Boil In The Bag Curries...could It Work?

[basinboy]

My wife and I have been coming to Chiang Mai twice a year for the last few years, she imports fashion and accessories into Australia and has a shop in Melbourne.

It has been our goal to live full time in Chiang Mai within the next 2 - 3 years (early/semi retirement). I have a business in Australia that could be scaled back a bit and run from Chiang Mai, but realistically we would still need a bit more income if we want to make a move sooner rather than later. So this is where "boil in the bag" comes in. Firstly I think the "boil in the bag " is unfairly criticized, if the food is good in the first place it will be good when it is reheated,

I got the idea when I lived in Sydney more than 20 years ago, a couple of ladies had a business called "Kitchen Curries" selling frozen curries from their shop. They are still in business after more than 30 years and sell through many outlets as well as the shop.

I've loved cooking Indian curries since I was a teenager in Bradford, When I moved to Melbourne 20 years ago I was set to give it a go, but in the end the money I earned as a wage slave Marketing Manager held me back.

Now it could be different. The income does not have to support a growing family or mortgage.

We are back in Chiang Mai in a couple of weeks and I am going to spend my time checking out shop rents, material costs and potential markets.

I envisage two separate markets:

Take away, cook at home, aimed at ex pats

Pub/Restaurants buying single serves.

Obviously value and quality are essential, I can produce the quality and have a reliable Thai staff/partner that I I am teaching to cook the curries, this will be necessary as I will not be in town full time for a while (there will probably only be a range of about six meals, with occasional additions/deletions.

Offering the right price to the trade would be important, but the advantages of saving on time and waste are pluses.

So the next stage is some pavement pounding and number crunching as well as talking to a few publicans etc.

I guess the obvious location is around Nimmamhemin Huay Kaew areas?

I think a visit to Sunbelt Asia to find out about the legal aspects of a business set up.

Lots of work to do before I can judge whether it will feel right to take the plunge, but I would be interested in any feed back, particularly from residents that enjoy the odd curry.

[Samuian]

Can be done, why not?

Check out the many Microwave ready to eat dishes in Tesco/Lotus, in the Family marts and the 7/11 Outlets, on offer already.

Personally I do not eat reheated food, as there is plenty of freshly made "take away" available, but still believe that there is a niche there.

[poshthai]

There are a couple of places in Pattaya thats started to do this boil in the bag.The product is from Bangkok and they are quite nice for 200 baht,which is realy 2 meals if you stick a bit more chicken to it.

[Bill97]

there is plenty of freshly made "take away" available

and it is good and not expensive

[Samuian]

there is plenty of freshly made "take away" available

and it is good and not expensive

You got it!

200 Baht would buy, what 6-10 bags of any kind of thai curry, soup, rice?

The "other day" It was late and a was hungry, there was the Som Tam & BBQ Shop on wheels... i asked for SomTam Thai, medium, put 2 Chicken legs on the grill, a serve of Sticky Rice... got the SomTam, with additional Greens, StickyRice and 2 grilled chicken Legs for 100.- (Samui Prices) but it was really good too!

On the market 1 serve of green Curry, one of the red hot fish curry, one (small) grilled fish (pla tuu) and Kanom Chine for 50.-!

well no further comments...

got to have to be really special indian style homemade curries to convince the customers!

[uptheos]

1) I think Meals on Wheels have made a pre-emptive strike, especially as far as Indian food market goes.

Now people can order many types of curry from their favourite Indian (and other) restaurant and have it delivered at reasonable cost.

2) As mentioned earlier, good Thai curries can be had for as little as 20 Baht

[sylviex]

I think it could work if your product is in some way significantly different to the Indian curries already offered by Le Spice, Royal India et al. If the meals were available from supermarkets/groceries, I'd probably take some from time to time.

Perhaps "British style" Indian curries would be a success or Aus-Indian fusion or something ...

But perhaps you might look at something different which is currently not available. I am not sure what but others will have definite ideas for you, I am sure.

Chili ? Do we currently have a good supplier ?

Soups ?

Really good, interesting fresh salads that could consitute a meal (Oh, I guess that's tricky as cannot be frozen)

Good quality casseroles (beef stroganoff, coq au vin and so on)

Aussie BBQ food !

Home made, good quality meat pies & pasties !

Deli-style sandwiches with good breads (we have Subway & Amazing Sandwich)

The heat does not seem to deter people from hankering for such foods. Generally, expats here seem quite keen consumers of ready made meals (my impression only). Indeed, perhaps what is really needed is a diet food service !

P.S. Why "boil in bag" rather than microwaveable ?

Edited August 19, 2008 by sylviex

[uptheos]

Further to my earlier post I'm now swaying in the direction that boil in the bag curries or something similar might work.

After getting hungry I ordered (first time) from Star of India via Meals on Wheels 3 dishes.

Meals on Wheels brilliant, polite service - food, the worst Indian food I have ever had and I've eaten it all around the world. It was about 50% grease and totally inedible for me. I'll say no more except ask, is this common to Star of India?

If the OP can produce eat at home curries that don't resemble an oil change, there could be a market.

[KevinHunt]

My wife and I have been coming to Chiang Mai twice a year for the last few years, she imports fashion and accessories into Australia and has a shop in Melbourne.

It has been our goal to live full time in Chiang Mai within the next 2 - 3 years (early/semi retirement). I have a business in Australia that could be scaled back a bit and run from Chiang Mai, but realistically we would still need a bit more income if we want to make a move sooner rather than later. So this is where "boil in the bag" comes in. Firstly I think the "boil in the bag " is unfairly criticized, if the food is good in the first place it will be good when it is reheated,

I got the idea when I lived in Sydney more than 20 years ago, a couple of ladies had a business called "Kitchen Curries" selling frozen curries from their shop. They are still in business after more than 30 years and sell through many outlets as well as the shop.

I don't know what the population of Sydney is, but compared to the expat population of Chiang Mai it must be huge. (most Thais don't like Indian food). So you're not really considering like with like. If it was meant as a comparison, that is.

I've loved cooking Indian curries since I was a teenager in Bradford, When I moved to Melbourne 20 years ago I was set to give it a go, but in the end the money I earned as a wage slave Marketing Manager held me back.

Now it could be different. The income does not have to support a growing family or mortgage.

We are back in Chiang Mai in a couple of weeks and I am going to spend my time checking out shop rents, material costs and potential markets.

I envisage two separate markets:

Take away, cook at home, aimed at ex pats

I would imagine most expats would prefer Thai curries, and wouldn't be prepared to pay more than 60 baht. They know of too many alternatives including good Thai curries at very reasonable prices.

Pub/Restaurants buying single serves.

Tourist go to Pubs/ western retaurants for a bit of home cooking. I would never consider putting Indian curry on my menu because the customers either want something familiar (steak / fish n chips etc) or Thai food. Why come to Thailand and have Indian curries? I couldn't sell more than 2 or 3 orders a week I think.

Obviously value and quality are essential, I can produce the quality and have a reliable Thai staff/partner that I I am teaching to cook the curries, this will be necessary as I will not be in town full time for a while (there will probably only be a range of about six meals, with occasional additions/deletions.

Offering the right price to the trade would be important, but the advantages of saving on time and waste are pluses.

So the next stage is some pavement pounding and number crunching as well as talking to a few publicans etc.

I guess the obvious location is around Nimmamhemin Huay Kaew areas?

I think a visit to Sunbelt Asia to find out about the legal aspects of a business set up.

Lots of work to do before I can judge whether it will feel right to take the plunge, but I would be interested in any feed back, particularly from residents that enjoy the odd curry.

Edited August 19, 2008 by KevinHUNT

[pumpuiman]

I would think bagging a meal that can be found cheaper and fresher on any street corner would not be a good idea.

However....a survey of expats, to see what foods they miss from home...followed by assembly of said foods with quality ingredients...may work.

I'm a minority Yank here.......you'd have to ask the Brits what they like.....can you boil in a bag vegemite?

[p1p]

Firstly I must confess I have had some experience of this in the UK where I had a "sous-vide" kitchen doing "boil in the bag" dishes for wholesale to UK supermarkets. You need to be aware that the entire process is fraught with danger. The bacteria that thrive in the "bag" are not your normal runny-tummy nasties. The anaerobic bacteria you find in such environments are responsible for such things as yersinia, listeriosis, and botulism poisoning. They will and frequently do kill people unlucky enough to consume them.

A sous vide dish may look, smell and even taste okay, but it could be saturated with anaerobic bacteria that would cause your death. Normal aerobic bacteria that cause rot and nasty smells etc. are killed by the cooking and packing process, anaerobic ones are not, so your customer cannot tell if something is deadly without experimentation on themselves or in a lab.

My kitchen in the UK was a sterile "clean room" much like an operating theatre. Staff wore special clothes, shoes, gloves and masks and all equipment was sterilised before it entered the kitchen. Food had to be blast chilled as soon as it was finished. It was the only way to pass our weekly health authority inspections. I fear the infrastructure does not exist in Chiang Mai to give you the sterility you need in your production process or to ensure the products are always kept at the required temperature after they leave your kitchen and before they appear on a plate.

As an example of the problems you are likely to face. I used to supply a well known local supermarket chain with food products; stews, soups, curries, and things like pasta dishes and ready made sauces. I had my own deep freezes in each of their branches.

One day a cleaner unplugged one of my deep freezes to plug in her floor scrubber. She did not plug it in again resulting in 50,000+ worth of food defrosting. I was called by a customer two days after this event and told all my food was warm! (I was in Bangkok at the time.)

I called the shop manager and told him to remove all my goods from sale, as they were unsafe. Instead of doing so, he plugged in the deep freeze again and allowed everything to re-freeze. He was unwilling to accept any responsibility for the goods ruined by his staff, so attempted to sell them.

When I discovered this had happened. I removed all my products from the supermarkets in question and have not dealt with them since. I never got compensation for my destroyed goods.

The problem is that this is not an isolated incident but is wholly symptomatic of much of the Thai attitude. I'm afraid I would never offer sous vide in this country because I am not willing to risk the lives of my customers.

[basinboy]

As always, good and prompt feedback from forum members, I was mentally answering the queries as I read the different posts:

No I am not trying to compete with Thai food at Thai prices

My market segmentation was in the main Anglo ex pats (Brits, Aussies, Kiwis) who actually regards Indian curries as "comfort food from home"

I was feeling pretty good as I read the thread until I got to p1p's cautionary tale...Bloody hel_l I think it is fair to say that you have stopped me dead in my tracks, even If I took the view that for safety's sake you were exaggerating the potential risks, Even just killing the odd person would be a bit hard to live with

Still thanks p1p, better to know the risk now than later.

I guess it's back to the drawing board, maybe working on my business here for another three years, by which time we could probably make the move to Chiang Mai without much need for income....Bugger I don't want to wait that long

[p1p]

I was feeling pretty good as I read the thread until I got to p1p's cautionary tale...Bloody hel_l I think it is fair to say that you have stopped me dead in my tracks, even If I took the view that for safety's sake you were exaggerating the potential risks, Even just killing the odd person would be a bit hard to live with

Still thanks p1p, better to know the risk now than later.

I guess it's back to the drawing board, maybe working on my business here for another three years, by which time we could probably make the move to Chiang Mai without much need for income....Bugger I don't want to wait that long

Sorry - it was not my intent to dissuade you from your dream, simply to appraise you of the risks. Research sous vide, you may feel you can overcome the problems. It is always best to be fully prepared before launching such a venture.

[highonthai]

Maybe someone here can inlighten me as to what small 100% foriener target based (expat) business has had sucsess here?

[tigerbeer]

Maybe someone here can inlighten me as to what small 100% foriener target based (expat) business has had sucsess here?

I can think of at least two. but then again how do you classify what is considered as "a successful small business"?

[roamer]

"Even just killing the odd person would be a bit hard to live with"

:D :D

Edited August 21, 2008 by roamer

[gpdjohn]

Mumm..boil in a bag food.

Ate it for years.

Delicious. Not.

[Crow Boy]

Mumm..boil in a bag food.

Ate it for years.

Yeah RTE's (ready to eats) are neither ready nor edible

You Americans have it lucky - you should have tried to survive on Aussie Ration Packs aka Rat Packs. The B pack had a tin of meat that had the same smell and consistency of dog food.

CB

[sceadugenga]

It was dog food.

Boil in the bag kippers stand in a class of their own though.

[mcgriffith]

My dad lived on C rats from 1942 to 1945 in the South Pacific.

If I even mentioned the words "Vienna Sausage" or "Spam" in his presence, his look would be enough to banish me to my room.

The new improved (halal !) multi-option MRE's that the US Army deploys today are not too bad. You notice I did not use the word "good" here.

I used to buy a big case of various types (for earthquake/natural disaster preparedness) from one of the major contractors, and would actually eat them before they hit the expiry date. The full meal packets include everything- Handi-Wipes, mini bottles of Tabasco, etc. Stored at a constant 25 C, they last a decade before losing significant food value (calories/nutrition....I'm not talking about Taste!)

I know this is a sickness....if there is a group therapy 12-step program where I can exorcise this Spam Demon, point me there....

[Familyonthemove]

I was feeling pretty good as I read the thread until I got to p1p's cautionary tale...Bloody hel_l I think it is fair to say that you have stopped me dead in my tracks, even If I took the view that for safety's sake you were exaggerating the potential risks, Even just killing the odd person would be a bit hard to live with

Still thanks p1p, better to know the risk now than later.

I guess it's back to the drawing board, maybe working on my business here for another three years, by which time we could probably make the move to Chiang Mai without much need for income....Bugger I don't want to wait that long

Sorry - it was not my intent to dissuade you from your dream, simply to appraise you of the risks. Research sous vide, you may feel you can overcome the problems. It is always best to be fully prepared before launching such a venture.

I don't feel p1p was being alarmist ... sous vide has had a poor history of serious food poisoning. The low temp cooking and vacuum sealing create an inherent risk of the nasiest of food poisoning bugs. But you mention frozen. Now frozen products that are not vacuum sealed and a prepared under hygienic conditions with good management have a lower risk. Also worth looking at chilled, sealed but not vacuum sealed .... shorter shelf life, slightly higher risk, but much better quality. Have a look at HACCP systems or even get certified under ISO 22000 or the BRC scheme if you want to supply supermarkets. Good quality ethnic 'ready meals' will be a huge growth area ... the few currently available from S&P, CP, Rang Mahal are nothing compared to the vast range in more developed markets. 'Cash rish/time poor' do not always have the time to eat out or get a take-away, no matter how good the local products.

Go for it .... but do it right. Tesco UK is the king of the chilled ready meal, and some of their products are made in Thailand.

[gpdjohn]

I have to admit though, I did like the C-rats, egg & ham was a tasty and good on the 'ol stomach after a hard night ( used to tell 'em i was Jewish in the chow lines so I wouldn't get the whatever it was, ham or some kinda pork slices, ya know the round little slabs of fat and veins and actual grease sitting on top of the inside when you opened it..)

I once got a can of peanut butter with the date stamp of 1942 on it, this was on active duty in 1973, mumm, tasty, except that all the oil from the butter had since long vaporized somehow inside the can and I got to eat "peanut spackle"..

MRE's..

Ultimate favorite was BBQ Beef and I'd mix the freeze dried potato's in with the beef. mummmm, frickin tasty whilst laying inside your fartsack during the sleep phase..

That cookie was a thumbs up as well.

We had a C rat cookbook, I'm sure almost everybody did at one point. Mix 'n match from several different boxes...some came out darn tasty.

Ah, the good 'ol days of field cuisine..

[Crow Boy]

I was involved in a MRE trial in the Australian Army. One of the ones we experimented with used a special semipermeable membrane that separated the freeze dried inner "food like substance" from the outer lining bag. The membrane was to filter the water. We trialled it with a wide variety of water including sea water, bore water from artesian wells and swamp water. On one memorable occasion we used our own urine

The Army in their infinite wisdom decided that the packs while nutritious, edible and having excellent shelf life coupled with light weight and a wide variety of meals was too expensive so we were stuck with Pal meat for dogs with dehydrated potato, an oatmeal bar, a couple of hardtack biscuits and a small tin of twin fruits.

Ahhhh the memories

CB

[slapout]

As always, good and prompt feedback from forum members, I was mentally answering the queries as I read the different posts:

No I am not trying to compete with Thai food at Thai prices

My market segmentation was in the main Anglo ex pats (Brits, Aussies, Kiwis) who actually regards Indian curries as "comfort food from home"

I was feeling pretty good as I read the thread until I got to p1p's cautionary tale...Bloody hel_l I think it is fair to say that you have stopped me dead in my tracks, even If I took the view that for safety's sake you were exaggerating the potential risks, Even just killing the odd person would be a bit hard to live with

Still thanks p1p, better to know the risk now than later.

I guess it's back to the drawing board, maybe working on my business here for another three years, by which time we could probably make the move to Chiang Mai without much need for income....Bugger I don't want to wait that long

Do not stop due to mentioned comments, would you stop driving as you may have a motorcycle run into you and someone dies? Would you sue or stop eating if you or your family had perceived food poisoning from any of the street vendors or resturants and did not opt for medical care? The case mentioned above on loss of food etc is not fair but maybe the right approach is not to put food out without pay up front. Even if law suits and the fear of them is more common place in LOS now it seems be be mostly in the political and hi-so population. Your idea sounds worth futher study and if the negatives can be addressed and /or brought to a acceptable level, do what you know best. Good luck