State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[Thai at Heart]

And is this the reason why this is all happening?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/12/15...on_30021579.php

Quote

There were 10 families - including the likes of Shinawatra, Damapong, Wongsawat, Mahagitsiri, Maleenont and Jungrungreangkit - who formed the core of the New Money. Through siblings, business and political connections, New Money wanted to change Thailand's political landscape for good.

The bankers embody Old Money. But the bankers got hurt very badly during the 1997 financial crisis. The IMF, the World Bank and the tough capital adequacy requirements they imposed on the Thai banks almost destroyed the bankers' family fortune."

Endquote

http://www.reference.com/search?q=2005-200...itical%20crisis

http://www.answers.com/topic/thaksin-shinawatra

Quote

"January 2006, hundreds of protestors headed by Sondhi Limthongkul, former senator Pratin Santiprapop, Klanarong Chantik, and Democrat MP Kalaya Sophonpanich stormed into Government House at half past midnight, overwhelming security forces. They occupied the building for twenty minutes before regrouping outside and continuing their protest."

End Quote

Look who is the honorary chairman of Bangkok Bank!!

I believe purely and simply that Sondhi wanted in with the original TRT crowd, and when he wasn't given it (that was given to Maleenont), he turned on them. He is trying to smash TRT/PPP not deliver some new wonderful future. He is their tool to put them as they believe back on the top of the pile.

[cmsally]

Those are some of the reasons but there are others too. Difficult to tell exactly how they all fit in. Even people in positions where they should really know what is going on, seem to not to. Bit of a mess really.

[Thai at Heart]

Those are some of the reasons but there are others too. Difficult to tell exactly how they all fit in. Even people in positions where they should really know what is going on, seem to not to. Bit of a mess really.

There is always a "Why?" to explain why people do things that are completely out of character. In most situations, particularly Thai politics, it is money.

Sondhi Limtongkul is trying to sell a very dangerous lie to this country. There are problems in Thailand yes, but far bigger problems to solve than democracy.

He is carrying out an agenda by laying the failings of a system at the lowest part of the social strata. When they dare to oppose him, violence insues, and it adds to his profecy that these people are too illeducated for reasoned discussion. Sounds rather like the Reichstag fire. He is hoping that people don't notice what he wants to discuss. He plays the reasonable man by saying, maybe not 70:30, maybe 50:50 as though this is a reasonable compromise and worthy of discussion. He proposes to save the country by taking something away from the people.

He tells us that democracy won't work because Thailand is different. Thailand is not different. There are simply a lot of powerful people with a narrow financial interest in preventing it from maturing. They are democratic and economic nimbys.

The problem is not democracy, the problem is Sondhi and his agenda. One day he might just have to answer to those up country, and it may not be at the ballot box.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Thai at Heart

[LaoPo]

Those are some of the reasons but there are others too. Difficult to tell exactly how they all fit in. Even people in positions where they should really know what is going on, seem to not to. Bit of a mess really.

There is always a "Why?" to explain why people do things that are completely out of character. In most situations, particularly Thai politics, it is money.

Sondhi Limtongkul is trying to sell a very dangerous lie to this country. There are problems in Thailand yes, but far bigger problems to solve than democracy.

He is carrying out an agenda by laying the failings of a system at the lowest part of the social strata. When they dare to oppose him, violence insues, and it adds to his profecy that these people are too illeducated for reasoned discussion. Sounds rather like the Reichstag fire. He is hoping that people don't notice what he wants to discuss. He plays the reasonable man by saying, maybe not 70:30, maybe 50:50 as though this is a reasonable compromise and worthy of discussion. He proposes to save the country by taking something away from the people.

He tells us that democracy won't work because Thailand is different. Thailand is not different. There are simply a lot of powerful people with a narrow financial interest in preventing it from maturing. They are democratic and economic nimbys.

The problem is not democracy, the problem is Sondhi and his agenda. One day he might just have to answer to those up country, and it may not be at the ballot box.

My compliments; you have a very sharp eye what's REALLY happening !

The worse...the most sickening is that Sondhi is insulting the MAJORITY of Thai BECAUSE they didn't have the opportunity, the money, the chance to study, to educate themselves but had to work hard for a few Baht instead.

He wants to take away the fundamental right in every single democracy: the right to vote !

Well, maybe Thaksin and Samak and their predecessors (who didn't do too well either....) didn't do their job very good but at least they gave the rural poor something they never enjoyed before:

HOPE for a better future and at least they were able to vote, paid or not.

What's more wrong:

1. being paid for your vote

OR

2. not being paid and not allowed to vote anymore ?

The PAD/Sondhi is a most dangerous movement for Thailand and the most astonishing is that the protesters themselves are not even seeing what's happening and what they're fighting for....their own downfall.

Personally, I don't believe for a second in the good intentions from Sondhi. It's his personal battle against the other side of the Elite who forced him to bankruptcy in 1997 and his mind is hatred and he will try and use every single opportunity to bring those people down, once he has the power to do so.

He is NOT AT ALL interested in the future for the rural poor.....otherwise he would NEVER have suggested he 70:30 power scale...

This man is DANGEROUS !

LaoPo

Edited September 8, 2008 by LaoPo

[ando]

They have just said above that they will not negotiate with the present govt or anyone that sides with it. Their discussions on the new politics is going to be a bit one sided isn't it. But of course this is necessary if they are to recognise the majority decision (can't have the wrong majority can we).

I am joining Lao Po. Surely others see the danger in this and am starting to understand where some people see the similarities to communism. This could be leading to a totalitarian one party system, with a nasty backlash of informants if you happen to have the "wrong " viewpoint. After all it suggests that opposition is to be simply dismissed and dealt with. Doesn't seem to be much of a recourse to law and justice. You are simply right or wrong. After all if they manage to topple this govt. by being simply "right and ethical", who is anyone else to argue.

Scary stuff indeed.

Good post cmsally.

It is indeed scary stuff!

The PAD agenda would turn Thailand into a virtual dictatorship run by the elite old money class under the guise of a semi-democracy. And almost certainly with the support of the military.

[sriracha john]

Seems like a good excuse to abolish democracy. --- The PM hosts a cooking show. Meanwhile, armed thugs are allowed to take over government property and run rampant in the streets. Is there any hope for this country?

Yeah.

Just that these "armed thugs" were neither armed nor thugs until the REAL armed thugs from the DAAD showed up. Then they (PAD) at least armed themselves, they're still not thugs yet - THAT is a government position.

Thanh

The PAD armed thugs took over the NBT station with semi-automatic weapons, clubs, golf clubs ect. and many had drugs on them. This happened before the illegal take over of the Government House and before the DAAD ralley. You don't have any idea what you are talking about.

Indeed, one man holding a small quantity of class-5 krathom explains your "many had drugs" hyperbole.

I also guess you never googled the arrestee as I suggested about 1,600 posts ago, huh?

[sriracha john]

What the PAD really want... an interview (scroll down)

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JI09Ae01.html

Asia Times (owned by Sondhi Limthongkul...Mr. PAD) went bankrupt in 1997 but an online edition, run by some of Asia Times former staff, continues to operate Asia Times Online.

I highly doubt if the present Asia Times Online is 100% objective and/or has no (behind the scenes) ties/connections with Sondhi anymore...

Remember, Sondhi was infamous for hiding companies, entities and assets overseas...the same as his former close friend and ally, Mr. T. did.

It's a bluddy mess, the whole system and ALL people involved.

LaoPo

So now, all of a sudden, we're going to discount and slam the writings of Shawn Crispin? One of the few reliable journalists left.

[plachon]

It seems that the PAD did see the danger.

From a speech

Thaksin Shinawatra, leader of Thai Rak Thai Party,

speech at Sanam Luang, 4 February 20051

(translated by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit)

http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~ppasuk...lection2005.pdf

Since we have had a couple of weeks of Sondhi and Samak, lets get to the root of the problem.

"We will negotiate with the expressways and introduce computer

systems to help, so paying the toll will be quick, just easily deducted from a bank account,

not collecting 40 baht each time which is annoying and expensive. We’ll make the

expressway tolls very cheap.

I will build more sport stadiums and more parks. There will be places to exercise in

the morning everywhere. Wherever there’s a public space, let me know. I’ve done it

everywhere under the expressway already. Bangkok municipality didn’t do it, I did it

myself. No matter, I can find the money myself. And schools will be turned into good

schools, and all close to home, so there’s no need to travel a long way."

Sounds very funny coming from a man whose son was caught with a cheat sheet at his mid-term university exam.

Lety's not forget his daughter's grade, too low for the admission exam in another universitythat brought embarassment onto itself by lowering the passing grades after receiving orders to do so

Narcissism at it's best.

Sounds even funnier coming from a PM who promised Bangkok cabbies he'd give them all a cab of their own and a scholarship for their kids to study abroad, if they'd just join his TRT crusade and put a "We love Thaksin" sticker next to the "I love farang" one. What a selfless, genuine person he was. Just can't understand why anyone should have a bad word to say for this true man of the people and his pure, honest, misunderstood progeny who made simple mistakes anyone might have made in their exams. Even the Ramkhamhaeng rector agreed and said, "Hey, everyone cheats. What's the big deal?"

[sriracha john]

The ENTIRE world will look and almost laugh themselves to death if the Thai government is overthrown because of a cooking PM..........

Let's wait until 2pm tomorrow. I'll laugh my head off first. Only in Thailand. What a great reason to pull a Prime Minister

He wouldn't be the first head of state removed for conflict of interest... or for having unauthorized and illegal business dealings.

[LaoPo]

What the PAD really want... an interview (scroll down)

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JI09Ae01.html

Asia Times (owned by Sondhi Limthongkul...Mr. PAD) went bankrupt in 1997 but an online edition, run by some of Asia Times former staff, continues to operate Asia Times Online.

I highly doubt if the present Asia Times Online is 100% objective and/or has no (behind the scenes) ties/connections with Sondhi anymore...

Remember, Sondhi was infamous for hiding companies, entities and assets overseas...the same as his former close friend and ally, Mr. T. did.

It's a bluddy mess, the whole system and ALL people involved.

LaoPo

So now, all of a sudden, we're going to discount and slam the writings of Shawn Crispin? One of the few reliable journalists left.

I didn't mention one word about Mr. Crispin and thus didn't discount or slam the same Gentleman.

I wrote: I highly doubt if the present Asia Times Online is 100% objective and/or has no (behind the scenes) ties/connections with Sondhi anymore..

If you are able to prove that my doubt is not funded I'm more than willing to apologize.

LaoPo

[plachon]

Those are some of the reasons but there are others too. Difficult to tell exactly how they all fit in. Even people in positions where they should really know what is going on, seem to not to. Bit of a mess really.

There is always a "Why?" to explain why people do things that are completely out of character. In most situations, particularly Thai politics, it is money.

Sondhi Limtongkul is trying to sell a very dangerous lie to this country. There are problems in Thailand yes, but far bigger problems to solve than democracy.

He is carrying out an agenda by laying the failings of a system at the lowest part of the social strata. When they dare to oppose him, violence insues, and it adds to his profecy that these people are too illeducated for reasoned discussion. Sounds rather like the Reichstag fire. He is hoping that people don't notice what he wants to discuss. He plays the reasonable man by saying, maybe not 70:30, maybe 50:50 as though this is a reasonable compromise and worthy of discussion. He proposes to save the country by taking something away from the people.

He tells us that democracy won't work because Thailand is different. Thailand is not different. There are simply a lot of powerful people with a narrow financial interest in preventing it from maturing. They are democratic and economic nimbys.

The problem is not democracy, the problem is Sondhi and his agenda. One day he might just have to answer to those up country, and it may not be at the ballot box.

My compliments; you have a very sharp eye what's REALLY happening !

The worse...the most sickening is that Sondhi is insulting the MAJORITY of Thai BECAUSE they didn't have the opportunity, the money, the chance to study, to educate themselves but had to work hard for a few Baht instead.

He wants to take away the fundamental right in every single democracy: the right to vote !

Well, maybe Thaksin and Samak and their predecessors (who didn't do too well either....) didn't do their job very good but at least they gave the rural poor something they never enjoyed before:

HOPE for a better future and at least they were able to vote, paid or not.

What's more wrong:

1. being paid for your vote

OR

2. not being paid and not allowed to vote anymore ?

The PAD/Sondhi is a most dangerous movement for Thailand and the most astonishing is that the protesters themselves are not even seeing what's happening and what they're fighting for....their own downfall.

Personally, I don't believe for a second in the good intentions from Sondhi. It's his personal battle against the other side of the Elite who forced him to bankruptcy in 1997 and his mind is hatred and he will try and use every single opportunity to bring those people down, once he has the power to do so.

He is NOT AT ALL interested in the future for the rural poor.....otherwise he would NEVER have suggested he 70:30 power scale...

This man is DANGEROUS !

LaoPo

Funny how you never got this irate when Toxin was in power or Samak made the PM's seat, but now you're getting your knickers seriously in a twist about a guy who is unlikely ever to lead a Thai government, but has been instrumental in raising to the public's attention some of the worst abuses of a system that flies in the face of democracy in nearly every aspect, bar the facade of elections. You seem to be losing a sense of perspective LaoPo after quite a long time of rationalism in your posts. Hope you don't end up like Colpyat and lose the plot!

[LaoPo]

The ENTIRE world will look and almost laugh themselves to death if the Thai government is overthrown because of a cooking PM..........

Let's wait until 2pm tomorrow. I'll laugh my head off first. Only in Thailand. What a great reason to pull a Prime Minister

He wouldn't be the first head of state removed for conflict of interest... or for having unauthorized and illegal business dealings.

Like Nixon's Watergate ?

LaoPo

[sriracha john]

The ENTIRE world will look and almost laugh themselves to death if the Thai government is overthrown because of a cooking PM..........

Let's wait until 2pm tomorrow. I'll laugh my head off first. Only in Thailand.[/b][/size][/color] What a great reason to pull a Prime Minister

Indeed. The greatest lunatic show on Earth...only in Thailand.Can you imagine the hundreds of Champagne Bottles popping tomorrow evening at many dinner parties in the 5* Hotels where the "behind the curtains BKK Boys & Girls" enjoy their meals, cheering: WE DID IT....WE TOPPLED THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE PM WAS COOKING ON TELEVISION:cheesy:

I can't wait to see the headlines in the West. How deep has Thailand sunken.... The Titanic drama is a bath tub toy piece in comparison what happens here.LaoPo

If he is removed today, it'll be a real shame in a way because then the world will be deprived of seeing Samak take to the podium of the UN General Assembly and show his face and mind and heart to the all the world to see...

and that would likely sink the country for a decade as the impression the world would have of Thailand would inevitably be...

"Say Thailand, wasn't that the country where that ridiculously crazy, buffoonish, fat, old man who tried to speak at the U.N. was from?"

Edited September 8, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

What the PAD really want... an interview (scroll down)

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JI09Ae01.html

Asia Times (owned by Sondhi Limthongkul...Mr. PAD) went bankrupt in 1997 but an online edition, run by some of Asia Times former staff, continues to operate Asia Times Online.

I highly doubt if the present Asia Times Online is 100% objective and/or has no (behind the scenes) ties/connections with Sondhi anymore...

Remember, Sondhi was infamous for hiding companies, entities and assets overseas...the same as his former close friend and ally, Mr. T. did.

It's a bluddy mess, the whole system and ALL people involved.

LaoPo

So now, all of a sudden, we're going to discount and slam the writings of Shawn Crispin? One of the few reliable journalists left.

I didn't mention one word about Mr. Crispin and thus didn't discount or slam the same Gentleman.

I wrote: I highly doubt if the present Asia Times Online is 100% objective and/or has no (behind the scenes) ties/connections with Sondhi anymore..

If you are able to prove that my doubt is not funded I'm more than willing to apologize.

LaoPo

So I have to disprove your allegation rather than you having to first prove your allegation. Interesting concept.

By the way, Crispin works for AT... if you're saying the company he works for is not objective, you're implying his writings for this company are also not objective.

[plachon]

The ENTIRE world will look and almost laugh themselves to death if the Thai government is overthrown because of a cooking PM..........

Let's wait until 2pm tomorrow. I'll laugh my head off first. Only in Thailand.[/b][/size][/color] What a great reason to pull a Prime Minister

Indeed. The greatest lunatic show on Earth...only in Thailand.Can you imagine the hundreds of Champagne Bottles popping tomorrow evening at many dinner parties in the 5* Hotels where the "behind the curtains BKK Boys & Girls" enjoy their meals, cheering: WE DID IT....WE TOPPLED THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE PM WAS COOKING ON TELEVISION:cheesy:

I can't wait to see the headlines in the West. How deep has Thailand sunken.... The Titanic drama is a bath tub toy piece in comparison what happens here.LaoPo

If he is removed today, it'll be a real shame in a way because then the world will be deprived of seeing Samak take to the podium of the UN General Assembly and show his face and mind and heart to the all the world to see...

and that would likely sink the country for a decade as the impression the world would have of Thailand would inevitably be...

"Say Thailand, wasn't that the country where that ridiculously crazy, buffoonish, fat, old man who tried to speak at the U.N. was from?"

Don't worry John, the FM would probably stop him from saying more than 2 sentences of self-congratulatory gibberish and then tell him to go and sit in the corner and make origami cranes. The danger to the nation of him speaking ad lib or some other delegate asking him about his human rights record and him asking them back if they had sinful sex last night would be just too big a risk to bear. They'd have to do a Ronnie Reagan on him and drug him up on kratom-flavoured jelly beans, before they'd let that porcine-featured liability even near the UN General Assembly.

[sriracha john]

Lao Po

You are sick. It's a joke to have a cook as prime minister. You are the one who is narrow minded. If Taksin, Samak and friends were not so corrupt there would not be a PAD at all.

Why are you bashing at Sondhi? I'm not a fan of him but I'm certainly not a fan of this Taksin and Samak basterds who only think about themself and their ego's.

Even if they are elected "democrationaly" they still have to serve the Thai people and not themself and their cronies and family.

Wake up. It's not only the people in governmenthouse but there are millions who are silent but supporting of Pad even though they don't agree with everything. There are so many people even in Chiangmai who hate Samak and Taksin but don't dare to raise their voice because that's dangerous because of this government supporters who now go after everybody in yellow supported by the fine boys of the PPP. Sick. sick

Try to be civil old chap -ouwe reus- . Look at our fellow PM doing all kinds of crazy things like driving racing cars, appearing in all kinds of television shows (including a cooking show !), kissing girls and talking language like a fully automated machine at the same time and which nobody understands.

Do you hear anybody protest because of that ?

Only when it's revealed that a prime minister was a paid employees of a private company.

Do you think that would be acceptable anywhere?

[LaoPo]

Funny how you never got this irate when Toxin was in power or Samak made the PM's seat, but now you're getting your knickers seriously in a twist about a guy who is unlikely ever to lead a Thai government, but has been instrumental in raising to the public's attention some of the worst abuses of a system that flies in the face of democracy in nearly every aspect, bar the facade of elections. You seem to be losing a sense of perspective LaoPo after quite a long time of rationalism in your posts. Hope you don't end up like Colpyat and lose the plot!

.

Thaksin is history and I became a member here in October 2004 but I notice you became one of the early members, 1 year and 4 months ahead of me, in June 2003; so you probably know more about the early history of the Thaksin elections and governance than myself.

I didn't take participate very much in the discussions about Thaksin/TRT and Samak/PPP because the endless discussions made me tired and sick because there is no way that I could possibly have changed anything for the better.

The PAD, founded by Mr. Sondhi Limthongkul, however is a different piece of cake.

WHY ?

Because Mr. Sondhi is a master in manipulating the masses whilst at the same time he wishes to FORCE a new political system upon the country and it's people by dividing the POWER into 70:30.

70 appointed (by WHOM ?) and 30 for the elected people; but the majority of the rural poor is uneducated and thus not intelligent enough to vote in Mr. Sondhi's eyes that is.

A more discriminating insult to the Thai population is unthinkable.

And that Mr. Plachon is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS for Thailand and you ought to know and realize the same...

And, if you say that it is unlikely that Mr. Sondhi ever wishes to lead the government (in front of, or behind the velvet curtains) you could be so wrong !

That is why I warn here for the PAD and it's Master, Sondhi Limthongkul.

PS: I am not sure what you mean that I would end up the same as ColPyat and losing the plot. Are you suggesting that I would become banned or something ? For what...expressing my opinion ?

LaoPo

Edited September 8, 2008 by LaoPo

[LaoPo]

So I have to disprove your allegation rather than you having to first prove your allegation. Interesting concept.

By the way, Crispin works for AT... if you're saying the company he works for is not objective, you're implying his writings for this company are also not objective.

You're always twisting what I write. I wrote: "I highly doubt......" but I didn't doubt for a second you would come up with an answer, as always.

You can't change my opinion and I can't change yours.

Only time will tell.

With respect SRJ, as always.

LaoPo

[sriracha john]

The ENTIRE world will look and almost laugh themselves to death if the Thai government is overthrown because of a cooking PM..........

Let's wait until 2pm tomorrow. I'll laugh my head off first. Only in Thailand.[/b][/size][/color] What a great reason to pull a Prime Minister

Indeed. The greatest lunatic show on Earth...only in Thailand.Can you imagine the hundreds of Champagne Bottles popping tomorrow evening at many dinner parties in the 5* Hotels where the "behind the curtains BKK Boys & Girls" enjoy their meals, cheering: WE DID IT....WE TOPPLED THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE PM WAS COOKING ON TELEVISION:cheesy:

I can't wait to see the headlines in the West. How deep has Thailand sunken.... The Titanic drama is a bath tub toy piece in comparison what happens here.LaoPo

If he is removed today, it'll be a real shame in a way because then the world will be deprived of seeing Samak take to the podium of the UN General Assembly and show his face and mind and heart to the all the world to see...

and that would likely sink the country for a decade as the impression the world would have of Thailand would inevitably be...

"Say Thailand, wasn't that the country where that ridiculously crazy, buffoonish, fat, old man who tried to speak at the U.N. was from?"

Don't worry John, the FM would probably stop him from saying more than 2 sentences of self-congratulatory gibberish and then tell him to go and sit in the corner and make origami cranes. The danger to the nation of him speaking ad lib or some other delegate asking him about his human rights record and him asking them back if they had sinful sex last night would be just too big a risk to bear. They'd have to do a Ronnie Reagan on him and drug him up on kratom-flavoured jelly beans, before they'd let that porcine-featured liability even near the UN General Assembly.

I just hope they have his meds properly adjusted so he doesn't keel over again and hit his head on the UN podium....

[sriracha john]

So I have to disprove your allegation rather than you having to first prove your allegation. Interesting concept.

By the way, Crispin works for AT... if you're saying the company he works for is not objective, you're implying his writings for this company are also not objective.

You're always twisting what I write. I wrote: "I highly doubt......" but I didn't doubt for a second you would come up with an answer, as always.

You can't change my opinion and I can't change yours.

Only time will tell.

With respect SRJ, as always.

LaoPo

as always...

I think the merit of Crispin's writings stand on their own. I don't always agree with them, but I nevertheless don't ever say they aren't objective or credible.

As for saying the company he works for isn't credible, by extension that would mean the writings (including Crispin's) they offer... unless you are saying their website banner ads or their FAQ section or some other aspect of, other than their writings, aren't objective.

Edited September 8, 2008 by sriracha john

[LaoPo]

So I have to disprove your allegation rather than you having to first prove your allegation. Interesting concept.

By the way, Crispin works for AT... if you're saying the company he works for is not objective, you're implying his writings for this company are also not objective.

You're always twisting what I write. I wrote: "I highly doubt......" but I didn't doubt for a second you would come up with an answer, as always.

You can't change my opinion and I can't change yours.

Only time will tell.

With respect SRJ, as always.

LaoPo

as always...

I think the merit of Crispin's writings stand on their own. I don't always agree with them, but I nevertheless don't ever say they aren't objective or credible.

As for saying the company he works for isn't credible, by extension that would mean the writings (including Crispin's) they offer... unless you are saying their website banner ads or their FAQ section or some other aspect of, other than their writings, aren't objective.

My last word on this:

I DID NOT talk about Crispin; you are. End of story.

I hope I'm clear.

LaoPo

[sriracha john]

The REAL future danger is in Sondhi's plan to SILENCE the same Millions of supporters you are talking about; the uneducated MAJORITY in Thailand he wants to shut up and let them VOTE NO MORE !

Do you have a quote on that?

[sriracha john]

So I have to disprove your allegation rather than you having to first prove your allegation. Interesting concept.

By the way, Crispin works for AT... if you're saying the company he works for is not objective, you're implying his writings for this company are also not objective.

You're always twisting what I write. I wrote: "I highly doubt......" but I didn't doubt for a second you would come up with an answer, as always.

You can't change my opinion and I can't change yours.

Only time will tell.

With respect SRJ, as always.

LaoPo

as always...

I think the merit of Crispin's writings stand on their own. I don't always agree with them, but I nevertheless don't ever say they aren't objective or credible.

As for saying the company he works for isn't credible, by extension that would mean the writings (including Crispin's) they offer... unless you are saying their website banner ads or their FAQ section or some other aspect of, other than their writings, aren't objective.

My last word on this:

I DID NOT talk about Crispin; you are. End of story.

I hope I'm clear.

LaoPo

Fair enough. So the story is that the article is credible and objective.

Thank you.

[plachon]

Funny how you never got this irate when Toxin was in power or Samak made the PM's seat, but now you're getting your knickers seriously in a twist about a guy who is unlikely ever to lead a Thai government, but has been instrumental in raising to the public's attention some of the worst abuses of a system that flies in the face of democracy in nearly every aspect, bar the facade of elections. You seem to be losing a sense of perspective LaoPo after quite a long time of rationalism in your posts. Hope you don't end up like Colpyat and lose the plot!

.

Thaksin is history and I became a member here in October 2004 but I notice you became one of the early members, 1 year and 4 months ahead of me, in June 2003; so you probably know more about the early history of the Thaksin elections and governance than myself.

I didn't take participate very much in the discussions about Thaksin/TRT and Samak/PPP because the endless discussions made me tired and sick because there is no way that I could possibly have changed anything for the better.

The PAD, founded by Mr. Sondhi Limthongkul, however is a different piece of cake.

WHY ?

Because Mr. Sondhi is a master in manipulating the masses whilst at the same time he wishes to FORCE a new political system upon the country and it's people by dividing the POWER into 70:30.

70 appointed (by WHOM ?) and 30 for the elected people; but the majority of the rural poor is uneducated and thus not intelligent enough to vote in Mr. Sondhi's eyes that is.

A more discriminating insult to the Thai population is unthinkable.

And that Mr. Plachon is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS for Thailand and you ought to know and realize the same...

And, if you say that it is unlikely that Mr. Sondhi ever wishes to lead the government (in front of, or behind the velvet curtains) you could be so wrong !

That is why I warn here for the PAD and it's Master, Sondhi Limthongkul.

PS: I am not sure what you mean that I would end up the same as ColPyat and losing the plot. Are you suggesting that I would become banned or something ? For what...expressing my opinion ?

LaoPo

If the "masses" actually read The Manager or watched ASTV, then you might have a point about manipulation, but as it is the government stations and a few pro-Toxin channels still have dominion over the thought processes of the masses, so no need to worry about that scenario quite yet LaoPo.

Also, you shouldn't allow yourself to get too worked up about the 70:30 suggestion or Sonthi's mastery of the PAD coalition. I believe he actually listens to other's opinions, something that Toxin and the present PM have always been incapabe of doing. Like his namesake Frankie, Toxin always preferred "I did it my way" and has lost the game as a result. Sonthi is more sophisticated and realises for democracy to take hold it needs a system of participation in politics that is not present at the moment. A new politics is needed, which is in the process of being discussed by diverse groups and individuals. But for it to happen, the present impediment of a corrupt, crony capitalist government of die in the wool vote buyers needs to be removed. The Toxic abcess is deep and will need to be thoroughly cleaned out before a new start can occur. And the man behind the abcess is still very much hovering around, like a fly to a wound. So, don't for a minute believe Toxin is history or your level of reasoned analysis will certainly be called into question by many on this board.

No, I'm not suggesting you may be banned like the said serial miscreant, but I am suggesting your sense of balance about such matters seems to be swinging off kilter of late and you should perhaps think about taking a break from Thai politics and enjoying some fresh air and coffee away from the stress it can induce. This comment is meant in the kindest possible way.

Peace.

[plachon]

The ENTIRE world will look and almost laugh themselves to death if the Thai government is overthrown because of a cooking PM..........

Let's wait until 2pm tomorrow. I'll laugh my head off first. Only in Thailand.[/b][/size][/color] What a great reason to pull a Prime Minister

Indeed. The greatest lunatic show on Earth...only in Thailand.Can you imagine the hundreds of Champagne Bottles popping tomorrow evening at many dinner parties in the 5* Hotels where the "behind the curtains BKK Boys & Girls" enjoy their meals, cheering: WE DID IT....WE TOPPLED THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE PM WAS COOKING ON TELEVISION:cheesy:

I can't wait to see the headlines in the West. How deep has Thailand sunken.... The Titanic drama is a bath tub toy piece in comparison what happens here.LaoPo

If he is removed today, it'll be a real shame in a way because then the world will be deprived of seeing Samak take to the podium of the UN General Assembly and show his face and mind and heart to the all the world to see...

and that would likely sink the country for a decade as the impression the world would have of Thailand would inevitably be...

"Say Thailand, wasn't that the country where that ridiculously crazy, buffoonish, fat, old man who tried to speak at the U.N. was from?"

Don't worry John, the FM would probably stop him from saying more than 2 sentences of self-congratulatory gibberish and then tell him to go and sit in the corner and make origami cranes. The danger to the nation of him speaking ad lib or some other delegate asking him about his human rights record and him asking them back if they had sinful sex last night would be just too big a risk to bear. They'd have to do a Ronnie Reagan on him and drug him up on kratom-flavoured jelly beans, before they'd let that porcine-featured liability even near the UN General Assembly.

I just hope they have his meds properly adjusted so he doesn't keel over again and hit his head on the UN podium....

I guess he could always cook 'em up a pad thai for lunch and sneak off for a few hours shopping in NYCity a la Vientiane diplomacy, instead of risking damaging Thailand's image by taking to the podium.

[sriracha john]

Just to pick out some pieces from PAD statement:

Even if politicians resign or a House dissolution occurs, Thai politics will continue in this vicious cycle if no efforts are made to reform it.

So I think we can safely say that the PAD have decidedly longer term and more far reaching objectives than the resignation of Samak.

Support for good people to manage the country and blocking of evil people from coming to power so all sectors of society are ensured justice.

Crikey that's open to interpretation.

Is it really?? I think it simply means that they would prefer that those managing the country to not be criminal litigants as so many of the current government are. Is that concept really so "scary" as it was characterized earlier?

[sriracha john]

It seems that the PAD did see the danger.

From a speech

Thaksin Shinawatra, leader of Thai Rak Thai Party,

speech at Sanam Luang, 4 February 20051

(translated by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit)

http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~ppasuk...lection2005.pdf

Since we have had a couple of weeks of Sondhi and Samak, lets get to the root of the problem.

umm tough one that but like the kennedy quote

I don't deny that he was corrupt, he should have paid his taxes, the extra judicial killings were awful. But when you campaign on mobility for the poor like he talks of here, I can imagine the shivers going down the old money's spine.

as well as human rights lawyers, the entire Deep South, any Shin-related business competitors, etc. etc.

[sriracha john]

It seems that the PAD did see the danger.

From a speech

Thaksin Shinawatra, leader of Thai Rak Thai Party,

speech at Sanam Luang, 4 February 20051

(translated by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit)

http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~ppasuk...lection2005.pdf

Since we have had a couple of weeks of Sondhi and Samak, lets get to the root of the problem.

"I will build more sport stadiums and more parks. There will be places to exercise in

the morning everywhere."

Shame he never got around to that as otherwise we could have avoided the recent Udon Thani beatings.... as the UDD claimed they attacked the PAD because the PAD rally was going to interfere with their aerobics routine at the park. If there had been adequate park space, then those PAD men and women would have never needed to be clubbed.

[sriracha john]

The ENTIRE world will look and almost laugh themselves to death if the Thai government is overthrown because of a cooking PM..........

Let's wait until 2pm tomorrow. I'll laugh my head off first. Only in Thailand. What a great reason to pull a Prime Minister

The trial for his cooking show comes on top of a defamation suit and three corruption charges he faces.

This is the best candidate PPP had to offer their country for a PM?

In working democracies, he would have been told to get his sh!t straightened out before daring to approach the party with such court cases still ongoing.

There would have been public outrage had been tried in N. America and many European countries.

Saw Samak doing his little routine in court while at the dentists's office today. Wondering why the judge was smiling, my wife said he was trying to intimidate and using rude language when replying to the judge, he apparently got his change back and more. Doesn't matter who's in power, TRT/PPP have always thought and shown that the law is something that doesn't apply to them.

Why would a mafia syndicate wearing a political party costume think differently?

Good post Tony and I mean that.

IF he's toppled tomorrow the rest of the world will not learn (or hardly) about the other charges. They will learn that a legitimate elected coalition's PM was toppled because he appeared at a cooking show and that's bad for Thailand's image and Thailand will lose face, BIG TIME.

They would lose bigger face if they allowed a Prime Minister to receive money from a private company for a moonlighting second job.

[JoeInSurin]

The Government house is public property , so why shouldn't they be there? You have got to be joking. As a US citizen do I have the right to go sleep in the White House with George Bush? Can I go break down the door of the US Capital and live in it? Can I break down the door to Fort Knox and sit on the money because I am a citizen? There is no excuse for what the PAD has done. They have every right to protest as they were doing before but have now gone way over the line in breaking the law.

Ok so you're zeroing in on my posts, thank you for the attention, i feel flattered. Does the PPP issue you at least a pay slip or do they pay under the table? Do you need a work permit to be the official party representative on foreign-language web forums?? Why do you think that because someone believes people should not break the law they are for the PPP? If PPP has broken laws they should be removed by the courts in accordance with Thai law.

Ok to address the (very valid) points: Does Samak (or any other government official for that matter) actually LIVE in the government house? Are PAD actually IN the building?? I don't think so on both accounts. The PAD is inside the Government house also. That are two of the differences between the White House and the Thai government house. Of course it takes a German to tell an American about that

The Capital. Again, did the PAD break any doors/windows of the actual building, and are they inside the building? As far as i know (without having been at the site) they only camp/sit-in on the land IN FRONT OF the building. As I already stated they are inside. They got in by breaking the locks.

Fort Knox. Are all of Thailand's gold reserves, or any other central monetary items, located inside the government house? Again i don't think so, for lack of armed guards.

Now if YOU want to protest, and you manage to gather a large enough group to actually form a valid protest mass (one man with a banner is likely ineffective), where would YOU stage your protest? In the driveway of your home? On your balcony? Or somewhere where the public can actually see you? Or, even better, where the party you're protesting against can actually see you and SUFFER from your protest? Because that's the whole point of protesting now, or isn't it? The PAD had been protesting since May without breaking the law in plenty of public places which is fine with me. When they broke into NBT and the Government house is what I disagree with.

Now i don't need an American (or anyone for that matter) to tell me that i don't know what i'm talking about. I am actually pretty well informed on what i am talking about, which is the reason why i don't contribute all that much to this topic - if i don't know something i keep my mouth shut and my keyboard silent. However i have a Thai person sitting beside me who has a number of work colleagues that actually joined PAD's protests and therefor ther's some insider knowledge available. I am sure getting your info. from PAD supporters they are giving you a non-partisan view of events. While YOU probably have all your news from television (NBT, yes?) or from the bar you frequent the most (not that that was a bad thing, but information tends to be a little one-sided there). The news from any source shows PAD breaking the law.

Oh, b the way io fully and whole-heartedly agree with you that PAD are breaking the laws, a whole bunch of laws in fact. HOWEVER THEIR breaking those laws does NOT cost the Thai public billions and billions of Baht - while that law-breaking of TRT/Thaksin/PPP/Samak DOES. And i personally DO prefer a "little law breaking with small damage" over a "huge law breaking with huge damage". And - sometimes it takes small criminals to uproot larger criminals, SPECIALLY when the large criminals have the possibility to pardon themselves by amending laws. The SET has lost 1.5 trillion baht since PAD started their protest in May. The tourism sector has lost billions of baht also.

Best regards.....

Thanh