State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[WAERTH]

Some 2,000 students in Phuket skip classes to rally against Samak Government on Tuesday morning. They campaigned for motorists to turn on front lights of vehicles and blow horns to show their disapproval of the govternment.//Yongyot Phruksarak (The Nation)

I find it rather extraordinary that school kids are attending protests. They seem to be in uniform. Do parents give permission ? Do teachers arrange this ? How does this come about ?

(Apologies if discussed already -- impossible to keep up with everything.)

I am not surprise. When I was a kid, I would find excuse to do such a thing. Not that I agree or disagree with the protest, but I to get the day off enjoying the fun with my classmate. Sure beat going to school. I do not represent the majority of the school's student, but there is quite a lot of us, that like to stir trouble (just for the fun of it).

I am not surprised about this either. We had the huge anti nukes protests in the Netherlands in the beginning of the 80's whole schools were bussed in to join the protests. Off course no one ever asked me as a 9-10 year old what my POV on nukes was. The whole school went, organized by the teachers and we were all given t-shirts buttons etc. and we all had to go.

Waerth

[ubonjoe]

Maybe they are waiting for Samak to show up for the verdidct.

[AlKing]

Some of these posters are denying the reality of the situation.

Sondhi and his illegal band of thugs were armed to the teeth long before AAD showed up:

LOL... thanks for that one, I had never before seen an oar being described as "armed to the teeth"... usually those description refer to firearms or at least something more like this...

I'm sure you would be equally amused if the PAD thugs smacked you on the head with it SJ?

Big knives make good photos but the story line someone was trying to give us is that the band of thugs who took over Government House were unarmed, peaceful protesters.

There are hundreds of media pictures out there that show they were anything but unarmed or peaceful.

There are firsthand reports from Bloomberg and other reporters the night of the confrontation of bullets flying by them coming from the Government House toward the AAD mob.

PAD is for the most part armed and paid by the royalist/military/Bangkok elite who wish to overthrow an elected government and install their own henchmen to continue looting the government. Anything else is just fluff to disguise their motives.

~WISteve

May I suggest you look at this post of mine AND ESPECIALLY the two pics included.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2193747

I'm sorry but the distance the mob traveled means nothing to me.

Neither group of armed thugs should be tolerated. They should be disbursed or if they refuse arrested.

If Samak must go, so be it. Let it be though the laws at hand and not by a violent mob.

No good will come to Thailand by installing a legislature appointed by the rich and influential.

~WISteve

I like dity politics and I like to play dirty.

If I were PAD, I would hire some trouble maker to dress in red and swing some big weapons around infront of the (foreign) camera-man. If I pro-govt, I would do the same, just switch the dress to yellow. It should only cost a few thousand baht per actor.

I am sure that both sides have already thought of that.

[ubonjoe]

Samak's Judgement Day

By The Nation online

Follow key developments of another suspenseful day in politics as they happen.

(Please refresh your page regularly for latest information)

2.30 pm: It has been announced that the court is postponing reading the verdict to 3.30 pm.

Continued in previous posts

[Artisi]

Some of these posters are denying the reality of the situation.

Sondhi and his illegal band of thugs were armed to the teeth long before AAD showed up:

LOL... thanks for that one, I had never before seen an oar being described as "armed to the teeth"... usually those description refer to firearms or at least something more like this...

I'm sure you would be equally amused if the PAD thugs smacked you on the head with it SJ?

Big knives make good photos but the story line someone was trying to give us is that the band of thugs who took over Government House were unarmed, peaceful protesters.

There are hundreds of media pictures out there that show they were anything but unarmed or peaceful.

There are firsthand reports from Bloomberg and other reporters the night of the confrontation of bullets flying by them coming from the Government House toward the AAD mob.

PAD is for the most part armed and paid by the royalist/military/Bangkok elite who wish to overthrow an elected government and install their own henchmen to continue looting the government. Anything else is just fluff to disguise their motives.

~WISteve

May I suggest you look at this post of mine AND ESPECIALLY the two pics included.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2193747

I'm sorry but the distance the mob traveled means nothing to me.

Neither group of armed thugs should be tolerated. They should be disbursed or if they refuse arrested.

If Samak must go, so be it. Let it be though the laws at hand and not by a violent mob.

No good will come to Thailand by installing a legislature appointed by the rich and influential.

~WISteve

I like dity politics and I like to play dirty.

If I were PAD, I would hire some trouble maker to dress in red and swing some big weapons around infront of the (foreign) camera-man. If I pro-govt, I would do the same, just switch the dress to yellow. It should only cost a few thousand baht per actor.

I am sure that both sides have already thought of that.

Luckily you are neither.

[kurtgruen]

Since when hasn't vote buying been a factor in Thai politics? Prosecute the offenders but don't resort to "mob" rule.

I think somewhere along the line, you missed what is going on...

The EC has ruled against the offenders. Now it is up to the supreme court, to agree with the EC's position, but, while we where waiting for a ruling against thePPP, the PPP wanted to change the Charter, so they would not be disolved as a party, if the rule came out against them. That is when the PAD had to step up protests.

Vote buying may have always been a factor, but under the new constitution, it is also illegal and if party officials get convicted of being involved in votebuying, the party will get disolved. Among other things, the PAD just wants to ensure, that justice will actually be served, before the PPP can move the goalposts.

[h90]

Since when hasn't vote buying been a factor in Thai politics? Prosecute the offenders but don't resort to "mob" rule.

I think somewhere along the line, you missed what is going on...

The EC has ruled against the offenders. Now it is up to the supreme court, to agree with the EC's position, but, while we where waiting for a ruling against thePPP, the PPP wanted to change the Charter, so they would not be disolved as a party, if the rule came out against them. That is when the PAD had to step up protests.

Vote buying may have always been a factor, but under the new constitution, it is also illegal and if party officials get convicted of being involved in votebuying, the party will get disolved. Among other things, the PAD just wants to ensure, that justice will actually be served, before the PPP can move the goalposts.

Maybe someone should make this posting sticky, or better together with an answer to "this democratic elected government"

[ubonjoe]

Six coalition parties to meet Wednesday to chart future

The six coalition parties will hold a meeting tomorrow to map out a future stand relating to the outcome of the judicial review on the prime minister's qualifications, Deputy Prime Minister Sanan Kachornprasart said on Tuesday.

Regardless of how the verdict will turn out, the coalition partners will review the political situation, Sanan said.

Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa has refused to neither confirm nor deny speculation that he is tipped to replace Samak.

The Nation

[ubonjoe]

Since when hasn't vote buying been a factor in Thai politics? Prosecute the offenders but don't resort to "mob" rule.

I think somewhere along the line, you missed what is going on...

The EC has ruled against the offenders. Now it is up to the supreme court, to agree with the EC's position, but, while we where waiting for a ruling against thePPP, the PPP wanted to change the Charter, so they would not be disolved as a party, if the rule came out against them. That is when the PAD had to step up protests.

Vote buying may have always been a factor, but under the new constitution, it is also illegal and if party officials get convicted of being involved in votebuying, the party will get disolved. Among other things, the PAD just wants to ensure, that justice will actually be served, before the PPP can move the goalposts.

Maybe someone should make this posting sticky, or better together with an answer to "this democratic elected government"

All this about changing the constitution. The change would most likely would not be retroactive. I don't think a change thats retroactive would make it out of parliment. So why all the fuss.

All thats been done is to suggest a change but nothing on paper that I have seen.

[h90]

Since when hasn't vote buying been a factor in Thai politics? Prosecute the offenders but don't resort to "mob" rule.

I think somewhere along the line, you missed what is going on...

The EC has ruled against the offenders. Now it is up to the supreme court, to agree with the EC's position, but, while we where waiting for a ruling against thePPP, the PPP wanted to change the Charter, so they would not be disolved as a party, if the rule came out against them. That is when the PAD had to step up protests.

Vote buying may have always been a factor, but under the new constitution, it is also illegal and if party officials get convicted of being involved in votebuying, the party will get disolved. Among other things, the PAD just wants to ensure, that justice will actually be served, before the PPP can move the goalposts.

Maybe someone should make this posting sticky, or better together with an answer to "this democratic elected government"

All this about changing the constitution. The change would most likely would not be retroactive. I don't think a change thats retroactive would make it out of parliment. So why all the fuss.

All thats been done is to suggest a change but nothing on paper that I have seen.

They told clear that these changes are necessary to prevent getting dissolved. They even told getting dissolved for vote buying is not "buddhist" so they need to change the constitution.

[ubonjoe]

Samak's Judgement Day

By The Nation online

Follow key developments of another suspenseful day in politics as they happen.

(Please refresh your page regularly for latest information)

3.15 pm: Where is Samak? Nobody knows. He was said to have boarded his flight back from Udon Thani after the mobile Cabinet meeting but as of now no-one can confirm where he has landed. Samak's close aides who answered reporters' phone calls would only say the prime minister is now in Bangkok. However, he is not expected to appear at the Constitution Court.

[kurtgruen]

The PPP didnt seem to pull off the big Udon we love samak mob and the promised 50 province event seems to have not happened. Money must be tight or is there something we are missing? It is not like feudal masters to promise they will do something and then not deliver. That looks really weak.

Where were the 50 000 DAAD members supposedly coming to Bangkok?

Every PPP-PTV-DAAD-TRT imitation of ASTV was and still is is a flop.

I think that actual government suppport is a lot lower, (even in the North), than most people think. NBT keeps broadcasting how evil the PAD is and how it wants to take away the rights of the People outside of Bangkok, yet, the PAD is still getting more actual support, as far as numbers (of demonstrators)are concerned, from these regions, than the PPP does.

Take away the vote buying and coertion, you might not have enough PPP supporters left to form a coalition government next time. In fact I believe, that if you stop vote buying by all sides, the PPP doesn't stand a chance, if they compete in the next election (under whatever new name they choose).

You should see all the brainwashing going on, on TV up here in the North. Most people dont have don't have Satelite, so they are all glued to the NBT Propaganda Channel, at news time.

So the PPP and Samak only getting a turnout of 1000 people (them and their mobile medical clinic), to me,it shows, that either the PPP is loosing support, or people just don't care anymore. (Many Thai People loose interest fast)

The Thaksin/Samak/PPP must be running out of money, too, because normally, they would pay almost that many to show up.

Now, as someone who reads this from overseas, you might call me sarcastic, but this is exactly how I see the situation

[Plus]

All this about changing the constitution. The change would most likely would not be retroactive. I don't think a change thats retroactive would make it out of parliment. So why all the fuss.

All thats been done is to suggest a change but nothing on paper that I have seen.

You haven't looked hard enough. Back in March-April there were detailed propositions of what would have been changed. Then they settled on parlamentary committee to study the issues in detail. Then Samak reaffirmed that he would change the article about punishing his party first.

Can it be applied retroactively? I don't know, doesn't hurt to try.

One thing is sure - the parliament is not bound by decency and common sense, they'd do whatever is necessary to save their skins, inlcuding applying the changes retroactively.

[koosdeboer]

Something to read for those interested. It's from the bangkokpost, today

SHADOW BOXING

The last whistle and PAD's 'Final Battle'

KORN CHATIKAVANIJ

Last time my column appeared was Tuesday, Aug 26, the day the People's Alliance for Democracy broke into NBT television station and Government House. I had written how it was time the gloves were taken off against the government. I wrote about how the government was ignoring normal rules of engagement and was in breach of all decency in the process of pursuing its self-serving goals.

I concluded that we needed to pursue all attempts to convict members of the government, their political party as well as the government itself. Unless we succeed in doing so, the ruling party and their co-conspirators would simply continue to abuse the majority vote given to them by the Thai public.

That same day the PAD decided in their different ways, to take the gloves off too, and it was eerie and disconcerting.

The change in PAD's strategy and identifying the real threat

Public reaction to the PAD was swift - an opinion poll that day showed 70% public disapproval of this course of action. I wasn't polled, but I would have agreed with the majority.

I was concerned. Let's be clear - I am a PAD sympathiser. I attended the very first Thammasat "seminar" organised by Sondhi Limthongkul back in 2005. I remembered thinking at the time that something special was happening, not because of what he said, but more because of the passion of the packed house responding to it.

I was right. I sporadically observed other meetings, first at Lumpini Park then at Makkhawan Rangsan Bridge.

As a Democrat Member of Parliament, there isn't much that is new in what is said on stage, but the growing momentum of the movement was obvious, boosted in early 2006, by the sale of Shin Corp by the Shinawatra family to Temasek Holdings of Singapore.

Although I had never once attended the PAD's second series after the general elections late last year, I retained reasons to remain a sympathiser of the movement.

No point shying away from the obvious - after all, it is a well-known fact that one of the PAD leaders, even if he is acting on an individual basis, is a Democrat MP.

Many other key speakers were our candidates in the recent general elections. Almost all of the tens of thousands of the attending public are Democrat voters. Most importantly, the PAD and their supporters make similar arguments with us that the government has lost its way and lost its legitimacy, given breach of both law and ethics. Recently, the government has also lost its authority.

It is remarkable and bitterly ironic how much damage the emergency decree has caused, relative to the protests that went before it. International perception, when they heard of the announcement, was swift: government bond yields jumped almost 50 basis points, the stock market collapsed - after having withstood even the increasing level of violence the week before. Foreign tourists cancelled their holidays, already disrupted earlier by the closure of Phuket airport.

Coming to terms with the new PAD, coming to terms with old politics

Did everything change as a result of the illicit acts? Not for me. Put simply, I do not have to agree with the action of the PAD leaders to remain in league with the democratic spirit of the bulk of the supporters. I disagree with those who say that the whole movement is undemocratic - even if some of their demands appear to be less democratic than what is the perceived wisdom.

Many observers say that it is undemocratic for a crowd to call for the resignation of an elected government. I find that to be absurd. It is true that a government should only be removed through parliamentary process, but not true that this implies the general public cannot voice their desire for a change in government.

I also believe that, like it or not, the Democrats could not on our own have resisted the PPP or the government from abusing their powers in the seven months of their rule. I think that without our parallel efforts, it is likely that the Constitution would by now have been amended and protection given to both Thaksin and PPP itself.

I believe the government would have approved 6,000 hugely expensive buses rather than the 4,000 they are trying to get away with.

I believe we would have lost future claim and current territory at the Phra Viharn temple.

The day after the Government House break-in was a strange one for me. I was saddened by the PAD decision to cross the legal line. Yet I understood it from the perspective of strategy. Like many school boys, I have always been interested in war strategies and the PAD, with Maj-Gen Chamlong as their strategist, certainly think in those terms. Their move on Government House fits what is called the "Death Ground" strategy - putting yourself in a situation where you have too much at stake to lose.

Of course, once they decided on a strategy, they moved at lightning speed - Blitzkreig; they kept their opponents on their heels, they shifted the battlefield and, most importantly, through all this, they compelled their opponents into making mistakes - the heavy-handed police reaction and, disastrously, the announcement of the emergency decree that was ignored by the army and highlighted the government's lack of authority.

The problem, of course, is that, in their thirst for victory, so much damage is being caused. Is this the only way? Is the PAD's victory a good thing for Thailand? Indeed, what defines "victory"? The PAD's goal-post seems to be constantly movable. Mr Sondhi might want to choose to quote Abe Lincoln next time he's asked what the PAD wants: "My policy is to have no policy."

My father, the Parliament and the future of Thai politics

But on that day, we had lost a peculiar vote in Parliament. The House was considering a bill on the National Counter Corruption Commission as required by the Constitution. It had already passed the first hearing (agreement in principle) as well as the second hearing (approval of draft) but then in the third hearing the bill was inexplicably toppled by the PPP (which had effectively written the agreed draft). This, in our view, was pure cynicism and was an attempt to undermine both the NCCC and the Constitution itself.

I wasn't in the House - I was taking my children to visit their grandfather, knowing it was going to be for the last time, as he was dying of cancer. My daughter and her niece played the piano for him and my brothers and I touched wine glasses in a toast with our dad one more time. We had our own Last Whistle.

At nine o'clock my thoughts turned to Parliament and the PAD, and I simply thought, screw the opinion polls, the people attending the rally don't deserve to be vilified as criminals and I decided to go visit them.

An emotional night became more so as I realised that my visit and its timing had touched a nerve. People were moved, as was I. I made it a point not to enter the grounds of Government House and certainly not onto the stage. In my mind I was clear: I was visiting the people, not the movement or its leaders. I see the people as heroes - pure in their beliefs, certain in their desire to see positive change in the country, and willing to be active citizens. Is this not the seed of true democracy? Call me a romantic - but if you're not, you shouldn't be in politics.

I do not have all the answers, but I do not think this brinkmanship is good for the country. However, a week after that night, my father passed away. One of the last things he said to me was: "Like them or not, the PAD is forcing change."

Many would dispute whether this "change" was positive. For me, it at least reflects the sentiment of a man from a generation that had seen Thai democracy from birth, with not much to show for it. My own grandfather fought against "the rebels" in 2475 (1932). He was in charge of the police and lost out against the conspirators, one of whom was Democrat Party founder, Kuang Aphaiyawongse. That time the rebels won, so they are not called rebels but are called democrats. My dad and his generation frankly never believed Thais were "ready" for democracy. I feel different, or at least I feel we have no viable alternative. The next few days and weeks will show whether we politicians can save it before, once again, we self-destruct.

Korn Chatikavanij is Shadow Finance Minister.

[Koo82]

If Khun Samak loses his PM position today because he cooked on tv, can this case go into the World Guinness?

[Plus]

3.15 pm: Where is Samak? Nobody knows. He was said to have boarded his flight back from Udon Thani after the mobile Cabinet meeting but as of now no-one can confirm where he has landed. Samak's close aides who answered reporters' phone calls would only say the prime minister is now in Bangkok. However, he is not expected to appear at the Constitution Court.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/09/hea...es_30082964.php

Edited September 9, 2008 by Plus

[sriracha john]

Samak's Judgement Day

By The Nation online

Follow key developments of another suspenseful day in politics as they happen.

(Please refresh your page regularly for latest information)

3.15 pm: Where is Samak? Nobody knows. He was said to have boarded his flight back from Udon Thani after the mobile Cabinet meeting but as of now no-one can confirm where he has landed. Samak's close aides who answered reporters' phone calls would only say the prime minister is now in Bangkok. However, he is not expected to appear at the Constitution Court.

follow the food odor trails...

[Plus]

Maybe he got stuck in the toilet again.

No one knows what the Court's reaction to no-show would be. Read the verdict in his absense? No likely. Maybe arrest warrant?

I think they'll reschedule.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Plus

[kurtgruen]

Samak's Judgement Day

By The Nation online

Follow key developments of another suspenseful day in politics as they happen.

(Please refresh your page regularly for latest information)

3.15 pm: Where is Samak? Nobody knows. He was said to have boarded his flight back from Udon Thani after the mobile Cabinet meeting but as of now no-one can confirm where he has landed. Samak's close aides who answered reporters' phone calls would only say the prime minister is now in Bangkok. However, he is not expected to appear at the Constitution Court.

follow the food odor trails...

Now that's funny...I love it ;-)

[Artisi]

Maybe he headed home for some fresh PJ's and toothbrush before heading to swampy to fly out to join the king of cowards in the UK

[Artisi]

The court is now reading the preliminaries of the case.

[Tony Clifton]

Maybe they are waiting for Samak to show up for the verdidct.

Seems he did not show up.

[kurtgruen]

Maybe he headed home for some fresh PJ's and toothbrush before heading to swampy to fly out to join the king of cowards in the UK

Or maybe he just went somewhere to pick up a suitcase full of money, as he didn't seem to have enough to pay for enough demonstrators in Udon?

[Artisi]

They didn't need a court jester today.

[WAERTH]

As stated in some media he is represented by his lawyer

Waerth

[kurtgruen]

One thing is for sure...I'm glad that my wife closed the restaurant a few months ago. Being a cook seems to be a very dangerous profession in Thailand ;-)

[kurtgruen]

They didn't need a court jester today.

LOL ROFL

[sjaak327]

I wonder if many people in that courtroom can keep a straight face, it really is a laughing matter.

You shall NOT cook

Edited September 9, 2008 by sjaak327

[hammered]

So any last minute predictions?

Is samak going down? (Hopefully not on me)

or is it acquittal time?

[kurtgruen]

So any last minute predictions?

Is samak going down? (Hopefully not on me)

or is it acquittal time?

I think he will be ordered to cook Somtam for everybody...if it's good, he gets to stay, if it's bad, he'll go in front of the firing squad.