State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[sjaak327]

I'm well aware of Sondhi's past. But that doesn't illegitimize anything he's been saying about TRT and PPP. You have to look at the facts themselves. Look at what Thanksin/TRT/PPP have done. Even if this gov't is thrown out, it doesn't mean that Sondhi will become the next PM or the most powerful man in Thailand. We all just want a change in our system and wanna see fair and transparent elections to ensure the better future of the country. The same old crap in Thai democracy where corruption is accepted and ignored has gotta end. We are NOT supporting PAD because of Sondhi. We are supporting their cause because this corrupt gov't is just too much to bear. We want a change. Nothing to do with Sondhi.

Fair enough, I do agree that TRT/PPP is far from ideal in any case. But in order to achieve what you want, you would need a reliable organisation or party to get the job done, the PAD isn't that organisation.

And I'm still not convinced that the 70/30 "proposal" is just that, they might actually try to implement that in any way they can. That must not be allowed to happen.

[ThNiner]

By the way, I wonder if there are other Thais besides me in this thread...

[trigger571]

This is really bad for the tourism , over here in Scandinavia its headline news on all the tv stations .

And even if its no danger to travel , this kind of news will make people here think twice about going to Thailand.

Especially families with kids , high season starts in 3 months so if this goes on I'm sure Thailand will suffer a lot....

Lets hope it will get back to normal soon.

It already has had a bad effect. I sell travel and already had 7 cancellations. 5 of which just happened today. Whats interesting is that 2 individuals also cancelled Cambodia because they are worried that if the PAD somehow manage to get into power, they might declare war on Cambodia

LOL ROFL

What is so funny? I sell fair trade travel, and my clients go to local people who desperatly need the tourists. 7 people cancelling (from my tiny agency alone!) is a massive blow to the local community where I send clients. As I just said, these 7 are just from my business. I am a tiny agency compared to the tens of thousands of agencies world-wide. If they have a fraction of cancellations, the true figure might be thousands of holidays to thailand (tens of millions of dollars to the economy) cancelled or postponed. 5% of thailands economy depends on tourism. Is that funny or are you one of those Farangs who completely desrespects the thai people and their culture and couldnt give a hoot of their suffering?

[Tony Clifton]

I haven't read though the entire thread, but didn't the people of Thailand elect the PPP as their government with a majority and more than any other party? If so, why is a minority protesting? Let's face the truth here for a second, the majority of Thais have voted for the PPP. Why is their choice not being respected? And occupying government buildings and TV stations and threatening to cut off electricity and water supplies is hardly democracy, but anarchy.

Your puzzle is missing quite a few pieces, picking up where you left off two months ago.

PPP came to power WITH A COALITION of more slimy and corrupt parties who chose greed and the eventual possibility of what we saw last night.

Shame on them.

[kurtgruen]

This is really bad for the tourism , over here in Scandinavia its headline news on all the tv stations .

And even if its no danger to travel , this kind of news will make people here think twice about going to Thailand.

Especially families with kids , high season starts in 3 months so if this goes on I'm sure Thailand will suffer a lot....

Lets hope it will get back to normal soon.

It already has had a bad effect. I sell travel and already had 7 cancellations. 5 of which just happened today. Whats interesting is that 2 individuals also cancelled Cambodia because they are worried that if the PAD somehow manage to get into power, they might declare war on Cambodia

LOL ROFL

Not too funny if you are a low class Thai relying on tourist income to feed the family.

I was refering to the comment about Cambodia.

Speaking about tourist income...a light just came on....so many foreigners keep posting their ANTI-PAD rants here, which mostly are full of inaccuracy (with a few exceptions). Is their motive maybe, because they are loosing money? Bar owners, massage parlar owners, resort and guesthouse owners, travel businesses??? I couldn't figure out, why some of these posters almost seem to be foaming from the mouth, but it's starting to make sense now. Maybe it's because the protests are hurting their thick wallets? Maybe they are afraid that there servants and slave workforce might see the light and organize one day, demanding fair wages and benefits????

Just a thought ;-)

[ando]

I agree--I watched the General on lunchtime TV and when a foreign lady journalist asked him why the military wasn't doing the bidding of the lawfully elected Govt.--well, his answer was somewhat telling--like Ando says--right or wrong the army of any country should be following the insructions of the govt.--TIT.

No, this is a constitutional monarchy and the army ultimately answers to HM as head of state, not the government. HM has made his views on use of violent measures very clear. Samak might want the army to go in with guns, gas and sticks but his instructions are subordinate.

Possibly part of the problem. However, it has never stopped the army using deadly force to seize power in the past, -- when it suited their political needs.

Just this time it doesn't suit the army (or their masters) to get tough on PAD.

[Tony Clifton]

Didn't international observers as well as countries like the USA declare the elections to be "free and fair"?

How "free and fair" was rule under the military junta?

More so than under Samak?

Don't think so...

Yes, 37 of them to observe the elections in a country of 60 million. 3700 could have done maybe, but 37?

You are joking right?

[sjaak327]

I was refering to the comment about Cambodia.

Yeah I bet you do, another nice one that was a little bit PAD related don't you think. Of course to go further into that would be OT.

[haybilly]

Well, I think the LOL could easily be reflected back to you. I mean IF you really believe that people like Sondhi want what you just described above, then you must be a bit naive to say the least.

He doesn't really want a fair and transparent election, and he certainly doesn't want to end corruption, he would be one of the first to pay the price, if they achieved just that.

You do know why he became anti Thaksin don't you ? Not because of his apparent corruption, but because a deal they made togehter turned sour.

Some freedomfighter.

I'm well aware of Sondhi's past. But that doesn't illegitimize anything he's been saying about TRT and PPP. You have to look at the facts themselves. Look at what Thanksin/TRT/PPP have done. Even if this gov't is thrown out, it doesn't mean that Sondhi will become the next PM or the most powerful man in Thailand. We all just want a change in our system and wanna see fair and transparent elections to ensure the better future of the country. The same old crap in Thai democracy where corruption is accepted and ignored has gotta end. We are NOT supporting PAD because of Sondhi. We are supporting their cause because this corrupt gov't is just too much to bear. We want a change. Nothing to do with Sondhi.

I hear you ThNiner but, due to PR stunts like 30 Baht welfare for all and grants to small villages throughout the Kingdom and so on, the average poor, hand-to-mouth farmer upcountry loves TRT and it's nemesis Samak, these are the voters in this 'sort of' democracy--bribed albeit--it's only the intelligentia and upper classes who can see through this scam--beware the poor, illiterate farmers will not stand for your reforms--they are/were happy [ in a sort of way] with the status quo.

Unlike you I am not Thai and have no right to comment--just airing my opinion--Kor Tod.

[ubonjoe]

I found this from Asia Times, one of Manager Groups Websites.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ID27Ae01.html

And if anyone can prove it is a spoof, I please ask the mods to remove it.

Recollections, revelations of a protest leader

By Shawn W Crispin

An interview given by Sondhi.

I don't want to copy it all because there are many references to a very respected man.

I read it and have seen parts of it elsewhere.

A good post but ignored by others.

[trigger571]

This is really bad for the tourism , over here in Scandinavia its headline news on all the tv stations .

And even if its no danger to travel , this kind of news will make people here think twice about going to Thailand.

Especially families with kids , high season starts in 3 months so if this goes on I'm sure Thailand will suffer a lot....

Lets hope it will get back to normal soon.

It already has had a bad effect. I sell travel and already had 7 cancellations. 5 of which just happened today. Whats interesting is that 2 individuals also cancelled Cambodia because they are worried that if the PAD somehow manage to get into power, they might declare war on Cambodia

LOL ROFL

Not too funny if you are a low class Thai relying on tourist income to feed the family.

I was refering to the comment about Cambodia.

Speaking about tourist income...a light just came on....so many foreigners keep posting their ANTI-PAD rants here, which mostly are full of inaccuracy (with a few exceptions). Is their motive maybe, because they are loosing money? Bar owners, massage parlar owners, resort and guesthouse owners, travel businesses??? I couldn't figure out, why some of these posters almost seem to be foaming from the mouth, but it's starting to make sense now. Maybe it's because the protests are hurting their thick wallets? Maybe they are afraid that there servants and slave workforce might see the light and organize one day, demanding fair wages and benefits????

Just a thought ;-)

Appologies to you for my last post then. Thought you found the cancellations for Thailand funny. I wont go into the politics anywhere as I'm not informed enough about it, and reading through all the media just makes you wonder why anyone would side with either of the sides anyway. Once again, I apologise for my last post aimed at you

[jongkolkhoo]

Applause to you for getting involved and standing up.

Where is the rally?

I can give you a hint that I'm in the South rigth now.

most of the southern people are fierce. i was warned (AS A foreigner) not to say anything bad about the things (protest) by the PAD. hinting that if i don't want to end up in the hospital, just shut up or join them supporting PAD.

most of the PAD are good people but there are also a bunch of extremist out there.

Having an extremist among my in-laws family member sure makes me fuming.

I am also in south..

should i mention nakorn si thammarat?

That's a bit of generalization imo.

[sjaak327]

with the status quo.

Unlike you I am not Thai and have no right to comment--just airing my opinion--Kor Tod.

Please give he "illitearte farmers " a bit more credit. I really think you are also over estimating the upper classes here. Sure they are educated, since they have money to spare, but are they all smart...

[trigger571]

I was refering to the comment about Cambodia.

Yeah I bet you do, another nice one that was a little bit PAD related don't you think. Of course to go further into that would be OT.

Beleive in me I am no supporter for PAD nor the PPP. If I had my way, I would ban the whole lot from politics/pressure group as they all hold criminal/ corruption records. Problem is I have no idea who could replace them!

[ando]

This is really bad for the tourism , over here in Scandinavia its headline news on all the tv stations .

And even if its no danger to travel , this kind of news will make people here think twice about going to Thailand.

Especially families with kids , high season starts in 3 months so if this goes on I'm sure Thailand will suffer a lot....

Lets hope it will get back to normal soon.

It already has had a bad effect. I sell travel and already had 7 cancellations. 5 of which just happened today. Whats interesting is that 2 individuals also cancelled Cambodia because they are worried that if the PAD somehow manage to get into power, they might declare war on Cambodia

LOL ROFL

Not too funny if you are a low class Thai relying on tourist income to feed the family.

I was refering to the comment about Cambodia.

Speaking about tourist income...a light just came on....so many foreigners keep posting their ANTI-PAD rants here, which mostly are full of inaccuracy (with a few exceptions). Is their motive maybe, because they are loosing money? Bar owners, massage parlar owners, resort and guesthouse owners, travel businesses??? I couldn't figure out, why some of these posters almost seem to be foaming from the mouth, but it's starting to make sense now. Maybe it's because the protests are hurting their thick wallets? Maybe they are afraid that there servants and slave workforce might see the light and organize one day, demanding fair wages and benefits????

Just a thought ;-)

I am sure all the tourist orientated businesses will suffer. Not just bar owners. And I don't think any of them would be thick enough to think they could change things by posting on ThaiVisa.

[Old Man River]

So much for Democracy. I'm getting out of here while the getting is good beforethey shut down the main airport in Bangkok. I certainly don't want to be stuck here during a Revolution should it come to that.

Good idea, TerryM. I was here when General Suchinda seized power and I went to Don Muang the same evening and had to come back into Sukhumvit as most (maybe all ) flights were cancelled. Meanwhile my visa and ticket expired. Not especially convenient.

The next day there were no taxis running to the airport and while I was quietly watching strange goings on near the Nana Hotel a soldier stuck his gun in my face.

So discretion is the better part of valour.

For tourists, your advice is correct as they can wander into areas (as you did) that they shouldn't be in. However, those of us that live here know that the situation is not dangerous. I was here in 1992 and didn't have any problems. As a tourist you were here and had a gun stuck in your face (something I would never forget either). Hence, to the tourist, good advice. For those that live here, no problems whatsoever.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Old Man River

[Tony Clifton]

So what's going to prevent the opposition or any other party of conducting vote buying in the next election?

DISSOLUTION!!!! When political parties get sick of being dissolved for electoral fraud they will stop trying to buy votes.

and start just buying the politicians who have secure districts to secure election victories..... these politicians generally don't care which party they are in as long as they are receiving appropriate remuneration for their services...

Stricter punishments are in order.

Vote buying - 1 year gaol, 5,000,000 baht fine & ten year ban from politics for you and five year ban for all family members.

Changing political parties - 6 months off the old party register and 6 months registered with the new party on or before the day of the election.

Illegal fund raising activities (War on (opposition) drug dealers for example) - Court date with the court of Political position holders. One stop - no appeal.

Being fit and proper person to lead the country - No cabinet members may hold their posts if they have prior criminal convictions or have on-going "criminal" allegations and court appearances. If they want to serve in the cabinet, they have to help the courts expedite the cases for a guilty or not guilty conclusion rather than tying the courts up for years in appeals and no shows hoping the charges will go away. Three month amnesty from the date of the election. Any new charges, the cabinet minister concerned has to immediately step down.

Wishful thinking!

Exactly what is needed.

[Old Man River]

I was refering to the comment about Cambodia.

Yeah I bet you do, another nice one that was a little bit PAD related don't you think. Of course to go further into that would be OT.

Beleive in me I am no supporter for PAD nor the PPP. If I had my way, I would ban the whole lot from politics/pressure group as they all hold criminal/ corruption records. Problem is I have no idea who could replace them!

Abhisit man, Abhisit.

[kurtgruen]

This is really bad for the tourism , over here in Scandinavia its headline news on all the tv stations .

And even if its no danger to travel , this kind of news will make people here think twice about going to Thailand.

Especially families with kids , high season starts in 3 months so if this goes on I'm sure Thailand will suffer a lot....

Lets hope it will get back to normal soon.

It already has had a bad effect. I sell travel and already had 7 cancellations. 5 of which just happened today. Whats interesting is that 2 individuals also cancelled Cambodia because they are worried that if the PAD somehow manage to get into power, they might declare war on Cambodia

LOL ROFL

What is so funny? I sell fair trade travel, and my clients go to local people who desperatly need the tourists. 7 people cancelling (from my tiny agency alone!) is a massive blow to the local community where I send clients. As I just said, these 7 are just from my business. I am a tiny agency compared to the tens of thousands of agencies world-wide. If they have a fraction of cancellations, the true figure might be thousands of holidays to thailand (tens of millions of dollars to the economy) cancelled or postponed. 5% of thailands economy depends on tourism. Is that funny or are you one of those Farangs who completely desrespects the thai people and their culture and couldnt give a hoot of their suffering?

If you really think that I don't give'r hoot about Thai people's suffering, you haven't read much of what I have been posting this past week. I am a socialist and well aware of the suffering of the poor Thai People and Rural Thai People (low income, sub standard education and medical facilites and the list goes on)

What I thougt was funny, was the comment about War with Cambodia. That is really stretching for it.

I am pro PAD, because this country needs a change and it needs it now. People shouldn't just have to exist on a few PPP crumbs thrown to them, while the rich keep lining their fat pockets. We got rid of one crook (Thaksin), who was allowed to line his pockets with corruption for far too long. Now it's time to get rid of his puppets, so they can't continue to do the same.

I don't expect you to agree, but you might want to ask yourself, why most of the Unions and socialists like myself are trying to bring down the PPP government? Do I sound like an elitist to you?

Do any of you wonder, why educated students, professors and labor activists support the PAD at this point?

[tezzainoz]

Have been reading this Post with interest, but more interest in the comments from my Thai wife.

Up till now being from Issan she will not listen to anything bad about Thaskin, and always says what good things he did for her village.

But over the lat 2 days she is starting to talk about things that where hiding deep inside her cultural closet, telling me how her family have been warned if they did not vote for PPP they would be sorry, and how her fellow villagers have joined protest groups in the past for payment.

Her feeling now are changing and Thaskin is no longer such a great guy in her eyes, so are time changing and the present movement may be changing attitudes in Thailand

Now if the PPP are already in the stages of been de-registered, I would think that they where not a legally ellected government, and so only a new election can solve the matter.

Again my Thai wife feels they are running out of money and all these problems are draining their bank accounts, as I said I have no sides just an outsider looking in, but in my family old ideas are changing, and this will make a better Thailand

[sjaak327]

Beleive in me I am no supporter for PAD nor the PPP. If I had my way, I would ban the whole lot from politics/pressure group as they all hold criminal/ corruption records. Problem is I have no idea who could replace them!

I'm in the same boat, they are both corrupt organisations that cannot be trusted, and who can replace them is indeed a very good question.

I'm not sure if many people can come up with a satisifying answer on that question.

[gbswales]

I am today sad for Thailand and for the Thai people many of whom depend on the flood of toursitst who will be put off by the latest rioting.

What is going on is unconstitutional and wrong - democracy is not not a perfect form of government but it is just about the best available.

The reality is that the majority of the Thai population (outside of Bangkok) are less concerned about corruption than they are about the policies that they see as affecting them directly. We see the same in the UK in that a working class person is far less concerned about tax rates (which proportionately affect the better off much more than those on lower incomes) and is more concerned about good social care and improved standards of living.

Sometimes people will opt for a slightly corrupt government that delivers what they want as opposed to an honest one which does not - that is democracy.

With the government currently under investigation it is quite wrong for the PAD to be disrupting life in this way - the King should on this occasion use his influence - not in a political way to decide who is right - but simply to restore order and force people to follow proper courses of action

[kurtgruen]

This is really bad for the tourism , over here in Scandinavia its headline news on all the tv stations .

And even if its no danger to travel , this kind of news will make people here think twice about going to Thailand.

Especially families with kids , high season starts in 3 months so if this goes on I'm sure Thailand will suffer a lot....

Lets hope it will get back to normal soon.

It already has had a bad effect. I sell travel and already had 7 cancellations. 5 of which just happened today. Whats interesting is that 2 individuals also cancelled Cambodia because they are worried that if the PAD somehow manage to get into power, they might declare war on Cambodia

LOL ROFL

Not too funny if you are a low class Thai relying on tourist income to feed the family.

I was refering to the comment about Cambodia.

Speaking about tourist income...a light just came on....so many foreigners keep posting their ANTI-PAD rants here, which mostly are full of inaccuracy (with a few exceptions). Is their motive maybe, because they are loosing money? Bar owners, massage parlar owners, resort and guesthouse owners, travel businesses??? I couldn't figure out, why some of these posters almost seem to be foaming from the mouth, but it's starting to make sense now. Maybe it's because the protests are hurting their thick wallets? Maybe they are afraid that there servants and slave workforce might see the light and organize one day, demanding fair wages and benefits????

Just a thought ;-)

I am sure all the tourist orientated businesses will suffer. Not just bar owners. And I don't think any of them would be thick enough to think they could change things by posting on ThaiVisa.

I agree on the part of all the tourist related businesses suffering (and didn't mean to single any of them out. They were just the first ones that came to mind)....as for the part about being thick enough, I am not sure sure ;-)

[blaze]

I found this from Asia Times, one of Manager Groups Websites.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ID27Ae01.html

And if anyone can prove it is a spoof, I please ask the mods to remove it.

Recollections, revelations of a protest leader

By Shawn W Crispin

An interview given by Sondhi.

I don't want to copy it all because there are many references to a very respected man.

No it's not a spoof. It is a genuine interview that can also be accessed in General Topics in Thaivisa. And anyone genuinely interested in what motivates Sondhi should read this article- the relationship between him and the Chinese middle class- his relationship with the elites- why he will be more careful this time around about which particular coupsters he throws his hat in with- the nature of his hostility to Thaksin and what he thinks motivates his supporters.

..

Edited September 2, 2008 by blaze

[animatic]

Pretty convincing arguement... but it's lacking something...

People who want fair and transparent elections and wanna root out corruptly elected gov't are now seen by some on here as anti-democratic. 555555 I have to laugh.

I know, irony so thick, you'd need more than a butter knife to cut through it.

Seems lately some would recommend a machette!

Edited September 2, 2008 by animatic

[Tony Clifton]

This is really bad for the tourism , over here in Scandinavia its headline news on all the tv stations .

And even if its no danger to travel , this kind of news will make people here think twice about going to Thailand.

Especially families with kids , high season starts in 3 months so if this goes on I'm sure Thailand will suffer a lot....

Lets hope it will get back to normal soon.

Look at the bright side, it may save a few lives on the roads or keep them away from yet another strange murder plot, maybe save a few jumpers, prevent a few rapes and policemen ripping off tourists or intentionally botching their murder investigations once they've been sent back to their respective countries in a body bag.

Tourism is not what Thailand needs right now.

[adjan jb]

I was refering to the comment about Cambodia.

Yeah I bet you do, another nice one that was a little bit PAD related don't you think. Of course to go further into that would be OT.

Beleive in me I am no supporter for PAD nor the PPP. If I had my way, I would ban the whole lot from politics/pressure group as they all hold criminal/ corruption records. Problem is I have no idea who could replace them!

Abhisit man, Abhisit.

Supachai Panitchpakdi

[gbswales]

Campaigning for new elections is one thing - occupying building, creating civil unrest is quite another. I am not saying that there are never occasions where these tools are not needed but only in extreme situations where basic human rights are being violated on a large scale - not simply because you dont like the government the people have chosen. A successful government in Thailand will the the one that succeeds in re-distributing wealth across the country and reducing the wealth in Bangkok - even if a true socialist government got into power and did this, something like the PAD would spring up and wealthy sponsors would bus in demonstrators to try and bring it down. It takes decades for real democracy to develop - rushed it will never work!

[jongkolkhoo]

I was refering to the comment about Cambodia.

Yeah I bet you do, another nice one that was a little bit PAD related don't you think. Of course to go further into that would be OT.

Beleive in me I am no supporter for PAD nor the PPP. If I had my way, I would ban the whole lot from politics/pressure group as they all hold criminal/ corruption records. Problem is I have no idea who could replace them!

Abhisit man, Abhisit.

He is a really good man but can he handle this huge mess?

after the taksin ork pai we have samak ork pai. whoelse would be the ork pai man after this?

Alot of finances supporting private projects from overseas are currently being delayed due to this mess. if s&p or moody drop thailand's rating, the delays will be shelved for good.

can the PPP and PAD fight quietly? solve the mess with minimum impact to thailand's fragile economy?

[rocky3]

I am a firm supporter of PAD and the protest....

It has always been a peaceful protest, in hopes of stopping further corruption and theft of the country to benefit a few at the top.

My wife bears the scars of the May 92 protest, when another corrupt government did the same thing to the people that were peacefully assembled. Many were killed and wounded.

The most peaceful outcome would be for word from on High to come down for Samak to find life elsewhere. I thought it would after his visit to Hua Hin last week.

How can this be a peaceful protest, when you entered the government compound and the NBT under violent measures and caused damage to government and civilian property? Why do you need to instruct your guards to beat back the police if they try to evict us or arrest us under court ordered arrest warrants? ( now there is an injunction in effect). This whole mess is unlawful and should be stopped at all costs.... What legal grounds do you claim now that this is no longer a peaceful demonstration nor has it been since the begining. Your stated goal is to stay until the government resigns or a coup takes over and you will use any means available to accomplish this including violence to get the military involved in the overthrough of the elected government. You will not yield at any point so talking or compromise is out the question. It has been proposed that a referendum should be started to ask the people to decide how to solve the inpasse but this appears to be unlawful under the present constitution. So I guess your only solution is for a coup. Good luck and remember that this government was elected under your new constitution so don't forget to amend it to ban all other political parties prior to appointing 70% of the new government with your precious democrats (read dictators) so that you will be guaranteed control of the new government. Well enough of my rant and God and the King helps us avooid anarchy.