คนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน

[DavidHouston]

Friends,

I am having difficulty with the syntax of the following sentences from Matichon Weekend:

นายสมัคร ก็ใช้ความเงียบสยบความเคลื่อนไหว ด้วยเชื่อว่า "รับมืออยู่"ภายใต้ความเชื่อมั่นว่าด้วยภาพแห่งการเป็นคนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน และได้ขอพึ่งพระบารมีเพื่อสร้างความสมานฉันท์ขึ้น น่าจะไปทำให้ฝ่ายต่างๆ สงบเสงี่ยมลงได้

Here is my attempt at a translation:

Mr. Samak is using this period of quiet to overcome the murmurings of discontent (within his party) by believing that he is adequately able to cope with (these troubles). He is under the impression that (he can use the) image of being a "blue blood" and rely on the imprimatur (of his office) to build unanimity and to quell the disagreements among the various factions.

I am also troubled by the following phrases: "คนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน" and "ขอพึ่งพระบารมี". Does "คนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน" mean the same as "a blue-blood" does in English? Also, what is the English equivalent of "ขอพึ่งพระบารมี"?

(Of course this article was written before the most recent troubles.)

Can anyone provide some assistance with both the vocabulary and syntax? Thanks.

Edited August 28, 2008 by DavidHouston

[yoot]

Does "คนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน" mean the same as "a blue-blood" does in English?

Yes, it does.

what is the English equivalent of "ขอพึ่งพระบารมี"?

Hmmm. I'm not sure how to explain the meaning of this phrase in English. It's like using the transcendent power of the King or with the transcendent power of the King.

[aanon]

Friends,

I am having difficulty with the syntax of the following sentences from Matichon Weekend:

นายสมัคร ก็ใช้ความเงียบสยบความเคลื่อนไหว ด้วยเชื่อว่า "รับมืออยู่"ภายใต้ความเชื่อมั่นว่าด้วยภาพแห่งการเป็นคนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน และได้ขอพึ่งพระบารมีเพื่อสร้างความสมานฉันท์ขึ้น น่าจะไปทำให้ฝ่ายต่างๆ สงบเสงี่ยมลงได้

Here is my attempt at a translation:

Mr. Samak is using this period of quiet to overcome the murmurings of discontent (within his party) by believing that he is adequately able to cope with (these troubles). He is under the impression that (he can use the) image of being a "blue blood" and rely on the imprimatur (of his office) to build unanimity and to quell the disagreements among the various factions.

I am also troubled by the following phrases: "คนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน" and "ขอพึ่งพระบารมี". Does "คนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน" mean the same as "a blue-blood" does in English? Also, what is the English equivalent of "ขอพึ่งพระบารมี"?

(Of course this article was written before the most recent troubles.)

Can anyone provide some assistance with both the vocabulary and syntax? Thanks.

Hi David, here is my interpretation of the passage. I believe you will be able to see how I have understood the structure of the sentences. If not, feel free to ask.

นายสมัคร ก็ใช้ความเงียบสยบความเคลื่อนไหว ด้วยเชื่อว่า "รับมืออยู่"

Samak is using silence to defeat the movement [against him], believing that he can handle [the problems].

ภายใต้ความเชื่อมั่นว่า ด้วยภาพแห่งการเป็นคนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน

He feels an assurance that, via his image as a royalist

และได้ขอพึ่งพระบารมีเพื่อสร้างความสมานฉันท์ขึ้น

and through invoking the moral authority of His Majesty to bring about harmony,

น่าจะไปทำให้ฝ่ายต่างๆ สงบเสงี่ยมลงได้

he ought to be able to pacify the various parties.

all the best.

ps. I believe that คนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน does generally mean 'blue-blood', in the sense of having noble/royal lineage. Looking at the passage as a whole, however, it seems that in this case the idea is being extended to having a strong allegiance to the monarchy. Perhaps someone who follows Thai politics more closely can comment further on this.

[meadish_sweetball]

Could perhaps 'noble' or 'nobleman' fit in?

I.e. he relies on the moral authority of the King and stays silent, rather than bluntly and brutally taking action, and thus displaying 'noble' qualities (he believes)?

[AjarnP]

ขอพึ่งพระบารมีเพื่อสร้างความสมานฉันท์ขึ้น

David and Meadish,

What I'm getting from this phrase is something like:

Call upon the auspices (albeit metaphorically) of HM....

Perhaps this may fit into your sentence a little more smoothly.

Ajarn P

[yoot]

When Thai people say "ขอพึ่งพระบารมี", it doesn't mean literally.

In this context, it means something like 'with the loyalty of people to the king, it would bring about the harmony to our people'.

Anyway, I think aanon's translation is pretty good. Good job.

[aanon]

When Thai people say "ขอพึ่งพระบารมี", it doesn't mean literally.

In this context, it means something like 'with the loyalty of people to the king, it would bring about the harmony to our people'.

Anyway, I think aanon's translation is pretty good. Good job.

thanks yoot, i was hoping that you would help out here.

could i trouble you to comment a little further on the reasoning/logic of the sentence?

does ภาพแห่งการเป็นคนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน refer to samak's image? is it an image of being loyal to the crown, being a nobleman himself or something else?

many thanks.

Edited September 1, 2008 by aanon

[yoot]

When Thai people say "ขอพึ่งพระบารมี", it doesn't mean literally.

In this context, it means something like 'with the loyalty of people to the king, it would bring about the harmony to our people'.

Anyway, I think aanon's translation is pretty good. Good job.

thanks yoot, i was hoping that you would help out here.

could i trouble you to comment a little further on the reasoning/logic of the sentence?

does ภาพแห่งการเป็นคนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน refer to samak's image? is it an image of being loyal to the crown, being a nobleman himself or something else?

many thanks.

Aanon,

Khun Samak was born in a noble family. So, ภาพแห่งการเป็นคนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน refer to his image and can be applied to be a royalist in this context from his image too.

[aanon]

When Thai people say "ขอพึ่งพระบารมี", it doesn't mean literally.

In this context, it means something like 'with the loyalty of people to the king, it would bring about the harmony to our people'.

Anyway, I think aanon's translation is pretty good. Good job.

thanks yoot, i was hoping that you would help out here.

could i trouble you to comment a little further on the reasoning/logic of the sentence?

does ภาพแห่งการเป็นคนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน refer to samak's image? is it an image of being loyal to the crown, being a nobleman himself or something else?

many thanks.

Aanon,

Khun Samak was born in a noble family. So, ภาพแห่งการเป็นคนเลือดสีน้ำเงิน refer to his image and can be applied to be a royalist in this context from his image too.

i see. i didn't know that about him. thank you for explanation, yoot.

[DavidHouston]

I want to thank all of you for your assistance in helping me understand this passage. We as learners are indeed fortunate to have your expertise. One more passage, if you please, for your elucidation:

From Matichon Weekend this week:

เอ็นจีโอ นักวิพากษ์สังคมและคนที่ทำงานมวลชนจะถูกตราหน้าหรือทำรายงานไว้ในระบบราชการ ว่า เป็นพวกหัวหมอ ชอบตีความ มองโลกในแง่ร้าย มีอคติกับภาครัฐ ข้อมูลประวัติส่วนตัวของพวกเขาจะถูกทางการบันทึกไว้อย่างละเอียด

NGOs, critics and commentators, and members of the news media are denounced or are reported to the authorities as being too smart for their own good and tend to see the world and interpret everything in a negative light and they tend to be biased against the government. Their personal information and histories are noted in detail by the authorities.

1. "เป็นพวกหัวหมอ". The phrase in this context seems less than complimentary. However, I am not sure I understand the meaning. Domnern Sathienpong as the word "หัวหมอ" as "a wise guy, to be smart; foxy, crafty", but these terms are not sufficiently pejorative, if my understanding is correct. I use the phrase "too smart for their own good", but this is likely incorrect. Any thoughts?

2. "มีอคติกับภาครัฐ". I cannot tell whether the phrase "มีอคติกับ" means to be "biased in favor of" or "biased against". Both meanings in English are of course possible. Which is meant here and which prepositions or adverbs in Thai are used to indicate prejudice or bias "for"

or "against" a particular position?

Thank you again for your assistance.

Edited September 2, 2008 by DavidHouston

[mangkorn]

"hua maw" is generally used to mean smart/crafty in a devious, underhanded, often corrupt way. (sorry, no Thai script)

It is pejorative - referring to someone whom you should be very wary of.

[aanon]

I want to thank all of you for your assistance in helping me understand this passage. We as learners are indeed fortunate to have your expertise. One more passage, if you please, for your elucidation:

From Matichon Weekend this week:

เอ็นจีโอ นักวิพากษ์สังคมและคนที่ทำงานมวลชนจะถูกตราหน้าหรือทำรายงานไว้ในระบบราชการ ว่า เป็นพวกหัวหมอ ชอบตีความ มองโลกในแง่ร้าย มีอคติกับภาครัฐ ข้อมูลประวัติส่วนตัวของพวกเขาจะถูกทางการบันทึกไว้อย่างละเอียด

NGOs, critics and commentators, and members of the news media are denounced or are reported to the authorities as being too smart for their own good and tend to see the world and interpret everything in a negative light and they tend to be biased against the government. Their personal information and histories are noted in detail by the authorities.

1. "เป็นพวกหัวหมอ". The phrase in this context seems less than complimentary. However, I am not sure I understand the meaning. Domnern Sathienpong as the word "หัวหมอ" as "a wise guy, to be smart; foxy, crafty", but these terms are not sufficiently pejorative, if my understanding is correct. I use the phrase "too smart for their own good", but this is likely incorrect. Any thoughts?

2. "มีอคติกับภาครัฐ". I cannot tell whether the phrase "มีอคติกับ" means to be "biased in favor of" or "biased against". Both meanings in English are of course possible. Which is meant here and which prepositions or adverbs in Thai are used to indicate prejudice or bias "for"

or "against" a particular position?

Thank you again for your assistance.

agree with mangkorn. on q. 2, it means 'biased against' or 'having a negative view of'. in this sort of context, i think มักเข้าข้าง is one likely way to express 'biased towards'.

i believe อคติ is a negative construction (อะ+คติ) (negative + view)

all the best.

[Rikker]

Right. อคติ is inherently negative. So, 'prejudiced against' or 'biased against'. For the neutral term for bias, see ลำเอียง. You can be ลำเอียง in either direction, as I understand it.

[yoot]

The meaning of 'หัวหมอ' from Dr. Wit Thiengburanathum Dictionary:

หัวหมอ, หัวหมอความ

(น.) ผู้ที่ชอบนำข้อบัญญัติกฎหมายมาใช้หรือมาอ้าง เพื่อประโยชน์ของตน. adj. having the mind of a lawyer, legal-minded.

In this context "เป็นพวกหัวหมอ ชอบตีความ" means they are people who often interpret any words, any laws for their own good or to the way that support their own ideas.

[DavidHouston]

The meaning of 'หัวหมอ' from Dr. Wit Thiengburanathum Dictionary:

หัวหมอ, หัวหมอความ

(น.) ผู้ที่ชอบนำข้อบัญญัติกฎหมายมาใช้หรือมาอ้าง เพื่อประโยชน์ของตน. adj. having the mind of a lawyer, legal-minded.

In this context "เป็นพวกหัวหมอ ชอบตีความ" means they are people who often interpret any words, any laws for their own good or to the way that support their own ideas.

Thank you, Khun Yoot. Based on your help, I am trying to think of English equivalents. How about, " หัวหมอ, หัวหมอความ – an eagle-eyed lawyer; a legal eagle; those able to turn the law on its head; a brilliant barrister; a lawyer with a sharp eye and a sharp tongue; twisting the words of the law; looking for all possible loop-holes; slicing the baloney thin; a snake charmer with the jury."

In the case of using the Thai metaphor with journalists, as with the current question, we might say, "keen-questioner; tough interrogator; ankle-bitter; persistent paparazzi; muck-raker; tough investigative reporter", etc.

Anyone else have some good English language equivalents?

[mangkorn]

"Ankle-biter"?

Too funny. (but I thought that generally meant a little kid?)

Anyway, I still think "hua maw" in usage means someone who is very cunning, devious - and that shouldn't really apply to hard-nosed journalism (even though that can require some measure of guile). It's usually a pejorative term, and thus for journalism would seem to apply better to "sensationalism" or "yellow journalism," rather than to good, tough professional reporting.

I've mostly heard "hua maw" used to refer to devious businessmen or politicians, specifically people like Banharn, Newin, Thaksin, et.al.

If, for example, you wish to tell someone that they are very sharp/clever, and say "hua maw," they will likely be very offended. In that sense, the phrase "hua laaem" (sharp, keen, pointed) is more appropriate.

Cheers.

Edited September 4, 2008 by mangkorn