Thaksin To Seek Political Asylum In Britain

[baanthale]

Sorry baanthale, you're jumping all around in your comments. Can you put together something more understandable and try again?

Okay, sorry if you didn't understand. My question was, do you know of any places in the world with real democracy, were the population do not have vote rights or any say?

[sriracha john]

No, for whatever reason that has to do with Thailand.

[baanthale]

No, for whatever reason that has to do with Thailand.

I think that have a lot to do with Thailand right now! As I understand it, one of PADs main goals with "new politics", is to take away vote rights for the majority of the population. But okay, thanks for being honest, then I know you don't want democracy for Thailand!

[sriracha john]

No, for whatever reason that has to do with Thailand.

I think that have a lot to do with Thailand right now! As I understand it, one of PADs main goals with "new politics", is to take away vote rights for the majority of the population. But okay, thanks for being honest, then I know you don't want democracy for Thailand!

You should slow down a bit before launching into some Pierrot-like histrionic distortion of what someone writes.

I was referring to your statement...

do you know of any places in the world with real democracy

and simply meant that Thailand doesn't have a real democracy.

Secondly, I don't agree with each and every policy of PAD, the same as I don't subscribe to every platform of the American Democratic Party of which I'm a member nor do I believe in every precept of the Methodist church of which I'm also a member.

[Plus]

YH, I was answering specific, numbered "accusations" against PAD supporters on this board. You, just like that poster, are trying to find some OTHER points on which you might or might not be right.

I also find it worrying how you throw your support behind low life thugs who has been harassing PAD (and Democrat) rallies for years and describe it as a struggle against fascism. May I ask you a question - have you gone nuts??? Don't be ashamed, you are not alone - lots of people who couldn't see themselves as supporting PAD ended up being tossed together with some truly despicable characters. Look at where Surapong, the hero of the student revolution, has ended. Look at how Colpyat completly lost his mind, look at Human Rights Commissioner Jaran who ended up throwing rocks at people, look at Nation's Pravit who can't to seem to find his footing anymore. And whatever has happened to Chownah?

There's no "third way", no neutrality, one way or another you are going to support one of the two opposing camps, no matter how much you try to stay above the fray, and when that choice is made, you'll have to live with all the negative stuff that is assossiated with the group of your choice. I'll take PAD over Thaksin fan clubs any day. You might not respect Tony Clifton or JK, but I'd choose them over Sunrise and Co anytime.

And with PAD - their agenda depends on their supporters, though eventually they might lose the touch with people who make them strong. At that point I'd thank them for all the good things, but it'd be time to part ways.

>>>>

Baanthale, I don't know any poster on this board who fully supports the "new politics" proposal. I think I'm the only one who thinks it's worth taking a notice of.

Nowhere in this proposal they want "to take away vote rights for the majority of the population", that's entirely your own idea. You thought it up and now you are having a good time deriding it. How clever.

They proposed that 70% of parlament would consist of representatives of various social groups. Representatives, people who represent someone in parlament.

Theoretically, I think that it might work because so far elected politicians do not represent people who voted them in. That's the reality, and it's a big problem, and "new politics" is an effort to solve it.

Practically, it's a non-starter anyway.

[Plus]

On another topic - I suspect that drug war, Shin sale, parlament dissolution and, most recently, Thaksin's escape have been "approved" by upstairs. In case of drug war they've been able to keep it under the carpet, but in the Shin sale and new elections they have copmletely misread the situation and lost control. Thaksin's passport issue still remains to be decided but it can go either way.

My point is - whoever is pulling the strings doesn't have full control anymore. People voice matters and it has been acknowledged by upstairs, whoever they might be. I suspect there's a whole bunch of people up there claiming the title of a real puppet master. Maybe Thaksin was conned that his advice was kosher.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Good to see that things finally begin to go Thaksin's way again. AND City had a decent victory today.

I really hope a big cleaning can be had in the courts and all the other institutions and commissions set up or sponsored by the military or by the constitution they drew up.. Then hopefully Thaksin (or someone like him) can be PM again and move Thailand forward again.

[dillon]

The silly thing is that Thaksin made the huge error of coming back home, virtually wiping out any claim that it was unsafe for him to be here.......After coming back he then - with the blessing of the judicial system - was allowed to leave the country with a convicted felon on the promise they would return to face the charges (yeah - RIGHT!!!).

What amazes me and I presume must be a point to consider is that the authorities must have weighed up some kind of damage limitation - ie do we want him here or do we want him away...

The point is that - as some one said - he is not being persecuted but being prosecuted.

I can not see him being given any kind of asylum in the UK as he jumped bail and fled with a convicted criminal. However i can see the UK hearing his case as the judicial system is one of "innocent until guilty".

What amazes me is that it seems to be an engineered plan from the country - having a coup and then desperate to get back to some political stability i feel they would rather him there than here.

If only, while he was in the UK they could press charges against him for humanitarian reasons or indeed if interpol could grab him for fraud and money laundering charges.

Not quite sure as to the complexity of it but surely the fact that he jumped bail with a convicted felon would be sufficient for Interpol to get involved. after all Thailand have a good reputation in assisting interpol in tracking down American and Europeans fleeing Justice from their neck of the woods.

[Plus]

I really hope a big cleaning can be had in the courts and all the other institutions and commissions set up or sponsored by the military or by the constitution they drew up..

Which insitutions are you talking about? The only one set up by the junta, the AEC, was dissolved in Juna. Court judges were appointed long time ago, when Thaksin was fully in power. The police, Dept of Special Investigation, Office of Attorney General - they all had their shake up after the elections with Thaksin's buddies and relatives back in place. Members of National Counter Corruption Commission appointed under Thaksin were busted for corruption themselves, I don't remember if the current set was appointed before or after the coup.

[sriracha john]

Good to see that things finally begin to go Thaksin's way again. AND City had a decent victory today.

other than a solitary soccer game, what things are "going Thaksin's way?"

[Heng]

Another day living and breathing free, collecting a nice sum of daily interest. It's the minor things that make life sweet.

[NanaFoods]

What happens in the Thaksin saga is certainly a point of interest, but whether he is extradited or not, I just hope that things change for the better in Thailand with regards to politics, justice, and ethics.

[jumnien]

I really hope a big cleaning can be had in the courts and all the other institutions and commissions set up or sponsored by the military or by the constitution they drew up..

Which insitutions are you talking about? The only one set up by the junta, the AEC, was dissolved in Juna. Court judges were appointed long time ago, when Thaksin was fully in power. The police, Dept of Special Investigation, Office of Attorney General - they all had their shake up after the elections with Thaksin's buddies and relatives back in place. Members of National Counter Corruption Commission appointed under Thaksin were busted for corruption themselves, I don't remember if the current set was appointed before or after the coup.

The Supreme Court judges have been speaking at PAD rallies! Impartial? Hardly. Criminal? Most certainly!

[baanthale]

YH, I was answering specific, numbered "accusations" against PAD supporters on this board. You, just like that poster, are trying to find some OTHER points on which you might or might not be right.

I also find it worrying how you throw your support behind low life thugs who has been harassing PAD (and Democrat) rallies for years and describe it as a struggle against fascism. May I ask you a question - have you gone nuts??? Don't be ashamed, you are not alone - lots of people who couldn't see themselves as supporting PAD ended up being tossed together with some truly despicable characters. Look at where Surapong, the hero of the student revolution, has ended. Look at how Colpyat completly lost his mind, look at Human Rights Commissioner Jaran who ended up throwing rocks at people, look at Nation's Pravit who can't to seem to find his footing anymore. And whatever has happened to Chownah?

There's no "third way", no neutrality, one way or another you are going to support one of the two opposing camps, no matter how much you try to stay above the fray, and when that choice is made, you'll have to live with all the negative stuff that is assossiated with the group of your choice. I'll take PAD over Thaksin fan clubs any day. You might not respect Tony Clifton or JK, but I'd choose them over Sunrise and Co anytime.

And with PAD - their agenda depends on their supporters, though eventually they might lose the touch with people who make them strong. At that point I'd thank them for all the good things, but it'd be time to part ways.

>>>>

Baanthale, I don't know any poster on this board who fully supports the "new politics" proposal. I think I'm the only one who thinks it's worth taking a notice of.

Nowhere in this proposal they want "to take away vote rights for the majority of the population", that's entirely your own idea. You thought it up and now you are having a good time deriding it. How clever.

They proposed that 70% of parlament would consist of representatives of various social groups. Representatives, people who represent someone in parlament.

Theoretically, I think that it might work because so far elected politicians do not represent people who voted them in. That's the reality, and it's a big problem, and "new politics" is an effort to solve it.

Practically, it's a non-starter anyway.

Plus, who have gone nuts!? So now you start to attacking posters witch can not even wright and defend them selfs here anymore. One can only imagine what kind of effort SJ and you needed to put in, to get ride of a GOOD poster like Colpyat, to keep the site as a campaign site for PAD and the ever quieter Democrats. Very low indeed, h-ll, he can't even answer for him self

PAD posters on the board don't stand behind "selected" Parliament idea?! But again, thats one of PAD's MAIN goals, isn't it?

70% "selected" parliamentary, that can ONLY mean most part of the population lost any right for a vote and a say!

You think "it might work", to have some generals decide on who's gone make decisions and run the country, I beg to differ! Just give me any example on a working democracy, were people don't have a say!

[sriracha john]

I really hope a big cleaning can be had in the courts and all the other institutions and commissions set up or sponsored by the military or by the constitution they drew up..

Which insitutions are you talking about? The only one set up by the junta, the AEC, was dissolved in Juna. Court judges were appointed long time ago, when Thaksin was fully in power. The police, Dept of Special Investigation, Office of Attorney General - they all had their shake up after the elections with Thaksin's buddies and relatives back in place. Members of National Counter Corruption Commission appointed under Thaksin were busted for corruption themselves, I don't remember if the current set was appointed before or after the coup.

The Supreme Court judges have been speaking at PAD rallies! Impartial? Hardly. Criminal? Most certainly!

It's been 5 days and you STILL haven't done the below? Perhaps a different frame style is more to your suiting...but remember, the important thing are the lenses anyway. It will help you tremendously.

There is a wonderful editorial in today's Nation documenting members of the supreme court speaking at PAD rallies

Try these on and go have another re-read of that article...

[sriracha john]

One can only imagine what kind of effort SJ and you needed to put in, to get ride of a GOOD poster like Colpyat, to keep the site as a campaign site for PAD and the ever quieter Democrats. Very low indeed, h-ll, he can't even answer for him self

He's attempted to do just that with 18 (and counting) different Nick's.

HE was very justifiably removed for not complying with forum rules that HE broke. Perhaps he should seek political asylum on britainvisa.com for being rightfully prosecuted and punished here.

Edited August 25, 2008 by sriracha john

[baanthale]

One can only imagine what kind of effort SJ and you needed to put in, to get ride of a GOOD poster like Colpyat, to keep the site as a campaign site for PAD and the ever quieter Democrats. Very low indeed, h-ll, he can't even answer for him self

He's attempted to do just that with 18 (and counting) different Nick's.

HE was very justifiably removed for not complying with forum rules that HE broke. Perhaps he should seek political asylum on britainvisa.com for being rightfully prosecuted and punished here.

Yes, I am not surprised that you know exactly how many times he tried to log in here. I suppose you are the one reporting him each time. He is not the only one breaking rules here, but don't think people are stupid, everyone here knows what's going on behind the scenes.

[jumnien]

One can only imagine what kind of effort SJ and you needed to put in, to get ride of a GOOD poster like Colpyat, to keep the site as a campaign site for PAD and the ever quieter Democrats. Very low indeed, h-ll, he can't even answer for him self

He's attempted to do just that with 18 (and counting) different Nick's.

HE was very justifiably removed for not complying with forum rules that HE broke. Perhaps he should seek political asylum on britainvisa.com for being rightfully prosecuted and punished here.

Yes, I am not surprised that you know exactly how many times he tried to log in here. I suppose you are the one reporting him each time. He is not the only one breaking rules here, but don't think people are stupid, everyone here knows what's going on behind the scenes.

Interesting that no right-wing pro-PAD, pro-military junta, pro-Supreme Court posters have been prosecuted. Thaivisa is quite the microcosm of Thailand, in general!

[christcourt]

Considering the UK has now implemented an extradition treaty with the US and a UK citizen has no protection in extradition to an American court, It will be diabolical if Thaksin gets granted asylum.

But the UK has become a rich mans paradise with lots of lovely tax avoidance loop holes in place - its just its own whom get sh6t on at a regular basis.

Bullshit!! Rich mans paradise thats a laugh!

[christcourt]

yeah everyone on the street seems real torn up about it

I agree, as the only people upset are the army of officials in Bangkok as they haven't been caught YET themselves. Outside Bangkok he is still "looked up to" and its better he didn't come back because the court case will cause the nation unrest and more.

[younghusband]

One can only imagine what kind of effort SJ and you needed to put in, to get ride of a GOOD poster like Colpyat, to keep the site as a campaign site for PAD and the ever quieter Democrats. Very low indeed, h-ll, he can't even answer for him self

He's attempted to do just that with 18 (and counting) different Nick's.

HE was very justifiably removed for not complying with forum rules that HE broke. Perhaps he should seek political asylum on britainvisa.com for being rightfully prosecuted and punished here.

It seems this poster is so lacking in self awareness that he can't see how psychotic his words -18 and counting- reveal him to be.Colpyat provided a unique and interesting perspective and is much missed.It's really a shame when a forum is dominated by one viewpoint since it's much more instructive when there is a good tempered to and fro of ideas.

[sriracha john]

One can only imagine what kind of effort SJ and you needed to put in, to get ride of a GOOD poster like Colpyat, to keep the site as a campaign site for PAD and the ever quieter Democrats. Very low indeed, h-ll, he can't even answer for him self

He's attempted to do just that with 18 (and counting) different Nick's.

HE was very justifiably removed for not complying with forum rules that HE broke. Perhaps he should seek political asylum on britainvisa.com for being rightfully prosecuted and punished here.

It seems this poster is so lacking in self awareness that he can't see how psychotic his words -18 and counting- reveal him to be.Colpyat provided a unique and interesting perspective and is much missed.It's really a shame when a forum is dominated by one viewpoint since it's much more instructive when there is a good tempered to and fro of ideas.

Apologies if you missed that the 18 was a completely facetious number to reflect the desperate nature of his attempted return. Lord only knows how many actual times he's been sent packing although I would imagine it's probably been nearly at least that many times.

What exactly got his original Nick banned? It was for not complying with the forum rules. Which forum rules? Which forum rule is so difficult to follow and comply with? And why, after he had been warned and disciplined for breaking the rules, would he repeat the same infractions time after time after time after time?

It's sort of like your flaming in that regard...

Realizing that this is an really only suited as an admin/mod issue, I'll defer further in the hopes that we can return to the topic of the thread.

Edited August 25, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Commentary

Thaksin may fight on, but for how long?

When former PM Thaksin and his wife flew from Beijing to London to escape the law in Thailand about two weeks ago, the country appeared to heave a big sigh of relief. Many of us thought that, at long last, there was a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel now that the single man who was blamed for much of the biggest political divide ever seen in this country was out of the political picture and was not expected to come back in the foreseeable future. This may be too premature. Although our worst fear of a violent clash between pro- and anti-Thaksin forces has considerably subsided, we are not yet out of the woods as Thaksin has not thrown in the towel yet even if he is not around for months to come. How gullible we are to misjudge and to underestimate a self-righteous and stubborn man like Thaksin. Despite the legal odds against him, he is not likely to give up easily. This was evident in the terse handwritten statement sent back home from London the day he landed there to start his new life in exile as a fugitive. He urged his supporters to have patience and to wait for his return some day in the future "when his day has come". Distance, no matter how far, does not pose an obstacle for Thaksin. It has been proven time again that he has managed to pull the strings from behind for several political events which took place here when he took political refuge overseas following the 2006 coup. He has demonstrated that he is

- by Veera Prateepchaikul, Deputy Editor-in-Chief, Post Publishing Co Ltd.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/250808_News/25Aug2008_news16.php

Edited August 25, 2008 by sriracha john

[younghusband]

One can only imagine what kind of effort SJ and you needed to put in, to get ride of a GOOD poster like Colpyat, to keep the site as a campaign site for PAD and the ever quieter Democrats. Very low indeed, h-ll, he can't even answer for him self

He's attempted to do just that with 18 (and counting) different Nick's.

HE was very justifiably removed for not complying with forum rules that HE broke. Perhaps he should seek political asylum on britainvisa.com for being rightfully prosecuted and punished here.

It seems this poster is so lacking in self awareness that he can't see how psychotic his words -18 and counting- reveal him to be.Colpyat provided a unique and interesting perspective and is much missed.It's really a shame when a forum is dominated by one viewpoint since it's much more instructive when there is a good tempered to and fro of ideas.

Apologies if you missed that the 18 was a completely facetious number to reflect the desperate nature of his attempted return. Lord only knows how many actual times he's been sent packing although I would imagine it's probably been nearly at least that many times.

What exactly got his original Nick banned? It was for not complying with the forum rules. Which forum rules? Which forum rule is so difficult to follow and comply with? And why, after he had been warned and disciplined for breaking the rules, would he repeat the same infractions time after time after time after time?

It's sort of like your flaming in that regard...

Realizing that this is an really only suited as an admin/mod issue, I'll defer further in the hopes that we can return to the topic of the thread.

Oh being facetious were we? Well that's a welcome change.Perhaps you will also stop accusing me of flaming whenever you have a disagreement.

As to forum rules I agree they are to be respected but given the elephant in the room there is inevitably a certain amount of tip toeing around.Othe well respected Thai blogs quite frequently comment on this.Whatever you say about Colypat he brought a distinctive voice to proceedings.If he broke forum rules so be it, he paid a price.But being thrown off a forum doesn't mean one is wrong.

[christcourt]

Public spotlight that PAD brings to politics makes it very difficult for anyone to deviate from the prescribed course of actions even if they wanted to. The decisions are made on the streets and by the civil society, not by backroom deal makers.

I wonder where they were when the militairy took control, oh yeah that's right, they had their mission accomplished with help of the militairy.

There were back in the "barracks" for six months. PAD stopped their rallies in the run up to the failed April elections.

For a group which (at least originally) described themselves as pro-democracy, their lack of protest post-coup was deafening. They even disbanded two days afterwards (and disbanded the political party they set up in May). Sounds like "mission accomplished" to me. Oh, it wasn't "mission accomplished", it was "goal accomplished"...

I would like them to seek justice for the Thai People that democratically choose a government but were made irrelvant by those criminals that carried out the coup, but of course they only want justice for one person and one person only. Why are these criminals not on trail, surely they have commited greater crimes then the crimes that Thaksin and his wife have been charged with.

At the moment of the coup there was no democratically elected government, no parlament, no senate. There was a "caretaker" government that consitutionally was supposed to last for three months only, and it was headed by a PM who went back on his very public promise to stay away from politics.

The courts were asked by the highest power in the land to sort out the political void; not the army. The army, contrary to the PAD's "New Politics" farce, should have no part to play in politics, and coups are pure and simple treason (until you change the law ex post facto of course).

Democracy has nothing do with with decisions being made on the street, and I hope for the sake of Thailand, they are not made by the PAD. A good example is the Cambodian Temple crisis. Where a perfectly sane deal has been stopped, because the said minister was giving away territory to Cambodia. Everyone but the PAD knows that this was certainly not the case, you cannot give away what you don't own.

You can present your arguments in the relevant thread, in short, Noppadon gave away the historical value of the land and communities on the Thai side of the border and put a seven country commitee in charge of disputed territories that Thais claim as their own.

The original plan included provision for a Thai-Cambodian team to manage the disputed areas for their mutual benefit; the seven country committee was only proposed after the PAD and allies forced Thailand to withdraw the plan. You know this, and admitted yourself at the time that the original plan was better than the mess we've now got. To now try and imply that it was Noppadol who has wilfully put Thai territory under foreign control is a distortion of the truth in context. It's exactly the kind of half-truth the PAD use to try and stir up nationalistic fervour to their own ends; the ouster of the democratically elected government.

1) Distaste for democracy. The rural poor are too ignorant to have a vote

2) Support for military intervention if it threatens the established old guard.

3) Supportive of individuals using politics as a vehicle for personal revenge

4) Selective justice. Prosecuting some but ignoring the crimes of others.

Strawman arguments - all your points are made up by yourself.

Among PAD supporters on this board:

1. I don't know anyone who rejects the results of the recent elections

2. I don't know anyone who thinks the coup was staged to protect the old guard

3. I don't know anyone who thinks that Sondhi is driven only by his personal revenge and doesn't believe in his stated cause

4. I don't know anyone who doesn't acknowledge any of the countless lawsuit against Thaksin's opponents

1) The PAD's vision of "New Politics" is regressive. It is designed to limit the power of the rural voters (or as you so poetically call them, "truly fuc_ked up people") who they feel do not deserve an equal vote to the rest of the population. As to your point, there have been plenty of comments and implications on the board by PAD supporters rejecting the elections as bought rather than won.

2) "New Politics" seeks to take control of the military away from the government and place the government under the military, enshrining it the power to take over if certain vague conditions are met. What's the last coup got to do with it?

3) Sondhi's involvement in politics only started after his nose was pushed out of Thaksin's trough. Was it the only reason? No, probably not. But would Sondhi have become a "champion of democracy" had that not happened? Hmm...

4) Where has the PAD been campaigning for justice against anybody bar its political foes? What has your comment got to do with the original point?

The PAD had a certain amount of legitimacy in the beginning when its role was to highlight some of the abuses of power within the TRT government (although as stated, IMO it was started only after Sondhi and Thaksin fell out). It has now morphed into some kind of nationalist, seditious, oligarchic monster; I'm pretty surprised that some of those who railed against (perceived or actual) anti-democratic practices of politicians in the past can stand behind the even more anti-democratic proposals of this lot. It beggars belief.

As to those who hold no love for democracy, fair enough. Then it just becomes an agree-to-differ issue on the merits of various forms of government.

Well said Meerkat. I live up in the NE and can only say from speaking to numerous village and town people and that includes some friends who are police. The "Mouthing off" by Sondhi and his paid demonstators on daily attacks on Thaksin has lowered the moral of the whole country and should he be convicted will only cause total unrest.

Much better to leave Thaksin alone in his exile and let the PPP goverment do its job of running this country who were voted in by the majority of the thai people Without a Coup plus help from the PAD !!.

LET's Move On !!

[Plus]

I didn't comment on whether he was right or wrong (not including the offensive posts that got him banned), but his desperate attempts to re-register with different names and post yet more garbage were simply pathetic. Every time he did that he was banned for breaking the same rules over and over again.

[Artisi]

Christcourt

Well said Meerkat. I live up in the NE and can only say from speaking to numerous village and town people and that includes some friends who are police. The "Mouthing off" by Sondhi and his paid demonstators on daily attacks on Thaksin has lowered the moral of the whole country and should he be convicted will only cause total unrest.

Much better to leave Thaksin alone in his exile and let the PPP goverment do its job of running this country who were voted in by the majority of the thai people Without a Coup plus help from the PAD !!.

LET's Move On !!

Can you plese cite some evidence real evidence that PAD demonstrators are being paid - not the 3rd cousins ex boy-friend's uncle who is a retired policeman knows these things - then and only then will your ill-informed comments be worth any consideration.

[Tony Clifton]

One can only imagine what kind of effort SJ and you needed to put in, to get ride of a GOOD poster like Colpyat, to keep the site as a campaign site for PAD and the ever quieter Democrats. Very low indeed, h-ll, he can't even answer for him self

He's attempted to do just that with 18 (and counting) different Nick's.

HE was very justifiably removed for not complying with forum rules that HE broke. Perhaps he should seek political asylum on britainvisa.com for being rightfully prosecuted and punished here.

Yes, I am not surprised that you know exactly how many times he tried to log in here. I suppose you are the one reporting him each time. He is not the only one breaking rules here, but don't think people are stupid, everyone here knows what's going on behind the scenes.

Interesting that no right-wing pro-PAD, pro-military junta, pro-Supreme Court posters have been prosecuted. Thaivisa is quite the microcosm of Thailand, in general!

I am somehow reminded of that tuba/horn sound when someone failed on the Price Is Right.

price_right_loser_sound.mp3

Both front lines have taken casualties.

John K has suffered the same faith as Colpyat although he never reincarnated 14 times over.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/member-list.html

[Bangyai]

On another topic - I suspect that drug war, Shin sale, parlament dissolution and, most recently, Thaksin's escape have been "approved" by upstairs. In case of drug war they've been able to keep it under the carpet, but in the Shin sale and new elections they have copmletely misread the situation and lost control. Thaksin's passport issue still remains to be decided but it can go either way.

My point is - whoever is pulling the strings doesn't have full control anymore. People voice matters and it has been acknowledged by upstairs, whoever they might be. I suspect there's a whole bunch of people up there claiming the title of a real puppet master. Maybe Thaksin was conned that his advice was kosher.

Well Plus, this deep reflection and suspicion is an interesting volte face on your part. So can we conclude from these comments that it is your new humble opinion that Thai politics does not live in a bungalow and that you think somebody upstairs has been pulling puppet strings ?

Edited August 25, 2008 by Bangyai

[younghusband]

Nobody has ever said Thaksin shouldn't be brought to account for human rights abuses.Sophisticated observers know precisely why he hasn't.Do you?

It's a slovenly and patronising convention that rural voters are brought for a few hundred Baht.Sophisticated observers know it is a misleading and simplistic view.Do you?

When the Blackshirts provocatively entered London's East End (exactly like PAD determined to provoke an incident) they were knocked around badly by workers, Jews and Communists.Yes there were bloody noses and broken bones.Sophisticated observers might see a parallel with the PAD provoking trouble in TRT's home base at Udon.Do you?

It is a characteristic of intellectual impoverishment to resort to abuse in the absence of valid argument.Sophisticated observers understand that.Do you?

Do you see a sophisticated observer when you look in the mirror?

Or do you see someone who runs away from arguments/debates when they are being bettered, and/or have no substance to their argument?

Sophisticated readers of these forums understand. Do you?

Don't usually bother with this fellow for obvious reasons.However I think that's the first time I've been accused of running away from an argument.It's true that when exchanges become very intensive I sometimes overlook responding to serious posts.