How Can Smart People Be Superstitious?

[Samuian]

"How Can Smart People Be Superstitious"?

When this Topic flashed across my perceptors... immediately the question arose:

...why would smart People ask such questions?

[kedawi]

You may have noticed the Thailand is lacking in certain things...universal education, general standard of living, universal medical care, high wages, good communications strong financial stability etc etc....well in the end if you try to run a country on the basis of astrology,fortune tellers and animistic mumbo-jumbo the end result is you will miss out on various things.

America too is losing the plot and turning away from rationalised thought......

Ron and Nancy Reagan used to consult an astrologist....look at the state of their country.

If for one reason or another you turn away from empirical thought the results are more or less inevitable.

[soic]

My interest in the whole debate is not about whether superstitious or religious beliefs are based in fact or not. My interest is in the determination to say that those who believe are stupid or ignorant. Without having 100% verification or confirmation either way, it seems to me, that it is both stupid and ignorant to pass an uninformed judgement. In other words, we can argue, quote books, point fingers, make jokes or whatever... and at the end of the day, no one is going to be able to completely discount the other's beliefs. Is it? was it? could it have happened? who's to positively say? Odds are... maybe... and probably.... are not facts. If we look at the picture as a whole... and place ourselves on either end of the spectrum, belief or disbelief... we should ask ourselves "what if I'm the one who's wrong?" what do we stand to gain or lose personally? So, for me... I say live and let live and I refuse to say that either side is stupid or ignorant. I'm wasn't gifted with the knowledge of the universe or it's 100% undeniable manifestations... were you?

[poshthai]

so i hear thaskin is burying a lucky flower or something under the manchester city field to make his team lucky, and i remember him and other prominant Thai officials consulting fortune tellers and i have met many many intelligent Thai people who still believe in this type of stuff. it causes a problem for me because only morons believe in this stuff. now my GF says "This condo is not good because its infront of a temple and thats bad luck."...Great, babe.

is your gf smart then,cos thaksin aint very smart he got caught

[Heng]

He got caught but I think a good % of people in the world would trade places with him to enjoy the ride he's had (and the likely will continue to enjoy with slightly less funds).

[garro]

I believe that the truly smart people realise that we actually know very little and so are less certain about reality.

[poshthai]

He will live the rest of his life looking behind him and the money thats been left behind is astronomica,but better than imprisonment.

[Heng]

He will live the rest of his life looking behind him and the money thats been left behind is astronomica,but better than imprisonment.

Is that how you would feel?

It all depends on how he looks at it. He might slip into depression and dream about what once was. Or he might look at it like... 'better than going the way of Benazir' (could have easily been), or 'at least I'm better off than I was when all I had was that 2 million Baht used Mercedes I brought back with me from college.'

I know for myself, I've taken considerable business losses on more than a few occasions, but I quickly remember that I used to ride non-airconditioned buses and took a sack lunch to work to save 20-30 Baht.

It's all relative.

[AmeriThai]

I believe that the truly smart people realise that we actually know very little and so are less certain about reality.

Reality is an individual perception that varies in detail from person to person that can change as newer knowledge is acquired. Some people may perceive superstition as part of their reality, but it seems to apply more to behavior (a social thing) rather than knowledge in the broader sense. "Don't do that or the boogyman will get you!" Superstition can also be a handy excuse to shift blame when things don't go right.

[dogleg]

My GFs son's bedroom went from a twin room to a single because she wouldnt let him sleep with his head towards where the sun had set. Bad Luck!

[Deke]

My take is that it's not a matter of "smartness" but a matter of critical thinking. People everywhere are led to accept certain things just because their parents, and their grandparents, etc. believed them to be true. That a lot of it could be nonsense never occurs to them.

[CaptHaddock]

People, even smart ones, tend to get superstitious about events over which they have insufficient control. The classic example, for those acquainted with American baseball, is the difference between hitters and fielders. Hitting a baseball is very hard even for the pros, who can manage it much less than a third of the times they are "at bat." Therefore, we can expect a high degree of supersitition and we find it. Batters are known to have many superstitions, swinging their favorite bat a certain number of times before coming to the plate, touching their helmets in a certain way, wearing lucky socks, etc. etc. Fielding, i.e. catching the ball, is not so hard for the pros. A competent pro catches the ball almost every time he gets the chance. Fielders are not known for displaying supersititious behavior. They don't need to, competence is enough.

The behaviorist psychologist, B. F. Skinner, did an interesting experiment with pigeons. He put them in a cage with buttons to press and a chute for the delivery of food items. He would then release food to the pigeons when they discovered pre-determined sequences of button-presses, such as the left button twice and then the right button. The pigeons discovered the sequences pretty well. Then he did a really interesting thing. He started delivering the food items at random. So there was no unknown sequence of button presses for the pigeon to discover, the food would just come at random intervals no matter what the pigeon did. The result was:

"He discovered that the pigeons associated the delivery of the food with whatever chance actions they had been performing as it was delivered, and that they subsequently continued to perform these same actions. " One bird was conditioned to turn counter-clockwise about the cage, making two or three turns between reinforcements. Another repeatedly thrust its head into one of the upper corners of the cage. A third developed a 'tossing' response, as if placing its head beneath an invisible bar and lifting it repeatedly. Two birds developed a pendulum motion of the head and body, in which the head was extended forward and swung from right to left with a sharp movement followed by a somewhat slower return.

In other words, superstitious pigeons.

Consequently, one would expect superstition to be more common in third world societies, such as Thailand, where people have less control over their lives than in the first world.

Edited August 12, 2008 by CaptHaddock

[Richb2004v2]

I find it hard to believe that few non-believers can set about saying that all religions are false, and that belief and faith are merely superstition. Personally, I'm open to accept a person's faith in their religion, it's their's and not mine to criticize. For those that adamantly feel the need to decry their disbelief, then forever hold to it. Don't be the first to call upon "the one" that doesn't exist when a family member or yourself are in dire straights. Don't use the semblance of his name in your cursing or daily language. Personally, I'm going to keep an open mind about religions, all religions, I can't prove them wrong, neither can I prove them right. Historically, the Bible is more correct than wrong, there are disparities, it was written by human hand. The Big Bang theory has many truths about it too, but it too is flawed, you can ask any serious astronomer and physicist and they will tell you that the big bang theory and the expansion of the universe are also flawed, they too were written by human hand. It's all basically our human attempt to explain the unexplainable. Many people do it in many different ways... it's no ones right, to say that anyone is wrong or stupid for choosing the explanation that best fits them. The bottom line is, there is either some higher diety or being that has all the answers, or theres not. I can guarantee one thing, there's no human alive today that has them all here now. I'm not pretending to know anything... I'm writing from my own point of view, and about my own beliefs. You all are free to believe or disbelieve what you want... I merely choose to leave my options open... and not pass judgement on others because their beliefs are different than mine. Saying someone elses beliefs are false without evidence is wrong... people shouldn't always have to prove they're right, take the initiative, and prove that they're wrong.

some virgin gave birth did she?- a man walked on water did he? noah- the world in 5 days- that if you go to lourdes and touch some old stature you get better ( I must admit I do laugh when I hear of how many drop dead soon after- seems like she was,nt on form that day-poor old girl) etc, etc,

Or getting on your knees 5 times a day and making aweful noises will get you anything- other than sore knees.

Or standing against a wall and rocking back and forth will help in any way.

How can anyone in their right mind believe in all this nonsense?, and how can anyone trust anyone that seriously does?

These people are the sheep, the desperate ones, the self deluded.

Clinging to their pathetic dietys and beliefs because they want something that they know reality is,nt going to give them.

Do you know why people like this dislike people like me- because deep down they know its all crap.

I pity them- I cannot really respect anyone who really believes in such tosh.

Well said. I'm with you. Zero respect for mumbo-jumbo.

[bonobo]

Superstition and religion are not one-in-the-same, although most religions have superstitious aspects to them.

Many modern religions are based on the teachings of historical figures such as Christ, Mohammed, and Buddah. And most religions do attempt to teach morality as each religion views it, trying to make sense out of man's place in the world and how to interact with others. "Don't kill," don't steal," etc are reasonable rules which help people live together harmoniously.

Superstions are a set of beliefs that certain actions can bring good or bad luck or good or bad consequences despite the lack fo a reasonable connection. But the line can be blurred. Is drinking chicken soup really good for a cold, or is this an "old wive's tale," or, in otherwords, a superstition? Is not eating pork, as one person posted, really a superstition, or is it based on the higher likelihood that someone in the Middle East might catch trichinosis from eating pork than someone might catch another disease from eating lamb in the same area?

Most reasonable people would discount the vast majority of the world's superstitions as scientific impossibilities. But we tend to ignore our own superstitions. The post about throwing the baby tooth on the roof so the chickens don't eat it (keeping the child from growing a new tooth) is an example of something so far off from science that it can be easily discounted.

But many peopel follow superstitions, in my opinion, for traditional reseans of culture. If we look at Christianity, for example, how many Christians truly believe, in the bottom of thier hearts, that in taking communion, the wine is really transformed into the blood of Christ? I would bet not very many, but people still do it for the comfort of the traditional trappings of their religious beliefs.

Most superstitions are harmless, I feel. Does it really matter if a tooth is thrown on the roof? No. And I would bet that most Thais doing this don't really believe it. Many Americans won't walk under a ladder, if giventhe choice. This is probably reasonable as ladders can fall, but if forced to wlk under a laddre, most people will simply do it and move on.

Superstitions become harmful when they adversely impact lives. Indonesians buring "witches," Singaporans sacraficing their 10-year-old neighbor so their businese will have good luck, South Africans raping to ddeath a 2-year-old girl because they believe that having sex with a virgin will cure them of AIDS, these are all pretty obvious. But some are not so obvious, such as waiting until a certain day or hour to sign a contract to ensure the venture is successful.

Why are some intelligent people superstitious? Well, I think most people are superstitious to some degree or another. And many intelligent people will take on the trappings of superstition merely as a means to keep tradition alive (Jews stomping on a glass after getting married, for example). But for otherwise seemingly intelligent, educated people to truly believe in some of the more outlandish supersittions, ("outlandish" is a judgement call, I know), well, i can't understand that either.

[cobra]

The paradoxical line from ( When I Die / Blood, Sweat and Tears) ..."I don't believe in Heaven and I pray there ain't no Hel_"... says it all.

Many hedge their bets when the line falls on ... can not be proven to exist / can not be proven to not exist,

From the hypocrite who goes to church, to the professional gambler who still adheres to strict superstitious ritual, and of course the atheist who upon seeing the oxygen masks drop quickly refrains, oh G_d, please don't let me die,

[canuckamuck]

I believe that the truly smart people realise that we actually know very little and so are less certain about reality.

Reality is an individual perception that varies in detail from person to person that can change as newer knowledge is acquired. Some people may perceive superstition as part of their reality, but it seems to apply more to behavior (a social thing) rather than knowledge in the broader sense. "Don't do that or the boogyman will get you!" Superstition can also be a handy excuse to shift blame when things don't go right.

Reality does not shift from person to person. Belief and denial shift. Real is real. What is stupid is the belief that reality is what you make it. A convenient and comforting thought, and a massive self delusion. Tommorow I think I will be a bird.

[canuckamuck]

Superstition and religion are not one-in-the-same, although most religions have superstitious aspects to them.

Many modern religions are based on the teachings of historical figures such as Christ, Mohammed, and Buddah. And most religions do attempt to teach morality as each religion views it, trying to make sense out of man's place in the world and how to interact with others. "Don't kill," don't steal," etc are reasonable rules which help people live together harmoniously.

Superstions are a set of beliefs that certain actions can bring good or bad luck or good or bad consequences despite the lack fo a reasonable connection. But the line can be blurred. Is drinking chicken soup really good for a cold, or is this an "old wive's tale," or, in otherwords, a superstition? Is not eating pork, as one person posted, really a superstition, or is it based on the higher likelihood that someone in the Middle East might catch trichinosis from eating pork than someone might catch another disease from eating lamb in the same area?

Most reasonable people would discount the vast majority of the world's superstitions as scientific impossibilities. But we tend to ignore our own superstitions. The post about throwing the baby tooth on the roof so the chickens don't eat it (keeping the child from growing a new tooth) is an example of something so far off from science that it can be easily discounted.

But many peopel follow superstitions, in my opinion, for traditional reseans of culture. If we look at Christianity, for example, how many Christians truly believe, in the bottom of thier hearts, that in taking communion, the wine is really transformed into the blood of Christ? I would bet not very many, but people still do it for the comfort of the traditional trappings of their religious beliefs.

Most superstitions are harmless, I feel. Does it really matter if a tooth is thrown on the roof? No. And I would bet that most Thais doing this don't really believe it. Many Americans won't walk under a ladder, if giventhe choice. This is probably reasonable as ladders can fall, but if forced to wlk under a laddre, most people will simply do it and move on.

Superstitions become harmful when they adversely impact lives. Indonesians buring "witches," Singaporans sacraficing their 10-year-old neighbor so their businese will have good luck, South Africans raping to ddeath a 2-year-old girl because they believe that having sex with a virgin will cure them of AIDS, these are all pretty obvious. But some are not so obvious, such as waiting until a certain day or hour to sign a contract to ensure the venture is successful.

Why are some intelligent people superstitious? Well, I think most people are superstitious to some degree or another. And many intelligent people will take on the trappings of superstition merely as a means to keep tradition alive (Jews stomping on a glass after getting married, for example). But for otherwise seemingly intelligent, educated people to truly believe in some of the more outlandish supersittions, ("outlandish" is a judgement call, I know), well, i can't understand that either.

In Acts 17. Paul told the people of Athens that he perceived that they were very religious. As it was written in Greek the word he used was Deisidaimonesteros, which can be translated as superstitious or broken in to its roots as, being fearful of devils. The line between superstition and religion is far from clear. This is not to say that theology is necessarily superstition, because if God is true it is simply prudent to believe.

Science is too small a measuring stick to evaluate the extranatural, so scientists close the door to the discussion. In this way they can continue in their arrogance of being on the one clear path to knowledge. This is as much a superstition as any other. Just say: if it can’t be observed or measured, then it doesn’t exist. Yet scientists still claim that all matter came from nothing and then this matter became organized and brought forth life and our extrodinarlily balanced and fertile planet (despite the fact that is scientifically impossible). And upon this planet one species developed reason and ethics and superstition. The physical realm is in the hand of God and not the other way around.

By the way, only the Catholics claim the bread and wine actually turn to blood and flesh, when they clearly do not. It is a symbolic, nothing more. Most of Christendom is saturated with religious embellishment.

[AmeriThai]

I believe that the truly smart people realise that we actually know very little and so are less certain about reality.

Reality is an individual perception that varies in detail from person to person that can change as newer knowledge is acquired. Some people may perceive superstition as part of their reality, but it seems to apply more to behavior (a social thing) rather than knowledge in the broader sense. "Don't do that or the boogyman will get you!" Superstition can also be a handy excuse to shift blame when things don't go right.

Reality does not shift from person to person. Belief and denial shift. Real is real. What is stupid is the belief that reality is what you make it. A convenient and comforting thought, and a massive self delusion. Tommorow I think I will be a bird.

LOL! So then you must believe everyone on the planet thinks exactly the same as you about everything. Maybe you should reread my post again, a little more carefully though. I was talking about the PERCEPTION (that's in your mind) of reality. Yes, real is real. Is there any other alternative? Not that I know of.

There are things we all share in common as being real. But it's in the details of some things (like superstition) that a person may perceive (meaning your thoughts) can and indeed do vary. Yes, belief and denial are most certainly a part of it. For example, many people thought there were canals on Mars that were made by some intelligent form of life, and that dark seasonal patches was evidently lush vegetation. To those people it seemed real because they didn't have the means or information to know otherwise. We now know there are no canals, no vegetation, and no little green men living there. Except for the polar ice caps, the planet is lifeless and covered with rocks, dust and craters. In other words, the perception of it has changed.

Lemme give you another example that's a little more bizarre. It was pretty much thought people are physical things made up of bones, muscles, blood, etc. And it's true, we are. But there's a lot more to it than just that. We're an organized mass of specialized cells, that in turn are ultimately composed of atoms. Every thought you have is the result of electro-chemical activity that stimulate the brain cells, and it's all because of energy that takes place at the atomic level. In fact, we're made up of elements that are found in stars. I won't get into quantum particles and physics. Now, what were you saying about reality?

Reality might not change, but our perceptions about it can and do.

BTW, Good luck with cleaning your feathers tomorrow.

[kmart]

I'm always a little wary when I see a deep philosophical discussion breaking out in this section; and usually throw a pinch of salt over my shoulder to ward off the evil spirits of deep thinking.

[bonobo]

[

By the way, only the Catholics claim the bread and wine actually turn to blood and flesh, when they clearly do not. It is a symbolic, nothing more. Most of Christendom is saturated with religious embellishment.

It is not only Roman Catholics who believe in transubstantiation. Anglicans, for example, still officially believe in it.

I agree with what you write that Science can almost become its own religion, but science (lower case) is still a reasonable methodology to view the world. Science is not infallible, but pretty much any reasonalbe person will be able to use the basic laws of science to refute many superstitions. However, some people, using science as their bible, might refute things which merely have not been proven yet (nor disproven), For example many local medical practices of various indigenous peoples of the world have not been "proven" by accepted medical testing procedures, but that does not mean they do not work. However, I think it is fairly obvious that if a dog scares a pregnant woman, that does not mean the baby will end up looking like a dog.

[garro]

I believe that the truly smart people realise that we actually know very little and so are less certain about reality.

Reality is an individual perception that varies in detail from person to person that can change as newer knowledge is acquired. Some people may perceive superstition as part of their reality, but it seems to apply more to behavior (a social thing) rather than knowledge in the broader sense. "Don't do that or the boogyman will get you!" Superstition can also be a handy excuse to shift blame when things don't go right.

Reality does not shift from person to person. Belief and denial shift. Real is real. What is stupid is the belief that reality is what you make it. A convenient and comforting thought, and a massive self delusion. Tommorow I think I will be a bird.

What nonsense. Reality is created by the observer and internal conditions will influence how external conditions are perceived. No two people see the world in exactly the same way and nobody sees the correct reality as there isn't one. The reality is that a chair isn't a solid thing despite what our eyes tell us and witness testimonies are prime examples of how different our reality can be from another person. When we talk about a shared reality we are talking about a consensus and not the truth.

I actually think that it is the people who cling to a belief in the 'real world' and 'real facts' are the crazies. They cling to certainty because they could not face the possibility of just admitting that they just don't know. The athiest is convinced of his reality and the theist in his.

Edited August 13, 2008 by garro

[canuckamuck]

LOL! So then you must believe everyone on the planet thinks exactly the same as you about everything. Maybe you should reread my post again, a little more carefully though. I was talking about the PERCEPTION (that's in your mind) of reality. Yes, real is real. Is there any other alternative? Not that I know of.

There are things we all share in common as being real. But it's in the details of some things (like superstition) that a person may perceive (meaning your thoughts) can and indeed do vary. Yes, belief and denial are most certainly a part of it. For example, many people thought there were canals on Mars that were made by some intelligent form of life, and that dark seasonal patches was evidently lush vegetation. To those people it seemed real because they didn't have the means or information to know otherwise. We now know there are no canals, no vegetation, and no little green men living there. Except for the polar ice caps, the planet is lifeless and covered with rocks, dust and craters. In other words, the perception of it has changed.

Lemme give you another example that's a little more bizarre. It was pretty much thought people are physical things made up of bones, muscles, blood, etc. And it's true, we are. But there's a lot more to it than just that. We're an organized mass of specialized cells, that in turn are ultimately composed of atoms. Every thought you have is the result of electro-chemical activity that stimulate the brain cells, and it's all because of energy that takes place at the atomic level. In fact, we're made up of elements that are found in stars. I won't get into quantum particles and physics. Now, what were you saying about reality?

Reality might not change, but our perceptions about it can and do.

BTW, Good luck with cleaning your feathers tomorrow.

My point there was that perception is not reality. Everyone faces a different set of circumstances, limitations and advantages. But that does not make their reality unique, Some one elses problems are just as real in my world, even if I don't even percieve them. Otherwise a crazy man would be justified in whatever action he took because he belongs to a different reality.

I do like what you said about us being made up from the same elements as the stars, I would go further to say we are held together by the same power that gives atoms mass, A power that can make it all go away just as quickly as it came.

[canuckamuck]

It is not only Roman Catholics who believe in transubstantiation. Anglicans, for example, still officially believe in it.

I agree with what you write that Science can almost become its own religion, but science (lower case) is still a reasonable methodology to view the world. Science is not infallible, but pretty much any reasonalbe person will be able to use the basic laws of science to refute many superstitions. However, some people, using science as their bible, might refute things which merely have not been proven yet (nor disproven), For example many local medical practices of various indigenous peoples of the world have not been "proven" by accepted medical testing procedures, but that does not mean they do not work. However, I think it is fairly obvious that if a dog scares a pregnant woman, that does not mean the baby will end up looking like a dog.

Ok I suspected the Anglicans believed transubstantiation as well, my bad.

Science is a good way to predict and observe the physical universe. The laws of nature are consistent and because of the this we can adapt and reach great heights of knowledge. However it is ridiculous for science to have anything to say about the non physical universe. Just as ridiculous as using a star chart to predict the minimum critcal mass for nuclear fusion.

[PapiRico]

so i hear thaskin is burying a lucky flower or something under the manchester city field to make his team lucky, and i remember him and other prominant Thai officials consulting fortune tellers and i have met many many intelligent Thai people who still believe in this type of stuff. it causes a problem for me because only morons believe in this stuff. now my GF says "This condo is not good because its infront of a temple and thats bad luck."...Great, babe.

How can smart people can be superstitious?....well how can dumb people be in power....I herd Bush was in Thailand by the way..........

[dingdongrb]

The post about throwing the baby tooth on the roof so the chickens don't eat it (keeping the child from growing a new tooth) is an example of something so far off from science that it can be easily discounted.

As opposed to leaving the tooth under the pillow and the 'tooth fairy' will take it while you're asleep and leave you money?

And if you pray and don't sin you'll go to heaven? (What does science tell us here professor?)

Perhaps much has to do with what your family beliefs are and how you were raised?

[Samuian]

Science is too small a measuring stick to evaluate the extranatural, so scientists close the door to the discussion. In this way they can continue in their arrogance of being on the one clear path to knowledge. This is as much a superstition as any other. Just say: if it can’t be observed or measured, then it doesn’t exist. Yet scientists still claim that all matter came from nothing and then this matter became organized and brought forth life and our extrodinarlily balanced and fertile planet (despite the fact that is scientifically impossible). And upon this planet one species developed reason and ethics and superstition. The physical realm is in the hand of God and not the other way around.

At least you have a point there somewhere... don't know if it isn't arrogant to claim that scientists are arrogant because they "close the door to discussion" or "Science is too small a measuring stick to evaluate the extra natural"!

What is extra natural?

4 Billion ( 4.000.000.000) years is quite some time for something complex to evolve and form something, like "life" did, on Planet earth?

(not to mention the universe, of which we simply do yet ,not know much of it)

1 Million years is quite some time for the "one species developed reason and ethics and superstition"!

How long does it take those days, to get a MBA, PhD, MoS or to become a surgeon, a nuclear scientist, a radio cardiologist, a marine biologist, a mechanic, an architect, a pilot, name it... ?

Who "makes" the snow flakes?

How long does it take for a seed to develop into a massive tree?

How long does it take for mildew, mold to appear visibly on food items?

Why does Milk curdle and become Cheese?

Can milk do this on it's own?

Why men started to make bread, beer, wine and all the other refined and processed foods and didn't stick to grains and fruit?

Ever seen what simple Magnetism does to iron filings?

Who "created" the pattern in the sunflowers bud?

Water, what 3 elements are today believed to be necessary base to form life?

Why do birds, fish and other life forms "navigate" with the earths magnetism?

Why did people bother to build the pyramids, to stack the Library of Alexandria, the internet, make all these zillions of inventions?

Aren't we learning, exploring, every day something new, doesn't it seem to be our very nature to "move on"?

Even a Chimp, a dog, a bear, a dolphin, a budgie (name it) can learn!

Does this necessarily need a "Chief Scientist" to be set off?

if so, who did employ him?

Who made him?

I think that superstition is simply the replacement for "knowing better", the "science of pre-science times....in the days they didn't know better!

Edited August 13, 2008 by Samuian

[Travel2003]

Humans are an extremely primitive species.Essentially we are just a bunch of warring tribes whose premise for mayhem and destruction is our primitive, baseless belief systems(religion). I'm sure there are more advanced lifeforms in the universe who laugh at our cerebral inadequacies.

We are?

I thought all so called experts agreed upon the fact that the Humans are the most intelligent of the worlds species.

Im not religious or superstitious either, but had to smile when you mentioned other advanced lifeforms in the universe.

I guess it is as difficult to prove that theory as it is to prove religions and supernatural things.

[Travel2003]

so i hear thaskin is burying a lucky flower or something under the manchester city field to make his team lucky, and i remember him and other prominant Thai officials consulting fortune tellers and i have met many many intelligent Thai people who still believe in this type of stuff. it causes a problem for me because only morons believe in this stuff. now my GF says "This condo is not good because its infront of a temple and thats bad luck."...Great, babe.

This is exactly like asking how any intelligent person can be religious - just another collection of superstitions anyway. Anyone who has thought critically about any of this cannot intelligently sustain these unfounded beliefs, whether it's about opening an umbrella indoors or talking to your imaginary friend in the sky.

Or, intelligent people fully believe in aliens from another planet.

[Prakanong]

"It is not only Roman Catholics who believe in transubstantiation. Anglicans, for example, still officially believe in it"

Really - I thought that was one of the major differences between the Catholics and proddies - I must be remembering my Modern European History at Uni wrong

[canuckamuck]

At least you have a point there somewhere... don't know if it isn't arrogant to claim that scientists are arrogant because they "close the door to discussion" or "Science is too small a measuring stick to evaluate the extra natural"!

What is extra natural?

4 Billion ( 4.000.000.000) years is quite some time for something complex to evolve and form something, like "life" did, on Planet earth?

(not to mention the universe, of which we simply do yet ,not know much of it)

1 Million years is quite some time for the "one species developed reason and ethics and superstition"!

How long does it take those days, to get a MBA, PhD, MoS or to become a surgeon, a nuclear scientist, a radio cardiologist, a marine biologist, a mechanic, an architect, a pilot, name it... ?

Who "makes" the snow flakes?

How long does it take for a seed to develop into a massive tree?

How long does it take for mildew, mold to appear visibly on food items?

Why does Milk curdle and become Cheese?

Can milk do this on it's own?

Why men started to make bread, beer, wine and all the other refined and processed foods and didn't stick to grains and fruit?

Ever seen what simple Magnetism does to iron filings?

Who "created" the pattern in the sunflowers bud?

Water, what 3 elements are today believed to be necessary base to form life?

Why do birds, fish and other life forms "navigate" with the earths magnetism?

Why did people bother to build the pyramids, to stack the Library of Alexandria, the internet, make all these zillions of inventions?

Aren't we learning, exploring, every day something new, doesn't it seem to be our very nature to "move on"?

Even a Chimp, a dog, a bear, a dolphin, a budgie (name it) can learn!

Does this necessarily need a "Chief Scientist" to be set off?

if so, who did employ him?

Who made him?

I think that superstition is simply the replacement for "knowing better", the "science of pre-science times....in the days they didn't know better!

And why do fools fall in love?

Sorry but random points deserve random replies