Aussie In Thai Court For Distributing Porn

[george]

Porn for show in sex trial

BANGKOK: -- Prosecutors will present eight pornographic videotapes and 12 gay magazines to a Bangkok court today in their efforts to seek a conviction for former Australian diplomat Robert Scoble on charges he distributed pornography for trade.

Mr Scoble, 55, a former director of a Thai-based gay and lesbian travel agency, is due to appear in court this morning to fight suggestions he traded the material, which was allegedly found in his Bangkok home in March.

But sources close to the prosecution say they are baffled by Mr Scoble's decision to fight the charges, which could result in a three-year jail sentence and/or a 6000 baht fine.

"This is a very small case in Thailand. In Thailand no one ever goes to jail (for this offence), they plead guilty, pay the fine and that is it," the source said. The evidence, including eight videotapes bearing names such as Thai Boys 72, appears to represent only a small part of the hundreds of videos, photographs and magazines immigration police claimed to have found in Mr Scoble's home after the raid.

That evidence, seen at the time by The Australian, included many images of men having sex with prepubescent and pubescent boys.

It is not illegal to possess pornography, including child pornography, in Thailand, and prosecutors have instead accused Mr Scoble of distributing the material for the purposes of trade.

Mr Scoble worked for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade until he resigned in the mid-1980s.

--The Australian 2004-11-17

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Porn for show in sex trial

BANGKOK: -- Prosecutors will present eight pornographic videotapes and 12 gay magazines to a Bangkok court today in their efforts to seek a conviction for former Australian diplomat Robert Scoble on charges he distributed pornography for trade.

Mr Scoble, 55, a former director of a Thai-based gay and lesbian travel agency, is due to appear in court this morning to fight suggestions he traded the material, which was allegedly found in his Bangkok home in March.

But sources close to the prosecution say they are baffled by Mr Scoble's decision to fight the charges, which could result in a three-year jail sentence and/or a 6000 baht fine.

"This is a very small case in Thailand. In Thailand no one ever goes to jail (for this offence), they plead guilty, pay the fine and that is it," the source said. The evidence, including eight videotapes bearing names such as Thai Boys 72, appears to represent only a small part of the hundreds of videos, photographs and magazines immigration police claimed to have found in Mr Scoble's home after the raid.

That evidence, seen at the time by The Australian, included many images of men having sex with prepubescent and pubescent boys.

It is not illegal to possess pornography, including child pornography, in Thailand, and prosecutors have instead accused Mr Scoble of distributing the material for the purposes of trade.

Mr Scoble worked for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade until he resigned in the mid-1980s.

--The Australian 2004-11-17

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He has been banged up in the IDC for months already. He cannot win. He's being an idiot.

[toastwars]

--The Australian 2004-11-17

He has been banged up in the IDC for months already. He cannot win. He's being an idiot.

He is a bummer

[marquess]

He has been banged up in the IDC for months already. He cannot win. He's being an idiot.

Who can win in the Thai legal system? When you can be in jail for months on charge that does not normally merit a jail sentence. What the article probably failed to point out, is that as a foreigner, if you committ any offence, for which you are subsequently found guilty. You are liable for deportation, custodial or not.

[Ijustwannateach]

Don't know anything directly, but the consensus among my many gay farang friends is that this fellow is the victim either of success in his business or not greasing the right palms enough... if folks will recall the original charges were making child-porn, procuring children for a sex tourism business, visa problems, etc., etc.- and now it's boiled down to this- simple possession of pornography, which they're trying to prove he was "selling" since there's no other way to pin a rap. Typical sensationalistic bait and switch used to ruin yet another farang success story here. NEVER trust what you read in a Thai newspaper about any "crimes" someone has allegedly committed.

I agree with the other posters, however, that the poor sod's finished- no use making a martyr out of himself- he should just cut and run. And let this be a lesson to everyone never to invest your hard-earned foreign currency in a country so screwed up.

"Steven"

[kat]

Never will. Thanks for the perspective Steven.

At first, the story did sound really horrible, and if the guy is in possession of homemade child pornography, then he has to go down. But if it is simply "pornography", then I agree that this is another example of foreigner bashing.

[PvtDick]

Never will.  Thanks for the perspective Steven. 

At first, the story did sound really horrible, and if the guy is in possession of homemade child pornography, then he has to go down.  But if it is simply "pornography", then I agree that this is another example of foreigner bashing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In this case, I think it more the Aussies that are to blame than the Thais. Apparently, the Australian government has asked their Thai counterparts to investigate this guy. They wanted his scalp for some reason. Well, the raid didn't turn up anything all that juicy -- but Thai face being what it is, as well as the possibility of a counter-suit -- so the Thai said looks like it is pressing ahead with whatever charges it can muster.

[george]

Thai officers fail to produce evidence against ex-envoy

BANGKOK: -- No evidence linking former Australian diplomat Robert Scoble to the distribution of pornography was presented in the first day of his trial in Bangkok yesterday.

Despite broad claims when Scoble was arrested in March this year about the amount and graphic nature of pornography seized in a raid on his apartment, the prosecution could produce no evidence that the material was for anything but private use.

Scoble and business partner Charles John Goss, are charged with trading in and distributing pornography and employing an illegal immigrant in their business, Spice Trade Travel.

The trial took an odd twist when Judge Suttikorn Lipnoi, at the request of the defence, instructed journalists they were not allowed to take notes. "If I see anyone taking notes the punishment is imprisonment," he said.

The trial, in the Southern Bangkok subdistrict court, is being heard before a judge. Juries are not used in the Thai justice system.

For the first hour, prosecutor Manoo Kanchanawong questioned Inspector Choowong of the Immigration Bureau, who was part of the arrest team, about Scoble and Goss's homosexual lifestyle, rather than the evidence he had collected.

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When defence lawyer Preecha cross-examined Inspector Choowong, he said: "Regarding the investigation, you have found out these two men were homosexuals."

The second prosecution witness, Apiwat Tabtimtoh of the Tourism Authority of Thailand, who posed as a customer at Spice Trade Travel to get information on packages offered by the company, said: "While it is not illegal to pursue homosexuals who travel in Thailand, it is immoral."

Homosexuality is legal in Thailand, as is possession of pornography for private use. The law does not discriminate between adult and child pornography.

The prosecution presented 16 video tapes with names such as Boys a gogo and Thai Boys, DVDs, magazines and photographs allegedly found at Scoble's apartment.

Policeman Thawesak Tirabunchasak, who searched Scoble's apartment, told the court he had found obscene pictures of a man having sex with a boy, and obscene videos at Scoble's house.

Outside court, Scoble said: "To the extent that I appear comfortable, it is because I know I am innocent."

The trial, expected to last five days, continues today.

--Theage.com.au 2004-11-18

[Pattayaguy1999]

Homosexuality is legal in Thailand, as is possession of pornography for private use. The law does not discriminate between adult and child pornography.

Westerners can and are arrested for possesion of child porn in their countries. Not so here. I knew a guy in Pattaya that was found with photos of Cambodian children in his condo. He 'won' his case as it is not illegal to have such photos, only to distribute them for a profit. After a week in the Pattaya jail, several hundred thousand baht spent in attorney fees and court costs, he was deported. This is after he was judged innocent by the court. He left the country and was allowed to return with no prejudice. An expense ordeal even when you 'win'.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Never will.  Thanks for the perspective Steven.  

At first, the story did sound really horrible, and if the guy is in possession of homemade child pornography, then he has to go down.  But if it is simply "pornography", then I agree that this is another example of foreigner bashing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In this case, I think it more the Aussies that are to blame than the Thais. Apparently, the Australian government has asked their Thai counterparts to investigate this guy. They wanted his scalp for some reason. Well, the raid didn't turn up anything all that juicy -- but Thai face being what it is, as well as the possibility of a counter-suit -- so the Thai said looks like it is pressing ahead with whatever charges it can muster.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Australian's are pushing the Thai's to pursue Scoble as far as they can go. The Aussie's are embarrassed by the former diplomats activities over many years. It is said that Australia has cancelled his passport, and that is extreme given that, as yet, he is not guilty of anything.

[marquess]

Looks to me like they want to fit him up for anything they can. Good on him to fight it. The trouble with "authority", is that when they like to dig themselves into a hole, when they are wrong. Seems like it here.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Looks to me like they want to fit him up for anything they can. Good on him to fight it. The  trouble with "authority", is that when they like to dig themselves into a hole, when they are wrong. Seems like it here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have it in the proverbial nutshell. If Scoble is found innocent and freed, he'd best keep clear of Oz because they'll try to fit him up all over again.

[bartender100]

Thai logic.

Its not ilegal to own porn,but its illegal to sell it,so if you can't buy it,how can you possibly own it.

[udon]

The Australian's are pushing the Thai's to pursue Scoble as far as they can go. The Aussie's are embarrassed by the former diplomats activities over many years. It is said that Australia has cancelled his passport, and that is extreme given that, as yet, he is not guilty of anything.

They may have cancelled his diplomatic pp.

Seems a bit strong to cancel a standard one.

[astral]

He hasn't been a diplomat for years!!

Without a passport he has no option but to go back to Oz.

[udon]

He hasn't been a diplomat for years!!

Without a passport he has no option but to go back to Oz.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He may have hung on to his Diplo pp and been using it even after leaving the 'job'.

Who knows!!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

He hasn't been a diplomat for years!!

Without a passport he has no option but to go back to Oz.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He may have hung on to his Diplo pp and been using it even after leaving the 'job'.

Who knows!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would be long expired. Is the case in the Oz press ?

[udon]

Not on the ABC or commercial radio stns, but HM's comments on the army and police are being reported all over the world

I don't buy papers here, I'm still under house arrest.

[Kringle]

[davidjohn]

Whatever the case of it being "LEGAL" or not to have the child porn is totally irrevelent to me as I just see another kiddie fiddler or one in the making. Anyone that could see ANY good in having such material is SICK. I also feel that anyone that supports the rights of people to have or show such material are sick also. So he's innocent of having this material in this country, he's still a sick ######wit. Too bad to see so many farang teachers throwing support to such trash on this forum. It seems at times that this is all they can talk about, ( getting young boys).  I believe this only serves to bring lower respect of this forum as a whole. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree with you wholeheartedly. I have been amazed at what seems to be an opinion of support for and the idea the guy is innocent. Just because it is not illegal does not make him innocent.

I see no problem with the idea that it is illegal to sell and distribute but legal to own. British law says it is okay to have a small amount of drug for personal consumption but illegal to sell it. I am not a drug taker before questions are asked or comments made.

[Kringle]

[Ijustwannateach]

Let's try this again: The guy was INITIALLY charged with all kinds of hair-raising things- including "child procurement." There is NO evidence of this. There are NO witnesses coming to testify this. It's a smear job. They keep raising the issue of "child porn" to continue to smear the guy, without presenting ANY evidence of child porn. My gay friends recognize the titles of some of the porn mentioned in the articles- have told me the Thai guys in the videos range from 18-22.

It's folks who don't know what they're talking about who make assumptions about people's guilt by believing the idiotic corrupt Thai police and press who then get all emotionally riled up and demand their heads for things which they HAVE NOT DONE AND WHICH THERE IS NO PROOF THAT THEY HAVE DONE. Sheesh, I'm beginning to think we really SHOULD ban democracy and run the world by computer like they do in the U.S.

"Steven"

[rubl]

Agree with you wholeheartedly.  I have been amazed at what seems to be an opinion of support for and the idea the guy is innocent.  Just because it is not illegal does not make him innocent. 

I see no problem with the idea that it is illegal to sell and distribute but legal to own.  British law says it is okay to have a small amount of drug for personal consumption but illegal to sell it.  I am not a drug taker before questions are asked or comments made.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not quiet relevant to this subject, but being Dutch I'm still not a drug taker and have never even tried. People are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

I must admit though, it's mostly easier to believe the bad news rather than the good.

Keep smiling

[Dickie]

to represent only a small part of the hundreds of videos, photographs and magazines immigration police claimed to have found in Mr Scoble's home after the raid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The operative word here is claimed. Show me the proof that kiddie porn was found in his gaff. As others have said it sounds like a fit-up.

[Kringle]

Edited November 22, 2004 by Kringle

[marquess]

If the guy is guility let him go to jail. What I am concerned about here is the fact that that the police are trying to fit him up, with anything, that might fit. They could do that to anyone.

[Ijustwannateach]

Have edited out comments which no longer apply to other edited messages!

BTW, Marquess, that's reality in most Asian countries. The main difference is how much window dressing they bother to apply- in Thailand, it's relatively little [in Japan it would be more- they would beat you until you confessed]. Yet again, a reason for folks to keep their investment dollars OUT of here.

"Steven"

[Kringle]

Edited November 22, 2004 by Kringle

[PvtDick]

I'll edit all my posts on this subject as it is only my opinion and if the guy is not guilty then so be it, but if he is guilty, then what do you think is the right thing for the court to do. I guess I just hear so much shit about gays (mostly, not all but) being peddies in this country that it just gets me mad and I just voice my thoughts before everything is presented. I would feel the same way if it was a guy going after young girls, just like the german having sex knowing he has AIDS, sick MF.

  As far as what hapened to me has NOTHING to do with this type of case. This a case of messing with kids and I was having drinks got drugged and robbed end of story. If you can't grasp this concept then FORGET IT.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is just as much -- probably more -- pedo activity directed against young girls as young boys. Only a bigoted mind would focus on one more than the other.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think there is a point here about gullibility- some people seem awfully quick to give people/institutions their confidence. The point some of us are making is that FIRST this guy was accused of all kinds of horrible stuff- THEN, suddenly, when he's put on trial, none of this stuff is mentioned anymore and he's being set up on charges that are ludicrous at best ("selling" porn? Get real.). And yet, they've been successful in ruining his reputation because now folks who are waaaaay too ready to believe anything you see in the newspaper still remember those emotionally charged words- "kiddy porn" and "child prostitution" - and you accuse the guy by association.

This pattern is the same with the German guy mentioned- first it's 500 girls he's infected, then 100, now it's a visa problem and there's no confirmation from a *medical* source that he's even HIV positive. In his case, there definitely seems to be SOMEthing dodgy going on, but who knows what it is?

These patterns repeat over and over and over, especially when the initial accusation is about some kind of sexual crime. Haven't you noticed this? Do you just forget what the papers say and just believe the "new version" of every story is always the same? They're amazingly inconsistent and full of lies, and I'm surprised if you've been living in Thailand awhile and haven't noticed this.

Sadly, it is sometimes true that the person accused of a sexual crime IS guilty (both straight and gay as PvtDick points out). But with the unreliability of the news sources so well demonstrated, I'd say there's more than a reasonable doubt anytime we see charges of sexual crime that we should give the accused, who have no voice of their own in this corrupt country, the benefit of the doubt until *proven* guilty. Who's to say that after getting on the wrong side of someone you won't find YOURSELF in one of these situations someday? Thais and Thai sources of information can be dodgy in very serious ways.

Now, to answer your question. The only crime the guy is even accused of is "intention to sell pornography." They can't get him with actually selling because there are no witnesses to a sale. Frankly, the charge is ridiculous. The guy could easily have had what was on display in the courts (most of which is easily obtainable on Silom) for his personal use, even if it was 10 times as much. There were no multiple copies, as they admit, and all the stuff was in his home, not in his business, as they also admit.

But what if he was guilty? Ok, then, I think the penalty listed was 6000B and up to a month in jail. If he REALLY sold porn (and I can't believe it) let him pay 6000B and time served in the clink.

Now, they're bringing up this kiddy porn thing- that there is no law in Thailand to punish possession- but notice that they don't claim that the guy has any. This is just another form of journalistic smear. For example, let's say you get brought in to the police and they search your home and find 12 playboy magazines. Then, in the paper, someone writes:

"Mr. John Doe was brought in for blah blah blah. In his home there were 12 items of pornography. In Thailand, it is legal to own pornography, and the law does not distinguish between child and adult pornography."

Now, on the face of it, all those statements would be true. It is the *implication* that since it is mentioned in the article, you must have something to do with kiddy porn. Then you'd have 50 people calling for your head on a silver platter here on Thai visa, and a mob with pitchforks waiting for you in your home country- very convenient for those who wanted to make trouble for you. See how it works?

I'd suggest that you get much more suspicious, soon, of any journalistic stuff connected with Thailand.

"Steven"