Thats It!

[Lickey]

I forgot the hired in tractor price on my labour/costs list,

400bht a rai with a 4disc, we use the same fella everytime, the driver is not the owner,

Where possible he will disc as deep as possible, and while he has a break or does another bit, thats when we spread the bat guano, then he comes back to crosscut,

Another rai he will do in the rubber trees, so to do 1 rai twice, i presume he should charge for 2rai?

In fact if this is right, he done 5rai for 850bht, plus of course a bag of goodies [beers bacy sweets for his kids]total 120bht.

When we went to the yard to pay, i saw a big diesel tank with no meter,,, ,,,

So i suppose its a plus for us to find someone whoes willing to go the extra mile for a drink ect, but not good news for you farmers who hire out machinery with a thai opo.

All our labour is casual, we have a regular gatekeeper/turnkey who lives opposite the only vehicle access to the farm, he gets about 10% of the papaya profit by helping the market lady picking and bagging ect.

Since i posted our farm labour bills and prices, only MF has said its about right, he runs a very big operation, and obviously has got it all worked out.

So what about you smaller farmers like me, what do you pay?

Thanks, Lickey..

[DaveD]

My wife hires the workers and while working in the rice paddies, she works along side of them. My wife is 40 years old and I hate to see her come dragging home covered in mud but she says it's her duty to plant her own rice and if she isn't working with them, the job won't be done properly.

That's the way to go. When you employ people, you have to show them you know the job so they can't fool you. Once you've done that, things get much easier.

It's not easy to be a boss

I tend to agree, the boss can set the pace and the workers will follow.

I've got a lot of employees in Bkk, they're a constant headache but definitely not lazy. Unless my wife organizes things it's a complete mess.

We have a guy look after our land and he does an excellent job. He quotes a job by how many days it'll take and if he finishes early he'll find other things to do, even though we're not there and he is being paid for the job, not by the day. He had 10 rai with his wife, but she got the lot when they divorced. Now he has nothing except a good work ethic from being self employed for 25 yrs.

We pay him B250 a day, I think he's well worth it because of his excellent knowledge. Two months ago the Bkk Chinese-Thai down the road told me I was paying him too much and complained pushing wages up. The other day he told me he'd watched the guy work and I was getting my money's worth.

I think we're lucky to find him.

hi and thank you for your post.

my own experience with employing guys in farngland ,is similar.

if a guy is no good .paying him more money wont make him better .Find a way to let him go>

If you are lucky to find a skillful guy with a sense of reponsibillity,give him responsibillity.it will increase his sense of self worth.

Pay him more ,it wont make him better ,but it might make him stay and a with his increased responsibillities will help him grow into his job.

As far a thai labour goes .my wife and i are thinking about employing a thai couple full time .to give them a place to live ,and expect full time co-operation and loyalty.The returns for them would be enormous if we could find the right people.

Im into solid guys with a wife and family with a concept of future improvement ,but i dont know if it would work.

i guess a lot of you guys have been down this road and i welcome advice.

regards

Dave

[somo]

Maizefarmer & Khonwan.

Thanks for the info on fuel. Your figures vary a bit but it gives me a good ball park figure to

base things on.

We bought 26 rai earlier this year but only 12 rai was cleared so have planred that. The other 14 rai

we have cleared with a macro but it is not ready for ploughing yet so that will be added next year.

In a separate location We have leased 15 rai (36,000 Baht for 5 years) and planted that.

If things work out I will add 30 or 40 rai each year as I feel I will need at least 150 rai (maybe 200)

To get the economies of buying my own machinery and start making some reasonable money.

Renting land seems a good deal as at about 500 Baht/rai/year it is a cheap way to get started. The idea is then

to use the profits to buy more land as a longer term investment. Hopefully ploughing back in the profits from what we have started

will make it the expansion self financing after a couple of years.

[Maizefarmer]

You and Khonwan dont define any circumstances - but any of those factors I highlighted plus and land condition could easily see 3 or 4 litres per rai - so don't be suprized.

[slapout]

Fuel consumption for various size tractors old and new models as they come out used to be checked by Ag groups and even some Universities. I remember a test result being presented with a JD one year about 95 hp which used close to 6 gallon per hour under load conditions. Seems like Nebraska tests were the most prevelent and trust worthy

[Maizefarmer]

Nebraska Tractor Test Laboratory is indeed the big name in tractor testing.

Most manufacturers send their new models to NTTL for testing and the published results are respected figures in the industry - seen as impartial and free of the seldom repeatable circumstances that surround manufacturer tests (especialy power output and fuel consumption figures). A good referance for comparative tractor performance data.

By way of interest NU's figures for the 75hp Ford 6610 (2WD non-turbo - the most common big tractor in Thailand) the figures are:

Full power, full throttle (2200rpm) 15,5 litres per hour

Full throttle, 50% load (2200rpm) 11,5 litres per hour

50% throttle, 50% load (1200rpm) 10,0 litres per hour

[Smithson]

It's common to hear complaints about Thai workers, however without experience as an employer in another country it's difficult to know how things are in comparison. It's difficult to expect a lot from ppl when the wages are so small (B150), however increasing the wages may not help the situation.

I think a lot of the problems are around leadership. If a family member plays a leadership role things can go well, providing this person is concerned and hard working. The difficult thing is employing team leaders. We've almost given up at this.

There are many capable, hardworking ppl over here, you'll see them everyday running their own business.

[farmerjo]

The best employees are deere john,case&new holland,if you treat them well they turn up on time,dont complain,do a perfect job and are on standby 24 hours a day

[IsaanAussie]

I forgot the hired in tractor price on my labour/costs list,

400bht a rai with a 4disc, we use the same fella everytime, the driver is not the owner,

Where possible he will disc as deep as possible, and while he has a break or does another bit, thats when we spread the bat guano, then he comes back to crosscut,

Another rai he will do in the rubber trees, so to do 1 rai twice, i presume he should charge for 2rai?

In fact if this is right, he done 5rai for 850bht, plus of course a bag of goodies [beers bacy sweets for his kids]total 120bht.

When we went to the yard to pay, i saw a big diesel tank with no meter,,, ,,,

So i suppose its a plus for us to find someone whoes willing to go the extra mile for a drink ect, but not good news for you farmers who hire out machinery with a thai opo.

All our labour is casual, we have a regular gatekeeper/turnkey who lives opposite the only vehicle access to the farm, he gets about 10% of the papaya profit by helping the market lady picking and bagging ect.

Since i posted our farm labour bills and prices, only MF has said its about right, he runs a very big operation, and obviously has got it all worked out.

So what about you smaller farmers like me, what do you pay?

Thanks, Lickey..

Lickey,

We only have 16 Rai that we call our own and another 50 odd that belongs to the family. So I suppose that qualifies me as a small farmer. Further we are located in Sisaket which is definitely at the lower end of the income and wealth scale. I have made every one of the "mistakes" stated in this thread at some stage or other, and I am sure I'm not alone. I would offer this, take a step back and understand we are in Thailand with all it's cultural differences, things are a lot better if you try to work with what you have rather than what you had at home.

My wifes brother and her brother in law now organise all the labour and supervise the important jobs. This is after the three of us have discussed (lots of sketching, pointing and hand gestures) and agreed what is to be done. They know the people and the needs of the individuals in the village so their judgement is much better than mine when it comes to keeping everyone happy. I feel this is key to farangs such as myself, not doing the worrying about details, but keeping your eye on the objective. We all know that something will go wrong each day that needs to be fixed and I find getting it fixed quickly helps with the quality issue. Knowing that Mai Pen Rai is not good enough, that there is always tomorrow and that it is not a race against the clock, usually means I get what I am hoping for.

On the costs. Simple. 150 baht per day flat, no meals. Specialist skills are negotiated "Mot" total cost and final payments are negotiated by the BIL. I do not get involved in payments any more. All discussions on pricing are done privately inside the house, family only.

A few recent "growing pains".

I am building a 25x12 metre Bahn Moo. 60 Concrete posts 3 mtres long needed to be erected, firstly finding that number of sow chems that were anywhere near seasoned wasn't possible so most arrived as green concrete. Three ended up cracked somewhere between delivery and erection but they were duly planted anyway. Logic they are too expensive to waste. Reaction breakup the concrete footing and dig them out before it gets any harder. What about the broken posts? Cut them up and use them for floor piles at the low end and I will not have to buy special ones. No the neighbours cant have them.

Secondly. Just had the old house painted by a couple of handymen. Job finished and looked great so they asked if they shouldn't use up the last bit of paint. OK was the answer. The result was a 2 metre square blob of the wrong colour stain right in the middle of the FRONT wall of the house. Reaction, no I will not buy more paint to cover it up, tell him that every time he rides past he can see what a great painter he is. Mai Pen Rai.

And lastly roofing with corrugated iron or "Sun Co Se". Good luck in staying sane, I offer a new name for this stuff, "Suck It and See".

Isaanaussie

[Chaimai]

When you pay peanuts what do you really expect?

Roy gsd

If it's a quiz, I will go for ..... a barrel of monkeys - chai mai ?

According to Charles E. Funk, word historian:

"One monkey arouses a great deal of amusement. Two or more then double the interest and amusement. If one were to release a barrel full of monkeys, we must suppose that their antics would become hilariously comical."

^{Sounds about right}

[mijan24]

My wife hires the workers and while working in the rice paddies, she works along side of them. My wife is 40 years old and I hate to see her come dragging home covered in mud but she says it's her duty to plant her own rice and if she isn't working with them, the job won't be done properly.

GarryA in the same way a good friend just out of Khon Kaen has about 30 workers on 3 projects. his wife works in the egarden/yard all day of her own choosing but it also enables her to keep an eye on the work groups, her elderly father rises at 5am and supervises in his own way all happenings, from the building to the pigs to the 18 head of cattle, friend works offshore. Workers come and go all organised by good old dad who actually chides my friend for being too soft with the workers.

All I can say is what a great old guy.

moral of the story is "where there is a will there is a way"

[Lickey]

And so it goes on, 2 weeks ago i had 200 papaya plants ready to go in the ground, so mrs hired the labour to do this, all ok so far, planted in 2mtr sq rows,

Last weekend i said to mrs, these papaya are a bit young but lets get them planted to catch the end of the rain, another 200 odd, so labour [3] done that sunday, we went to look monday, and they had planted them 1 mtr sq, Mrs found mr Poo, and asked him why? he said these plants are smaller, she told me and i could not believe what i heard!! so today in the rain Mrs made him [alone] remove every other plant and re-plant.

I think all of you will remember Inspector Dreyfus in the Pink Panther films, im getting a bit like him with a nervous twitch and a snigger when mrs tells about the labour.

cheers, lickey..

[IsaanAussie]

I think all of you will remember Inspector Dreyfus in the Pink Panther films, im getting a bit like him with a nervous twitch and a snigger when mrs tells about the labour.

cheers, lickey..

Lickey AKA Dreyfus,

Only one question with Chaimai's recent post in mind. Do you have a leesonse for that minkey?

Cheers

Isaanaussie

[soundman]

And so it goes on, 2 weeks ago i had 200 papaya plants ready to go in the ground, so mrs hired the labour to do this, all ok so far, planted in 2mtr sq rows,

Last weekend i said to mrs, these papaya are a bit young but lets get them planted to catch the end of the rain, another 200 odd, so labour [3] done that sunday, we went to look monday, and they had planted them 1 mtr sq, Mrs found mr Poo, and asked him why? he said these plants are smaller, she told me and i could not believe what i heard!! so today in the rain Mrs made him [alone] remove every other plant and re-plant.

:cheesy::cheesy:

That is the funniest thing I've heard this week.

[bina]

got asked many times by Israelies, "are the Thai's good workers" and they were surprised when I told them how frustrating it could be here in the LOS.

In Israel the Thai's are held up in highest-esteem for their quality of labour work, compared to Arabs and other labour they use. And the Thai's work really hard for 1675 bt/day compared to 150 bt/day that they get here. So the old addage runs true "you get what you pay for".

here, in the larger groups of thai workers, there is always one who is the 'head'-- speaks english or hebrew, has a 'larger head' i.e. wants responsibility, most thais hate that, 'makes head hurt' , and this guy is the one that gets the pressure to make sure the others work as they should, he usually gets priveleges that others dont get, also. also, thia workers are more or less held captive by visa here, so are afraid to l ose their job cause they need three years to return borrowed money... but in general, much better and much nicer to work with, they also seem to prefer to work in things that are routine... they absolutely cant stand non routine work, or changes in schedule, and they have to be with other thai... average salary here 105 shekel /day (under minimum wage btw) and not wonderful conditions... but all folks here will agree, give us thai workers over anyone else including college kids in same orchards (catastrophe, that)

just read out what the complain was about thai labour to anon, cause i also dont understand it.. here they really are much harder workers then 'others'... he says that the work has to be the same all the time, one person decides, shows how to do it, does it, and doesnt change it... they seem to have no problem picking cucumbers for years, every day, 12 hours a day and never get really sick of it. i asked them (300 thai workers on same moshav picking cukes for the past few years... i would pull out my hair. anon hates changes in work also... ) probably off topic but i often wonder about the ocmplains i read about here on thai visa as from what i see here first hand they are great workers and pleasant too.

bina

bina

israel

[Sakeopete]

I'm lucky we live near the border, the father-in-law gets us teams of Khmer to do the work. They are far better than the Thais and reliable, we feed them better than the Thais and never cheat them so our family has a good reputation and always get workers. It can be difficult finding them during planting and harvesting so it pays to treat them well.

[GungaDin]

Hi Pete. ^^^

Remind me what Sakeo means.

[Lickey]

If our farm had plants that required a regular picking regime, i would certainly think about getting some Laos labour in, only 50 ks from the border, as it is, the banana lady calls every weekend ,we help her, and the papaya market lady comes every morning, Mr Poo sorts her out.

Recently, we have been selling banana and papaya outside the salon, we choose the best spot free banana before the buyer comes, near the gate at the bottom of the hillside farm we put 6 cuts of 7 hands each, Mr Poo come with his trailer and loads these up, then he pushes these up the hill to collect another 8 cuts! DOH!!!!, why not collect them on the way out??

He delivers them to the salon and i give him a bottle of beer, we cut them into hands and gas them, they are yellow in 36/48 hrs, if anybody wants info on gassing bananas, let me know.

Cheers, Lickey.

[Lancashirelad]

Fuel consumption for various size tractors old and new models as they come out used to be checked by Ag groups and even some Universities. I remember a test result being presented with a JD one year about 95 hp which used close to 6 gallon per hour under load conditions. Seems like Nebraska tests were the most prevelent and trust worthy

Indeed many uk farmers have found out the thirst of John Deeres. (aka Deere Johns/Jolly Green Giants) .... especially given current gas oil (red diesel) prices here of over US$1/litre

Many years ago there was a big sales drive here & on power output, equipment levels & price they got a strong foothold. But now many users have returned to their blue or red makes.

MF (that's MaizeFarmer not Massey Ferguson!) i note in the Nebraska tests you quote, several are tested running at full throttle.

Unless things have changed dramatically since my tractoring days, very few jobs are run at full throttle apart from road use when there is no pto load.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Lancashirelad

[Smithson]

they also seem to prefer to work in things that are routine... they absolutely cant stand non routine work, or changes in schedule, and they have to be with other thai... average salary here 105 shekel /day (under minimum wage btw) and not wonderful conditions... but all folks here will agree, give us thai workers over anyone else including college kids in same orchards (catastrophe, that)

just read out what the complain was about thai labour to anon, cause i also dont understand it.. here they really are much harder workers then 'others'... he says that the work has to be the same all the time, one person decides, shows how to do it, does it, and doesnt change it... they seem to have no problem picking cucumbers for years, every day, 12 hours a day and never get really sick of it.

Good post, I think the big difference is in Isreal the Thais have been motivated enough to leave home to work. Whereas the workers a lot of ppl are those who have never left the village or gotten any type of skill. It's understandable why the first group would be harder working.

I also agree regarding routine, Thais seem to like this. They also hate deadlines, even if it's not difficult to meet them.

[bina]

i guess that applies to any group that left one place to work far frm home. the motivation and the money and possibly also the circumstances (peer pressure, group living w/no family distractions, days of work from a.m. to p.m. drink a bit and sleep and back to work, its not really living, its just work... at home in village, its work, and living, so the attitudes change).

bina

[Smithson]

It's also good to hear from ppl with experience as employers outside of Thailand. I have a feeling it's not easy wherever you are, intelligent hard working ppl end up doing better things than picking fruit, digging holes etc. for min wage.

With our business (not farm related), we have no problem finding hard working honest ppl who do what there told. But after four years I've almost given up trying to find ppl who can supervise and take responsibility.