Dyno Station For Motorbike

[Bard]

I have been many places and Dynoed cars in Thailand but I never seen one for bikes, anyone have an idea of a place where they do dyno testing for motorbikes?

[hansgti]

Porsche garage veepawadee-rangsit rd.

I saw one outside the dyno room

Edited August 26, 2008 by hansgti

[Bard]

Porsche garage veepawadee-rangsit rd.

I saw one outside the dyno room

Excellent, thanks for the info. I will dyno the Ninja 250R and see for myself if it is the restricted EU version or as someone claim the un-restricted version we have here...

[Bard]

OK for anyone else who wonders where to dyno your bike here is an actual Dyno Jet station who will test your bike;

Tsukigi Racing Thailand

37/2 Moo 13 Tambon Bangkeao

Amphur Bangplee, Samutprakarn

10540 Thailand

Tel. : +662-721-8121

PS Sundays are closed

Anyone in Pattaya someone can dig up?

[dave_boo]

OK for anyone else who wonders where to dyno your bike here is an actual Dyno Jet station who will test your bike;

Tsukigi Racing Thailand

37/2 Moo 13 Tambon Bangkeao

Amphur Bangplee, Samutprakarn

10540 Thailand

Tel. : +662-721-8121

PS Sundays are closed

Anyone in Pattaya someone can dig up?

Excellent news. I shall hit them up next time I return to Thailand.

[Richard-BKK]

What is supposedly restricted on the EU version? I know that some 125cc motorcycles are restricted due to the motorcycle driver license. But never hear of any restrictions, in Europe, of 250cc. I know that there is a law in Japan that restricts the performance output of 250cc motorcycles (again for motorcycle license).

In most European countries they have two motorcycle drivers licenses one for anything under 125cc and anything over 125cc. Some countries, like the Netherlands, do not have the 125cc motorcycle drivers license and but have a 50cc license..... other countries have 80cc as limit for smaller motorcycles. Anyway it safe to say that after 125cc everything is unlimited...

Edited August 27, 2008 by Richard-BKK

[LivinLOS]

In the UK there is a 33hp (fits with the Kwaker spec) for riders prior to the passing of your open test.

This has all been brought in since I left but I think you do one 'basic test' which is very simple.. Then you have bikes restricted by age also 50cc at 16, 125 at 17) and after passing stage 1 you can ride only a 33hp bike until passing a much more stringent test.. They also target bikers with points knocking them out of thier full license much more than with cars (like not having both hands on the bars, silly silly stuff).

You often see larger bikes fitted with 33hp restriction kits for license and insurance there.

[Bard]

In the UK there is a 33hp (fits with the Kwaker spec) for riders prior to the passing of your open test.

In the entire EU and EEC there is a 33 bhp maximum class like in UK as LivingLOS is describing.

I question if the same thing is over here, as some call it un-restricted and there are no such rule in place here.

Because from all I have found of dyno from EU models is that if they put in a new full exhaust system they get much more power (around 20%) in the lower rpm's but they reach peak at 10k (1k previous to the spec) just a bit more than the stock version, and the curve then is dead flat all the way to 13.5k which proves the fact it's restricted from the fuel system somehow. So I will find out if we're lucky over here and be un-restricted or not by dyno the bike before and after exhaust mod. and see if I get the flat top as well or it continues like it's supposed to.

[Richard-BKK]

If it is true, and the EX250R in Thailand is somehow restricted, I cannot belief that Kawasaki would do that with an different exhaust system. Kawasaki uses a highly efficient production process and they can just program a few ECU's out of the production line to offer lower or higher performance specs.

This is one of the benefits of manufacturing motorcycles with a programmable ECU. IT is true that the EX250R shows good performance gain with aftermarket exhaust systems, but most performance gain is with the North-American "carburetor" version and not with the European one.

For the restrictions, I have in front of me EU rules list of motorcycles and cannot find anything what limits the performance of a 250cc on European level. It is possible that some EU member states have domestic rulings for that.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Richard-BKK

[LivinLOS]

For the restrictions, I have in front of me EU rules list of motorcycles and cannot find anything what limits the performance of a 250cc on European level. It is possible that some EU member states have domestic rulings for that.

I am absolutely sure of it.. As my little brother is just about to fly back to UK and was going to pick a bike up for a month or two, and dispite riding bikes for decade or so, these new laws mean he needs all kinds of new tests, when before he could have ridden. There was a grandfather period but hes missed that boat.

If you check it out I think its the 'direct access' system.

[Bard]

For the restrictions, I have in front of me EU rules list of motorcycles and cannot find anything what limits the performance of a 250cc on European level. It is possible that some EU member states have domestic rulings for that.

The rules are not for 250cc it is for middle class motorbike, you can have a 600cc resticted to 33 hp and drive as well. It is not the cc it is the class, and Kawa decided the 250 was perfect for this since it is around 33 hp in stock. But to make it legal middle class they put on a restricter so you can basically not tune it up by normal means such as new exhaust system. There are several ways to bypass it, so it's not a big deal. It does however not make any sence to have the restriction system installed on the bikes in Thailand, which is what I want to test out. By luck we won't have that issue!

[LivinLOS]

I once saw a 1200 bandit for sale with a 33 bhp restrictor kit !!!!

[Bard]

For the restrictions, I have in front of me EU rules list of motorcycles and cannot find anything what limits the performance of a 250cc on European level. It is possible that some EU member states have domestic rulings for that.

Here is the rule they comply with; "New EU regulations for motorcycle driving licenses state that a learner rider under supervision can ride a bike of any capacity, e.g. a 125 HP machine, but once passed the test the rider is restricted to 33 HP. (IAM Journal March 1995)."

You then typically after a period you can redo a new harder test to upgrade to unlimited motorbike.

Since the Kawa is very near 33 hp in stock they can put in a limiter to block modding, get it 100% legal and sell a lot of them since it's far cheaper than buying a 400cc with limiter installed.

[Richard-BKK]

I found it.... the ruling is a bit different but...

A. = "All motorcycles (no power restrictions)"

A1= "Authorization to drive all kinds of motorcycle (no power restrictions) will not be granted until drivers have two years' experience on motorcycles up to 25 kW, not exceeding 0.16 kW/kg. "Direct access" to unrestricted Category A possible for drivers aged 25 or over"

Two-Stage Driving Licence for Motorcycles

* The former Categories 1a and 1 have been subsumed into the new Category A. Nevertheless, this is still a two-stage licence. For the first two years, holders of Category A licences (minimum age 18 years) are restricted to motorcycles with a power not exceeding 25 kW and a power/weight ratio not exceeding 0.16 kW/kg (= at least 6.25 kg/kW). After these two years have expired, they may automatically ride all kinds of motorcycle (without power restrictions). A new driving licence does not have to be issued if the driver already possesses a driving licence in credit card format.

* Since 1 January 1999, drivers aged 25 or over have had the possibility of "direct access" to the unrestricted Category A. This means that once they have obtained their driving licence, they are immediately able to ride all categories of motorcycle.

* Drivers holding an old Category 1a or a restricted Category A licence who are at least 25 years old may obtain an unrestricted Category A licence before two years have expired if they take practical instruction and pass a practical test on a heavy motorcycle.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Richard-BKK

[dave_boo]

I KNEW there was at least one advantage to having grown up in the States!

All this talk about restrictions and classes; why so complicated? Let Darwin do his job and weed the idiots that buy a litre+ bike for their first bike out. The only restriction on motorcycle riding that they had in my home state was that for all riders less than 18 and those with less than a year or two of experience had to wear a helmet.

[Bard]

I agree with the stupid rules of the EU, Europe was a great place to grow up with no crap like after EU. Then came the rules, the regulations, the papermill started and it is just rolling on. That's why I live in Thailand

Anyhows after pestering Kawasaki and aftermarked dealers all over Asia, Japan who has the same unit as Thailand with Fuel injection came through finally. They confirmed that the EU model was restricted but only there, so that was good news. More so they gave me a dyno chart from a full aftermarket system which is 100% street legal in Japan, so it's still a bit restricted. The good news is there is no re-jet needs the ECU just re-jet the engine so it's very relieving to hear. I will install Area-P quiet core and Dyno before/after and see for myself what it actually does. But please find attached a dyno for Kawa 250 Ninja 2008 model with fuel injection with stock vs a Nassert R full exhaust system.

[dave_boo]

Odd torque graph; it drops off quite rapidly.

The horsepower keeps climbing though, all the way to the end which seems to correct the complaints I've read about it dying after 11k on stock setups.

[Bard]

Odd torque graph; it drops off quite rapidly.

The horsepower keeps climbing though, all the way to the end which seems to correct the complaints I've read about it dying after 11k on stock setups.

Yes, exactly which is why I already have an aftermarked system in the mail. I chatted with lots of owners who complain a 10k drop and a dying out at 11k which seems to be confirmed by the dyno. The aftermarked full systems seems to fix it, so I am pretty happy over that, but again I shall test it on the dyno station as well to see for myself what the Area-P Quiet core does for the bike. I know it's louder than stock, but all I really wanted was to rectify the bump and the flat top i heard and now seen on the dyno chart.

[Zzinged]

There's also a dyno at Red Baron. www.redbaronbkk.com

Not sure if they'll let you pay for a dyno run or not... they can be exclusive like that o.O

[dave_boo]

Odd torque graph; it drops off quite rapidly.

The horsepower keeps climbing though, all the way to the end which seems to correct the complaints I've read about it dying after 11k on stock setups.

Yes, exactly which is why I already have an aftermarked system in the mail. I chatted with lots of owners who complain a 10k drop and a dying out at 11k which seems to be confirmed by the dyno. The aftermarked full systems seems to fix it, so I am pretty happy over that, but again I shall test it on the dyno station as well to see for myself what the Area-P Quiet core does for the bike. I know it's louder than stock, but all I really wanted was to rectify the bump and the flat top i heard and now seen on the dyno chart.

Yeah, with that graph you can tell that Kawasaki did NOT set their rev limiter too low. I wonder what other modifications you would have to make to the bike to have it keep pulling till it banged up against the rev limiter? Even with the new exhaust it plateaus off toward the end. And with an ECU, it's not as if you can rejet your carb or add a bigger one........

[Bard]

Yeah, with that graph you can tell that Kawasaki did NOT set their rev limiter too low. I wonder what other modifications you would have to make to the bike to have it keep pulling till it banged up against the rev limiter? Even with the new exhaust it plateaus off toward the end. And with an ECU, it's not as if you can rejet your carb or add a bigger one........

Hi Dave well, Powercommander is coming out with a full ECU harness so you can map the fuel exactly right for the whole spectrum. Last update I got for it was late 08 to early 09... So I am waiting for that one, that re-jets it very nicely exact in combination with a dyno station and you will get perfect jetting, plus you can adjust the ignition timing etc. That will add a bit plus keep it coming to avoid the curve to drop, since it's getting lean at the top end.

You can obviously reflash the ECU as well, but I prefer setups I can remove and get it back to stock for e.g. an inspection, so I wait for the new powercommander.

[dave_boo]

Yeah, with that graph you can tell that Kawasaki did NOT set their rev limiter too low. I wonder what other modifications you would have to make to the bike to have it keep pulling till it banged up against the rev limiter? Even with the new exhaust it plateaus off toward the end. And with an ECU, it's not as if you can rejet your carb or add a bigger one........

Hi Dave well, Powercommander is coming out with a full ECU harness so you can map the fuel exactly right for the whole spectrum. Last update I got for it was late 08 to early 09... So I am waiting for that one, that re-jets it very nicely exact in combination with a dyno station and you will get perfect jetting, plus you can adjust the ignition timing etc. That will add a bit plus keep it coming to avoid the curve to drop, since it's getting lean at the top end.

You can obviously reflash the ECU as well, but I prefer setups I can remove and get it back to stock for e.g. an inspection, so I wait for the new powercommander.

Powercommander is the manufacturer of piggyback ECU harness I know of. With any luck it will be fully programable. Have you used any of the Dynos around Thailand? How expensive do you think it would be to get a bike base-lined and then fully tuned (assuming you were able to do it in a single day!)?

[Bard]

quote]

Powercommander is the manufacturer of piggyback ECU harness I know of. With any luck it will be fully programable. Have you used any of the Dynos around Thailand? How expensive do you think it would be to get a bike base-lined and then fully tuned (assuming you were able to do it in a single day!)?

Yes, it will be fully programmable the USB version actually they told me.

I never used dyno for motorbike in Thailand but I used it with cars, I never paid for the dyno since they installed turbo, new BOV, Intercooler, ECU harness, new injectors and fuel pump and sat it all up with the dyno. It was included in the package price of the gear I bought from them. So I really have no idea, I will call the guy in Samut Prakan when I get back home from offshore and ask him. I will also ask the guys at Bira since they run superbikes there, it really should be one station nearby somewhere, they might be able to give one in Pattaya area and a price for a full setup.

[dave_boo]

quote]

Powercommander is the manufacturer of piggyback ECU harness I know of. With any luck it will be fully programable. Have you used any of the Dynos around Thailand? How expensive do you think it would be to get a bike base-lined and then fully tuned (assuming you were able to do it in a single day!)?

Yes, it will be fully programmable the USB version actually they told me.

I never used dyno for motorbike in Thailand but I used it with cars, I never paid for the dyno since they installed turbo, new BOV, Intercooler, ECU harness, new injectors and fuel pump and sat it all up with the dyno. It was included in the package price of the gear I bought from them. So I really have no idea, I will call the guy in Samut Prakan when I get back home from offshore and ask him. I will also ask the guys at Bira since they run superbikes there, it really should be one station nearby somewhere, they might be able to give one in Pattaya area and a price for a full setup.

Thanks for the help. Where abouts in Samut Prakarn is the Dyno located? I lived there for a bit, and know the city pretty well. In fact, when I return in November, I'm going to spend a few days there minimum, so I'd love to get my CBR 150R done up right.

[tvmax]

Anyone know how much they charge for the dyno? Is it by the hour or per run? Do they help tune the bike?

Thank you