Should The UK Extradite Thaksin To Face The Thai Courts?

[percy2]

How has one of these silly polls become a Thai News Clipping?

Complete with Windows Live Alert?

[mrtoad]

He is making an absolute mockery of the Thai justice system.

And the British Immigration system.

[taxexile]

the thai courts effectively helped them to flee , they may very well go through the motions of asking for him back to assuage public opinion and legal process , but we all know that the european courts will not send him back. these cases usually go on for years before ending up in brussels and asylum being granted. i dont think the thais actually want him on thai soil anymore.

even that one eyed one armed hate filled muslim cleric , already doing 6 years in the uk for inciting terrorism , has won an appeal to the european court of human rights against extradition to the us on the grounds of possible inhumane treatment in a us gaol

i cant see the brits sending thaksin back , the thais wanted the canadians to send back a thai because of a huge financial mess up some years ago , afaik , he was never extradited.

like all the other discredited thai politicians , generals etc. they bugger off for a few years , keep their heads down and then when things have quietened down , they come back of their own accord.

mrs. t however is a different matter. how the brits deal with her case will be very interesting.

[Patriciachas]

Even when justice is just, its wheels grind slowly. Has Mr. Taksin been convicted of jaywalking or overcooking samtam? His wife has been convicted, and has jumped bail. How long does it take to extradite her?

At the beginning of the day, this is about who gets to keep control of Thailand. PAD may discover they have all just been tools in the hands of the elite. If only that box had contained chocolates....

How did his wife get into the uk she is a convicted criminal.She should not have got past immigration.Is their a sign of corruption in the good old UK??.

[seri thai]

Mr & Mrs T join a long list of Thais who have gone into state approved voluntary exile. i.e. The powers that be knew they wouldn't be coming back from the olympics and didn't attempt to stop them. Look at the list of names this century who have done the same. It is part of thai statecraft and removes the embarassment and problems of having him on the nations soil. Face and the status quo is mostly preserved all round. Falling on ones sword is a profoundly western concept that is not understandable here. Transferring your bank account and living to fight another day is more logical and profitable. When it comes to the next persons turn to leave this arrangement leaves the doors open. Newin is now organising a new party/lifeboat in the NE in case PPP goes down. Plus ca change.

Thaksin will bide his time until some of the older institutional players leave the game and will keep his finger in the pie and on the pulse.

It may however be the case that he's not needed by his supposed friends as much as he would like to believe and he may well find himself irrelevant in 5-10 years time as new alliances are formed and new players enter the game. Public memory seems to be very short in the land of smiles, otherwise there wouldn't be much to smile about.

Thaksin who?

[Prakanong]

Seri Thai

Hit the nail on the head - excellent post

[cmsally]

Seconded; good post from Seri.

One of the pitfalls that the nation will fall into , is to think that now the big bad monster of corruption is out of the way only the good elements are left. Of course far from the truth (after all this is politics) and maybe worse to come.

[LivinLOS]

I voted,and he is not a criminal until he is found guilty

So what do you call someone who commits the crime of skipping bail ?? Theres no denying the 'crime' and hes now a fugitive, if that isnt wanted criminal then what is ??

Lets not forget is wife is now a wanted criminal already found guilty also.

[yumidesign]

You are correct in the sense that he has not been formally charged with ordering the extra-judicial killings. That always bothered me alot more than selling Thai assets to Singapore, but I guess that is a "Thai thing".

This bothers me a lot too, the murder of more than 2,ooo people on the instructions of the countries premier has not been addressed at all. Its just all about the money. Does this say that values in Thai society are seriously flawed?

[Kerryd]

i cant see the brits sending thaksin back , the thais wanted the canadians to send back a thai because of a huge financial mess up some years ago , afaik , he was never extradited.

No, good old Saxeena is still living the good life in Vancouver. Allegedly running criminal scams while living in his penthouse apartment, protected by his own crew of bodyguards.

Difference is, is that Saxeena faces the death penalty if he is extradited. That is why Canada won't do it. If Thailand were to agree to a lesser maximum sentence in this case, I think Canada would get rid of him in a heartbeat.

But then again, supposedly there are about 40,000 people that have deportation orders against them, running around the country right now. Most have simply over-stayed their visas. Problem is, the police can't find them. Unless they catch one by accident for some other reason (i.e. at a Drunk Driving checkpoint), the police don't have the resources to chase them down.

Even if they did catch them, then they could get lawyers (paid for by the government) to fight their extradition. It seems to be almost impossible to get rid of anyone from Canada, even those that can't afford high-priced lawyers.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

I think they should send him a notice that if he does not appear in court withing 10 days they are confiscating the 69 Billion Baht they hold and all of his and her property. Then if he dosen't show take it all.

Have a party and then spend the balance on the country, not the politicians.

Then whether or not they bring him back makes little difference. He's paid heavy.

[Prakanong]

I think they should send him a notice that if he does not appear in court withing 10 days they are confiscating the 69 Billion Baht they hold and all of his and her property. Then if he dosen't show take it all.

Have a party and then spend the balance on the country, not the politicians.

Then whether or not they bring him back makes little difference. He's paid heavy.

It would be a good idea to put the money in say a ring fenced fund for the education and scholarship of bright Thai students through school, University at undergrad and post-grad level at home and oversea's - it would then ensure addint to the future development of Thailand.

we know it will not be put to an end like this though - someone else will be looking to put their snouts in the trough - nothing will change.

[BigSnake]

No not now, maybe in future, say 3 or four years. Give things time to CHILL OUT in Thailand. Maybe after a few New Governments have had there stay in power, Mr Thaksin(IE< the Big Boss) might just be welcome back with open arms.

[ilyushin]

No, let the UK keep him. He will be found guilty in Thailand and given a sentence ( live and die in prison) and then one day he will return to sort it all out then justice will be served.

[frodo]

I voted yes. While Thaksin himself has not been convicted of any crime, his wife is a convicted criminal as she should be deported back to Thailand and begin serving her jail term, plus any additional time for fleeing. If the courts find Thaksin and any other family members are found guilty, they too should be deported back to serve their sentences. Legally, they are not above the law and immune from it.

His reasons for applying for political asylum are nonsense. His claims that the judiciary are unfair, totally contradicts previous statements that the courts are in fact fair. In his eyes, as long as the cards are stacked in his favor, it is fair. When the courts began to see through the manipulation and lies of him and his family, he is like any other criminal facing trial..."The courts are biased against me". So far, his words are no more than lies and manipulation.

His latest speech was no more than a "Woe is me, I am the victim." Is he trying for an Oscar Award for his performance?

[duncaw]

In my view he's got a much better case for political asylum than most so called "Asylum seekers" in the UK and at least the UK taxpayer won't have to support him.

[Sunderland]

He's not coming back soon. Everyone here will move on with their lives and everyone in the UK, with the exception of those associated with Manchester City Football Club, couldn't care less whether he is here, there or the depths of hel_l.

The important question is ... what is Samak cooking for dinner tonight?

[Who, me ?]

He is making an absolute mockery of the Thai justice system.

Really ? How surprising !! Since when ?

He is not the first one. He won't be the last one...If the guy had a ounce of respect for anything but his wealth, we would know by now

[wayfarer108]

I heard about the change of flight plan in advance from a lawyer friend who is a member of Thaksin's 20-man defence team. He campaigned on Thaksin's behalf nine years ago, was a full-fledged TRT member. Now that he's worked through all the available evidence on Thaksin's behalf, and got to know Mr T a bit better, he is no longer a supporter, and reckons T is a loose cannon who can wreck the economy with a week's notice through his influence with SET, etc, just for revenge and in hopes he can come back as a hero, picking up the pieces.

If convicted in absentia, yes absolutely, the UK should extradite Mr T.

[kalbo123]

I voted,and he is not a criminal until he is found guilty.sitting on the fence hear after a 7 day ban and i dont think we can discuss bargirls so we certainly cant comment on a powerful figure like thaksin,we have to be polite,non judgemental and non committed or use pms lol.

No, I think someone who skips the country to avoid a required court appearance is a criminal by any definition. That part is not ambiguous. I think there is a good argument for letting him stay in a disgraced exile because it may contribute to more stability in Thailand to have him out of the picture.

I think the court is even more criminal/corrupt then Thaksin!!!! So a wise thing for to go to England.

And what has he done? Nothing is proved yet! And they changed the law to try to convict him.

[Kerryd]

Maybe someone in the govenrment will come up with the bright idea to take Mr T's frozen assets, and use them to buy an English football club.

Surely there is a club out there that has an owner that could use a (large) cash influx right about now ? And would be willing to sell his interests for a (very large) profit ?

One might think that would be a way to screw the country (Thailand) one more time. After all, you could (almost) argue that he used public money (the taxes he should have paid on the ShinCorp sale) to buy the club (essentially getting the club for free one might say). Then the government uses his frozen assets to buy the club (no doubt well over the actual value) and boom ! He gets his money back ! (The club itself would then have to be sold, at a substantial loss, to someone else of course. Perhaps to Mr T's butler, who would of course sell it back to Mr T for a pittance.)

I'm sure Mr T could work out all the details of how to do this in a flash, using off shore corporations and the like, and end up back in full control of his assets (including the football club), with only the loss of some "transaction" fees along the way.

[kalbo123]

Maybe someone in the govenrment will come up with the bright idea to take Mr T's frozen assets, and use them to buy an English football club.

Surely there is a club out there that has an owner that could use a (large) cash influx right about now ? And would be willing to sell his interests for a (very large) profit ?

One might think that would be a way to screw the country (Thailand) one more time. After all, you could (almost) argue that he used public money (the taxes he should have paid on the ShinCorp sale) to buy the club (essentially getting the club for free one might say). Then the government uses his frozen assets to buy the club (no doubt well over the actual value) and boom ! He gets his money back ! (The club itself would then have to be sold, at a substantial loss, to someone else of course. Perhaps to Mr T's butler, who would of course sell it back to Mr T for a pittance.)

I'm sure Mr T could work out all the details of how to do this in a flash, using off shore corporations and the like, and end up back in full control of his assets (including the football club), with only the loss of some "transaction" fees along the way.

The taxes het should have paid! That is just not true he used a way to avoid to pay taxes that is legal and every Thai with a lot of money does!!!

[cmsally]

Seeing as this is a yes/no question; I will go for no.

This is based on various posts/speeches from expats that all say if their future was in the hands of the Thai courts/legal system they would all hop it back to their own countries in a flash, as the Thai legal system can't be trusted.

[old wanderer]

I do believe he and the entire family should be brought back.

There is now Arrest warrants issued by the Supreme Court. The trials will continue, with or without his presence. His attorneys will be there to argue his case.

I believe that pathetic fax just enraged the judges....He basically called them crooks because they did not do the normal thing and accept his 2,000,000 bribe. I full expect that he and his family and friends, will be found guilty and sentenced over the next 30 days. The court already forfeited the $346,000 bail he and family had posted.

For sure it was a shock when his wife's relative/attorney got scooped up with the 2 million baht bribe and went straight to jail for 6 months, then has to come back and stand criminal trial with a possible 5 year sentence. Then Ponjiman was sentenced to 3 years along with 2 of her conspirators. What a BS story she told.

The healthiest thing Thailand could do is to break the mold of the rich can do anything, and put the whole family including children in jail. (Thailand might be better off without that gene pool).

I do believe the Supreme court is willing, and now the lower judges are getting bolder.

It was only 1 lower judge that allowed him and wife to leave, I am sure it was not voted on by the Supreme court. The next cases are mostly before the Supreme Court, and if convicted there is no appeal and he would have to go directly from courtroom to jail.

[Gonzo the Face]

What kind of books have you people been reading that say someone must have been convicted of a crime to be extradited.

He should be extradited to face his day in court, to face trial & see if he will be convicted.

Remember the extradition of the so called Russian arms dealer from Thailand , to face trial

Remember the guy last year who said he was the killer of Jon Benet Ramsey.

It is my understanding they were being extradicted to have their day in court, not go straight to jail because they had already been convicted.

Edited August 12, 2008 by Gonzo the Face

[Tony Clifton]

I voted yes because I also think someone who skips the country to avoid a required court appearance is a criminal by any definition.

Even if it was a planned deal made internally as some say, faithful to his old habits he yet broke the law again by agreeing to take a possible detour around the justice system.

Do you think the Enron crooks were allowed to leave their country?

Edited August 12, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[Prakanong]

Seeing as this is a yes/no question; I will go for no.

This is based on various posts/speeches from expats that all say if their future was in the hands of the Thai courts/legal system they would all hop it back to their own countries in a flash, as the Thai legal system can't be trusted.

Yeah - I wonder how many TV members would throw themselves at the mercy of a thai court if they had the chance to skip back to their own country - not that any TV members would ever face a thai court of course.

[Gonzo the Face]

Seeing as this is a yes/no question; I will go for no.

This is based on various posts/speeches from expats that all say if their future was in the hands of the Thai courts/legal system they would all hop it back to their own countries in a flash, as the Thai legal system can't be trusted.

Yeah - I wonder how many TV members would throw themselves at the mercy of a thai court if they had the chance to skip back to their own country - not that any TV members would ever face a thai court of course.

That is not until they make BS'ing and Bad Mouthing an offense... then its jam the courts time

[booma]

Sorry, but am I right in saying that Thaksin cannot be extradited from England until a foreign government requests his extradition? If so this thread is bull as the Thai government haven't / won't enter/ed into these procedures as it is they who advised / helped him to leave the country in the first place.

cut the carp

B

Edited August 12, 2008 by booma

[klikster]

"I think someone who skips the country to avoid a required court appearance is a criminal by any definition. "

Surely, you mean fugitive.

Or, as many on TV, have you already tried and convicted him?

Edited August 12, 2008 by klikster