If The Roles Were Reversed?

[dutchguest]

What would be the reactions in your homecountry if thousends of more or less old, rich foreign man would come to your country and marry with more or less young, poor girls from your country?

How would people look at this?

[sylviex]

What would be the reactions in your homecountry if thousends of more or less old, rich foreign man would come to your country and marry with more or less young, poor girls from your country?

How would people look at this?

I don't think many "poor" Australian girls would be interested. They have other dreams and other options and would see many disadvantages to marriage with a much older person, if financial gain were the only motive.

One exceptional group might be girls living in extremely disadvantaged indigenous communities. This would soon produce some interesting reactions.

[Jeddah Jo]

What would be the reactions in your homecountry if thousends of more or less old, rich foreign man would come to your country and marry with more or less young, poor girls from your country?

How would people look at this?

Slightly reversing the question, but if you look at what is happening in the UK for instance. You find a huge flow of Eastern European women entering the country looking for jobs and a better life. If they subsequently hook up with British guys who will by and large be significantly wealthier than they are, then who is to say they are not gold diggers too? Should we look down on men who marry girls from Eastern Europe? Or feel sorry for the men who are left in their own country who are now minus one potential mate?

You are trying to racialise what is basically a biological equation that has existed since the dawn of time.

In Thailand though I have to say having a farang husband is not really an impediment to a Thai woman carrying on their existing relationship with a Thai man, and sadly most Thais know this to be the case so are not overly concerned with puah farang.

See recent very sad case for just one example out of thousands.

JJ

[sylviex]

It is still an interesting question to ponder.

One factor present in Thailand that is absent in most Australian families (I would think) is the encouragement to daughters to marry a rich man, regardless of other factors. It is virtually a duty here, for girls in poorer families and sometimes boys. Take away this factor, and the scenario becomes even more unlikely than it already is. This shows something about cultural values that would need to exist as well as the socio-economic factors. For many Australians, I think, it is a point of honour to survive on your own merits, regardless of age or gender. (as per the term "Aussie battler"). It would, indeed, be quite shameful for you and your family to rely on another person's wealth in this way.

[mrcheshire]

If only the usa would be so lucky to have uk men come in and search for wives in harlem, south central la, poor chicago slums it would be greatly appreciated. Drop their life savings and then leave the usa would be a better place.

[lifeisrandom]

old farang are stealing the thai beauty queen slash medical students

[grantbkk]

That would be great! Bring them on! I might move back to the United States just to watch the dynamic. Culture shock for both side certainly but I think the joke would be on the newcomers. Just thinking about those poor bugger makes me LOL.

[Heng]

More cynical spot on posts please.

[mrcheshire]

The faces are on par with the faces of those issarn babes

[Travel2003]

It is still an interesting question to ponder.

One factor present in Thailand that is absent in most Australian families (I would think) is the encouragement to daughters to marry a rich man, regardless of other factors. It is virtually a duty here, for girls in poorer families and sometimes boys. Take away this factor, and the scenario becomes even more unlikely than it already is. This shows something about cultural values that would need to exist as well as the socio-economic factors. For many Australians, I think, it is a point of honour to survive on your own merits, regardless of age or gender. (as per the term "Aussie battler"). It would, indeed, be quite shameful for you and your family to rely on another person's wealth in this way.

Well of course they are absent from most Aussie families. There is no need.

Marrying into a good family is not a Thai thing.

Entire Asia, and parts of the Latin world as well have this as a normal way of life. It is when someone outside this world enters, it is looked upon abnormal.

Oh by the way, I read an article that the 3 most important things in an Aussie male's life is (ranked) 1. Beer, 2. Cars, and 3. Women.

Not to be discussed here of course.

[slapout]

It would benifit everyone,1) poor girl comes off welfare and other assistence programs, 2) tourist spending (for lack of a more descriptive term) increases, 3) decreases some of the inbreeding as girls get out of the county, 4) probably most taxpaying, working citizens would be all for it. If the UK would allow perment status they would be welcome to take the rich bitchey brats also.

[dutchguest]

I think in Holland at the moment it would be almost impossible.

Christian sexmoral and familymoral still play a big role. Probably a storm of moral indignation would arise.

Combined with the general attitude against foreigners: as long as they contribute to the economy it's mostly tolerated, but the feelings dormant under the surface might come to the surface as soon as foreigners are taking young girls in not small numbers. Just like in Thailand this will not be necessarely the most ugly ladies.

I think especially the young unmarried boys will see them as a target for their agression. Also the families of the girls will -I think- make life almost impossible for the foreigners.

[sylviex]

Marrying into a good family is not a Thai thing.

Entire Asia, and parts of the Latin world as well have this as a normal way of life. It is when someone outside this world enters, it is looked upon abnormal.

Certain Thai attitudes/values actively encourage some families to tell daughter to seekout a foreigner so daughter can support the family, regardless of all other factors.

(I would say almost the opposite is generally true in Australia and this is a cultural value.)

Foreigners are often unaware of this thinking in Thailand which is one factor in certain subsections of the foreign population landing in trouble or tragedy. People tend to assume values are the same in other cultures until a difference becomes evident.

Just thinking, Australian weather is quite good in many places and we have a small population, so the environment is quite unspoilt in many areas. It's getting expensive, though. You have to factor these other aspects in, too .

[Travel2003]

Marrying into a good family is not a Thai thing.

Entire Asia, and parts of the Latin world as well have this as a normal way of life. It is when someone outside this world enters, it is looked upon abnormal.

Certain Thai attitudes/values actively encourage some families to tell daughter to seekout a foreigner so daughter can support the family, regardless of all other factors.

(I would say almost the opposite is generally true in Australia and this is a cultural value.)

Foreigners are often unaware of this thinking in Thailand which is one factor in certain subsections of the foreign population landing in trouble or tragedy. People tend to assume values are the same in other cultures until a difference becomes evident.

Just thinking, Australian weather is quite good in many places and we have a small population, so the environment is quite unspoilt in many areas. It's getting expensive, though. You have to factor these other aspects in, too .

I agree with you there.

[MiG16]

Ive had to delete a couple of posts.

Any more slurs against women, western, thai or asian, and those that post such comments you will have your posting rights suspended.

this is a discussion board, and yes differing views are tolerated. However views presented that are derogatory in nature will NOT be tolerated. it is against forum rules.

take this as a warning and keep it respectful.

[roygsd]

What would be the reactions in your homecountry if thousends of more or less old, rich foreign man would come to your country and marry with more or less young, poor girls from your country?

How would people look at this?

Hi,

What other people think has never stopped people from doing what is best for themselves at the time and never will.

In the wild females select the male who is likely to provide the greatest chance of security for them, by and large the human species do much the same thing and it will continue to be that way.

Take a look around any country in the world, the young guys with the material things in life are generally the first in line, folowed by the older guys that can provide her with security and the materia things in life.

Its all about the females long term future security, and if she is thinking of kids even more so.

As females have gained more equality in the past 100 or so years some have been fortunate enough to have been born into a society where they have had the opportunity to access better standards of education which in turn has opened up better employment opportunities which in turn provides them with a greater degree of independence, financial or otherwise.

Let me ask the O/P a question, if you were the head of a poor family ( from any country in the world) would you want your daughter to hook up with a guy who cannot or is unlikely to be able to provide a decent future for your daughter and any possibe kids she may have, or would you settle for her ending up with an older guy who has a degree of wealth that you could only dream of and who is likely to provide here with financial security for life?

We all want whats best for our kids, and the waster up the street generally isnt the choice of most parents I am sure, clearly the poorer the family situation the more necessary it is for the female to try to improve her chances in life.

Not saying its right or wrong, just the way the tide flows, trying to swim against the tide isnt always the smart thing to do.

Roy gsd

Edited August 17, 2008 by roygsd

[sylviex]

If you were the head of a poor family ( from any country in the world) would you want your daughter to ook up with a guy who cannot or is unlikely to be able to provide a decent future for his daughter and any possibe kids she may have or would you settle for her ending up with an older guy who has a degree of wealth that you could only dream of and who is likley to provide here with financial security for life?

I wouldn't want her to "ook up" with anyone .

If we change this to

"if you were the head of a poor family ( from any country in the world) would you want your daughter to ook up with a guy who cannot or is unlikely to be able to provide a decent future for the son and any possibe kids he may have or would you settle for him ending up with an older guy/woman who has a degree of wealth that you could only dream of and who is likley to provide here with financial security for life, regardless of all other factors ?"

what would you say ?

Personally, I would do my utmost to help her get an education/skills that would allow her to support herself (and me in old age, I guess) through her life. She would never have to "sell herself" in marriage. If she became unhappy in a relationship, she could leave. Financial independence brings many blessings.

Also, if we said,

"if you were the head of a poor family ( from any country in the world) would you want your son to ook up with a guy/woman who cannot or is unlikely to be able to provide a decent future for his daughter and any possibe kids she may have or would you settle for her ending up with an older guy who has a degree of wealth that you could only dream of and who is likley to provide here with financial security for life?"

what would you say ?

Edited August 17, 2008 by sylviex

[way2muchcoffee]

You failed to really answer the question Sylviex. You responded with an impossibility (a poor family almost by definition lacks the resources to provide a good education for their children) and then a rebuttal question that doesn't make any sense (read your question and you'll see what I mean I think).

I'll give the question a go.

I think that if I was very poor (or not) and my daughter met an older wealthy man, enjoyed his company, and felt that she loved him, I wouldn't have any problem with the marriage. If she happened to fall in love with a 'waster' I would offer advice, throw up an impediment or two to slow things down, but if the couple showed true love and persevered I would remove those impediments in short order. It's really not my business to dictate to my daughter who she can or can't marry. In all cases I would not advocate for any marriage to a man she did not love.

Edited August 17, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[HASSELHOFF]

Its hard to say unless your in that situation, sure its easy to say no right now. But unless your truley in that situation and ou family is struggling to eat and you been struggling for 10 plus years who knows what you would think in this situation

[lifeisrandom]

i personally would rather my daughter marry the rich older man than the poor younger man

when it comes to marriage and kids i think money talks to be completely honest

the truth about "love" is that it tends to dissipate so she marries a young guy who she loves and is poor but then the loves go bye bye along the way and shes left with just being poor

better to take the old guy in that situation then she can just "go shopping" and spend saturday afternoons with the young handsome guys the way the thai girls do now wink wink

Edited August 17, 2008 by lifeisrandom

[sylviex]

You failed to really answer the question Sylviex. You responded with an impossibility (a poor family almost by definition lacks the resources to provide a good education for their children)

I thought I answered it. I said, "I would do my utmost ...". If providing my daughter with education/skills proved impossible, I really don't know what I'd do. I don't think I could "sell" her to someone she did not love or feel attracted to. (Yes, I know it is nearly impossible to contemplate this precisely because of my own background.)

However, I do believe that even in circumstances of great poverty, it is possible to get children on a path that will enable them to support themselves in the future. What is necesary is for this to be a priority -- this does not often appear to be the case in Thailand, sadly.

Which is my "rebuttal question"? Where I added "regardless of all other factors"?

Or this (now edited):

"if you were the head of a poor family ( from any country in the world) would you want your son to ook up with a guy/woman who cannot or is unlikely to be able to provide a decent future for the son and any possibe kids he may have or would you settle for him ending up with an older woman/guy who has a degree of wealth that you could only dream of and who is likley to provide him with financial security for life?"

Edited August 17, 2008 by sylviex

[dutchguest]

Let me ask the O/P a question, if you were the head of a poor family ( from any country in the world) would you want your daughter to hook up with a guy who cannot or is unlikely to be able to provide a decent future for your daughter and any possibe kids she may have, or would you settle for her ending up with an older guy who has a degree of wealth that you could only dream of and who is likely to provide here with financial security for life?

We all want whats best for our kids, and the waster up the street generally isnt the choice of most parents I am sure, clearly the poorer the family situation the more necessary it is for the female to try to improve her chances in life.

Not saying its right or wrong, just the way the tide flows, trying to swim against the tide isnt always the smart thing to do.

Roy gsd

Today daughters in the west want to decide everything for themselfes and I think this is the best. They must learn by falling and getting up.

If I had to give advise I would advise to follow her own feelings for the guy in the first place and not to look too much to age or money.

In Thailand the poverty is a much bigger problem and also the sexual moral values differ, so that is a different situation. It is difficult to give general advises. In a specific case, if you know the guy, you can better say what you think of it.

[way2muchcoffee]

However, I do believe that even in circumstances of great poverty, it is possible to get children on a path that will enable them to support themselves in the future. What is necessary is for this to be a priority -- this does not often appear to be the case in Thailand, sadly.

I'll respond a little tongue-in-cheek, but also with an element of truth.

For many poor families having their daughter marry a rich older man is a reasonable way for her to be self-sufficient. She (and the rest of the family) will be well taken care of while the older man is alive. When he passes on she will be able to take care of herself (and possibly the rest of the family) for the rest of her life with the estate proceeds. A bit cynical I know, but it seems to be kind of thinking in some poor families.

With regards to the gender reversal, I don't think I would approach the situation any differently.

Edited August 17, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[roygsd]

It is still an interesting question to ponder.

For many Australians, I think, it is a point of honour to survive on your own merits, regardless of age or gender. (as per the term "Aussie battler"). It would, indeed, be quite shameful for you and your family to rely on another person's wealth in this way.

Hi

Blimey, how times change!

A while back it was almost a pre -condition to live in Australia you had to have got or tried to get your hands on another persons wealth

Roy gsd

[sylviex]

Another factor to consider is the children. If the man is very much older, there is a good chance he will not be able to parent them as actively as a younger man and that he will die before the children grow up.

I know that in many cultures, other family members will step in, but having a close relationship with both parents is something quite special and precious, as is observing a happy, healthy relationship between one's parents.

The old guy's sperm might be faulty, too .

[sylviex]

A while back it was almost a pre -condition to live in Australia you had to have got or tried to get your hands on another persons wealth

In convict times ? "There's honour among thieves" .

[roygsd]

I think in Holland at the moment it would be almost impossible.

Christian sexmoral and familymoral still play a big role. Probably a storm of moral indignation would arise.

Combined with the general attitude against foreigners: as long as they contribute to the economy it's mostly tolerated, but the feelings dormant under the surface might come to the surface as soon as foreigners are taking young girls in not small numbers. Just like in Thailand this will not be necessarely the most ugly ladies.

I think especially the young unmarried boys will see them as a target for their agression.

Also the families of the girls will -I think- make life almost impossible for the foreigners.

In reality most of the families of these ladies would not chose to bite the hand that feeds them.

roy gsd

[Shotime]

What would be the reactions in your homecountry if thousends of more or less old, rich foreign man would come to your country and marry with more or less young, poor girls from your country?

How would people look at this?

As a money making opportunity. They would change all the laws regarding foreigners owning land, reinstitute the dowry, set up gold shops like here in Chinatown, etc. The government would invent some new visa requirements and other things to increase revenue.

Anyone trying to hustle the old, rich foreign men, for example taxi drivers, would be happy for the opportunity, but would most likely be envious. Like most of the other innocent bystanders, they would probably blame the old, rich men for their own miseries.

I could see some people taking the high moral ground, and look at the arrangement as somehow immoral or distasteful, and reflective of the parents lack of bringing up their daughter properly, but I could also see a lot of people looking at it as a smart move on the girls part. We call women who look for older, richer men, gold-diggers. The only difference being the OP said they were foreigners.

I'm just kidding. In my homecountry, we'd never allow it.

[chiangmaibruce]

One factor present in Thailand that is absent in most Australian families (I would think) is the encouragement to daughters to marry a rich man, regardless of other factors. It is virtually a duty here, for girls in poorer families and sometimes boys. Take away this factor, and the scenario becomes even more unlikely than it already is. This shows something about cultural values that would need to exist as well as the socio-economic factors. For many Australians, I think, it is a point of honour to survive on your own merits, regardless of age or gender. (as per the term "Aussie battler"). It would, indeed, be quite shameful for you and your family to rely on another person's wealth in this way.

'Culture' (and within it "sexual morals") reflects to some extent the economic reality in which people exist. So let's make a few changes to sylviex's vision of Australia:

Step 1. remove government welfare entirely for both the woman, her siblings and elderly parents

Step 2. remove the right to claim >50% of the husbands assets (including pre-marriage assets) in the event of divorce - but only if they marry another Aussie

Step 3. slash the minimum wage to, well, virtually nothing

etc etc

Now throw in the cultural value that the women in the family have a strong duty of care to those around them, rather than focussing on what they themselves want

Then leave this new set-up to run for a year or two, and revisit and run your comparison again and see what you find.

"regardless of other factors" is a state that exists only in a test tube.

[lazeeboy]

What would be the reactions in your homecountry if thousends of more or less old, rich foreign man would come to your country and marry with more or less young, poor girls from your country?

How would people look at this?

I don't think many "poor" Australian girls would be interested. They have other dreams and other options and would see many disadvantages to marriage with a much older person, if financial gain were the only motive.

One exceptional group might be girls living in extremely disadvantaged indigenous communities. This would soon produce some interesting reactions.

i dont think old men would be interested in fat spotty english girls