Protest The Us Embassy's Unreasonable Visa Restrictions

[RY12]

Is there anything we can do? An appeal that US Embassy officers better inform their discretion on US Tourist Visa applications:

There are a lot of Americans on thaivisa that have had our lives and relationships seriously effected by the unreasonably harsh visa standards at the US Embassy in Thailand. While I understand the need of US immigration to stop the influx of illegal workers into the USA, I don't think officers at the Embassy are really furthering that by refusing a majority of the tourist visas for Thai girlfriends that have already and sincerely shown vast amount of paperwork and proofs-of-return. These women (or men), prospective spouses of US citizens, have sufficiently met the federal immigration statute's burden of proof and individual officers should reflect that better in the discretionary aspect of their decision-making process.

I can't imagine the number of Thai girlfriends who have actually abandoned their partners once they arrived in the USA is very high at all, but what is extremely high and undoubtedly definite is the disastrous effect visa-denial has on US citizens' personal relationships and life in general. The arbitrary decisions by embassy officers has serious implications for US Citizen's rights to visit intimate partners:

"No person shall... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law,..." 5th Amendment.

"And there are other spheres of our lives and existence, outside the home, where the State should not be a dominant presence. Freedom extends beyond spatial bounds. Liberty presumes an autonomy of self that includes freedom of thought, belief, expression, and certain intimate conduct [personal relationships]..." U.S. Supreme Court- Lawrence v Texas (2003)

What I purpose is that we appeal that the 'proof of return' standard generally be met for embassy officers by Thai citizens that can claim, or show evidence of, being in a real, personal, non-business relationship with a US Citizen. The US Citizen should also have a right to contribute to her application. Proof of property ownership, work-records, bank assets, photographs, or passport stamps proving a real relationship lasting longer than say 6 months should all be sufficient by their own to satisfy this proof for the officer. Don't tell me the officers are helplessly bound to US laws and can't change, they have broad discretion in the interview to decide who'd return to Thailand or not. I'm just appealing that they let their arbitrary discretion be informed by the above suggestions rather than their own biases. I'm not advocating for a big overhaul of the application process in one embassy in one little country, I know that would be futile; I'm merely requesting that the officers in Thailand, freely and of their own accord, consider public opinion and conform to countless other US Embassies across the globe that are more lenient and thoughtful in their desision-making process.

The fiance and marriage visas are NOT sufficient substitutes. A free man should not be forced to marry a woman just to visit her, he has a right to grow and mature a relationship just like any other citizen without marriage being a pre-requisite to having her visit his home.

It's probably futile, but should we Thaivisa members form a petition to give to our Senators? Would it make a difference? Should we give it to the Embassy instead? How many signatures could we get- 40 or 50?

(For all you rich or lucky farangs that got the US tourist visa the first attempt, and want to give some cliche redneck defense to the Immigration Department, f-ck off this thread.)

[JimmyTheMook]

It is a good idea but the system is and has been retarded for a long time and doubt a whole lot will change.

Makes the Thai visa laws almost seem within reason.

Side Note - you can complain to your own local congressman and they can take action and have notice sent to the clowns in the Bkk Embassy. I know of someone who took all the steps to push the right buttons this way and his wife was granted a visa after continually being rejected at the walk in counter.

[Jingthing]

Aren't these policies made by the State Department? Who is their boss?

[RY12]

Aren't these policies made by the State Department? Who is their boss?

The policies are actually reasonable ("sufficient proof that they will return"), it's the BKK Embassy's interpretation of those policies that suck.

I'm not advocating trying to change immigration law, that is pointless and too huge a task. I'm just wondering if we should get together a petition supported by our local Senators/Congressmen, that we could submit to the BKK Embassy, or site to when our gf applies for her visa (for example: "please take note that my host in the USA has signed and has the support of his Representatives to a petition for the discretionary process in this visa application")

Side Note - you can complain to your own local congressman and they can take action and have notice sent to the clowns in the Bkk Embassy. I know of someone who took all the steps to push the right buttons this way and his wife was granted a visa after continually being rejected at the walk in counter.

Really? Elaborate please?

[Jingthing]

OK, so the ambassador runs the embassy. But surely he is getting a message from higher up saying be tough to Thai ladies ... I still think its the State Department.

US immigration does discriminate. All countries do. US immigration is more trusting to people visiting from the UK than from Bolivia and these policies are set higher up.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Jingthing

[the scouser]

"sufficient proof that they will return"

If this is a verbatim quote from the relevant US legislation, it could be where the problem lies.

In the use of the word "proof" the highest evidential threshold is being imposed. The UK, for example, uses the lower civil threshold in which a statement "only" has to be shown to be likely or probable, rather than proven.

Scouse.

[Martian]

Is there anything we can do? An appeal that US Embassy officers better inform their discretion on US Tourist Visa applications:

There are a lot of Americans on thaivisa that have had our lives and relationships seriously effected by the unreasonably harsh visa standards at the US Embassy in Thailand. While I understand the need of US immigration to stop the influx of illegal workers into the USA, I don't think officers at the Embassy are really furthering that by refusing a majority of the tourist visas for Thai girlfriends that have already and sincerely shown vast amount of paperwork and proofs-of-return. These women (or men), prospective spouses of US citizens, have sufficiently met the federal immigration statute's burden of proof and individual officers should reflect that better in the discretionary aspect of their decision-making process.

I can't imagine the number of Thai girlfriends who have actually abandoned their partners once they arrived in the USA is very high at all, but what is extremely high and undoubtedly definite is the disastrous effect visa-denial has on US citizens' personal relationships and life in general. The arbitrary decisions by embassy officers has serious implications for US Citizen's rights to visit intimate partners:

"No person shall... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law,..." 5th Amendment.

"And there are other spheres of our lives and existence, outside the home, where the State should not be a dominant presence. Freedom extends beyond spatial bounds. Liberty presumes an autonomy of self that includes freedom of thought, belief, expression, and certain intimate conduct [personal relationships]..." U.S. Supreme Court- Lawrence v Texas (2003)

What I purpose is that we appeal that the 'proof of return' standard generally be met for embassy officers by Thai citizens that can claim, or show evidence of, being in a real, personal, non-business relationship with a US Citizen. The US Citizen should also have a right to contribute to her application. Proof of property ownership, work-records, bank assets, photographs, or passport stamps proving a real relationship lasting longer than say 6 months should all be sufficient by their own to satisfy this proof for the officer. Don't tell me the officers are helplessly bound to US laws and can't change, they have broad discretion in the interview to decide who'd return to Thailand or not. I'm just appealing that they let their arbitrary discretion be informed by the above suggestions rather than their own biases. I'm not advocating for a big overhaul of the application process in one embassy in one little country, I know that would be futile; I'm merely requesting that the officers in Thailand, freely and of their own accord, consider public opinion and conform to countless other US Embassies across the globe that are more lenient and thoughtful in their desision-making process.

The fiance and marriage visas are NOT sufficient substitutes. A free man should not be forced to marry a woman just to visit her, he has a right to grow and mature a relationship just like any other citizen without marriage being a pre-requisite to having her visit his home.

It's probably futile, but should we Thaivisa members form a petition to give to our Senators? Would it make a difference? Should we give it to the Embassy instead? How many signatures could we get- 40 or 50?

(For all you rich or lucky farangs that got the US tourist visa the first attempt, and want to give some cliche redneck defense to the Immigration Department, f-ck off this thread.)

Your anger should be directed at those who have abused the privilege and made it way too hard for an honest Thai (this is Thai board), especially a poo-ying, to visit the United States. I unequivocally understand your anger and agree for the most part that it is way too difficult to have a friend or love interest visit you in the USA. But it isn't the embassy staff nor ambassador's discretion, they are following directives from the immigration sector. After all, even if someone has a visa from the embassy, they can be turned away by immigration at the port of entry. I think that would piss me off more! An embassy visa means nothing unless immigration accepts it and the only way they accept it is if it was issued within the parameters they set for such.

Immigration rules and policies have evolved into what they are because of the usual reason, many people think that the rules and policies don't apply to them and they do what they want, be mad at them and maybe start lobbying to have all visa "over-stayers" and illegals hunted down, deported and everything they own seized as a fine except for enough money to get a bus home once they reach their own border (I'm not being sarcastic here). Perhaps when there is true repercussions to violating immigration policies, the illegals will stop, go home and the honest visitors can once again enjoy the privilege of visitation with reasonable documentation.

As to your last sentence, perhaps you should realize you are on a public forum and insulting posters such as myself will get you no resolution. No, I'm not rich but yes, was lucky to get my now wife a tourist visa but it was on the heels of trying to get a Fiancee visa that wouldn't work because I had to return to my job in Thailand. Completely different than trying to get a straight-away tourist visa. I had frustrations too but ended up with success in the end. My wife just passed her citizenship interview.

I would also suggest, at your displeasure I am sure, that your anger, attitude and contempt for the embassy staff may provide additional evidence that they made the right decision. One piece of advice: You get a lot farther faster when you show them respect, in public and private, and do things by their rules in their way on their schedule. They are in charge and when you recognize AND accept this, you might find success.

Sincerely wish you success in your endeavor and hope everything turns out good for you and your significant other!

I will be happy to offer any advice I can but stop with the insults, please.

Regards,

Martian

Edited August 27, 2008 by Martian

[Jingthing]

I don't really know about this, but one of the first people I met on my first trip to Thailand was a US embassy employee in a casual social setting. He told me: we treat the Thai visa applicants like shit. I didn't ask any followups.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Jingthing

[RY12]

Your anger should be directed at those who have abused the privilege and made it way too hard for an honest Thai (this is Thai board), especially a poo-ying, to visit the United States. I unequivocally understand your anger and agree for the most part that it is way too difficult to have a friend or love interest visit you in the USA. But it isn't the embassy staff nor ambassador's discretion, they are following directives from the immigration sector. After all, even if someone has a visa from the embassy, they can be turned away by immigration at the port of entry. I think that would piss me off more! An embassy visa means nothing unless immigration accepts it and the only way they accept it is if it was issued within the parameters they set for such.

Immigration rules and policies have evolved into what they are because of the usual reason, many people think that the rules and policies don't apply to them and they do what they want, be mad at them and maybe start lobbying to have all visa "over-stayers" and illegals hunted down, deported and everything they own seized as a fine except for enough money to get a bus home once they reach their own border (I'm not being sarcastic here). Perhaps when there is true repercussions to violating immigration policies, the illegals will stop, go home and the honest visitors can once again enjoy the privilege of visitation with reasonable documentation.

Hi Martian,

I don't think it's the case that the officials in the office are given "directives from the immigration sector," they're given vague instruction that the applicant should show 'sufficient proof of return' and each officer interprets that phrase to his own devices. I don't think Homeland Security sends down directives that say something like 'no ladyboys, ex-bargirls, or students under 24' or anything like that. Maybe I'm wrong? The result is that each officer gets in his mind what a 'returner to Thailand' looks like and if an applicant doesn't meet that standard, like she owns a house, has money in the bank, but doesn't have his idea of a 'business', then he automatically refuses her.

Getting angry at Mexicans like you suggest isn't going to do anything. All I want is to see what the thaivisa opinion is on getting together a petition or something, which may or may not work in making the process more fair.

As to your last sentence, perhaps you should realize you are on a public forum and insulting posters such as myself will get you no resolution. No, I'm not rich but yes, was lucky to get my now wife a tourist visa but it was on the heels of trying to get a Fiancee visa that wouldn't work because I had to return to my job in Thailand. Completely different than trying to get a straight-away tourist visa. I had frustrations too but ended up with success in the end. My wife just passed her citizenship interview.

I'm sorry you felt insulted, I directed my last comment to people who got the visa "and want to give some cliche redneck defense", not merely people who succeeded and want to give real input like you. Keep an eye on those conjuctions!

I would also suggest, at your displeasure I am sure, that your anger, attitude and contempt for the embassy staff may provide additional evidence that they made the right decision. One piece of advice: You get a lot farther faster when you show them respect, in public and private, and do things by their rules in their way on their schedule. They are in charge and when you recognize AND accept this, you might find success.

My girlfriend has never applied for the tourist visa. I'm not an idiot, even if she were to, I'm not stupid enough to show the officials anger or a lack of respect like you imagine I would. She hasn't applied because I don't want to risk the rejection, as that will just make it harder down the line when our finances are better.

I appreciate your goodwill but your post is actually the kind I wasn't too interested in seeing... it's kind of old hat- the guy (not saying this is you) who gets the visa easily is so giddy from the approval of Uncle Sam that he assumes everyone and the Embassy is angels and anyone who doesn't get it must be anti-social, angry riff-raff that didn't deserve it in the first place.

I thank you for the offer, but I don't really need any more help or advice on how to get the tourist visa- I've read up countless hours on personal experiences, etc., on thaivisa and other sites. Anyone with half a brain can figure it out- just show them as much evidence as you can and cross your fingers. I've calculated that my gf is probably in the 50% likelihood category, and that's not worth the risk in my opinion.

I usually don't think too much about this subject, but when I start thinking about buying a horrendously expensive plane ticket for my gf and I to go to South Africa (visa free for Thais) because I want her to get out of Asia and just see a little bit of a Western country for the first time in her life, I start remembering about why she can't just pay the $900 and come see me in California.

Edited August 28, 2008 by RY12

[britmaveric]

She can't see you because she probably doesnt meet the standards. Sorry, but at the end of the day life isnt fair, however you make the best of it. Hopefully she will qualify if not you keep trying until she does. Travel isn't a right its a privilege.

Edited August 28, 2008 by britmaveric

[PeaceBlondie]

What is the OP suggesting? That thousands of ThaiVisa members petition our US Senators to write letters to the Secretary of State to force the ambassadors to be more lenient in enforcing the extremely stringent laws passed by Congress? Or to convince those Senators and the members in the lower House to change the law? Does he have a specific complaint against a specific US Embassy officer in Thailand, for malfeasance of duty?Or does he think the law is not just?

I wrote my Senators not to vote for war. They voted for it.

[yaketyak]

Unfortunately we live in a media -led world where a few select subjects , immigration being one of the foremost, is used to fuel a largely ignorant public's hysteria. Which sells newspapers.

You have no chance of any petitioning having any effect. Nothing will change. Being tough on immigration wins votes.

Everything you say about it destroying lives and relationships is true , but that doesn't win votes so its allowed. It is unimportant to those who make the decisions.

You could say the same of other countries, UK for example. Although in theorey the standard of proof is lower , as said above by another poster, the importance is in its interpretation by the Embassy Officials. So if they want to demand higher levels of proof than is required they have the freedom to do so because "every case is different" ... even though in reality actually every case is startlingly similar.

You may be better off petitioning for a "tick box" system where criteria are laid down and as long as you meet the criteria the visa is granted ... taking away the ability of the ECO's to refuse on a whim if they happen to dislike the applicant. And taking away their ability to interpret the rules differently amounst themselves so identical cases can be refused or approved depending on who is looking at the application. This is surely the greater injustice is it not?

And to those who say a tick box system will mean fewer visas or that some will never get a visa because they can never meet the criteria .. well these are the same people who don't get the visas now anyway!!

At least if its clear what is required then applicants won't apply until they know they qualify.

[RY12]

You may be better off petitioning for a "tick box" system where criteria are laid down and as long as you meet the criteria the visa is granted ... taking away the ability of the ECO's to refuse on a whim if they happen to dislike the applicant. And taking away their ability to interpret the rules differently amounst themselves so identical cases can be refused or approved depending on who is looking at the application. This is surely the greater injustice is it not?

And to those who say a tick box system will mean fewer visas or that some will never get a visa because they can never meet the criteria .. well these are the same people who don't get the visas now anyway!!

At least if its clear what is required then applicants won't apply until they know they qualify.

This is a very good idea - it may even reduce the amount of applicantsaltogether because they'll know they won't get it, make the busy embassy more happy. Like with my gf- she has land and house in her name, some money in the bank, and a big travel history with me to other countries, but she doesn't own a business or have a mainstream job, so I know probably half the interviewers would reject her.

Edited August 28, 2008 by RY12

[egeefay]

It's unfortunate but I have to side with American government policy.

I personally know of several Thais who have come to the US under the guise of a tourist visa or student visas and have taken work here and are now living here illegally.

And I know of several Thais who are in the process of trying to apply for visitors visas to the US in order to jump ship and remain in the US illegally. They've even hired visa "experts" to walk them through the process so they have the best chance of "fooling" immigration officials

Thailand is one of those countries where , due to the number of aliens coming to the US and disappearing into the background is a major problem.

It's unfortunate but that's the fact of life

As a result the US embassy has to go out of their way...and that inconveniences legal visitors and tourists, like your girlfriend.

My sister in law is 65 years old, has visited America several times...returning to Thailand each time...and was given a 10 year visa. So a good history helps

Edited August 28, 2008 by egeefay

[venturalaw]

It is a good idea but the system is and has been retarded for a long time and doubt a whole lot will change.

Makes the Thai visa laws almost seem within reason.

Side Note - you can complain to your own local congressman and they can take action and have notice sent to the clowns in the Bkk Embassy. I know of someone who took all the steps to push the right buttons this way and his wife was granted a visa after continually being rejected at the walk in counter.

I know of someone who walked into the US Consulate's office in Bangkok with a letter from his state senator - it did no good whatsoever - and his Thai gf was very qualified. Truth be told, it's quite arbitrary. For instance, I was able to have my Thai fiancee (now we are married) who was unemployed, pregnant, and had no assets (other than approximately 30,000 baht that I put into her bank account) or family where she was living, a tourist visa to join me in the states. It is doable - just not easy.

[Ieyuhrah]

I think and agree that the greatest frustration is the very visual hypocracy of the politians here in the States. They do nothing about the millions coming in illegally but give almighty power to an unwiped anus to deny legitamate & proven applicants; the very people playing by the rules. I learned a bitter lesson years ago that if you want to protest/expose something you must go well above the level of corruption/problem to get a result. It may be time for an overhaul. Embassy positions are appointments. All of you who have been jerked around need to combine their stories, compare to see if it is an individual or core group who are causing the problems (take names & kick a$$), then not only send it to your Congressional representative but the Secretary of State. Does anyone know someone in the media locally and/or in the States (Nightline, 60 Minutes, etc.) who would be willing to make a scene? The diplomatic corps hate bad publicity. Tick off the wrong people though and it could become worse. But from what I have read, how much worse could it get? If you can target individuals and especially get quotes from them (previous antecdote), all the better. Go to the ambassidor and point blank ask what the problems are and why are they are prejudiced against Thais. If you do not like the answer take your hidden tape recorder to a local newspaper. All I have written is from the outside looking in. Those of you living the experience will have a greater sense of the reality of the situation. And what is the garbage about employment/business? I have a daughter & sil who have worked hard so that she could be a stay-at-home mother now that the children are here/coming. What are they thinking, other than "Here is one more way to deny legal visitors."? Maybe if you go high enough with some of this you could petition for a 'tick box system' or submit that request with all your documentation. The past olympics glaringly showed the difference between the 'standard' events and the 'judged' events (where Thailand lost out on another gold medal). Just my initial reactions, more than a touch of anger, & my song satang worth.

[Ieyuhrah]

P.S. Is there some way to qualitatively compare the screening process there in BKK vs. embassys in other countries? Can you show a prejudice or higher/unreasonable standard with Thai persons? While a visa is not a right, if you can show the equivalent to a violation of their 'world civil rights of equality' (and yes, I just made that up) it may be another tool to use in the process. My two cents again......

[Jingthing]

P.S. Is there some way to qualitatively compare the screening process there in BKK vs. embassys in other countries? Can you show a prejudice or higher/unreasonable standard with Thai persons? While a visa is not a right, if you can show the equivalent to a violation of their 'world civil rights of equality' (and yes, I just made that up) it may be another tool to use in the process. My two cents again......

Pleeeze. Non US citizens who are living outside the US have ZERO American civil rights. And why should they? It is obvious and not any secret that US embassies are tougher on some nationals applicants than others based on whether there is a high rate of not returning from a particular nationality (hint: poorer countries, higher rate of non returners).

This is all part of foreign policy. Who said foreign policy is FAIR? The US isn't on a pedestal. All countries act in their own self interest, and the current powers that be think it is in the best national interest to give visa applicants from poor countries like Thailand a hard time.

Edited August 28, 2008 by Jingthing

[RY12]

P.S. Is there some way to qualitatively compare the screening process there in BKK vs. embassys in other countries? Can you show a prejudice or higher/unreasonable standard with Thai persons? While a visa is not a right, if you can show the equivalent to a violation of their 'world civil rights of equality' (and yes, I just made that up) it may be another tool to use in the process. My two cents again......

Pleeeze. Non US citizens who are living outside the US have ZERO American civil rights.

That's true, but it's the American partner's Constitutional rights, to associate and form loving relationships with whoever you please, that is being infringed upon when the consulate denies your partner's visa, assuming you're just trying smuggle a sex worker into the US or whatever's in their head.

Edited August 28, 2008 by RY12

[Jingthing]

Cry me a river.

at least if you are a heterosexual you have an in if you MARRY a foreign national.

[bangkokbilly]

I think all of you would be surprised to know the issuance rate for tourist visas in Thailand in quite high - in the range of 70 to 75 %. When added to other types of non-immigrant visa the numbers go up to 85% +/-. Consular officers are guided by US law - The Immigration and Naturalization Act. While they do have some discretion they are held accountable and their decisions can be and are reviewed. Another tool they use are various statistical studies. Over time these studies show the overwhelming majority of Thais issued tourist visas return to Thailand. The point being is, from their standpoint, they are making good decisions. Is the system fair ? Not for me to say but anytime humans interact there will be mistakes and hurt feelings. In my experience the Consular folks do a very good job. They don't get their marching orders from the Ambassador or go out of their way to treat anyone like sh%t.

[IMA_FARANG]

Is there anything we can do? An appeal that US Embassy officers better inform their discretion on US Tourist Visa applications:

There are a lot of Americans on thaivisa that have had our lives and relationships seriously effected by the unreasonably harsh visa standards at the US Embassy in Thailand. While I understand the need of US immigration to stop the influx of illegal workers into the USA, I don't think officers at the Embassy are really furthering that by refusing a majority of the tourist visas for Thai girlfriends that have already and sincerely shown vast amount of paperwork and proofs-of-return. These women (or men), prospective spouses of US citizens, have sufficiently met the federal immigration statute's burden of proof and individual officers should reflect that better in the discretionary aspect of their decision-making process.

I can't imagine the number of Thai girlfriends who have actually abandoned their partners once they arrived in the USA is very high at all, but what is extremely high and undoubtedly definite is the disastrous effect visa-denial has on US citizens' personal relationships and life in general. The arbitrary decisions by embassy officers has serious implications for US Citizen's rights to visit intimate partners:

"No person shall... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law,..." 5th Amendment.

"And there are other spheres of our lives and existence, outside the home, where the State should not be a dominant presence. Freedom extends beyond spatial bounds. Liberty presumes an autonomy of self that includes freedom of thought, belief, expression, and certain intimate conduct [personal relationships]..." U.S. Supreme Court- Lawrence v Texas (2003)

What I purpose is that we appeal that the 'proof of return' standard generally be met for embassy officers by Thai citizens that can claim, or show evidence of, being in a real, personal, non-business relationship with a US Citizen. The US Citizen should also have a right to contribute to her application. Proof of property ownership, work-records, bank assets, photographs, or passport stamps proving a real relationship lasting longer than say 6 months should all be sufficient by their own to satisfy this proof for the officer. Don't tell me the officers are helplessly bound to US laws and can't change, they have broad discretion in the interview to decide who'd return to Thailand or not. I'm just appealing that they let their arbitrary discretion be informed by the above suggestions rather than their own biases. I'm not advocating for a big overhaul of the application process in one embassy in one little country, I know that would be futile; I'm merely requesting that the officers in Thailand, freely and of their own accord, consider public opinion and conform to countless other US Embassies across the globe that are more lenient and thoughtful in their desision-making process.

The fiance and marriage visas are NOT sufficient substitutes. A free man should not be forced to marry a woman just to visit her, he has a right to grow and mature a relationship just like any other citizen without marriage being a pre-requisite to having her visit his home.

It's probably futile, but should we Thaivisa members form a petition to give to our Senators? Would it make a difference? Should we give it to the Embassy instead? How many signatures could we get- 40 or 50?

(For all you rich or lucky farangs that got the US tourist visa the first attempt, and want to give some cliche redneck defense to the Immigration Department, f-ck off this thread.)

I know this is going to be hard for you to accept...but in fact the reason that so many companions....male or female...are rejected by what seems the strict standards of the embessy is not because of the U.S. requirements but due to the specific request of the Thai government that the U.S. have strict standards for Thai nationals (who are usually women) who enter the U.S.

You have to remember that every Thai citizen who goes to the U.S. if they can not find the money to return to Thailand then it is the Thai government that is responsible for returning that Thai citizen back to Thailand.

Do you know how many women want go to the U.S. with their boyfriend every year, only to find that for personal/financial/or cultural reasons (i.e. they can't take the constant diet of "Farang" food) they want to return to Thailand. This often results in arguements between the couple, and usually the companion (again mostly women) are not supported by their other half with the cash for the air fare back to Thailand. Things look very different when the one you thought you loved tries to tell you that he/she just can't live with you in your country. It happens many times. Just imagine what a Thai girl, used to living in a warm climate, thinks about her first winter in Boston Massachusetts or St. Paul Minnesota.

I know of what I speak. The food, the culture, the weather, etc. can tear up an otherwise loving marriage. I've seen it happen.

And I'll say again...it is in fact the Thai government that insists on a strict standard, for the good of their own nationals.

[lifeisrandom]

my gf got 10 year tourist visa to usa easily

[Nowhereman60]

You don't state why she was denied. My girl friend (at that time) now wife had no problem getting a tourist visa. Because she met all the requirements. She's been employed in Thailand for over 20 years in the same job, own property in Thailand, has a history of savings and a letter of invitation and support from me. These are some of the important things needed to get a tourist visa for a friend to visit. The embassy doesn't make the rules they just enforce them.

[atwr]

I'm pretty sure no one but a moderator can dictate who responds to a thread. US Citizen's rights don't extend to our foreign gf/wives. The US constitution doesn't say anything about citizens being treated like terrorists at the airport either.

I was floored by how we were treated in our visa interview (interrogation.) I was a little taken back by what I heard in the interview in the adjacent window as well. They aren't exactly friendly at Thai immigration, but they've never been openly rude. Then again, it's a Gov't job and I've never been treated with respect or received much satisfaction at the DMV back in the States either.

I know of several girls in the States from different Asian countries who came on different types of temp visas in the past few years, most had no intent on staying, but they stayed. In the end somebody who vouched for them got screwed, and it goes against the chances of future visitors in their position getting a visa. I imagine from the embassy's view, it's their job to look at EVERY applicant as a want-to-be immigrant. I'll give you the advise I received from a law enforcement official. Go to Mexico and run across the border like everyone else.

[JimmyTheMook]

It is a good idea but the system is and has been retarded for a long time and doubt a whole lot will change.

Makes the Thai visa laws almost seem within reason.

Side Note - you can complain to your own local congressman and they can take action and have notice sent to the clowns in the Bkk Embassy. I know of someone who took all the steps to push the right buttons this way and his wife was granted a visa after continually being rejected at the walk in counter.

I know of someone who walked into the US Consulate's office in Bangkok with a letter from his state senator - it did no good whatsoever - and his Thai gf was very qualified. Truth be told, it's quite arbitrary. For instance, I was able to have my Thai fiancee (now we are married) who was unemployed, pregnant, and had no assets (other than approximately 30,000 baht that I put into her bank account) or family where she was living, a tourist visa to join me in the states. It is doable - just not easy.

The person I mention had complained to his congressman back home and was given a set appt. at the Bkk embassy where his wife was granted a tourist visa.

Your story sounds like BS

[SoCal]

My girlfriend has never applied for the tourist visa.

This thread is hillarious.

The op has never applied for a visa, but wants to stage a protest about the unfair practices of the BKK embassy in granting visas, as he sits in the US.

At least apply for a visa, and get rejected before you moan about the unfairnes of the system.

[PeaceBlondie]

I believe that for decades, the literal immigration law, written by Congress, assumes that the tourist will try to overstay their visa. Congress mandates that the applicant must present clear evidence or proof that they will return to their home country. If that is true, then that law binds the officers to demand clear proof.

[Gary A]

It is my opinion that the American Embassy is pretty well run and efficient. It's the Visa section that needs a shake up. The people running that section should be replaced with more efficient minded people who know how to organize and actually manage.

I have told my story here before and received all sorts of criticism, so I'll leave it at this.

[Wrong Turn]

I believe that for decades, the literal immigration law, written by Congress, assumes that the tourist will try to overstay their visa. Congress mandates that the applicant must present clear evidence or proof that they will return to their home country. If that is true, then that law binds the officers to demand clear proof.

Yes, but even when proof is provided a Thai can be denied a tourist visa.

My friend (before he married her) wanted to take his TGF to the US for 3 weeks. She had a solid small business, she owned property, and had a 14 year old son. My American buddy also proved that he had money in his bank (for the financial help/support or whatever).

She was still denied a tourist visa to the US.

Later, they married, and after the legal marriage documentation it was easy. They both live in the US, now with the son.