PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[JetsetBkk]

Truevisions/UBC just died.

Edit:

Sorry, false alarm - back again after 4 minutes.

(Getting a bit nervous here. )

Edited August 26, 2008 by JetsetBkk

[Jingthing]

There are times when protest is a good idea, and effective. But you have to have a COHERENT, hopefully ethical, message and a huge groundswell of POPULAR support, plus reasonable patience in timing. A good example is the US protests against the Vietnam war which I participated actively in. That qualified, and over time, it worked. PAD doesn't have any of this: its goals and intents are muddy and suspect, it does not enjoy huge popular support, and this mini revolt they just staged showed horribly poor judgment in going too far too fast without a proper foundation. They blew it. Any progress they thought they had won is now backfired.

Samak probably won't be PM so very long anyway.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Jingthing

[pazu]

You are joking right?

Protests brought the MAgna Carta and the beginnings of democracy to Britain.

Protests brought women the vote.

Protests brought independence to India and a great many other countries.

Protests brought the end of segregation to the US and the end of the Vietnam war.

Protests are what change things in a democracy.

indeed. the million man march, for example. protest is a democratic right and frankly a social duty. anyone thinks that protests solve nothing is talking out of their arse due to their head being firmly in the sand.

Nobody said protests couldn't change anything, but Thailand government has provided a very good way for the people to change their society, that is, by election. If the general public decided to choose a leader, you should accept the results even if you don't like it, keep protesting again and again just because people don't choose your leader, isn't democracy. It's stupidity, it's ignorance, it's dictatorship.

[Jingthing]

Thailand government has provided a very good way for the people to change their society, that is, by election.

Just my opinion, but I think most Thai people will tell you their elections don't change much of anything, except which group of scoundrels is raiding the honey pot. Maybe there will be another coup soon. Sooner or later again, and again, and again, pretty much for certain, yes?

Edited August 26, 2008 by Jingthing

[shawndoc]

Just my opinion, but I think most Thai people will tell you their elections don't change much of anything, except which group of scoundrels is raiding the honey pot. Maybe there will be another coup soon. Sooner or later again, and again, and again, pretty much for certain, yes?

I'm sorry isn't that how its supposed to work? Isn't that the US model that everyone wants to push?

/American

[Jingthing]

Just my opinion, but I think most Thai people will tell you their elections don't change much of anything, except which group of scoundrels is raiding the honey pot. Maybe there will be another coup soon. Sooner or later again, and again, and again, pretty much for certain, yes?

I'm sorry isn't that how its supposed to work? Isn't that the US model that everyone wants to push?

/American

US politics is off topic, but we have at least avoided coups. Thailand is the hub of coups.

[onethailand]

Crispin writes well though - certainly with more depth than I've experienced from the English-language print media here. I'd be surprised if Sondhi still has any editorial muscle there.

Honestly, I don't think Sondhi has ever exerted much muscle on Asia Times. From what I understood, the paper was basically free of interference - definitely a good thing.

Crispin is definitely one of the better writers - though sometimes he strays into murky waters. I've only ever met a few good writers in Thailand (of the journalistic type, that is) - sadly most of them aren't writing any more. None of the English language papers here have any real decent writers left.

Jetset - me too... I thought I was the only one

[tropo]

Please, moderators, is it possible for you to set up a news clippings area where only the news reports are posted on breaking news topics?

This thread is a good example of how difficult it is to seperate the news from many pages of political debate...being 29 pages long already.

Edited August 26, 2008 by tropo

[OJAS]

I have just spent the past few hours wading through the 29 pages of this thread, having been alerted to it by email. When reading the many and varied contributions regarding today's events in Bangkok, I am, for some reason, reminded of the UK fuel protests of 2000 - as detailed excellently in the following link:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A735022

The UK fuel protesters have most certainly not gone away, 8 years on. I am planning to move from the UK to Thailand at the end of October. Looks very much from this thread like I shall be jumping from the frying pan into the fire!

[LaoPo]

I have just spent the past few hours wading through the 29 pages of this thread, having been alerted to it by email.

why spent so much time ? The last 2 pages will tell most of the latest news...the rest is......history already

Focus on the future, always; one can't change the past.

LaoPo

[lifeisrandom]

what are they eating

where are tehy sleeping?

where are tehy going to the bathroom?

[lifeisrandom]

Please, moderators, is it possible for you to set up a news clippings area where only the news reports are posted on breaking news topics?

This thread is a good example of how difficult it is to seperate the news from many pages of political debate...being 29 pages long already.

try this

bangkokpost dot com

jeez

[OJAS]

why spent so much time ? The last 2 pages will tell most of the latest news...the rest is......history already

The last 2 pages didn't exist when I started on this thread all those hours ago

[OJAS]

Please, moderators, is it possible for you to set up a news clippings area where only the news reports are posted on breaking news topics?

This thread is a good example of how difficult it is to seperate the news from many pages of political debate...being 29 pages long already.

This was certainly done as regards Gary Glitter last week if my understanding is correct. Indeed, no debate on dear old GG was permitted, it would seem

[Tony Clifton]

Where's all mighty Samak?

Hiding in the washroom and nibbling on something again?

[cloudhopper]

There have been several interesting and informative posts on this thread hidden amongst the chaff. I am re-posting the following from a thread on the general forum, which appears to be the personal viewpoint of a Thai citizen, that IMO offers an excellent peek into the workings of the political system here and may offer further perspective on the current situation.

When the Thais have their elections there seems to be an element of "party hopping", meaning that politicians previously aligned to one party will jump ship to another party. Often huge sums of money are mentioned with the transfer or with the expectation of a better position. One reason I have seen is that they say they can only represent their supporters if they actually get into power, so by moving to another (winning) party they are able to benefit those that voted for them

You never (?) see this in the UK, for example.

To me it just seems like another tentacle of corruption.

Can somebody who has an understanding of Thai politics explain how it works?

in thailand there is an entrenched group of families that control certain areas, sometimes through bribes/paying for votes, sometimes through popularity, sometimes through intimidation, sometimes through a variety of all of the above.

Therefore, to form a government, a political party needs to get those families, and the best way is to buy them.

Hence.....if I was a rich telco billionaire wanting to form a party and win the election, I might claim think new do new, but in fact I could never get in without getting the support of the same families as the party currently in power.

So I might do a deal with say the Chidchobs in Buriram; where there is no way any other family could run against them (a fairly well known alledged mafia/strongman type figure that has held the political power in that province for probably 2 generations and the last 30 years) so I would offer them say 60 million baht to come to my party per MP, and then also give them a gauaranteed cabinet seat.

Ditto for Chalerm is Praseecharoen where alledgedly his gambling parlours and other illegal controlled businesses allow him to fund bought votes; so for that area I would also need to get him to switch parties.

The factions (which are like groups of families) Wang Num Yen etc etc I might say you get 2 cabinet seats, 60m per MP and I will help campaign on your behalf in a couple of marginal seats to get them to switch parties.

All this has to occur 90 days I think it is before an election.

This why the whole TRT think new do new mantra was a crock; other than Bangkok you saw almost the same faces; Sanoh, Chalerm, Plah Lai Banharn etc etc as had been in power under the previous supposedly inept government and most of the governments before that. And because there is a huge cost to building that power base, the resultant payoff has to be the level of corruption thereafter.

Since most of the parties have no real policy 'core' (it is crafted just to win elections, and TRT were the first party to actually even have a manifesto that people understood - low cost health, famer debt foregiveness, NPL asset management) there is no real reason why someone would not jump from party to party; other than a few minor independents or minor parties there are no hardcore capitalist parties, there are no rural farmer social welfare left wing parties etc etc. In fact, this current election cycle just been, effectively you had all parties with the same basic manifesto (the TRT approach of giving away everything possible to poor people short term to buy their votes, a few ideas for improving the economy as an afterthought) just that 2 were someone independent (Chart Thai, Democrats, Prachai's effort) and the rest were TRT funded offshoots of TRT's corpse with slightly different flavours, so in case one proved to be illegal or whatever, then there would be others to fill the void.

The 1997 Constitution was aimed at getting out of the cycle of unstable coalitions with a ruling party controlled via a few control mechanisms including the senate, the courts, national counter corruption commission, independent media and others.

Obviously, once someone came in and bought off every one of those bodies, then that system didn't work, so now the constitution has been changed and the senate has been changed to try to address that; however until a viable long term party system emerges then you will continue to see politicians jumping back and forth.

The payoff as a politician in the ruling party is about 20% on average of most govt contracts (alledgedly). Under TRT it rose to as high as 40% towards the end as most again alledgedly of course as we all know the Shinawatras are fairly litigious (alledgedly) because the factions and families demanded more and more for their allegiance.

As a member of the opposition the pay off is zero.

And that's also why the most sought after posts are the ones where you get to spend loads of cash. Defense, tourism, interior, agriculture, education, finance, commerce - all quite popular posts.

[LaoPo]

why spent so much time ? The last 2 pages will tell most of the latest news...the rest is......history already

The last 2 pages didn't exist when I started on this thread all those hours ago

If there are just 3 pages..there are always 2 last ones............

LaoPo

[lifeisrandom]

police are now cracking heads

edit: thats bad wording the footage i saw seemed pretty mild

Edited August 26, 2008 by lifeisrandom

[scyriacus]

It is well known that K. Thaksin has a PR office he contracts in Hong Kong to Comment and troll on online fourms blogs etc. There are a few of them here and I will let you discover for yourself as they are quite smooth and clever being the same office contracted by the CCP to comment on Free Tibet youtube videos so they are used to gaining trust by agreeing with both sides and then bringing down the hammer.

If you want to see history in action, spend an afternoon going though the history of the Thaksin Wiki page, you will see was nicely groomed up until a certain date, then he stopped paying the office to update and fight changes every hour - so the page reverted back to more like the truth.

the point being that all that posts here are not what they seem and this is just another front in their battle.

isn't it strange? i know nothing about that, but i do believe you. sounds probable................

[sriracha john]

I got to watch Thai TV for half an hour this evening - haven't seen any golf clubs or violence. There were shots of people in black t-shirts arrested this morning, but I'd rather concur with Sondhi - they don't look like PAD supporters, more like thugs who were beating up people at Central World two years ago almost to the day.

Hopefully tomorrow's papers sort it out, for now it looks like early morning raid on NBT wasn't PAD's work at all.

"bump" of the below..

In Pad's history the leaders have ALWAYS talked down violence and such.

These people talk and disrupt traffic, and not much more than be a BIG thorn

in the current government's side. They have no history of violence,

only being the victims of violence against them.

Just because stupid people are doing stupid things doesn't mean dark forces are at work nor is there any evidence to support your wild conspiracy theory. IMHO.

Arrested today was Nitirat Sapsomboon....

(let google take it from there)

[OJAS]

why spent so much time ? The last 2 pages will tell most of the latest news...the rest is......history already

The last 2 pages didn't exist when I started on this thread all those hours ago

If there are just 3 pages..there are always 2 last ones............

LaoPo

In that case, why did you choose to say "last 2 pages" instead of "pages 28 and 29" in your previous post, LaoPo?

Edited August 26, 2008 by OJAS

[jumnien]

why spent so much time ? The last 2 pages will tell most of the latest news...the rest is......history already

The last 2 pages didn't exist when I started on this thread all those hours ago

If there are just 3 pages..there are always 2 last ones............

LaoPo

In that case, why did you choose to say "last 2 pages" instead of "pages 28 and 29" in your previous post, LaoPo?

A bunch of drunken layabouts from Chonburi squat for the night at Government House. This story really has gotten a bit boring! Maybe the light of day will bring some good news like Sondhi receives badly needed psychiatric medication!

[Plus]

6 protesters injured as 1,000 police break into Government House

At least six people were injured during a clash with over 1,000 commando police armed with shield and baton broke through protesters' line into the Government House early Wednesday.

The injured protesters were sent to Watchira Hospital. They were hit during the clash with police at 3:10 am.

The policemen broke through the line of protesters at the Phitsanulok Gate. They later confronted protesters inside the Government House's compound.

http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30081631

[jumnien]

6 protesters injured as 1,000 police break into Government House

At least six people were injured during a clash with over 1,000 commando police armed with shield and baton broke through protesters' line into the Government House early Wednesday.

The injured protesters were sent to Watchira Hospital. They were hit during the clash with police at 3:10 am.

The policemen broke through the line of protesters at the Phitsanulok Gate. They later confronted protesters inside the Government House's compound.

http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30081631

Does Watchira Hospital have an Alcohol and Drug Detox program? I certainly hope these PAD employees get proper treatment!

Edited August 26, 2008 by sunrise07

[tropo]

Please, moderators, is it possible for you to set up a news clippings area where only the news reports are posted on breaking news topics?

This thread is a good example of how difficult it is to seperate the news from many pages of political debate...being 29 pages long already.

try this

bangkokpost dot com

jeez

I'm sorry if that suggestion upset you.

jeez

[jumnien]

"Chamlong Srimuang, a leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, Wednesday demanded officials to open up the buildings inside Government House compound to allow protesters to answer the call of nature."

So, General Chamlong is threatening to have his employees defecate and urinate on the house of democracy in Thailand. The Army generals, at least this one, has really gone too far in insulting the other 63 million Thai people! If Thaksin supporters threatened to empty their bowels at Army Headquarters, you'd bet that heads would roll. Unfortunately, he who has the armed tanks, calls the shots...

Edited August 26, 2008 by sunrise07

[lifeisrandom]

Please, moderators, is it possible for you to set up a news clippings area where only the news reports are posted on breaking news topics?

This thread is a good example of how difficult it is to seperate the news from many pages of political debate...being 29 pages long already.

try this

bangkokpost dot com

jeez

I'm sorry if that suggestion upset you.

jeez

not upset but you are like the 20th person to make the request like its too difficult for you to browse the news sites these articles are coming from.

if you are a senior citizen or "special" i apologize.

[george]

Police back off from confrontation with protesters

BANGKOK: -- At 6 am Wednesday, commando police pulled out of the Government House compound, backing off from confrontation with protesters there.

Protesters at the Makkhawan Rangsan bridge started moving to join the protesters inside Government House after the police forces left.

-- The Nation 2008-08-27

[Plus]

On, off, go, don't go

Police back off from confrontation with protesters

At 6 am Wednesday, commando police pulled out of the Government House compound, backing off from confrontation with protesters there.

Protesters at the Makkhawan Rangsan bridge started moving to join the protesters inside Government House after the police forces left.

The Nation

http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30081634

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

At this point Samak should resign simply for letting the situation to go this far, doesn't matter if he was right or wrong.

He can't fight a war of attrition with half of Thailand and call it "governing".

For now he can walk away with his head held high, just say sorry for not being able to keep the country at peace and go. No one would blame him.

[WISteve]

Thai riot police surround besieged Government House

by Thanaporn Promyamyai 14 minutes ago

BANGKOK (AFP) - Thai riot police Wednesday took up positions outside Bangkok's Government House, where thousands of protesters are camped out after storming the compound to demand the prime minister resign, police said.

Deputy police spokesman Major General Surapol Tuanthong said a few officers and protesters had received minor injuries during scuffles as police tried to break through the gates of Government House, but he vowed to avoid violence.

"Police have surrounded Government House and have taken up their positions. They are not going to disperse the crowd -- we are trying to negotiate," Surapol told AFP.

On Tuesday, up to 35,000 protesters seized a state-run television station, invaded the grounds of Government House and besieged at least three ministries in their efforts to cripple premier Samak Sundaravej's administration.

Surapol said about 8,000 protesters remained in the enclosure at the seat of government, but declined to disclose how many police were deployed, saying only that it was enough to protect public property.

"Police needed to reshuffle so that the officers who were on duty since yesterday (Tuesday) can take a rest. I still insist that as of now police will not use force to disperse protesters," he told AFP.

Army-run Thai television Channel Seven earlier reported that "thousands" of police were outside the seat of government, and said Interior Minister Kowit Wattana had entered the compound to negotiate with leaders.

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), which has been protesting since May, claims Samak is running the country on behalf of former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in a 2006 coup and is barred from holding office.

Most of the protesters remained calm early Wednesday, sitting on the manicured lawns of Government House and listening to speeches.

"This is the time that the authorities will storm into the Government House," Chamlong Srimuang, one of the protest leaders, told the crowds.

"They know they cannot let protesters stay because we will make trouble for the government. There are a lot of people who want to join us but have been blocked by the police."

Samak said Tuesday that the government's approach would be "soft and gentle," and said police would simply surround the seat of government until everyone had left and would not let the protests get out of hand.

"They (the PAD) want bloodshed in the country, they want the military to come out and stage a coup again," Samak said at a press conference.

"I will not resign, I will stay to protect this country," he added.

PAD protests in early 2006 helped lead to the putsch that unseated Thaksin, and the entry to government of his ally Samak infuriated the old power elites in the military and palace, who resented Thaksin's hold on rural voters.

Earlier Tuesday, police had kept a low profile as the protest mob made its noisy way through the streets of Bangkok, barely attempting to try and stop demonstrators as they broke down the gates of various state offices.

Yahoo News/AFP

~WISteve