery whilst washing up and that was that, the whole night was called off because something terrible was going to happen.

What amazed me even more was that the next day, it was said that the fact that nothing bad happened PROVED as FACT that we where right to stay in after the 'omen', and that it PROVED as FACT that should we have gone out that something awful would have happened.

I took this as a cue to open another bottle of chang.

[soic]

I find it hard to believe that few non-believers can set about saying that all religions are false, and that belief and faith are merely superstition. Personally, I'm open to accept a person's faith in their religion, it's their's and not mine to criticize. For those that adamantly feel the need to decry their disbelief, then forever hold to it. Don't be the first to call upon "the one" that doesn't exist when a family member or yourself are in dire straights. Don't use the semblance of his name in your cursing or daily language. Personally, I'm going to keep an open mind about religions, all religions, I can't prove them wrong, neither can I prove them right. Historically, the Bible is more correct than wrong, there are disparities, it was written by human hand. The Big Bang theory has many truths about it too, but it too is flawed, you can ask any serious astronomer and physicist and they will tell you that the big bang theory and the expansion of the universe are also flawed, they too were written by human hand. It's all basically our human attempt to explain the unexplainable. Many people do it in many different ways... it's no ones right, to say that anyone is wrong or stupid for choosing the explanation that best fits them. The bottom line is, there is either some higher diety or being that has all the answers, or theres not. I can guarantee one thing, there's no human alive today that has them all here now. I'm not pretending to know anything... I'm writing from my own point of view, and about my own beliefs. You all are free to believe or disbelieve what you want... I merely choose to leave my options open... and not pass judgement on others because their beliefs are different than mine. Saying someone elses beliefs are false without evidence is wrong... people shouldn't always have to prove they're right, take the initiative, and prove that they're wrong.

[HASSELHOFF]

so i hear thaskin is burying a lucky flower or something under the manchester city field to make his team lucky, and i remember him and other prominant Thai officials consulting fortune tellers and i have met many many intelligent Thai people who still believe in this type of stuff. it causes a problem for me because only morons believe in this stuff. now my GF says "This condo is not good because its infront of a temple and thats bad luck."...Great, babe.

So what your trying to say is that your wife is a moron?

All Thai's are morons?

Einstein is not smart?

And you know what happens when you die?

And who is the Moron

[GuestHouse]

Keep in mind that the person buring this flower is Thaksin - Nothing he does in the public eye is done without a thought to his constituancy of the semi-litterate argicultural voters in Thailand - Here burying a flower, elswere kissing the ground when he comes into Thailand.

The single biggest misbelief here is on the part of the Thai voters who believe the garbage he puts out to pull the necessary strings in order to get his snout back in the money trough.

[Spee]

Keep in mind that the person buring this flower is Thaksin - Nothing he does in the public eye is done without a thought to his constituancy of the semi-litterate argicultural voters in Thailand - Here burying a flower, elswere kissing the ground when he comes into Thailand.

The single biggest misbelief here is on the part of the Thai voters who believe the garbage he puts out to pull the necessary strings in order to get his snout back in the money trough.

This is so true in my limited experience. My partner, her family and other people with whom I've become acquainted in her central region village absolutely adore and revere this man. She has said this was due to Thaksin's party implementing a lot of infrastructure improvements in the area along with some jobs and money which helped to boost the local economy. On the surface these seem like perfectly valid reasons, but I don't think that she or others understand or would accept or believe the level of corruption involved, or how these practices eventually hold the country back instead of helping it move forward.