State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[endure]

How can a nation break apart with its people so alike? Why is our nation so fragile with us so "flexible"?

What's so alike between an Isaan farmer and an S class driving Bangkokian?

[Lozza]

George, Ozsamurai you are doing a brilliant job.

It is a pleasure to read your posts.

Are you saying you've read all posts of both Gentlemen since you became a member on 2008-06-21 ?

WOW...

What a D.......d you are...I have read most if not all of the Gentleman's posts for 3 years now/ as a serving Goverment Officer I was unable to join or voice my opinion on this Forum. I am now a resident of this Country..WOW... what about you?? are you still doing border runs???

Stay out of your HOST Country Politics ..get a real job, better still a life- 'Mr Postman' you must be extremely bored with nothing to do but Post Post your Inane opinions,

Actually you have put more posts here than my REAL Postman ever dropped in my Letter Box.

LaoPo

[endure]

Can we stop the personal insults please. If you can't be civil, be quiet.

[Jai Dee]

Thai premier’s declaration brings little difference to most of Bangkok

BANGKOK: “This is not Georgia,” a 30-something taxi driver told me two hours after Thailand’s Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej declared a state of emergency in the Thai capital at about 7.30am yesterday.

“Just look outside, it's sabai sabai (Thai for relax),” he said, pointing at the business-as-usual scene 1km from Government House, which was seized by the anti-Samak People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) last Friday.

“It is not andtaraai (dangerous) in Thailand. There are 65 million people in Thailand and there are only 100,000 Thais protesting.”

But in politically-tense Thailand, a non-violent situation can swiftly turn andtaraai. At around 1.30am yesterday, a 55-year-old Thai was killed during clashes between pro-government and PAD protesters, forcing Samak to give the army control of public order.

Around 10am, arriving near the prime minister’s office at Government House, I had expected to see the military cordoning off the premises.

It was nothing like that. Unlike the Sept 19, 2006, coup, no tanks rumbled into the Thai capital yesterday.

However, despite sweeping emergency powers banning all public gatherings in Bangkok, the PAD continued to occupy Samak’s official compound, which it had barricaded with razor wire and car tyres. At the main gate, PAD guards frisked those entering ground zero of Thailand’s political tension.

Inside, hundreds of yellow-clad protesters sat on the plastic-covered muddy front lawn listening to the PAD speakers on the makeshift stage. Each time a PAD speaker made a stinging remark against Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in the 2006 coup, or Samak, the crowd went into a frenzy.

Around lunchtime, a quick visit to the Siam Paragon shopping mall showed no signs of emergency rule.

Through the day, I received SMSes and e-mail from Malaysians asking if it was safe to travel to Bangkok. I told them Bangkok was safe as long as they avoided going near Government House.

Until 5.30pm Bangkok time, the PAD was still shouting themselves hoarse at Samak’s office compound while the military was silent.

Army chief Gen Anupong Paochinda, who is also the commander in charge of the state of emergency, vowed yesterday to rely on negotiations and peaceful means to restore normalcy.

Source: The Star - 03 September 2008

[jongkolkhoo]

What's logical about the DAAD , the PTV zombies and their rack record?

Again, I'm not making this up.

"he who controls the media controls the country." those who watch only astv will be inclined to PAD while those who believed in NBT will support the goverment or prefer the PAD to stand down. this is now a media game. the more you watch astv, chances that you get influenced will be there. Same goes to NBT. If you watch both side, you might consider both are biting each other and is link to some form of mob. the news hosted on UK sites (online news) praising Sonthi belongs to sonthi ( good one) and the uk online news hitting very hard on thaksin or toxin (whatever you call him) is linked to thailand's PAD.

I know and have seen Taksin pulling Thailand out of bankruptcy during the economy crisis. And we all have seen what damage these protest have done to Thailand. Taksin might be a bad guy but is there a better way to resolve the internal issues rather that pulling Thailand into economy crisis? Don't forget that putting Thailand into the limelight for the wrong reason is not right.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Jai Dee
Multiplee nested quotes deleted for better legibility

[RouxTheDay]

In America every man, woman, minority, land owner or not has the right to vote and the majority will rule. With this kind of democracy we have a very stable government that people will invest in and have become the worlds #1 economy.

Although the United States relies upon certain democratic processes and principles, it most certainly is not a democracy. It is a constitutional republic, and was explicitly designed as such by the "founding fathers" in an effort to specifically protect its citizens from the dangers of democracy (i.e., tyranny of the majority, mob rule, etc.).

I've only been following the current political issues in LOS for about a year, so I'm no expert. That said, I'm certainly no supporter of the current "regime", but it's fairly clear the PAD is not the answer, and is not truly interested in a democracy. At least not in the sense that most people mean when using that word. However, those dangers of democracy our unruly Americans feared do seem to be something of a concern in this case... What's that saying about out of the skillet, into the fire?

[Mosha]

I suppose who is perceived as being at fault, depends on where the Thais witnessing the events of Monday night live in Thailand. My NST wife said the Samak supporters turned up to create trouble and hurt people. I suppose someone from the Issan provinces will hold the opposite view. We are supposed to be going to Nong Khai in a couple of months. My wife is scared to go now because she thinks people there will make trouble for people from the south.

[Jai Dee]

Mocking democracy

Thai premier Samak Sundaravej, under assault from an alliance of civil-society dissidents styling itself the "People's Alliance for Democracy", is not alone in being bemused by the irony of it. "I love democracy much more than anyone calling me to resign," he told his Parliament, a day before declaring an emergency in Bangkok to quell violent clashes that had begun to escalate into fatalities. Indeed, the grouping headed by maverick media maven Sondhi Limthongkul might more truly call itself the "People's Alliance for the Repeal of Democracy".

Its stated objective, other than ousting Samak from office, is to backtrack on the country's past decade of democratic reforms, which they now see as having bred vote-buying and corruption. Far better now, they contend, for Thailand to revert to the more authoritarian ways of yore, when 70 per cent or more of the seats in the legislature were filled by appointment.

Samak, of course, is bound to love democracy: he owes his premiership to Thailand's modern version of it, as flamboyantly essayed by his mentor Thaksin Shinawatra in million-baht handouts to rural villages during the ascent of his Thai Rak Thai party a decade ago.

Thaksin and TRT were elected to government in 2001, in a general election hailed worldwide as free, fair and popular. In the subsequent years of scandal and calamity, with Thaksin hounded from office on charges of everything from corruption to money-laundering and pillage of national assets, outside observers in particular may have forgotten how very popular Thaksin and, by extension, Samak, remain among those early beneficiaries of their largesse.

The bloody clashes between pro-government mobs and the anti-government protesters who had laid siege to official premises this past week should be graphic evidence that the "People's Alliance" does not ally anything like all the people of Thailand. Yet, their quixotic attempt to turn back the clock on democracy, having also decried the country's traditional alternative of successive military regimes through consecutive coups, has resulted in the martial option of emergency being activated in Bangkok.

Considering how the protesters' sympathisers disrupted airports, railways, public transport and the tourist trade elsewhere in the country, that measure need not have been limited to the nation's capital.

So far, thankfully, it has been. Perhaps these altercations might now be damped down and normalcy return to daily life, while the politics of it all is addressed in the more appropriate forums of Thailand's media, Parliament and party-political discourse.

Source: New Straits Times - 03 September 2008

[hammered]

What's logical about the DAAD , the PTV zombies and their rack record?

Again, I'm not making this up.

"he who controls the media controls the country." those who watch only astv will be inclined to PAD while those who believed in NBT will support the goverment or prefer the PAD to stand down. this is now a media game. the more you watch astv, chances that you get influenced will be there. Same goes to NBT. If you watch both side, you might consider both are biting each other and is link to some form of mob. the news hosted on UK sites (online news) praising Sonthi belongs to sonthi ( good one) and the uk online news hitting very hard on thaksin or toxin (whatever you call him) is linked to thailand's PAD.

I know and have seen Taksin pulling Thailand out of bankruptcy during the economy crisis. And we all have seen what damage these protest have done to Thailand. Taksin might be a bad guy but is there a better way to resolve the internal issues rather that pulling Thailand into economy crisis? Don't forget that putting Thailand into the limelight for the wrong reason is not right.

I severely doubt that the UK media is linked to or controlled by any side in this dispute. It is likely they will criticise the PAD for being undemocratic and Thaksin for being a serial human rights abuser as these are the kind of issues that would stand out. I also guess like all football chairmen in the UK Thaksin gets handled fairly harshly by tabloid journalists. This however has no link to Sonthi's shadowy arm and is just normal.

[Jai Dee]

First night of emergency state passes with no violent incident for PAD

The People's Alliance for Democracy continued its demonstration in the Government House throughout the night without any violent incident.

But rumours spread throughout the night that either pro-government protesters or security officials would raid the Government House to evict PAD demonstrators.

When the morning came, the tension apparently eased and many protesters left the rally site while many others had breakfast provided by the PAD.

Source: The Nation - 03 September 2008

[Thai at Heart]

I don't think PAD is interested in forming a political party, although, this could change, as membership grows and goals get reevaluated.

The point is that the PAD formed a political party* already....in MAY 2006 !

any update on that 28-Month Old article?

Oh did you miss their convention? It has been on all the channels. Really inspiring messages of hope, unity, and I particularly the guy in yellow, I forget his name now, but you know what, he might really shake things up here.

[operator]

Comment into days Daily Telegraph.

Prime minister's lawn becomes a battleground for old-school Thais

By Thomas Bell

Last Updated: 12:01am BST 03/09/2008

Have your say Read comments

Worldstage: Bangkok

Sitting in deck chairs, eating snacks and clapping along to live music, Thailand's new revolutionaries look like nothing so much as picnickers at a free concert. Judging by the crowd, it is easy-listening for all ages.

It's packed at the front of the stage, on the prime minister's muddy lawn, but there are huge video screens for everyone else.

advertisementEnough hot food and iced water for thousands of people has been supplied - free of charge - 24 hours a day for the past eight days and counting.

This is an epic love-in to end democracy. The problem for the middle-class protesters camped out at Government House in Bangkok - and for their leaders, and their leaders' backers, who are throwing this enormous free party - is that the poor who dominate the electorate keep choosing the wrong government.

Perhaps if the well-heeled protesters succeed in overthrowing the seven-month-old administration of Samak Sundaravej this will be called the Yellow Revolution, because they wear the colour of Thailand's revered monarch to show their devotion to him. Or perhaps the Golf Revolution, because the thugs who patrol the protests are armed with golf clubs.

The battle lines are familiar from other emerging democracies. The turmoil earlier this year in Turkey was comparable. Wealthy city folk, and the conservative military, bureaucratic and legal establishments have trouble accepting the people's choice.

"They tend to be richer and regard themselves as more enlightened and western-leaning than the other side," says an observer of the Turkish scene. "But many see no paradox in their reluctance to accept the legitimacy of a general election result."

At root, Thai political analysts say, the metropolitan elite is threatened by the electorally popular Thaksin Shinawatra, who was overthrown as prime minister in a coup in 2006.

His protégé, Samak Sundaravej, was elected by a clear margin as soon as the people were given another chance to vote at the end of last year.

"This is the problem area," explained a businessman at the demonstration yesterday, indicating northern Thailand on a map he had drawn in my notebook. The region is populous, agricultural and relatively under-developed.

They vote consistently for Mr Thaksin and his allies, probably because of the cheap health care and improved living standards his policies delivered. "They have a low education, they are farmers, they don't understand. You give them £10 and they will vote for you," the businessman claimed. "They are dogs. We kick them."

The answer offered by the protesters - who call themselves the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) - is "the new politics".

Under the new politics only 30 per cent of parliament would be elected. The rest would be appointed by the army and bureaucracy, controlled by the traditional social elite.

For Thailand's emerging democracy it is a disaster. "Normally Thai democracy is usurped by the army," according to Dr Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a Thai political scientist. "This time it is being threatened by a civilian movement which is even more Right-wing."

It is also a blow to the region. Of the 10 members of Asean - the club of South East Asian Nations - only five, including Thailand, claim to be democracies.

Anyone gambling on Thailand's immediate future would be wise to guess that the government will shortly fall.

With its powerful allies in the army and the royal palace, the PAD looks untouchable. Even the local media, although it felt obliged to condemn the illegal occupation of Government House, has a soft-spot for the PAD.

First the beleaguered prime minister turned to the courts. An order was duly issued, ordering them to end their occupation of the prime minister's front lawn, then inexplicably revoked.

"The occupation of Government House... calls into question not only the viability of democracy in Thailand, but also the political neutrality of the court system," the credit ratings agency Moody's noted.

Next, prime minister Samak called on the police to control the protests. They failed. Finally, yesterday, he declared a state of emergency and called in the army. The army chief, while promising not to stage a coup, says he will not evict the protesters occupying the seat of government.

The prime minister, it appears, has been deserted by the powers that be. But if he has nowhere left to turn, neither does Thailand.

Not for as long as its people are denied the governments they choose.

[sriracha john]

First night of emergency state passes with no violent incident for PAD

The People's Alliance for Democracy continued its demonstration in the Government House throughout the night without any violent incident.

But rumours spread throughout the night that either pro-government protesters or security officials would raid the Government House to evict PAD demonstrators.

When the morning came, the tension apparently eased and many protesters left the rally site while many others had breakfast provided by the PAD.

Source: The Nation - 03 September 2008

It's positive note that there was no repeat of this....

[Jai Dee]

FTI: Private sector wants emergency decree lifted

The private sector calls on all sides to end to civil strife through negotiations soon, so the state of emergency in Bangkok would be lifted.

Federation of Thai Industries (FTI) chairman Santi Vilassakdanont said the invocation of the emergency decree has both negative and positive consequences. In the negative outlook, investors would lose confidence to do businesses in the country. On the positive side, people may view that the decree would allow relevant units to control the situation that could bring about violence.

More from the Bangkok Post here.

[Crushdepth]

Of course. I thought Samak did a pretty good job. But don't quote me on it.

I just had to do it :-)

He was surely not perfect but then again I don't really take a close look at Thai politics unless there is political unrest or a coup going on. But if it wasn't for the PAD people making problems, Thailand would have been pretty stable and improving.

And nobody can tell me that the PAD core leaders are doing this for free. Mass demonstrations like these cost a lot of money to the organizers. If they don't get the money returned when they've taken over the government, why would they do it? And how will they get it back? With bribes, of course.

This is not a fight for democracy or voting rights, this is a fight for who gets to keep the money that passes under the table when you're prime minister of Thailand. The people demonstrating on the streets will not get an inch more of democracy no matter which party has the power.

How much money is Thaksin is passing back to PPP? Is it a coincidence that he sold his football team the day before the EC recommended dissolution of PPP for electoral fraud? Or is he raising cash to help TRT version 3 fight an upcoming election campaign that will be triggered when the court boots them out of office?

[Jai Dee]

Unions confirm power strikes will go ahead today

Widespread disruption of public services is expected today as state enterprise labour unions have confirmed they will down tools to press for the resignation of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej. Most have promised strikes and the disruption power and water supplies to government offices, despite the declaration of a state of emergency. Sawit Kaewwan, secretary-general of the State Enterprise Labour Relations Confederation, said Monday's resolution will not be revoked.

He said more than 300 representatives of 43 state enterprise labour unions had joined the People's Alliance for Democracy's protest rally. If the prime minister refuses to resign, the unions will bring operations to a complete halt.

More from the Bangkok Post here.

[Thai at Heart]

This morning in the Post

PAD peace feeler?

By Post Reporters

People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) core member Sondhi Limthongkul on Tuesday showed the first signs of a compromise to end the political stand-off following a fatal clash between protesters and the declaration of a state of emergency.

The possibility of a solution came after army chief Gen Anupong Paojinda, who heads the committee to enforcing the emergency decree, refused to take tough measures to disperse PAD demonstrators from Government House. He also called for conciliation.

In an exclusive interview with the Bangkok Post Mr Sondhi said he was contemplating a four-point compromise as the political situation appeared at a dead end.

But he stressed that the proposal would be viable only after Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej stepped down from office -- the core objective of the PAD's rally.

Mr Sondhi said the government must promise not to amend the charter in its favour; to observe the Constitution Court's order regarding Preah Vihear temple; to suspend all mega-projects; and to commit to political reforms and increased public participation in politics.

Mr Sondhi said the four-point demand was strictly his own proposal, not the PAD's. He had yet to put the matter to other core members.

"They must accept the four-point demand _ and only if the prime minister is either Somchai Wongsawat or Surapong Suebwonglee," said Mr Sondhi.

He predicted the emergency decree would backfire on Mr Samak, as although the army chief has been given control over Bangkok he is unwilling to wield the power.

He expected Mr Samak would resign in the next few days.

At Government House, the PAD rally continued in defiance of the state of emergency, prompted by the clash early Tuesday which left one dead and 43 others injured.

The dead man was identified as UDD member Narongsak Krobthaisong, 55, the Narenthorn Emergency Response Centre said.

Gen Anupong told a press conference after a meeting between senior military and police officers that officials would not exercise the powers granted by the emergency decree to end the PAD demonstration.

"Negotiations will be used in ending the problem, not simply the force of law," he said.

His committee's objective was only to keep the pro-and anti-government sides apart. The political stand-off could still be solved through negotiations.

"If the people are united, the army is one with the people. When the people are divided, there is no place for the army. The army has to find an acceptable way out for the divided camps, and without any losses."

He said unarmed military and police personnel would maintain law and order.

"Only legal and democratic means should be used to solve the stand-off. Legislative branch or parliament should be responsible to end this problem," he said.

Mr Samak defended his declaration of a state of emergency, saying he carefully consulted all parties concerned for two hours before announcing his decision.

The decree would not be enforced for a long period,he said, but gave no indication when it would be lifted.

Mr Samak said he considered the decree to be the best and most gentle measure to restore law and order, even though it could cause some trouble for people.

"I do this to douse the fire. When it is done, everything will return to normal. People went about their business as usual until [the Tuesday morning] incident. I had to use the instruments at my disposal. It will only be enforced for a short while," Mr Samak said.

The declaration of the state of emergency has triggered new calls for Mr Samak to resign.

Academics, media outlets and civil groups issued statements, calling on the premier to quit.

However, a group of Thammasat University lecturers broke ranks and demanded a House dissoluhtion instead.

PAD member Somkiat Pongpaiboon, speaking from the group's main stage, told thousands of demonstrators the alliance would only enter into negotiations after Mr Samak resigned.

The alliance would not negotiate with Gen Anupong or any other individual or group appointed by the government.

PAD lawyers Nitipon Lamlua and Suwat Apaipak on Tuesday lodged a petition with the Supreme Administrative Court against the state of emergency order and seeking its temporary suspension until a ruling is given.

They also urged the Supreme Administrative Court to refer the petition to the Constitution Court for a ruling if the matter is outside its jurisdiction.

The move is echoed by a group of senators led by Somchai Sawaengkarn. Mr Somchai said the decree was not justified. Police did too little to prevent the violence between anti-and pro-government demonstrators.

"Since the decree is not justified, the decree therefore tramples on civil liberties and is unconstitutional," he said.

They disagreed with the the argument an executive decree does not lie within the jurisdiction of the Administrative Court. The senators believe the government is exercising administrative power through the imposition of the state of emergency.

So now the deals appear to be on the table, and thank heavens the idea of removing the entire government by mob rule is possibly/hopefully off the table.

"Mr Sondhi said the government must promise not to amend the charter in its favour; to observe the Constitution Court's order regarding Preah Vihear temple; to suspend all mega-projects; and to commit to political reforms and increased public participation in politics."

"They must accept the four-point demand _ and only if the prime minister is either Somchai Wongsawat or Surapong Suebwonglee," said Mr Sondhi.

Hmmm, Phreah Vihear rears it's ugly head again. Where is Noppadope anyway? Could take a while (like 60 odd years) to "commit to political reforms" and I would love to know exactly what he means the increased public participation in politics. We have just had his version of that for 8 days of that and it has brought the country to a standstill

[kurtgruen]

First night of emergency state passes with no violent incident for PAD

The People's Alliance for Democracy continued its demonstration in the Government House throughout the night without any violent incident.

But rumours spread throughout the night that either pro-government protesters or security officials would raid the Government House to evict PAD demonstrators.

When the morning came, the tension apparently eased and many protesters left the rally site while many others had breakfast provided by the PAD.

Source: The Nation - 03 September 2008

It's positive note that there was no repeat of this....

I agree!

Think People...the above are pictures of DAAD, the PPP sponsored (and paid for) group that violently attacked the peaceful PAD protest at Government House. How can anyone still claim that the PPP are the good guys????

[jongkolkhoo]

What's logical about the DAAD , the PTV zombies and their rack record?

Again, I'm not making this up.

"he who controls the media controls the country." those who watch only astv will be inclined to PAD while those who believed in NBT will support the goverment or prefer the PAD to stand down. this is now a media game. the more you watch astv, chances that you get influenced will be there. Same goes to NBT. If you watch both side, you might consider both are biting each other and is link to some form of mob. the news hosted on UK sites (online news) praising Sonthi belongs to sonthi ( good one) and the uk online news hitting very hard on thaksin or toxin (whatever you call him) is linked to thailand's PAD.

I know and have seen Taksin pulling Thailand out of bankruptcy during the economy crisis. And we all have seen what damage these protest have done to Thailand. Taksin might be a bad guy but is there a better way to resolve the internal issues rather that pulling Thailand into economy crisis? Don't forget that putting Thailand into the limelight for the wrong reason is not right.

news hosted on online sites does not belong to

I severely doubt that the UK media is linked to or controlled by any side in this dispute. It is likely they will criticise the PAD for being undemocratic and Thaksin for being a serial human rights abuser as these are the kind of issues that would stand out. I also guess like all football chairmen in the UK Thaksin gets handled fairly harshly by tabloid journalists. This however has no link to Sonthi's shadowy arm and is just normal.

UK sites (online news) hosted on online sites does not belong to UK media/medias. you can also rent a domain and write whatever you want to write.(provided it is within the country's internet law). if you track back this forum, you will see links to an online news which states that it is owned by a company/corporation held/owned by sonthi. basically he is interviewing himself and putting it in writing what he wants people to read. (UK media has got nothing to do with these online news being hosted in UK.)

[kurtgruen]

Unions confirm power strikes will go ahead today

Widespread disruption of public services is expected today as state enterprise labour unions have confirmed they will down tools to press for the resignation of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej. Most have promised strikes and the disruption power and water supplies to government offices, despite the declaration of a state of emergency. Sawit Kaewwan, secretary-general of the State Enterprise Labour Relations Confederation, said Monday's resolution will not be revoked.

He said more than 300 representatives of 43 state enterprise labour unions had joined the People's Alliance for Democracy's protest rally. If the prime minister refuses to resign, the unions will bring operations to a complete halt.

More from the Bangkok Post here.

The next step, if this doesn't work, will be a General strike, which will bring Samak and the PPP to their knees for sure. I don't see the Samak government surviving past the end of the week.

[Jai Dee]

Power chiefs plead: 'No union cut'

The Energy Ministry urged employees of the three state power utilities yesterday to abandon their threat to cut off services today, saying they should be concerned about the public. Union members at the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand (Egat) and the Provincial and Municipal electricity authorities (PEA and MEA) had threatened to cut off supplies to state agencies and Government House in sympathy with anti-government protesters.

Pornchai Rujiprapa, the ministry's permanent secretary, called for urgent discussions between ministry officials and Egat executives and unionists in an attempt to convince the unions to drop their plan.

More from the Bangkok Post here.

[younghusband]

JoeInSurin

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Is that guy still throwing questions at me?

I apologize. I forgot you chose to ignore legitimate questions that you have no answer for. Good way to get your point across by ignoring people.

Don't worry, Joe. I'm still waiting for for the eel's opinion on General P's sudden appearance in the ranks of the PAD leadership! Good at posting silly pictures, not good at answering salient points!

Quit it with the name calling, unnecessary flaming.

Who were you before you got banned and chose a new nickmname?

I replied to you earlier and you are still twisting this cr@p your way saying I had not answered you about Panlop when it was the first time you did!.

If you can't keep track of your bullsh!t questions, which by the way you only brought in only to divert from two totally unrelated questions I asked SOMEONE ELSE in the first place, then get lost!

My honest reply TO YOU earlier:

"There are two questions I asked above that remain unanswered.

<deleted> does Panlop have to do with what I am asking???

It's the first time you ask me directly about Panlop, I'm not going to get drawn into this right now, I admit that I don't know enough about the man yet (who has time to cover all the side players involved), although I can tell you a rough estimate how many thousands died under Thaksin."

AND the related post at the time in which you spat out your TOTALLY UNRELATED Panlop question whose only purpose was to throw a wrench in the works to save someone from answering to lies he posted, nothing else.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2179694

If anyone clicks on the link above, they will clearly see what your true intention is here.

I haven't been following this internal catfight and I couldn't care less about the content or either of the protagonists.

However the simple truth remains that the association of a discredited and reactionary thug like Panlop with the PAD movement merely underscores the repulsiveness of that movement's leadership.

[kurtgruen]

I am happy and grateful, that last night went by without violent confrontations. Let's hope it stays that way...

We have to remember, that all these people have families, who depend on them...the Protesters, the Police, the Military...they are all People. Some of them with family members on both sides of the conflict.

While corrupt politician or individuals cling to power, or fight for power (whatever your perspective may be), innocent people get hurt.

Now I realize that some of this is necessary to bring about change, but I sure hope and pray that it continues without violence from now on.

[ubonjoe]

[quote name=

Internet dropout in middle of posting

more to follow

Edited September 3, 2008 by ubonjoe

[kurtgruen]

My other hope is, that maybe through all this, public awareness will increase of what is going on in this country....

Poor people not having enough to eat or get medical care, so they borrow money at 20% interest per month. (This is widespread everywhere and keeps the poor in slavery). A lot of them have employers who lend them money at 20% per month and for the rest of their lives, they will be working as slaves, just to pay the interest. This has gone on for a long time, longer than I have been in Thailand (I've only been living here for about 6 years)

Young women only being able to get jobs, if they are pretty

The disabled being refused jobs, because many Thai businessmen don't want them to be seen working for them

Family violence

Mafia control and extortion of beggars and prostitutes

Even though, the PAD may not be adressing these problems directly, Sondhi has shown that the people have power. One day they will wake up and realize that they can use that power for all kinds of positive social change in this Nation.

Awakening the People was a good thing. We may not all agree on the motives, but showing the people how much power they really have, is a positive, in my thinking.

[ubonjoe]

Comment into days Daily Telegraph.

Prime minister's lawn becomes a battleground for old-school Thais

By Thomas Bell

Last Updated: 12:01am BST 03/09/2008

Have your say Read comments

Worldstage: Bangkok

Sitting in deck chairs, eating snacks and clapping along to live music, Thailand's new revolutionaries look like nothing so much as picnickers at a free concert. Judging by the crowd, it is easy-listening for all ages.

It's packed at the front of the stage, on the prime minister's muddy lawn, but there are huge video screens for everyone else.

advertisementEnough hot food and iced water for thousands of people has been supplied - free of charge - 24 hours a day for the past eight days and counting.

This is an epic love-in to end democracy. The problem for the middle-class protesters camped out at Government House in Bangkok - and for their leaders, and their leaders' backers, who are throwing this enormous free party - is that the poor who dominate the electorate keep choosing the wrong government.

Perhaps if the well-heeled protesters succeed in overthrowing the seven-month-old administration of Samak Sundaravej this will be called the Yellow Revolution, because they wear the colour of Thailand's revered monarch to show their devotion to him. Or perhaps the Golf Revolution, because the thugs who patrol the protests are armed with golf clubs.

The battle lines are familiar from other emerging democracies. The turmoil earlier this year in Turkey was comparable. Wealthy city folk, and the conservative military, bureaucratic and legal establishments have trouble accepting the people's choice.

"They tend to be richer and regard themselves as more enlightened and western-leaning than the other side," says an observer of the Turkish scene. "But many see no paradox in their reluctance to accept the legitimacy of a general election result."

At root, Thai political analysts say, the metropolitan elite is threatened by the electorally popular Thaksin Shinawatra, who was overthrown as prime minister in a coup in 2006.

His protégé, Samak Sundaravej, was elected by a clear margin as soon as the people were given another chance to vote at the end of last year.

"This is the problem area," explained a businessman at the demonstration yesterday, indicating northern Thailand on a map he had drawn in my notebook. The region is populous, agricultural and relatively under-developed.

They vote consistently for Mr Thaksin and his allies, probably because of the cheap health care and improved living standards his policies delivered. "They have a low education, they are farmers, they don't understand. You give them £10 and they will vote for you," the businessman claimed. "They are dogs. We kick them."

The answer offered by the protesters - who call themselves the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) - is "the new politics".

Under the new politics only 30 per cent of parliament would be elected. The rest would be appointed by the army and bureaucracy, controlled by the traditional social elite.

For Thailand's emerging democracy it is a disaster. "Normally Thai democracy is usurped by the army," according to Dr Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a Thai political scientist. "This time it is being threatened by a civilian movement which is even more Right-wing."

It is also a blow to the region. Of the 10 members of Asean - the club of South East Asian Nations - only five, including Thailand, claim to be democracies.

Anyone gambling on Thailand's immediate future would be wise to guess that the government will shortly fall.

With its powerful allies in the army and the royal palace, the PAD looks untouchable. Even the local media, although it felt obliged to condemn the illegal occupation of Government House, has a soft-spot for the PAD.

First the beleaguered prime minister turned to the courts. An order was duly issued, ordering them to end their occupation of the prime minister's front lawn, then inexplicably revoked.

"The occupation of Government House... calls into question not only the viability of democracy in Thailand, but also the political neutrality of the court system," the credit ratings agency Moody's noted.

Next, prime minister Samak called on the police to control the protests. They failed. Finally, yesterday, he declared a state of emergency and called in the army. The army chief, while promising not to stage a coup, says he will not evict the protesters occupying the seat of government.

The prime minister, it appears, has been deserted by the powers that be. But if he has nowhere left to turn, neither does Thailand.

Not for as long as its people are denied the governments they choose.

Very good post

The text in bold says it all.

[Moruya]

It seems we do need some changes to the Constitution.

As with owners of Premier League football clubs, there should be a vetting of MPs and a stricter vetting of Cabinet members. As a minimum they should be free from any criminal convictions and any pending criminal prosecutions. For Cabinet members, they should have the right experience and qualifications to do their jobs competently.

The sooner this is done, the better.

[brahmburgers]

PAD's #1 demand is for Samak to step down. What does PAD expect to happen right after that - does PAD have an alternative poo yai (big boss) ready to step in to take the reins?

Personally, I support PAD's right to engage in peaceful civil disobedience. I loathe Samak and his honchos, but (maybe I missed something) I haven't seen a viable alternative. Thailand appears to have a dearth of leadership material.

PPP or it's next incarnation will have a long line of inept self-enriching bumblers waiting in the wings - If Samak steps down.

I'm sure Thaksin, Samak and their buddies are having heated discussions about who they'll appoint to step in as interim PM position - as we speak.

With another Thaksin clone at the top of the heap, what will PAD have accomplished?

[toybits]

Perhaps, if more people knew about the background of Sonthi, Chamlong, Col. Sanders etc., then they will understand what is going on behind the rhetoric. People will also understand why such bitterness exists between the PAD and Taksin faction.

Does anyone have any links to information of this sort?

[younghusband]

First night of emergency state passes with no violent incident for PAD

The People's Alliance for Democracy continued its demonstration in the Government House throughout the night without any violent incident.

But rumours spread throughout the night that either pro-government protesters or security officials would raid the Government House to evict PAD demonstrators.

When the morning came, the tension apparently eased and many protesters left the rally site while many others had breakfast provided by the PAD.

Source: The Nation - 03 September 2008

It's positive note that there was no repeat of this....

In the Bangkok Post today there were a number of similar photographs including some of those shown above.The key difference was that the Bangkok Post showed thugs and victims from both sides.The poster has simply omitted images which don't fit in with his preconceptions.