Fraud ,warning

[kangeroo]

Hello .

About a hour ago i got a call from citybank to tell me someone had taken a inprint of my card and used it ,they never told me how much . I used the card to pay for my room, and only used it once while i was in Thai, i stayed at Shagwell mansions the one across the from niran condo about one month ago .

They used the card today some where in thai and citybank picked it up because now i am in Australia and used the card almost at the same time they did , i was at a petrol station in Melbourne .

i would hope that its not the staff because i have been going there a long time and know bob the owner and the girls at reception .

But just a warning to all it might be better to use cash in that area untill things get better.

cheers

[kiakaha]

a few tips i go by:

always ensure that the card is physically in your line of site the entire time of the transaction to prevent "swiping" under the table (card readers are a couple hundred baht from Pantip)

only use card at reputable establishments (for me this is 5 star hotels, high end restaurants and retailers mostly), keeping in mind the previous point regardless.

if you ever have you card zip zapped on one of the older machines, always take the carbon and any other imprints yourself for destruction.

inform your issuer bank which countries you will be in, dates etc.., make sure you bank has your mobile number for fraud alerts, so if necessary you can immedaitely stop the card and have a new one issued and dispatched to you.

if you get any POS receipts from purchases that dont mask out your card PAN, keep them and destroy them..fraudsters can get these from the garbage and clone a card

try to use a local debit card ie : Visa Electron , for local electronic purchases...i often use my kasikorn debit card at pubs, restaurants in bangkok.

and of course, cash is always safe.

[Maizefarmer]

........ cashiers "accidently" knocking a pen or a coin of the counter, then bending down out of sight with your card in hand to pick up the pen or coin, only to use the oppurtunity to swipe the card through a standalone reader, takes a split second to do.

Gas stations are well known places for this con - because they have such a large throughput of plastic cards .....

The GOLDEN RULE:

NEVER EVER LET YOUR PLASTIC OUT OF YOUR SIGHT - NOT EVEN FOR A MOMENT.

[PhilHarries]

if you ever have you card zip zapped on one of the older machines, always take the carbon and any other imprints yourself for destruction.

and remember rule #1 : have it zip zapped within your site.

Back in about '91 I used my card at a very reputable restaurant in Valencia (Venezuela) and dropped my guard on that one. They obviously took two swipes and then forged my signature at their leisure. Should have realised the words "reputable" and the name of any south American country are an oxymoron.

We live and learn, the amount they took would have fed an entire village for a week.

[kiakaha]

if you ever have you card zip zapped on one of the older machines, always take the carbon and any other imprints yourself for destruction.

and remember rule #1 : have it zip zapped within your site.

Back in about '91 I used my card at a very reputable restaurant in Valencia (Venezuela) and dropped my guard on that one. They obviously took two swipes and then forged my signature at their leisure. Should have realised the words "reputable" and the name of any south American country are an oxymoron.

We live and learn, the amount they took would have fed an entire village for a week.

Yes, it definately happens all over the world..i've heard central america and even florida are particularly bad.

[Spiny]

NEVER EVER LET YOUR PLASTIC OUT OF YOUR SIGHT - NOT EVEN FOR A MOMENT.

Very good advice. This happened to me in KL at the Mandarin Hotel five years ago again with my CitiBank VISA card. that's when I found out about Phishing and have remain vigilant ever since especially regarding credit card usage. Now I make sure I shred everything with any personal details account numbers etc, statements, credits card numbers etc

[kiakaha]

Very good advice. This happened to me in KL at the Mandarin Hotel five years ago again with my CitiBank VISA card. that's when I found out about Phishing and have remain vigilant ever since especially regarding credit card usage. Now I make sure I shred everything with any personal details account numbers etc, statements, credits card numbers etc

Phishing and Swiping are NOT the same thing.

Swiping = you card details will be swiped by a cashier using a cheap card reader, easily concealable under the counter or in their pocket. The swiped card details can then be sold to a third party who will then print a new card with your swiped details and go on a shopping spree.

Phishing = usually by way of email, you will be directed to a website that "looks" exactly like a trusted site ie: your internet banking site , but it is a fraudulent site at a different location. They will then ask you to enter confidential details(credit card info, PIN numbers, internet banking logon details etc...) for some sort of validation... then they will go and pillage your real accounts.

Edited August 20, 2008 by kiakaha

[glyph]

"i stayed at Shagwell mansions..."

Great name for a place that screwed you.

[kiakaha]

Did you take action against this, report it to the owners of this hotel etc... ? you'll know the time/date of the transaction, so very easy to trace who the cashier was.

[dave111223]

I saw an episode of CSI (i think) where this woman had a radio transmitting card reader in her bag, ie she could read the data off your card inside your wallet from 6 feet away.

Anyone know if such a device exists?

[kiakaha]

I saw an episode of CSI (i think) where this woman had a radio transmitting card reader in her bag, ie she could read the data off your card inside your wallet from 6 feet away.

Anyone know if such a device exists?

google "credit card rfid" for all your reading pleasure

[Tony Clifton]

Say no to RFID.

[kangeroo]

Did you take action against this, report it to the owners of this hotel etc... ? you'll know the time/date of the transaction, so very easy to trace who the cashier was.

yes well i do know her thats the problem i have know her for 10 years , i called citibank again if there was any more they found out and told me that the number of the credit card had been recorded somewhere in the soi through the phone line . so what hope has anyone got except to pay cash .

[kiakaha]

Did you take action against this, report it to the owners of this hotel etc... ? you'll know the time/date of the transaction, so very easy to trace who the cashier was.

i called citibank again if there was any more they found out and told me that the number of the credit card had been recorded somewhere in the soi through the phone line

i dont know how a bank could possibly determine that as being the source of the stolen card data, or even the telephone company.it is trivial to do an undetected tap on a copper phone line.

[kangeroo]

Did you take action against this, report it to the owners of this hotel etc... ? you'll know the time/date of the transaction, so very easy to trace who the cashier was.

i called citibank again if there was any more they found out and told me that the number of the credit card had been recorded somewhere in the soi through the phone line

i dont know how a bank could possibly determine that as being the source of the stolen card data, or even the telephone company.it is trivial to do an undetected tap on a copper phone line.

yes i dont know myself but they did tell me i wasnt the only one so mayby they have been checking this for a while.

[Trevor]

I saw an episode of CSI (i think) where this woman had a radio transmitting card reader in her bag, ie she could read the data off your card inside your wallet from 6 feet away.

Anyone know if such a device exists?

google "credit card rfid" for all your reading pleasure

That's why EMF protection companies are selling wallet pouches made of microwave barrier material.

[kiakaha]

I saw an episode of CSI (i think) where this woman had a radio transmitting card reader in her bag, ie she could read the data off your card inside your wallet from 6 feet away.

Anyone know if such a device exists?

google "credit card rfid" for all your reading pleasure

That's why EMF protection companies are selling wallet pouches made of microwave barrier material.

RFID tags geared towards cards that fit in a wallet dont operate in the microwave radio frequency.They are more down in the lower frequencys.

ie: Octopus card uses 13.56 MHz , Visa paywave and E-Passports use 13.56 MHz (and adheres to standard ISO 14443) etc...

[tropo]

and of course, cash is always safe.

Really??

[Phil Conners]

Just don't use credit cards in Thailand except for ATM machines located in banks. Thailand is not ready for plastic.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Phil Conners

[samuibeachcomber]

well i hope it was n't anyone at shagwells,i stay there often and really like the place although have always paid cash,and have always thought the staff trustworthy.

[JimSiam]

Did you take action against this, report it to the owners of this hotel etc... ? you'll know the time/date of the transaction, so very easy to trace who the cashier was.

i called citibank again if there was any more they found out and told me that the number of the credit card had been recorded somewhere in the soi through the phone line

i dont know how a bank could possibly determine that as being the source of the stolen card data, or even the telephone company.it is trivial to do an undetected tap on a copper phone line.

I doubt anyone could do it that way or would even bother, the equipment to unscramble the data on the ETSL network is expensive and if they had it would be using it on not just that place but places with a large turnover of CC's, sounds like a soft answer as they could not identify the source, so that was the answer so there wont be any legal proceedings if they falsely accused the someone.

[Basil B]

I saw an episode of CSI (i think) where this woman had a radio transmitting card reader in her bag, ie she could read the data off your card inside your wallet from 6 feet away.

Anyone know if such a device exists?

We do not have RFID bank cards here in the UK nor do I think they have in Thailand, RFID cards work on two frequencies 125Khz & 13.56Mhz and work without batteries, security depends on the cards chip, I use them a lot in access control and would favor them as being more user friendly than Magnetic strip of chipped cards.

As for reading them it is possible from many meters but as the distance gets greater the loop antenna will need to get larger, so for fitting inside a womans hand bag I would say the range would be limited to Cm/20 inches, what you can read would probably only be the chips serial number and not the encrypted data stored on the chip as this would be password protected.

Even if you were close to a person using a ATM or accessing their hotel room and was able to capture all the dater sent by and sent to the card it is almost certain that this would be useless as "Code-hopping" technology would also be Incorporated.

My concern is that this may be used for terrorism, as almost all card will send out their serial/ID number unencrypted so if a terrorist were able to get close to their intended victim and scan them for serial numbers, then use this information to program a bomb to detect that person passing near by, on the other hand it would not be that difficult to make a detector for these scanners that could be worn by security persons and would give them a silent warning when a scanner was detected.

To prevent anybody reading your cards it would be advisable to use a card holder or wallet that was protected with a Faraday screen or sandwiched the cards between two tuned circuits that would absorb the RF energy, if you are buying a screened card holder or wallet avoid any that are described as "microwave" protected/screened as the manufacturer/seller obviously dose not not know what they are talking about and therefore it would almost certainly be a rip off.

BB

[moo9]

I just stopped using CC.

[basjke]

They used the card today some where in thai and citybank picked it up because now i am in Australia and used the card almost at the same time they did , i was at a petrol station in Melbourne .

Did you take action against this, report it to the owners of this hotel etc... ? you'll know the time/date of the transaction, so very easy to trace who the cashier was.

i called citibank again if there was any more they found out and told me that the number of the credit card had been recorded somewhere in the soi through the phone line

i dont know how a bank could possibly determine that as being the source of the stolen card data, or even the telephone company.it is trivial to do an undetected tap on a copper phone line.

yes i dont know myself but they did tell me i wasnt the only one so mayby they have been checking this for a while.

Don't I smell something?

[regedit]

Doesn't help much that in many places your full credit card number is recorded on the counterfoils.

Seems to be foreign cards rather than local cards that are scammed.

You can always draw the cash from an ATM using your credit card and pay the small cash advance/interest fee.

[gk10002000]

Say no to RFID.

RFID is very unsecure. Never use those pocket key chained size credit cards. Cticard sent me one and I quickly took it apart and cut it up. Same with all those "quick pass" gas station cards. Just accidents looking for places to happen.