Why Do Many Of Us Tip More Than The Orientals In Orientalland?

[Jingthing]

Many of of us European descent visit or move to Orientalland and are faced with a small dilemma over the issue of TIPPING (which for your info is NOT a city in Orientlalland!).

You see in many of our home countries, such as the USA, UK, France, etc. we are used to paying big tips to restaurant service people, if not directly, as part of a built in service charge. An exception might be the European descent people from Australia which does not have a strong tipping culture.

So here we are, here in Orientalland, and it appears the native Orientals do not tip the Oriental waiters in the same ways we European descent people do.

How do we react? Well, I think most of us react by tipping at a higher level than the local Orientals do.

Why do we do this? I have some ideas, but maybe you do also:

-- ingrained tipping habits developed over a lifetime are hard to kick

-- we want to look like the big shot

-- the Oriental waiters have grown used to overtipping by European descent people, so we don't want to disappoint them

-- we think the Orientals waiters are poor pitiful people and we feel we are richer than them and want to help them out of the kindness of our hearts

-- we think the Orientals waiters are poor pitiful people and we feel we are richer than them and want to help them out of white guilt, a latter day white man's burden

-- we don't want the Orientals to call us Cheapskate Charlies and tell all their Oriental friends around talking, ruining our reputations as friends of the Orientals

-- we are actually poorer than the Oriental waiters, and certainly poorer than the Oriental customers, but we just can't help ourselves

-- we value being called jai dee by the Orientals

-- we don't understand the money and thought 1000 baht equals 25 USA cents

Anyway, I am really curious because I do this also. I do tip more than the local standard for Orientals tipping Orientals, but I have adjusted somewhat and do not tip at the same rate I did in the USA (15 to 20 percent of all checks no matter the quality of service)

Penny for your thoughs. Orientals are welcome to post as well, if you are able. We European descent people understand your Oriental ways and that you are eating spicy peppers night and day and are often squatting on the Oriental toilets, so of course too busy and sticky to post.

Edited August 29, 2008 by Jingthing

[pumpuiman]

Rugs are Oriental.

People are Asian.

[lazeeboy]

ive had jobs where ive relied on tips ,so i tip well ,when the service is good

[Deke]

I think I've adopted the Thai approach to tipping.

If there is a service charge on the bill; no tip.

If the owner of the restaurant presents the bill; no tip.

Otherwise, it depends on the level of service. In any case not more than 5 - 10 percent of the bill. Normally, never more than 100 Baht.

When it comes to the guys in the toilet who want to massage my back though, I pay them just to leave me alone.

[Jingthing]

Rugs are Oriental.

People are Asian.

I am confused? Why do the Orientals call us farangs? Shouldn't we conform to their Oriental ways (we can never understand the Oriental mind, it has been said) and be polite, and call THEM as they call US? I think we should!

FARANG/ORIENTAL/SAME SAME/GET WITH THE PROGRAM!!!

Edited August 29, 2008 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

ive had jobs where ive relied on tips ,so i tip well ,when the service is good

Yes, but aren't you carrying over your European descent cultural values and violently messing up the lovely Oriental culture in Orientalland with your alien cultural assumptions?

[pumpuiman]

I did a little research...

To describe a person as Oriental is considered to be impolite and politically incorrect by some in the United States; the term Asian is now widely used. In the United States Oriental refers to objects and material goods such as rugs and teapots. However, the term Oriental does not carry any such connotations in the United Kingdom, where the word Asian commonly refers to people of Indian/Bangladeshi/Pakistani/Sri Lankan descent. (These people are called South Asians in the United States.)

I didn't realize it was an "American" thing...my apologies if your from the UK.

Edited August 29, 2008 by pumpuiman

[elkangorito]

My replies in blue.

Many of of us European descent visit or move to Orientalland and are faced with a small dilemma over the issue of TIPPING (which for your info is NOT a city in Orientlalland!).

You see in many of our home countries, such as the USA, UK, France, etc. we are used to paying big tips to restaurant service people, if not directly, as part of a built in service charge. An exception might be the European descent people from Australia which does not have a strong tipping culture.

So here we are, here in Orientalland, and it appears the native Orientals do not tip the Oriental waiters in the same ways we European descent people do.

How do we react? Well, I think most of us react by tipping at a higher level than the local Orientals do.

Why do we do this? I have some ideas, but maybe you do also:

-- ingrained tipping habits developed over a lifetime are hard to kick. Adjusting can take time, if one is willing to adjust.

-- we want to look like the big shot. Not me.

-- the Oriental waiters have grown used to overtipping by European descent people, so we don't want to disappoint them. I don't subscribe to "guilt trips".

-- we think the Orientals waiters are poor pitiful people and we feel we are richer than them and want to help them out of the kindness of our hearts. See above.

-- we think the Orientals waiters are poor pitiful people and we feel we are richer than them and want to help them out of white guilt, a latter day white man's burden. See above.

-- we don't want the Orientals to call us Cheapskate Charlies and tell all their Oriental friends around talking, ruining our reputations as friends of the Orientals. I couldn't give a flying fart what anybody thinks about me.

-- we are actually poorer than the Oriental waiters, and certainly poorer than the Oriental customers, but we just can't help ourselves. This is just stupid (IMHO 80% of the world is stupid).

-- we value being called jai dee by the Orientals. "Guilt trip" stuff again.

-- we don't understand the money and thought 1000 baht equals 25 USA cents. A clear failure to investigate the economy of the visited country, prior to visiting it.

Anyway, I am really curious because I do this also. I do tip more than the local standard for Orientals tipping Orientals, but I have adjusted somewhat and do not tip at the same rate I did in the USA (15 to 20 percent of all checks no matter the quality of service)

Penny for your thoughs. Orientals are welcome to post as well, if you are able.

I only tip when I feel it is deserved. Even then, I only tip what I feel is deserved...usually no more than 40 Bart.

[Jingthing]

I did a little research...

To describe a person as Oriental is considered to be impolite and politically incorrect by some in the United States; the term Asian is now widely used. In the United States Oriental refers to objects and material good such as rugs and teapots. However, the term Oriental does not carry any such connotations in the United Kingdom, where the word Asian commonly refers to people of Indian/Bangladeshi/Pakistani/Sri Lankan descent. (These people are called South Asians in the United States.)

I didn't realize it was an "American" thing...my apologies if your from the UK.

Yes it is impolite to call a Thai Oriental.

It is also impolite to call an American a farang.

So here we are again, in ORIENTALLAND, and the Orientals here are mostly calling ALL OF US farangs, so I think we should be POLITE and CONFORM, and call them back EXACTLY as they are calling us. Please join the ORIENTAL bandwagon; it is the only fair way and respectful of the unique ways of our special ORIENTAL hosts.

Please, lets not get hung up on the fine points of Oriental culture, how about the TIPPING?

Edited August 29, 2008 by Jingthing

[Heng]

Get splashed again at the bus stop, Jingthing?

[Jingthing]

Get splashed again at the bus stop, Jingthing?

Nothing of the kind, Sir! Just another happy day among the smiling Orientals in Orientalland!

[Heng]

Might want to switch to bottled water, J. I think you may have picked up an amoeba or something.

[Jingthing]

Might want to switch to bottled water, J. I think you may have picked up an amoeba or something.

Does drinking bottled water cure amoebas?

[cophen]

Have you had training in Professional Victimhood or are you just a gifted amateur?

[Jingthing]

Have you had training in Professional Victimhood or are you just a gifted amateur?

i guess if I have to TELL you it is satire, then either

(1) it is lousy satire

(2) you are an idiot

I am serious about the tipping questions. I can't seem to shake my American conditioning to always have to tip the Orientals, even in places where it is not the custom to do so.

Edited August 29, 2008 by Jingthing

[cophen]

No, it's not satire, it's just another whiney Jing thread. Can't you find some more rewarding way of filling your time?

As far as the tipping thing goes - it's probably something you'll have to live with. It's an ingrained US habit - much more so than in the UK.

[Jingthing]

No, it's not satire, it's just another whiney Jing thread. Can't you find some more rewarding way of filling your time?

As far as the tipping thing goes - it's probably something you'll have to live with. It's an ingrained US habit - much more so than in the UK.

On another thread many people asserted that the Orientals do indeed get satire. Maybe better than some of the non-Orientals?

[cophen]

An American lecturing an Englishman on satire. Whatever next!

[Jingthing]

An American lecturing an Englishman on satire. Whatever next!

I do admire your Jonathan Swift gentleman, but I would bet money on our Mark Twain in a frog race.

[Mossfinn]

An American lecturing an Englishman on satire. Whatever next!

Irony perhaps?

[desi]

Except for clouding the post with references to Orientals, I (mostly) found it an interesting query until I reached this...

Orientals are welcome to post as well, if you are able. We European descent people understand your Oriental ways and that you are eating spicy peppers night and day and are often squatting on the Oriental toilets, so of course too busy and sticky to post.

Totally tacky...

And like others, I'm also wondering if you've either been up all night hanging one on, or just woke up slurping the hair of a dog or two?

(Satire? Shirley you jest...)

[kmart]

Have you had training in Professional Victimhood or are you just a gifted amateur?

Most of the OP's threads seem to have a "glass-half-empty" kind of feel to them.

I'm guessing he isn't a motivational speaker in his day job. Or just off his meds.

[intumult]

Before, I tipped a lot. Then I was told off by some of the staff for doing so. Thai staff!! Now I tip 40 Baht for an evenings service unless the service is atrocious.

Tipping big was not for my own self esteem, because I felt sorry for the staff, or to show what a big shot I am - I'm not LOL -. I tipped big because it seemed a small amount to me. Obviously as I got to know the way of things here and was also told off I reduced my tips accordingly.

This is the art of learning, something we spend all our lives doing

[desi]

Tipping big was not for my own self esteem, because I felt sorry for the staff, or to show what a big shot I am - I'm not LOL -. I tipped big because it seemed a small amount to me. Obviously as I got to know the way of things here and was also told off I reduced my tips accordingly.

This is the art of learning, something we spend all our lives doing

I took a Canadian friend to a restaurant I frequent often (The Professors by Victory Monument). After the bill was paid, she threw in an 80 baht tip. Her reason? Ten percent of the bill (it had nothing to do with the mediocre service). And this from someone who's been here almost 5 years.

Then several weeks ago I took an Australian guest out for dinner. As he was on expenses, he grabbed the check. Before leaving, he placed several hundred baht on the table. Us local expats gasped, then explained the lay of the land, all in front of the waiting service staff. Poor things, but ott in Thailand is ott. And as this chap will be relocating here next year, he might as well learn now (then make up his own mind).

The reason I don't tip a lot in Thailand? In my younger years I relocated to a quiet mountain area for work. The government was putting in a pump storage unit so needed a large work force, and there I was. Overnight, the rentals flashed sky-high. Before the job was over (two plus years) the locals couldn't afford to rent or buy in their own county. It's my belief that it will creep up in Thailand too. Or India, or Indonesia, or wherever there are expats willing to pay outrageously more for services, or accommodation, whatever. Yes, I am aware of a two-tiered system out here with parks and such, but I won't voluntarily shove it up on my own.

Edited August 30, 2008 by desi

[TexasRanger]

My American friends were shocked when I didn't give a tip in a bar, we went in ordered at the bar, drank at the bar etc. why the hel_l should I tip a girl who just opened a beer bottle? They get paid wages right? Anyway back to the orientals, I tip about 30 Bt in a normal eatery but when we go to our local Italian and drink win etc. the bill come to around 3000 so I would be embarrassed if I didn't leave 100 Bt. I would give 10% but the wife would kill me.

[OlRedEyes]

I leave the tipping to my oriental wife. Culture be damned, couldn't care less - a favour returned. She's as tight as my virgin ass, so it makes economic sense.

I'll put a smiley here for the intellectually disadvantaged.

[way2muchcoffee]

My American friends were shocked when I didn't give a tip in a bar, we went in ordered at the bar, drank at the bar etc. why the hel_l should I tip a girl who just opened a beer bottle? They get paid wages right? Anyway back to the orientals, I tip about 30 Bt in a normal eatery but when we go to our local Italian and drink win etc. the bill come to around 3000 so I would be embarrassed if I didn't leave 100 Bt. I would give 10% but the wife would kill me.

Inconsistent. Why would you even bother to tip a server? All they did was bring a plate of grub. Don't they get a salary, even if it is only $4.00 per day?

Edited August 30, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[GaiYaang]

Yes, that's why they love farang long time.

.

[TexasRanger]

My American friends were shocked when I didn't give a tip in a bar, we went in ordered at the bar, drank at the bar etc. why the hel_l should I tip a girl who just opened a beer bottle? They get paid wages right? Anyway back to the orientals, I tip about 30 Bt in a normal eatery but when we go to our local Italian and drink win etc. the bill come to around 3000 so I would be embarrassed if I didn't leave 100 Bt. I would give 10% but the wife would kill me.

Inconsistent. Why would you even bother to tip a server? All they did was bring a plate of grub. Don't they get a salary, even if it is only $4.00 per day?

Seating me, taking my order, going to get the food, bringing it to me, constantly topping up my glass and getting me the bill warrants a tip more than someone opening a bottle of beer.

Also I never tip if service is bad. A tip is a sign of appreciation not a right as some people in the US seem to think. A cheeky bitch in Vegas came to complain to some frinds of mine because they didn't leave a tip every time they got a drink!! Unbelievable !

Edited August 30, 2008 by TexasRanger

[way2muchcoffee]

A tip is a sign of appreciation not a right as some people in the US seem to think. A cheeky bitch in Vegas came to complain to some frinds of mine because they didn't leave a tip every time they got a drink!! Unbelievable !

It is a Thai forum so this is largely irrelevant, however, service staff in many states of the USA pay income tax on 10% of the total bill of the customers. The government assumes a tip and charges income tax, which very nearly makes a tip a 'right' in my book, at least in the USA.

Regarding your argument for tipping a server. Do you also tip the shoe or clothing salesperson who brings the various sizes for you to try on? Do you tip the bus driver for driving you across town? I could come up with others, but I'm sure you see the point. Tipping is about cultural expectations. When in Rome....

Edited August 30, 2008 by way2muchcoffee